Wikipedia talk:WikiProject The KLF/Archive 1

Discussion about the List of current and proposed KLF-related articles
I've just created the above list, please post your comments here. Also, please discuss any changes (removing articles or creating new ones not listed) here. Let's give the KLF the Wikipedia presence they deserve! --kingboyk 18:55, 23 February 2006 (UTC)


 * First part of the job done. I've categorised the existing articles, propogated the new KLF talk page template, done some cleaning and a lot of wikilinking. Next step for me is to work some more on the main article, The KLF, and to overhaul KLF discography. Help and comments are most welcome. Or, click one of the redlinks above and start a new stub! --kingboyk 01:12, 28 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Doctorin' the Tardis. A number one hit single from the early days of sampling, so has a good claim to notability. However, The KLF main article might suffer if Doctorin' was spun out into a new article. So, Doctorin' the Tardis as an article or just a redirect to The KLF? --kingboyk 00:35, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm not hugely up for shrinking The KLF article, but at the moment Doctorin' the Tardis is described in more detail than any other song on The KLF page. I think some of it would better belong in an article on the single, but we'd have to be sure that all the important context, evolution of the band etc. was retained where it currently is. --Vinoir 10:26, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that would date from when I merged the Timelords article in. I definitely agree with you that we don't want to chop the main article too much, but I think there's enough to say about Doctorin' for it to standalone? Maybe we could cut and paste from "Drummond and Cauty claimed the car spoke to them" to "we also enjoyed celebrating the trashier side of pop", and copy and paste the rest? Hmm... Not sure. --kingboyk 14:25, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I think The Timelords section should contain mention of the 'house tune' plan for Doctorin' The Tardis, as well as the song article elaborating on it. Well, we can give it a try, to see how it looks...and we can always restore the previous version, if it ain't lookin' good. --Vinoir 14:38, 6 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Scott Piering definitely deserves his own article. He did a lot more than just KLF as well. - Drstuey 00:05, 10 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Given that What Time Is Love? now covers 3 singles complete with images, it might "overload" the infobox somewhat to include the album as well. Should we make The "What Time Is Love?" Story into an article? --kingboyk 17:13, 5 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Funny, I was going to ask the same thing today! :-) All in all I think I'd be up for having a section on the album within "What Time Is Love?".  Here's some thoughts...


 * Although a separate article would be temptingly neat, The "What Time Is Love?" Story (WTILS) is concerned solely with one song, for which we have an article. But incorporating WTILS into the song article definitely has its problems: the overloading is tricky (we'd need an album infobox as well as the existing one) - we could remove images, possibly "America" and, if necessary, "Trancentral". And a track listing for WTILS would interrupt the flow of the article unless the whole WTILS section came last in the article, which doesn't fit with the chronology.  Related questions:
 * How much is there to write about WTILS?
 * Is "What Time Is Love?" already overly long?
 * Are images of the three singles 'justified'? (I think so personally)  --Vinoir 10:19, 6 April 2006 (UTC)


 * My problem is that we won't be able to have an infobox for the album, and the album chronology gets broken. On the other hand, there's very little to write about the WTIL? Story. "It was an album of WTIL remixes and supposed covers, although speculation continues that the entire album was the work of The KLF". There! Perhaps we could see how it looks within the WTIL? article; it's no big deal to split it out later and repair a few links. Your questions: 1) very little 2) no, not at all! 3) yes, imho --kingboyk 15:17, 6 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I'll investigate how it looks. As for the speculation, I looked up one of those supposed cover acts on Google (I think it was "Neon") and found a substantial discography.  Curious! --Vinoir 15:36, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
 * In fact it's "Liaisons D.", wanted to call themselves "Liaisons Dangereux" or something but the name was already taken. They released quite a few things. --Vinoir 15:55, 6 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Liasons D, . By golly, he's right. I've never looked into it before. Includes Frank De Wulf. --kingboyk 16:10, 6 April 2006 (UTC)


 * KLF films. Maybe one article to cover all of them? The KLF films. Better than 3 probable stubs I think? (Note: I've never seen Waiting although of course I have the excellent soundtrack). --kingboyk 16:25, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Aye, one article sounds sensible to me, but really I'm pretty ignorant in this regard - I haven't seen any of them! I have absolutely no idea why I never bought Waiting or Stadium House, copies of which sat unwanted on the shelves of my local independent record shop for years. --Vinoir 19:58, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Miomir Grujic aka Fleka aka DJ Fleka. Not really a KLF article, but his obituary at makes interesting reading. He's obviously notable if he got an obit in a UK national. Unfortunately I couldn't find a Serbian noticeboard to ask for an article at. Could list it at "requested articles" or we could just create a stub ourselves. Thoughts? --kingboyk 15:16, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Chit Chat
Good work so far, my dear friend. I was a big fan of The KLF, and because they touched many different areas, with a varied and eclectic career, it is easy to see why the Wikipedia entries are fragmented. My view is that The Timelords persona is just part of the whole KLF picture, and should be contained within one body of work. Redirect to The KLF, say I. But, I am not sure how much I can personally contribute, but will do what I can, and await developments with great interest. Incidentally, I actually met and spoke to Bill Drummond in a prison - don't ask - it's a long story !

Best wishes - and good luck.

Derek R Bullamore 23:58, 3 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Oh come off it man, you know I must ask. Pray tell! :)


 * As you can see, I've already merged The Timelords into The KLF, and created The KLF discography. What's really missing apart from cleaning and improving is articles on some of the albums and notable songs. Thanks for the feedback - I was beginning to think I was talking to myself! --kingboyk 00:07, 4 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I see you are in both Staffordshire and Worcestershire, according to your home page. What do you do, straddle the border daily ?!  Anyhow, I digress.  Whether this is the correct forum for discussing how I came to meet Bill Drummond in 'the nick' is debatable.  The fact is I worked in HMP Hull in 1995 as an adult education tutor.  One of my colleagues, was a trippy hippy female, who surprisingly I got on with really well.  I do not know or recall how, but she had contacts with Bill Drummond, and invited him to talk to our 'bad boys' - the Category A prisoners, about burning the £1 million, and what it was all about.  It certainly made a change from the usual 'slopping out' pointless debates.   Through her, I made sure I got to speak to Bill, and mumbled pathetically, how much I admired his musical work.  To this day, I was not sure who was the more embarrassed !  That's a very truncated version of how we met under such bizarre circumstances, which will probably not help you at all in your Wiki work.


 * Keep in touch, before we both run out of colons !!!


 * Derek R Bullamore 01:20, 4 March 2006 (UTC)


 * No it's not the correct forum really, but it's mighty quiet round here. I'll take the reply to your talk page. --kingboyk 01:37, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

New Template
The KLF

--kingboyk 02:05, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
 * And all links are now blue! Wikipedia has no longer kicked out the JAMs ;) --kingboyk 16:31, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

The KLF's Universe on Wikipedia...
...is starting to look pretty corking, methinks. The KLF article itself is comprehensive, engaging and logical, and the discography article is very friendly; also, the decisions made on which releases merit articles are spot on. The one thing I think The KLF article could benefit from is a soupçon more context (for those not familiar) regarding the depth, ambiguity and continuity of their strange world. Possibly in the introduction. What do you reckon...?

Anyhow, I've fattened up the Stadium House Trilogy, and there's still a little bit to add without it becoming OTT. Including (as kingboyk rightly says in Talk:What Time Is Love?) adding a section on ''The "What Time Is Love?" Story'' to the What Time Is Love? article.

Future things I'm ready to tackle include Justified and Ancient, Doctorin' the Tardis and Shag Times. Unfortunately I don't know anything about Brilliant (band), and even less about Scott Piering.

Tomorrow's the day of the annual Gimpo-Does-the-M25, isn't it? Vinoir 23:15, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, if you think you can make the KLF article more reader friendly please go right ahead. It would be great to get it to featured status, and I'd agree that it's possibly a bit dry at the moment. Don't pad the introduction out too much however, as that should offer a nice lead in to the more detailed material which follows in the sections.


 * I started trawling through the Library of Mu website so that I could add quotations and citations, and that's something I mean to continue and which will be my focus rather than starting new articles, so if you turn a few more links blue I'll be very happy :)


 * I hope that was coherent, I'm very tired and off to bed. As for Gimpo's spin, I've no idea - has always seemed like a waste of petrol to me :P --kingboyk 23:31, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

The KLF in front page shocker! My goodness, we've made it to the front page :-) --kingboyk 18:23, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Do you think you could take a look at Who Killed the JAMs?. It really needs some beefing up. (And, if you haven't recently, have a listen to it too :-) Whereas I think of 1987 as crap but a fascinating period piece, I think WKTJ has aged quite well). --kingboyk 15:19, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Sure, it's on my To Do list in fact! Yeah, 1987 is messy. Good idea, I'll have a listen to WKTJ, it's been a while...! --Vinoir 15:36, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Brilliant!
Hey, it's looking good! Another red link falls, and it's a good article already. Another important stride towards the destination...

I'll be taking on Moody Boys after the weekend, as well as Doctorin' The Tardis. I can also see room for improvement in the mythology section of The KLF, talking about their motivations, their secrecy, the fictional JAMs parallels (things like self-referentialism, the pyramid blaster...). --Vinoir 18:16, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
 * That would be really cool, but have you noticed the dire state of the Bill Drummond article? Kingboy D deserves better than that! He's gotta be one of the most fascinating characters in British popular music post-punk but his page is really messy. (Which reminds me of one of my favourite quotes: "Greatest living Englishman", Bill Drummond (Melody Maker if I recall correctly)). By all means new blue links would be great, and getting The KLF to Featured Status would be fantastic, so... maybe just add it to your todo list eh? :) Thanks for the feedback on Brilliant (band), I'm rather pleased with it given that I neither know much about them or like the records of theirs that I've heard! --kingboyk 23:59, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

Discussion
I may have jumped the gun a little, but I've listed a selection of our best articles at Good articles/Nominations. Judging by the criteria and looking at some articles which have already been improved (for example Garbage (band)) I think some or all of them have a good shot and - if not - we'll at least get some feedback on what improvements need to be made. A win-win situation, then, I think (well unless we get totally shot down in flames of course!) --kingboyk 17:18, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Wow! That'll be very interesting. Good move. If KLF discography and Justified and Ancient don't cut it I'll be astonished. The KLF has to be good too, I'd've thought. Chill Out may need some digging around regarding the list of samples not acknowledged on the sleeve. Incidentally, I was watching the first episode of Mighty Boosh Series 1 the other day and was convinced I heard the same Tuvian throat singers excerpt.
 * I'll very imminently be taking full advantage of the UEA's 'journal search' facility, so hopefully some more refs will present themselves, we'll have to see... --Vinoir 18:23, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Isaac Bello can now be linked into articles because somebody started an article on his band Outlaw Posse. (I found it in Special:Whatlinkshere/The_KLF). --kingboyk 18:49, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I really am wondering if I've been too hasty and I think it might be demoralising to have all our articles rejected en masse. Would you read the criteria and assess our chances? If you think it's worst than 50/50 pull 'em. --kingboyk 18:21, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Don't worry. I did read the criteria...I'll have another look in a minute or two, but I think WTILS, 1987, The KLF, Justified & Ancient, WTIL and Discography all better than 50/50. Chill Out I'm not so sure about, but let's see...it shouldn't be too demoralising, should it? - we've got a bumper crop of articles blossoming here, I'm sure.  --Vinoir 00:14, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I've pulled Chill Out from the nominations: it seems a bit non-neutral in the introduction, and there's quite a bit of plumping up that can be done (for example reviews and comments). All the others seem worthy of their nominations to me. :-) --Vinoir 02:16, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
 * What about stability? We've been working on them quite a lot lately, I'd hate to see them get knocked back on a technicality like that. --kingboyk 02:24, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Hmmm, true. For some though (Justified, WTIL and WTILS) it's only been mild preening, and only a sensible page move for the disocgraphy.  Shit, I'm sorry if I've boo-booed by carrying on editing, fella.  Should we sit back and watch until it's over?  Or perhaps we should pull them and resubmit shortly.  I think sit and wait, but I will definitely bow to your better judgement in matters like this.  What do you think is best?
 * I've plumped up Chill Out by the way. There's a lot there, and the album is deemed an important one by the music press and the world of dance, but is it too big now?  --Vinoir 05:19, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I Believe in You (Kylie Minogue song) is a new "Good Article" nominee. I'm not sure our nomimated song articles up to the standard of that one. --kingboyk 22:55, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
 * It's pretty good, but I'm not sure how vital a chart trajectory can be. It would be good to know the performance of the songs in singles charts around the world, though.  The captures you're adding to the articles are really enhancing them, because they complement the prose nicely.  Are you extracting those yourself?  They're high quality.
 * I'll be back in the editing zone soon. --Vinoir 18:37, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, I've made the screencaps myself. I play the video files in PowerDVD and use the frame capture feature. I watch the entire vid looking for good frames, capture a few frames, and paste them in to Thumbs Plus for comparison/evaluation. Glad you like them! The difficulty I've had is with the low resolution of the source material - I was unable to get nice captures of the KLF and ENT as a band, or of Jimmy and Bill dressed as ice cream cones. --kingboyk 19:37, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

Just found your improvements to Bill Drummond - good work! :) --Vinoir 04:17, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I've been thinking: there's a massive queue at Good Articles review, so should I resubmit the discography and submit The KLF? The discography ought to pass now because I've fixed the complaint. --kingboyk 03:45, 26 April 2006 (UTC) Actually let's hold off on The KLF, it's not stable, and if we get a good peer review we might just go straight for FAC. Ithink the discog should get renominated though. --kingboyk 03:49, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I reckon we can go straight for FAC with The KLF. Soon, I should think.  I will mention Wanda in ==Personnel==, and try to sum up their musical styles (concisely) as an opening subsection of ==Themes==.  Their humour needs to be mentioned.  We should each have a sweep through, to make sure of things such as: (i) it's not opaquely British (I don't think it is, you've done well with that), (ii) it doesn't assume the reader is a fan, a music fan, or a muso (again, I think not),  (iii) the level of detail is proportionate (in general I think it is, although a point worth noting is that The KLF's most successful period gets summarised in two paragraphs). --Vinoir 14:55, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Agreed. We can get one of those "Americans" to have a look to check it's not too British. Maybe User:Lar would give it a scan. --kingboyk 15:05, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
 * 1991 could do with some beefing up, you're right. --kingboyk 15:07, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I thought it unfair to take and not give, so I've assessed Jello Biafra from the GA list. Unofrtunately I had to fail it, but they can easily fix my problems and I'll pass it if they do :) --kingboyk 09:22, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Personnel
Might it be worthwhile to list the personnel for each KLF album? (People and roles). I would have got to it and tried for one album but I don't have any CDs with me, and the sleeve scans at are too small to make out :( --kingboyk 22:54, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I can supply that info for all except 1987 and What Time Is Love? Story. :) --Vinoir 00:14, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
 * A couple of examples (note that the first one comes from Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_The_Beatles and not from personal interest, oh no!) - Autobiography_%28Ashlee_Simpson_album%29, Introducing..._The_Beatles. Yay or nay? --kingboyk 00:18, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I reckon "Yay", good idea. --Vinoir 05:20, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

The KLF films
Heads up! The KLF films has now been created (it ain't pretty!). Head for Talk:The KLF films to discuss strategy. --kingboyk 01:55, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Singles chronology
Are we happy with articles for only the songs we a;ready have documented? Or should we document all the singles? (Not a rhetorical question). --kingboyk 07:40, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm glad a singles chronology has appeared, that's very nice. Fuck it, let's document all the singles listed in the discography.  --Vinoir 07:51, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Let me think about it. I think we should preserve the aggregate pages for 3a.m., WTIL etc., which would break the chronology somewhat?? We already have the makings of an article on All You Need Is Love I think, as The JAMs' debut single I don't mind that being split out for a kickoff, as long as it doesn't detract from 1987 too much (sorry if not making much sense, been up all night!) --kingboyk 08:04, 18 April 2006 (UTC) P.S. Let's fix what we have first?? Splitting articles out and creating new song articles will be mostly copy/cut and paste now, quite easy. --kingboyk 08:07, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Complete Chronology
--kingboyk 19:35, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
 * 1) All You Need Is Love
 * 2) Whitney Joins The J.A.Ms
 * 1987 (The JAMS 45 Edits)
 * Disco 2000: I Gotta CD
 * 1) Down Town
 * 2) Burn The Bastards
 * Disco 2000: One Love Nation (Note:	Strongly based on The JAMS' "The Candystore")
 * 1) Doctorin' the Tardis
 * 2) What Time Is Love? (Pure Trance Original)
 * Disco 2000: Uptight (Everything's Alright)
 * 1) 3 a.m. Eternal (Pure Trance Original)
 * 2) Kylie Said To Jason
 * 3) Last Train To Trancentral (Pure Trance Original)
 * 4) What Time Is Love? (Live at Trancentral)
 * 5) It's Grim Up North (original club mix)
 * 6) 3 a.m. Eternal (live at the s.s.l.)
 * 7) Last Train To Trancentral (live from the lost continent)
 * 8) America: What Time Is Love?
 * 9) It's Grim Up North
 * 10) Justified and Ancient (stand by the jams)
 * 11) The KLF with Extreme Noise Terror: 3 a.m. Eternal
 * 12) K. Cera Cera
 * 13) Fuck The Millennium


 * I'm convinced "All You Need Is Love" deserves an article. "Whitney" and "Down Town" were non-album singles, and could therefore merit articles. I think "Kylie Said To Jason" is more usefully contextualised in The White Room (film) (to which our Discography KSTJ link could then point).  All the Disco 2000 releases surely belong in that band's article.  "1987: The Edits" is nicely placed in the 1987 article.  I regard Bastards/Beat as one concept, similar to, say, the two versions of Pure Trance 3 a.m. Eternal (KLF 005T/005R).  I don't know whether Bastards/Beat is notable enough to have an article - it would be perhaps more fitting in WKTJ? or Shag Times.  "Fuck The Millenium" got to mid-20's in the UK chart, and there's a nice quote or two in Library of Mu regarding it being an anti-climax, including Drummond saying that this was intentional, so I can see a case for an article there.


 * Anyway, I'm in no rush whatsoever to decide these things. It'll be no trouble to get them looking good once we make the decision.  --Vinoir 20:16, 19 April 2006 (UTC)


 * All You Need Is Love could have a quite nice article by copying/cutting/pasting what we already have, with two ommissions - quotations from some reviews, and a sample of the original version. Oh, and some commentary on the changes made for the album version? I have no objection to it being so documented, as long as The KLF and 1987 (album) don't suffer too much. I might even give it a try myself. (If you beat me to it: please include the origin of source material in the edit summary, and if the author(s) are easily identifiable - by username I mean - list them).


 * You've sold me on FTM, not least because 2K don't have a standalone article or much of a mention in The KLF. Technically it's another version of WTIL?, but with the new name and the Acid Brass involvement, standalone would be good.


 * I think my narrative on Whitney works well within the JAMs section of the KLF article, so really the same comments apply as for All You Need... Indeed, it looks like we could have articles on all of em (apart from maybe K Cera Cera, which is a redirect)... the problem, though, is that still doesn't totally solve the singles chronology issue. We might have to look at substing the template and adding some extra lines, for those articles which cover more than one release. --kingboyk 13:44, 24 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Should the Disco 2000 singles be in the KLF chronology? I guess yes if they were basically The KLF + 2, which I think they were but I don't know for sure! --kingboyk 11:14, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I guess so. What makes you think Bill was involved? --Vinoir 16:44, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
 * His vocals are on at least one of the singles... I did write somewhere which one (maybe in an edit summary). He speaks some lines (such as "drop the bomb", 100% certain) and I'm pretty sure he's in the backing vocals too. --kingboyk 20:08, 20 April 2006 (UTC)


 * An extra template, "singles chronology", at the bottom of single articles, above The KLF template, would solve the infobox chronology problem of the "What Time Is Love?", "3 a.m." and "Last Train" articles. What do you think? --Vinoir 04:19, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Hmm... you mean a complete list? Possible, but might be a bit big and unweildy. Or do you have something else in mind? --kingboyk 04:30, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah. There it is: Template:The KLF singles.  Not sure I'm that taken with the layout, as it is.  And it's big.  Actually, even if it were used, I've just realised it should be at Template:KLF singles.  Oops.  --Vinoir 05:04, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Userfied to User:Vinoir/The KLF singles. We can move it back if we need it. Not sure about the name, probably "The..." is correct but it doesn't really matter. --kingboyk 06:36, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure. Maybe we need some outside advice on this discussion - I could call in the editor who added the chronology field to the singles infobox (who IIRC is also the person who added the list of towns to It's Grim Up North so he's KLF-knowledgeable too). --kingboyk 06:27, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Good idea, that'll be very welcome. Actually, looking around the band templates category, a lot of the templates are very big compared to ours (such as Template:Red Hot Chili Peppers for one example), and incorporate the singles chronology.  Maybe that's the way for us to go: incorporate that new singles template into the old one, and list all the albums...? --Vinoir 11:42, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Many of them are too big, and I want to set a new standard: tough on fancruft, tough on the causes of fancruft! hehe. Seriously, some are seriously overboard and I don't want to go down that road. We have a comprehensive category tree for navigation. --kingboyk 12:08, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Well, I must say, I prefer the size of what we've currently got too. Clarity suffers through all the information carried some other band templates, if you ask me. And The KLF discography serves as a nice overall chronology, I think. I had a play around with "What Time Is Love?" not so long back, with three timelines, and it looked like this. It doesn't look too bad to me, given the alternatives. I couldn't work out how to remove the horizontal lines immediately underneath the "chronology" title though. --Vinoir 15:02, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Yikes, that's a bit full on too, isn't it! Maybe the singles chrono template is best in most cases after all? Anyway, I've had the editor I mentioned to stop by and give a comment. There are others I can call on if he doesn't show up in a day or 2. --kingboyk 15:13, 25 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Okay, I'm here. And I'll warn you up front that I'm really just a dabbler in all kinds of old electronic music rather than any kind of specialist... :)


 * I pushed for the multi-row chronology during the latest updates, so, er, I guess that's where I stand on that matter. I'm still rather fond of it, but bear in mind that there's not been much outside input other than from the four people who orchestrated the change.


 * My opinion on the current state of "completionist" series of single chronologies is that they seem rather unnecessary. I personally prefer the approach that you've taken much more, and it's how I intend to deal with some of my future projects as well. Actually, I would go as far to say that The KLF is not a subject that lends itself well to single chronologies, given the fact that there are just a few key songs in multiple versions. Plus, the advantage of having the singles chronology in the first place (linking all the pages by a string of continuous links) is somewhat broken by this approach, so honestly I would even consider leaving them out as they are now, since that's now an option with the standard infobox template.


 * However, this has got me thinking. I'm taking the generalized version of this discussion to multiple fronts, currently being centralized at Template talk:Infobox Single. (This is also where you can see my current attempts to set new world records in chronology stacking.) Maybe some new guidelines are in order. –Unint 21:55, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I think omitting the chronology altogether might be best. I can spin out All You Need Is Love into a new article, and we can leave the others as redirects for now? We have more important things to do (like cleaning up Drummond and Cauty's articles) before creating articles on minor releases like Down Town or KSTJ, I think? --kingboyk 06:12, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Agreed. It's a relief: I'm glad the chronology doesn't seem to be deemed essential.  --Vinoir 09:06, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Song samples
Just a brief addition (I'll be on editing duties later tonight. I'll also still be working out how to capture excerpts as OGG files). In the meantime, if you get a moment see what you think of the following list (so far) of excerpts:


 * What Time Is Love?: America(Uncensored) 6:10 - 6:42, LP version 2:19 - 2:51
 * 3 a.m. Eternal: Pure Trance Original 2:36 - 3:07, Live at the S.S.L 1:50 - 2:16
 * Last Train to Trancentral: Live from the Lost Continent (Extended) 0:35 - 1:08
 * Justified and Ancient: Hey Hey... 3:09 - 3:38, Stand by The JAMs Extended 1:52 - 2:26


 * 1987: What the Fuck Is Going On?: Don't Take Five 3:04 - 3:34, Me Ru Con 0:33 - 1:06
 * Chill Out: Madgrugada Eterna 5:37 - 6:13
 * The White Room: 3 a.m. Eternal (Live at the S.S.L) 1:50 - 2:16, Build a Fire 1:06 - 1:34

We need to somehow capture the essence of the songs/albums represented in 30 seconds. I think the above manages this, although we can't really get the LTTT strings in, and Chill Out might need something additional with a beat.

I have only vinyl copies of WKTJ, WTIL (Pure Trance) and Doctorin' the Tardis to hand (I have all these on CD but can't find them for the life of me at the moment). I have the CD for It's Grim up North, and haven't found a suitable snippet yet.

Regarding the separate singles articles for Whitney etc., let's hold on for a little bit and think whether or not they definitely merit their own space. My feeling is that some Whitney and Down Town comments currently in The KLF article belong in Shag Times, and All You Need Is Love (The KLF single) merits its own article. --Vinoir 18:44, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Don't you have all this stuff as MP3? If you don't, it might be a bit unfair asking you to do it!


 * Later on I plan to put together a complete singles chronology (venue: this talk page), including any releases I excluded from the discography. It might help in deciding about singles articles. Agree with you abt the JAMs songs, but let's not rush into it - and if we do copy some material let's not lose too much from the KLF article as the narrative is currently pretty good. --kingboyk 19:13, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
 * My MP3 acquisitions have tended to be things I haven't got on vinyl. I've got everything we need on either MP3 or AAC (easily convertible to MP3)...except I can't find "History of The JAMs" and "Doctorin'" - I'm sure they'll turn up (they'd better do!). --Vinoir 23:33, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
 * There is now a "KLF music samples" category to match the "KLF images" category.