Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Television/The Twilight Zone task force/Archive:1

Episode List Page
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Star_Trek:_The_Original_Series_episodes This episode list page blows TZ's out of the water. I think we need to update the format of the episode list page to make it more attractive and informational; add summaries, production # AND air #, and color code it... What do you think? Father McKenzie (talk) 02:44, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

I do like that format. Someone started a similar format with The Twilight Zone's 2002-2003 run on the episode list page. Personally, I think it should be expanded to all TZ episodes. Shinerunner (talk) 03:12, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Project scope
As I remember, there were several paperbacks published containing adaptations of stories from the series, as well as the infamous movie and a fairly long-running magazine with the same title. I think having a clearer "Scope" section more explicitly defining the project's scope, and whether it does or does not include any of the above, might not be a bad thing. John Carter 18:42, 21 June 2007 (UTC)


 * At this point, my only goal for the project is to make the episode pages consistent with each other as mentioned in the "Goal" section. If someone else thinks the scope should be larger, let's discuss it.Travisl 18:40, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Submitted for your perusal
There is a disparity from what I've observed between Twilight Zone episodes and standard television episode articles. I've made Time Enough at Last a testing ground for the standard TV template as I think it works much better, particularly in this case where I've nominated it to be a good article. Any input (and help on the article!) would be appreciated. Luatha 01:15, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
 * No complaints here, although I'd love to be rid of "In popular culture" and "trivia" sections forever. Could we make the "Themes", "Reception", and "Media" sections as subsections of an "Episode Notes" section, which would make it more in line with other TZ episodes (which, admittedly, don't have nearly as much info as Time Enough at Last)?  I love using the standard Television Episode template. Travisl 15:12, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Sounds like a plan. I definitely know what you mean about trivia sections. Luatha 02:46, 23 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Luatha brings up a valid point. Time Enough at Last is the only episode of the first season that uses Infobox television episode. I think we should standardize. We either need to have the infobox on all pages or on none. And TNTZ episodes use infoboxes but no side navigation for all episodes in the season. Because we have the "Detail" section using the template TTW episode details, it makes the infobox sort of redundant. I think we need to choose one or the other. ·  Tygrrr ·talk· 18:34, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Template for The New Twilight Zone
Please read my comment here on the template's talk page. What should we do about this? ·  Tygrrr ·talk· 18:25, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

No userbox??
Is there a userbox for the project? — Cinemaniac 19:40, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Nope, not yet, but is a decent one. Travisl 20:00, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Submitted for your approval


I had some time on my hands hope that these are all right.

Shinerunner (talk) 15:28, 27 January 2008 (UTC)


 * I have to say, these userboxes look great! I particularly like the one implementing the Rod Serling picture.  I had been thinking about coming up with a userbox for the Twilight Zone Wikiproject myself—something along the lines of "This user knows that it's a cookbook"—but your ideas look much better.  Props! :-) — Cinemaniac (talk  •  contribs) 20:01, 27 January 2008 (UTC)


 * I like all of them -- until some fair use bot comes through and (inappropriately?) deletes the image. I'm good with any of them. Travisl (talk) 20:04, 28 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Well, I checked policy and I had to remove the boxes with the non free images. Sorry about that Shinerunner (talk) 01:59, 29 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Yup. I figured. While my personal belief about what constitutes fair use would allow them (I'm an attorney), Wikipedia is rightfully more conservative. Once it's templatized, I'm sticking the one that's left on my userpage. Thanks for doing this! Travisl (talk) 15:40, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

I made the Userbox template. To use it type User:Shinerunner/Twilight with around it. If anyone finds other images that convey the theme of The Twilight Zone or different wording for a userbox, post it here or on my talk page and I'll see what I can do. Shinerunner (talk) 22:44, 29 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Aw, man! I really liked the one with the Rod Serling image! Oh, well. . . it'll do! Thanks! — Cinemaniac (talk  •  contribs) 22:57, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Images
The images need to be reviewed to make sure that they have proper fair use tags. We've lost a number of images and I've spot checked and found problems with some of the others. If possible, we should try to make these images compliant with Wikipedia policy or upload new images before we lose any more. Shinerunner (talk) 17:05, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Composers
In stumbling upon the page for Living_Doll_%28The_Twilight_Zone%29 just discovered that there is a TZ project, so I tried to add Bernard Herrmann's name to the infobox - without success. What should I do? kosboot (talk) 04:16, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
 * It looks like "Music" is an invalid flag for Template:Infobox Television episode. I don't see any music-related flags that exist in that template. Travisl (talk) 09:01, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Well, music does play an important role in many TZ episodes for which original scores were commissioned. If the TZ project really wants to do a good job, I feel they should include something about music in the template. -- kosboot (talk) 20:08, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I believe that the Wikiproject:Television recommended using a standard template for television episodes (the one currently used). Music or composers are only available in the television series infobox since most television series use the same music week to week. I think that the information about the music or composers could be added to the article under it's own heading. Shinerunner (talk) 20:19, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Show-specific projects and taskforces
I found this notice at the Wikiproject:Television site. Any thoughts?Shinerunner (talk) 22:10, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Does that mean, this WikiProject is doomed? GoodDay (talk) 22:22, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Membership Badge
Is there another TZ Badge, one can create for one's Page? The current one is too difficult to create (as I'm not a computer whiz). GoodDay (talk) 15:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Just copy and paste this to your page: Travisl (talk) 16:11, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Giggle giggle. GoodDay (talk) 16:21, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Episode Music
The episode infobox template has been updated. Music can now be included by adding the parameter | music =  to the infobox and then the music information. Shinerunner (talk) 15:44, 24 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Update- I've gone through and restored the music information to all episode infoboxes for the original series. There are some episodes I couldn't find the music information in the past versions of the articles. However, I put the required parameter in the infobox template so that the information can be added later.Shinerunner (talk) 11:10, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Section order
There's a problem in section order for many episode articles. The see also section goes before the references, not after the external links. See The Midnight Sun for an example of how it's wrong. Reywas92 Talk 16:37, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
 * In agreement, reorganization is required. GoodDay (talk) 16:47, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Articles flagged for cleanup
Currently, 238 articles are assigned to this project, of which 81, or 34.0%, are flagged for cleanup of some sort. (Data as of 2008-07-14.) Are you interested in finding out more? I am offering to generate cleanup to-do lists on a project or work group level. See User:B. Wolterding/Cleanup listings for details. More than 150 projects and work groups have already subscribed, and adding a subscription for yours is easy - just place the following template on your project page:



If you want to respond to this canned message, please do so at my user talk page; I'm not watching this page. --B. Wolterding (talk) 17:26, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Media franchises
Dear WikiProject The Twilight Zone participants...WikiProject Media franchises needs some help from other projects which are similar. Media franchises' scope deals primarily with the coordination of articles within the hundreds if not thousands of media franchises which exist. Sometimes a franchise might just need color coordination of the various templates used; it could mean creating an article for the franchise as a jump off point for the children of it; or the creation of a new templating system for media franchise articles. The project primarily focuses on multimedia franchises. It would be great if some of this project's participants would come over and help the project get back on solid footing. Also, if you know of similar projects which have not received this, let know. Please come and take a look at the project and see if you wish to lend a hand. You can sign up here if you wish. Thank you. LA @ 21:45, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Franchise naming convention discussion at WikiProject Media franchises
Dear WikiProject The Twilight Zone participants...WikiProject Media franchises is currently discussing a naming convention for franchise articles. Since this may affect one or more articles in your project, we would like to get the opinions of all related projects before implimenting any sweeping changes. Please come and help us decide. Thanks! LA (T) @ 23:05, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Episode list page
I've made some trial improvements to the list page by adding color to the season list tables for the original series. This is the same format used on the Star Trek and Family Guy episode list pages. If there aren't any objections, I would like to expand the format to the rest of the page. Shinerunner (talk) 01:42, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Episodes
I think you're going to run into trouble trying to write short articles on all individual episodes--wouldn't it be better to simply make the descriptions on the list into more than one sentence teasers--a paragraph would probably be right. ( And if the main list gets too long, the usual course isto divide by season.) Unless you can find published critical discussion of each-- in which case it should be added immediately as you make the article. I'll try to defend all reasonably possible fiction articles from getting deleted at afd, but I'll have trouble with some of these. Just my advice. DGG (talk) 19:57, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
 * IMHO, the definitive published source on each original series episode is Marc Scott Zicree's Twilight Zone Companion (ISBN 1879505096), but there are several others, including books titled Dimensions Behind the Twilight Zone: A Backstage Tribute to Television's Groundbreaking Series; the Twilight Zone Scripts of [insert writer here] series; The Twilight Zone: Unlocking the Door to a Television Classic; Into The Twilight Zone: The Rod Serling Programme Guide; and A Critical History of Television's the Twilight Zone, 1959-1964. Whether there's enough for the revival series' articles, I don't know, but for the original series, most – if not all – of the episodes have sufficient verifiable third party sources to merit their own articles. Travisl (talk) 20:02, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * OK, I may have committed a big faux pas here, and I should have known better. I got frustrated by not being able to follow the "next episode" links, so I created articles for all the episodes of the 2002/2003 series that didn't already have them. (I also standardized the ones that were already there -- added the episode template, tv.com and imdb external links, etc.) The ones I created are mostly stubs at this point. Tell me what you think, and if you think they should be deleted, then so be it.
 * And what makes an episode merit its own articles, anyway? I couldn't find clarification of that.
 * Thanks. --Auntof6 (talk) 09:22, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
 * The WP:EPISODE guideline provides clarification:


 * {| class="wikitable"


 * All articles on Wikipedia must meet notability guidelines.
 * All articles on Wikipedia must meet notability guidelines.

A topic is presumed to be notable if it has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject.

It is important to bear this in mind when creating articles, and it is likely that each individual episode of a television series will not be notable on its own, simply because there are not enough secondary sources available. Manual of Style (writing about fiction) explains further:

When an article is created, the subject's real-world notability should be established according to the general notability guideline by including independent reliable secondary sources — this will also ensure that there is enough source material for the article to be comprehensive and factually accurate.

While each episode on its own may not qualify for an article, it is quite likely that sources can be found to support a series or season page, where all the episodes in one season (or series) are presented on one page. (See examples listed below). Such pages must still be notable, and contain out-of-universe context, and not merely be a list of episode titles or cast and crew: Wikipedia is not a directory.

Over time, you might find that some episodes or story-arcs have enough real-world information to warrant their own article. Such an episode can be broken out into its own page.
 * }


 * Because there are sufficient significant reliable verifiable sources for each of the original series articles, each of those episodes have their own article. If you think that the new pages you created will go beyond stubs -- having similar sources as the original series -- then they should clearly stay. Even if not, this may also be an example of when it makes sense to break the rules, to keep consistent with the rest of the series' episodes. travisl (talk) 16:29, 13 April 2009 (UTC)


 * What unquestionably makes an episode worth its own article is extensive 3rd party critical commentary about it as an individual episode, and the model for that is the episodes of Star Treck. or I Love Lucy. or Monty Python, every one of which does have in fact such discussion. Twilight Zone comes fairly near, but not all of it is equally notable--the amount of available criticism seems to be growing, but it does not seem extensive. --50 years from now, they may all be studied in detail, as we now study even minor film from the 1920s.   Short of that, it really is better to do combination articles, and expand into individual articles only the ones where there is significant material from outside sources. A good deal of the material in the articles as present is formulaic: As i recall the first season, which was all I saw--my girlfriend at the time   liked it  --, the fixed framing was very much a part of the show's concept, as a time   when something special would happened--but I am not sure it is necessary to repeat this in article after article. I don't support individual articles in their own intrinsic right regardless of scanty contents, but in the hope that fuller contents can eventually be written; Meanwhile, we can have good solid combination articles--and defend them, against those who like a one line caption per episode is sufficient. Incidentally, as many of the shows are now used  for educational purposes, there should be discussions of that available.DGG (talk) 22:39, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Copyright
Hiya. Two Twilight Zone articles -- Walking Distance and the one before it -- have large chunks of context-less direct quotes: the opening and closing narration, and Walking Distance also has a large block quote from a review. These seem to be borderline copyright violations. Is this the style for other Twilight Zone episodes, or did I just stumble into two oddballs? --EEMIV (talk) 15:10, 23 April 2009 (UTC)


 * The opening and closing narrations, and the preview for next week's story, are the de facto style for TZ episode articles. As they amount for less than 5% of the total episode, and don't appear to impact the market for the original work, and because they serve to quickly and accurately describe the episode, I think it's fair use. As for the specific review in "Walking Distance", I don't know. travisl (talk) 22:08, 24 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Although impact/quantity of copyrighted material is one aspect, it is hardly the sole one. For Wikipedia, the make/break point is whether the copyrighted content is the subject of criticism/commentary. In this instance of the Twilight Zone articles, however, the quotes are sitting in isolation with zero commentary whatsoever. It's the equivalent of copy-and-pasting a book's dustjacket description in lieu of a plot summary, which certainly is a blatant copyright violation. --EEMIV (talk) 22:57, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Source for episode commentary and production
There is a source that can be creation and conception and reception of specific episodes. The Twilight Zone Companion (Marc Scott Zicree, December 1982, Bantam Books) is a good one. WhisperToMe (talk) 21:23, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

Extensive quotations
The inclusion of extensive quotations, which are forbidden by non-free content policy and guideline, in these episodes is under discussion at Wikipedia talk:Copyright problems. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 15:02, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the heads up. I hadn't seen this post until this afternoon. Discussing it now. travisl (talk) 19:29, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

Vandals?
I'm not sure if it's someone here, but all the episodes have been cleaned up in some details. You should really check this. If I'm wrong, sorry. (Also, I'm a newbie) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.13.190.62 (talk) 05:35, 21 November 2010 (UTC)