Wikipedia talk:WikiProject The Simpsons/Archive 1

Episode Airdates
This project doesn't seem that active, but I'll ask here anyway.

Recently people have been adding episode airdates from other countries- Simpsons Christmas Stories and We're on the Road to D'ohwhere have UK airdates, and Bonfire of the Manatees has an Australian airdate. I haven't found any others, though.

Should the episode articles contain US airdates only, or should they all have airdates from other countries? IMDb has a complete listing of all UK Simpsons airdates from mid-1995 onward (and several from 1993-4) added by myself, but finding ones for other countries may be tricky. Plus, what if people start adding French, Spanish, Outer Mongolian airdates - do we allow them, or just ones for English-speaking countries? BillyH 17:30, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Any thoughts on this yet? It's starting to get a bit out of hand now - people are adding multiple airdates for single episodes (The Call of the Simpsons now has four US dates). BillyH 07:33, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I believe that airdates should be listed as original air date, hence US airdate... you can check TV.com or SNPP.com if you have any question as to the proper date... - Adolphus79 10:48, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I deleted all the air dates. Wikipedia is not a TV guide. In Denmark where I live they show six episodes every day. It is just not practical and also unencyclopaedic to mention every single air date for every country in the world. --Maitch 19:05, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
 * well, I understand that, but could we at least keep the original US airdate? - Adolphus79 21:03, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't follow. In those three articles are the original US airdates mentioned both in the lead and in the infobox. --Maitch 21:14, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
 * yes, it appears those are the original US airdates... and if they are in the infobox, they don't need to be in the text... I was just saying that instead of a long list of airdates, or no airdate at all, we should only have the original US airdate in the infobox for each episode... - Adolphus79 21:36, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, if you want to, you could add this to WikiProject The Simpsons/Style guide, but the lead is getting really short without this and the lead is a summary of the whole article, so it is okay to repeat information. --Maitch 21:42, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Ok, if we're just going to have the original US date then that's fine with me. There are still episodes with multiple airdates listed, though (the first, maybe, but we shouldn't have the second/third/fourth). Perhaps if it was, say, the first episode ever aired in a certain country (The Call of the Simpsons, There's No Disgrace Like Home) or it was specially notable in that country for breaking ratings records or something (Homer Simpson, This Is Your Wife) then that country's original airdate should be there, but either in the lead or Trivia section, not a seperate section. BillyH 23:00, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia doesn't need a Wikiproject
Wikipedia doesn't need a Wikiproject for The Simpsons - it has thousands of articles already, and although I'm a massive fan, what's the point? We can live with a few minor edits here and there. What we do not need is a thorough description of the two hairs on Homer Simpson's head, or a list of things Marge Simpson has put in her hair, and although there's always something to do, there's nothing particularly important enough to require a WikiProject, is there? ☺ -- The pathetic AP  clark   Be nice not nasty  17:24, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

New project... ?
OK... there's a lot of discussion going on on several character pages, and several lists, about the cleanup needed around here... it seems that a ton of information was added, but now we need to organize all that information... also, if we can make sure to relay all the information back here to the project, we can make sure that we all know what's going on...

here's what I propose:

A:) Remind people on the Simpsons talk pages about this WikiProject... There are several editors I see, that are contributing a lot to the Simpsons articles, that aren't here... we need all the Simpsons geeks in on this... if you see someone working on a page, or talking on a talk page, tell them to come here to the project... this being the Simpsons WikiProject means we are the ones responsible for all the simpsons information on Wikipedia... let's get it all organized and get the Simpsons featured!!!

B:) Sort out the one time Vs. recurring lists... there are a number of recurring characters listed on the one time list, and alot of people missing from both lists... if the character was only ever used on one episode, they go on the one-time list... we also merge all of the one time characters that have their own page into the list... those people do not need their own page, they were only in one page... we're already talking about merging Ling with Patty & Selma... if we can get serious about this, we can even break it down by season, or even episode, if we can get all the Simpsons geeks in on this...

C:) Recurring characters... if a character has been on more than one episode (not just several times in one episode), they go on the recurring list... I figure we can dole out individual pages from here as needed... obviously, the more the person is on, the more we know, and the larger their page is... if they have their own page already, merge any information one the list to their page, and their entry on the list is simply a link to the page... also, we could clean up and merge as neccesary the 'List of simpsons characters'... this page is simply redundant...

D:) Blood relatives of the nuclear family... any character that is actually related by blood to Marge or Homer (or Bart, Lisa, & Maggie)goes on this list... this will cut down on the number of characters listed on the one time and recurring lists...

E:) Family pages... I'd love to see family pages cleaned up... again, we could merge off characters off of the one-time and recurring lists, which helps clean them up... if each of the family has their own page, then the family page just needs to be an intro paragraph, links to each of the family members, then a list of the one-times under that...

F:) Fictional characters list, LGBT list, animals list... I think the LGBT is simply redundant, maybe a category for LBGT characters that have their own pages, and a note on the recurring/family/one-time listings... fictional is simply confusing, there are fictional characters within the simpsons universe, as well as fictional characters from within our universe... maybe just some cleanup... animals list looks fine, but then we need to merge any animals or pets from the other lists to this list...

G:) Episode listing... I really haven't checked this out yet... I use TV.com for my episode to episode info... if someone knows of any cleanup or work needed, please feel free to comment... also, what is the 'list of episodes by theme'? isn't that slightly redundant sitting next to 'list of simpsons episodes'?

OK... so I started to rant, sorry...

Let's work together to make Wikipedia THE Simpsons database online... if anyone else has any ideas, or comments, please contribute... that's the point of the WikiProject... also, who is the leader of the WikiProject? I apologize if I stepped on any toes, just adding my cheap 2 cents... - Adolphus79 04:36, 22 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, good luck with cleaning up the lists. If it doesn't get done the lists will probably be nominated for AFD soon. I would advise you to use prettytables (see Template:Prettytable) for the lists. Especially in Chalkboard gag and Couch gag. --Maitch 21:41, 22 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I already did Chalkboard gag, and I'm currently working on Couch gag... - Adolphus79 21:47, 22 May 2006 (UTC)


 * But you didn't use prettytables for both of them, which would make it look better. --Maitch 21:57, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Lisa Simpson
Can someone add citations to this at the points indicated? Thanks. --Qu e ntin Smith 07:47, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
 * there are several episodes cited in the article... but feel free to search the episode database to add those citations if you want... - Adolphus79 08:05, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Hijacking the project...
Looking back at the history of this project, it seems to have been somewhat orphaned... I am willing to hijack it, and start working on the project, adding tasks, getting it all cleaned up, and hopefully getting some action in here... if anyone minds, reply to this within the next couple days... - Adolphus79 10:44, 22 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Hijack away. I signed myself up as a participant. I became interested in working with Simpson articles, because there were quite simply too much crap out there. This is why we need a WikiProject. There needs to be guidelines to character and episode articles. All the quotes should be transwikied to Wikiquote. Stubs should be merged into bigger articles. Some of the lists should be checked for copyvio, since I suspect a lot of copying from the Simpsons Archieve.
 * The first step is to make the project page more organised and then we can take it from there.
 * I mainly work on getting the main article The Simpsons up to FA standards - well, first I guess it has to be GA standards. There is a long road ahead of that project, so I will not be very active on the characters and episodes, but I will give my input whenever possible. This week I will be gone for vacation from tomorrow, so I will not answer any messages. --Maitch 13:18, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
 * that's ok, I'll be spread out all over the section myself, little trinkets of Simpsons knowledge here and there... so far I have been focusing on the lists, so that's good that someone is on board that's focusing on the main page... - Adolphus79 19:56, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
 * only a minor hijacking... but a good starting point... anyone else, feel free to add to those project lists if you've noticed anything else that needs work... - Adolphus79 21:32, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Of course...I'll do my part in this. :) --Kiyosuki 06:30, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Manuals of Style (character & episode)
I know there are listboxes for both... there's a good spot to start, make sure each article has one (probably already done)... As far as episodes go, maybe you could take a look at the episode listings on TV.com or SNPP.com and get an idea of their layouts... As for the characters, maybe take a look at the biographies of historical people here on wikipedia... - Adolphus79 23:22, 22 May 2006 (UTC)


 * We should set some standards so that the articles becomes somewhat encyclopaedic and not just a collection of random trivia and quotes from TV.com or SNPP.com. Here are some links, which could be used to set that standard.
 * User:BrianSmithson/Writing about fiction
 * Notability (fiction)
 * Centralized discussion/Television episodes
 * --Maitch 08:52, 23 May 2006 (UTC)


 * well per Centralized discussion/Television episodes, for the episodes, we should start with something along the lines of...
 * Production Info - episode #, prod #, airdates, etc.
 * Cast Info - writers, producers, voice cast, guest stars, etc.
 * Episode Summary - plot, storyline arcs (relavence to series as whole), running gags, etc.
 * Extra Stuff - trivia, quotes, goofs, etc.
 * the trivia and quotes needs to be kept short, and we need to make sure that the descriptions aren't just cut & paste jobs from another site... see WikiQuote section below... - Adolphus79


 * I think I will write a draft later in WikiProject The Simpsons/Style guide, which also is going to be based on the input from WikiProject Television episodes. It's easier to discuss when you got something written. --Maitch 10:27, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

WikiQuote
The quotes are definitely something to work on. Sometime soon I'm going to go over to Clancy's wiki and make a separate wikiquote page dedicated to his quotes. I think its a shame to lose some of these great quotes...so like what was done to Ralph, we should give them their own page. This is for two reasons...not just because it'd be a shame to lose these great quotes, but because as Ralph's page proved...people are always going to constantly add new quotes because they don't see their favorite quote there. What I did is I kept what are most likely Ralph's top 5 most famous quotes, and moved all the rest to his page on wikiquote. I also made a blurb to check wikiquote for "more of his many quotes" to remind people. The page still occasionally gets quote additions regardless of course...which are promptly deleted but this is Ralph we're talking about.... Regardless, In the end this sort of tactic may be the best thing to do with characters that have a lot of trivia or quotes. To redirect it and focus it rather than delete it...because I just see that as just throwing ourselves into a neverending loop that doesn't solve anything. Maybe even beyond that, this could be a better aproach than flat out deletion if at all possible.--Kiyosuki 07:29, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
 * If we could set up a WikiQuote page for each character, we could start pulling trivia off all of the WikiPedia pages, and just under the quotes section link to the WikiQuote project... I wonder if that would work per episode too? I haven't gotten to any of the other Wiki projects yet, just Wikipedia... - Adolphus79 08:27, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
 * If we read WP:NOT #2, we will see the following text:
 * "If you want to enter lists of quotations, put them into our sister project Wikiquote"
 * I think this project should also organise the pages at WikiQuote in order to move all the lists of quotes. Remember that the lists are not lost. We can still link to the Wikiquote pages like in Recurring jokes in The Simpsons. A page for each character is needed. --Maitch 21:12, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't see any reason why we shouldn't assume responsibility for WikiQuote: The Simpsons since we are WikiProject: The Simpsons... aren't we trying to organize all the Simpsons data across the whole Wikimedia family of websites? If some of the information here belongs on a Sister Project instead, we need to put it there...  I'm sure that will help more of The Simpsons to get closer to featured also, if all of our articles conform to Wikimedia's rules...
 * I haven't dealt with WikiQuotes yet, but if can we set up a category and main page, then have each article and / or major recurring characters have their own pages under that? If so, then we can start pulling all the quotes from each episode and character page and moving them to a matching page title on WikiQuote.  Maybe leave one or 2 of the best or most memorable on on each article here... then just a link to the matching WikiQuote page...
 * If anyone that knows WikiQuote would be up to this task, I'll add it to the Projects list right now... if I am wrong about how WikiQuote is setup, then please chrip in too... - Adolphus79 03:39, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I've asked the community over at WikiQuote how to structure the quotes. See Wikiquote:Wikiquote:Village pump. --Maitch 15:51, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I also gave a poke on the Simpsons talk page there... Wikiquote:Talk:The Simpsons - Adolphus79 02:59, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Okay, so far I would like to say to anybody participating in this project that they should not make pages for characters or single episodes on Wikiquote. It is against Wikiquote policy. --Maitch 18:15, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

portal?
who runs or updates the portal? it hasn't been updated for a while... - Adolphus79 02:45, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Wow we must be on the same frequency. I was just thinking that and came here to make a comment on it when I saw this. Well...anyways I'm a bit pressed for time but I'm slowly making my way around the characters sections...but we really should take a long look at the Simpsons' main page and the portal and maybe fix them up a bit. I'm...kind of intimidated by the Simpsons main wiki and perhaps it doesn't need that much done...but we're going to have to bite the bullet and eventually make a nick and tug here and there.
 * Ehhh...but in the mean time we really should update the portal, at least update the episode. I think its basically been abandoned...much like the project. Looks like its up to us.--Kiyosuki 07:25, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
 * So I assumed... I'm gonna try to finish up Couch gag tomorrow... I think I've gotten the project page off to a good start for now, at least until it's more than just the handful of us there are now... I wasn't sure if the portal itself was bot run, or admins, or just edited like any other page on Wiki... guess once I pull all the lists outta the hole I'll take a look at that... - Adolphus79 08:23, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Character Lists Overhaul
You are all free to change the table below, hen, add a comment below about your changes...


 * 1) List of characters from The Simpsons - straight laced listing, must have been seen, and had at least one line... short one line entry for each...
 * 2) Move Origins sections to List of The Simpsons name origins
 * 3) Simpson family - anyone related to Homer or Marge by blood (or marriage), and assorted Simpsons family pets...
 * 4) Simpson nuclear family & pets
 * 5) Simpsons relatives
 * 6) Bouviour relatives
 * 7) List of recurring characters from The Simpsons
 * 8) Simpsons Family - one or 2 sentences, "main family of the show, blah...", link to Simpson family
 * 9) Other Families - Each family gets a short paragraph, and a link to a family page (See Wiggum family)
 * 10) SNPP - SNPP itself gets a short paragraph, and a link to it's article, then recurring characters associated with SNPP
 * 11) Springfield Elementary School - short paragraph, link, recurring characters associated with the school
 * 12) Government, Law Enforcement, Medicine
 * 13) Criminals - recurring characters whom their primary attribute is crime...
 * 14) Business Owners
 * 15) Moe's recurring customers not from SNPP would be listed under Moe (Moe's regulars)...
 * 16) Media Personalities
 * 17) Other
 * 18) List of one-time characters from The Simpsons
 * 19) Primary characters - One-time characters that were the main focus of one episode
 * 20) Secondary characters - They had an entire scene, or several appearances in one episode
 * 21) Minor characters - Only ever seen once, in one episode, but we did at least see them (and they had one line)...
 * 22) Episode needs to be cited on each entry
 * 23) List of real-world celebrities appearing on The Simpsons
 * 24) Merge with List of Guest Stars on The Simpsons
 * 25) Very simple alphabetical list of voice actors that appeared as himself/herself & episode citation

If they are listed on one of the higher priority lists, then all they need on a lower list is name & link (except celebs appearing as themselves)... anyone that was a one-time does not deserve their own article, other than that, if we know enough about someone to make a full article on them (a good 4 paragraphs, infobox with picture, etc.) then they can get their own article. If they have their own article, than any lists they are on simply need name & link... I figure if we can get these lists under control, we can figure out who does and doesn't need an article... Am I missing anything? - Adolphus79 06:15, 29 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Here are my thoughts on some of the lists:
 * List of characters from The Simpsons - should be an overview article. All characters should only be described with a sentence or two with a link to a longer description. It should be structured better than now. Tables would probably do the trick. It is a good idea to move the origins to a new article. That would also make it easier to link to from the main article.
 * List of The Simpsons relatives - how is this different from Simpson family?
 * List of recurring characters from The Simpsons. I think it is okay right now. No need to add descriptions of the main family.
 * List of one-time characters from The Simpsons - should be limited to characters that has speaking parts and has a name. Also the episode the character appeared in should be provided. If the character has been in two episodes it should be moved to List of recurring characters from The Simpsons no matter what. --Maitch 15:28, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
 * changed it a little... feel free to merge your changes into the list... maybe after we get this taken care of, we can re-work the main article some... - Adolphus79 02:18, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Could you please correct the link for List of real-world celebrities appearing on The Simpsons, because I can't seem to find the article. --Maitch 17:07, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
 * List of Guest Stars on The Simpsons is all we have right now... - Adolphus79 17:34, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
 * What should we do with List of celebrities who have been parodied on The Simpsons? --Maitch 17:49, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I was just looking at that and the 'fictional characters within' lists... they could probably get cleaned up once we got the character lists under control... - Adolphus79 17:55, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, let's leave the guest stars out of this, so it will be a little bit easier.
 * Dividing all the characters into recurring and one-time is a nice and clean way to do it, but then we have List of animals in The Simpsons, List of fictional characters within The Simpsons and LGBT characters on The Simpsons that cuts into this organisation. The question is where we should have the main information. Some of the list should only link to the main information, but which ones? --Maitch 18:24, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
 * well, I would assume that the animals list would become all but redundant after we've made each family's page... I think blinky would be the only animal left, and he has his own article already, we could just list him on SNPP's article as an 'offspring'...
 * then, we make 'LGBT', 'fictional characters within' and 'celebrities parodied' just very basic "name, cite, & link" lists... the 'fictional characters within' and 'celebrities parodied' lists are just a mess, someone needs to sit down and decide exactly who belongs on there, and who doesn't... worst case scenario, 'fictional characters within' and 'celebs parodied' could just be merged into recurring/one-time...
 * I was proposing to rename 'guest stars' to 'real-world celebs', partially for naming convention, but also because they are still recurring or one time characters even if they played "himself"... make their entry on one of those two lists, then just make the celeb list a basic "name, cite, & link" list like LGBT...
 * maybe I'm missing something, but in my mis-wired brain, it makes sense... LOL - Adolphus79 01:58, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

LBGT List
I just noticed this went up for deletion, maybe instead of deleteing, we move it to List of LGBT characters on The Simpsons, and treat it as a basic list, shave it down and treat it like the celeb or one-time list... I'm sure the LGBT supporters won't let us simply delete it, and it's not like it's hurting anything... - Adolphus79 03:27, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
 * name - episode cite - one sentence (if needed)


 * Well, the article is in terrible shape and cuts into our recurring and one-time characters division scheme. There may be some ideas on what to do with on the AFD. If people wants to keep it, then it should be heavily edited. I have a back-up plan that doesn't involve turning it into yet another list. --Maitch 07:35, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
 * back-up plan? excellent... please do tell! - Adolphus79 02:04, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Since it already seems that the consensus has been reached in the AFD I might as well mention my idea. I want to create a direct subarticle to the section Themes in the article The Simpsons. This article should be named Themes in The Simpsons and merge the text from the main article, Politics in The Simpsons, Religion in The Simpsons and some of the content from the LGBT list. I would delete Elton John, Ian McKellen and the possible LGBT characters and maybe move some other text to character profiles somewhere else. --Maitch 11:55, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Celebrity lists
I just thought of something as I was cleaning up the one-time list a little... I think for the celebrities, we need to make List of voice actors from The Simpsons (unless it already exists), a basic per episode listing of guest voices and their character name... then make List of celebrities who have appeared on The Simpsons, for anyone that appeared as himself/herself... James Earl Jones was a guest voice actor, but he didn't appear as himself... Ron Howard, on the other hand, played himself (and died, ha-ha)... I think this will help stifle some of the confusion, as well as hopefully clear up the one-time & recurring lists a little more... - Adolphus79 05:26, 31 May 2006 (UTC)


 * We do have List of cast members of The Simpsons, which could be expanded to include guest stars. I think that List of celebrity cameos on The Simpsons is a better name. --Maitch 09:03, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
 * that works... - Adolphus79 09:08, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
 * We already have a List of guest stars on The Simpsons and it is extremely up-to date and one of the most complete English language lists on the Internet. ~Scorpion0422

List of neologisms on The Simpsons
ok... call me a Wiki-noob, but is there some way that we can split this down by letter or something? I'm not sure, but is that what List of neologisms on The Simpsons/A, etc. would be used for? and if that is the case, can we then just link that /A, etc. page as the link on the TOC at the top? - Adolphus79 08:12, 31 May 2006 (UTC)


 * No. That is a bad idea. The list should instead be trimmed for entries that are not neologisms. --Maitch 08:39, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
 * hmm... ok, well, we could start (once again) with the quotes... that would probably cut the size of that list in half... maybe just the one or 2 lines that the word is spoken, then clear out the rest... I'm gonna need some help with figuring out which entries to remove though... eh... I'll worry about that after I'm done with the character lists...
 * Also, I'm sure a couple of the entries could be moved to Products in The Simpsons... and I'm going to propose to move that to List of products in The Simpsons (per naming conventions) when I'm done typing this... - Adolphus79 01:36, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
 * products list has been moved... - Adolphus79 17:40, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

OK... check out Talk:List of neologisms on The Simpsons, I'm not going to copy the whole thing over here, but I have a couple suggestions for the list... - Adolphus79 17:40, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Greyhounds list
in the article for Two Dozen and One Greyhounds, there is a discussion of the See My Vest song. This is all well and good, but after the lyrics, the article contains a list of each of the animals listed and a theoretical discussion about the garments discussed in the song.

I particularly enjoy the section:
 * This is a curious entry in the wardrobe, since neither American Robins nor European Robins (two unrelated species) have very much in the way of red feathers; certainly not the colour of Burns' suits. An emormous number of birds would have had to contribute their breast feathers to make one single-breasted and one double-breasted jacket, making these possibly the most expensive garments in the world not to feature sequined precious stones.

Now, I looked and I see that all this content was moved here from an article on the song itself a little while ago; This is all well and good, but the information about the animals seems hardly noteworthy in an article about the episode. The song is a very small part of the episode, and the animals in the song have no particular bearing on the episode. Moreover, it is somewhat pointless to discuss the animals and garments as if the Simpsons is supposed to be realistic. Not only is this an episode of a cartoon that in itself says 'cartoons don't have to be 100% realistic', but this is itself within a song - far more concerned with amusing rhymes than with realism. I would like to suggest that this list is silly, takes the song way too seriously, and needn't even exist in this article. TheHYPO 19:03, 16 June 2006 (UTC)


 * I think the song lyrics should stay, but the "animals" and "discrepincies" commentary can be removed... if nothing else, blame it on WP:POV or WP:NOR... - Adolphus79 19:11, 16 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Song lyrics are copyvio. See WikiProject Songs. --Maitch 19:26, 16 June 2006 (UTC)


 * I didn't actually have a problem with the lyrics, as the song itself is memorable and a notably memorable scene in the episode - it's just that it really doesn't need to be analyzed since it's not overly relevant to the plot (besides establishing the greyhound coat). But, Maitch is right about lyrics, now that he mentions it. I think I'm going to take out the animals now. It makes especially little sense with the lyrics gone. TheHYPO 20:18, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Prank Calls
I just noticed that there is a list both on Bart's page, and on Moe's... do we really need it in both places, or can one just link to the other? I personally think it should be on Moe's page (with Moe's Tavern), then just an entry on Bart's page of "prank calls to Moe's Tavern (see here)" or something... - Adolphus79 19:46, 16 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Maybe we should just link to Wikiquote:List of Simpsons Prank Calls. --Maitch 19:57, 16 June 2006 (UTC)


 * does a list of names qualify for Wikiquote? eh... shoulda clicked on the link first... yeah... looks good to me... - Adolphus79 20:16, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Key articles for Wikipedia 1.0
Hello! We at the Work via WikiProjects team for Wikipedia 1.0 would like you to identify the "key articles" from your project that should be included in offline releases of Wikipedia based on their importance, regardless of quality. We will use that information to assess which articles should be nominated for Version 1.0 (not yet open) and later versions. Hopefully it will also help you identify which articles are the most important for the project to work on. As well, please add to your Arts WikiProject article table any articles of quality articles|high quality]]. If you are interested in developing a worklist such as this one for your WikiProject, or having a bot generate a worklist automatically for you, please contact us. Please feel free to post your suggestions right here. Thanks! Walkerma 06:10, 17 June 2006 (UTC)


 * I believe that these are our key articles:
 * The Simpsons
 * Homer Simpson
 * Marge Simpson
 * Bart Simpson
 * Lisa Simpson
 * List of The Simpsons episodes
 * --Maitch 11:21, 17 June 2006 (UTC)


 * sounds good to me... the only ones I might add to this are D'oh (simply due to it's real world usage, and the fact that it is included in other printed dictionaries), and maybe the List of characters from The Simpsons depending on if we have enough time to clean it up... it would be nice to have a bot generate a worklist, and see if it's any different than our own current project list... - Adolphus79 13:17, 17 June 2006 (UTC)


 * I didn't include the List of characters from The Simpsons, because I'm still not sure what to with it. Anyway, if we use the new project banner, then we can get them to use the bot. --Maitch 17:05, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks a lot, a useful list. I see you are considering the bot, that's great! You just need create the relevant categories and I think you're ready to go. If you need any help, please contact us. Thanks, Walkerma 06:50, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Great- I've been away for 2 days, and now you have the bot working nicely for you. Let us know if you have any problems, Walkerma 02:33, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Project banner
I have created a banner for this project to be placed on the talk pages. Actually, I just stole it and changed the words to The Simpsons instead of gaming. I would like you all to comment on it before it is put to use. The template is called Template:SimpsonWikiProject and an example of use can be seen on Talk:Jimbo Jones. I had trouble finding a good image for it, because we are not allowed to have fair use images in templates. --Maitch 13:11, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
 * sweet! love it... I was just thinking about writing myself a new welcome template that had project spam in it for the new editors that are contributing to the Simpsons articles... - Adolphus79 13:17, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

So can I start tagging all our Simpsons articles with that now? - Adolphus79 23:04, 18 June 2006 (UTC)


 * I just created the missing categories, so we are good to go. It would be nice if you would also define the class and importance. I added some instructions on Template:SimpsonWikiProject. --Maitch 10:51, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
 * sorry, I looked at it from the other point of view... tag them all & sort them out later... besides, who am I to decide importance level? I'll just tag all the Simpsons talk pages right now, and we can figure out each of their importance when we can see what all we're dealing with... - Adolphus79 11:09, 19 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, I guess you can do it in whatever order you want to. --Maitch 11:19, 19 June 2006 (UTC)


 * ok, do templates and images get the banner also? or just the articles and lists? before I go tagging everything that has anything to do with the Simpsons... - Adolphus79 11:54, 19 June 2006 (UTC)


 * I think we should start with the articles and lists. Right now images and template doesn't fit in the categories and it might require some additional coding. It would also take quite a while to tag all of our 500 articles (my guess). --Maitch 12:11, 19 June 2006 (UTC)


 * hehe, ok... well I started with the character pages & lists, as that's what I have saved on my watchlist... I'll keep an eye out for character's whos talk pages are not tagged... should someone go thru and tag the episode articles? - Adolphus79 16:01, 19 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Don't worry. I can tag them all fast using AutoWikiBrowser. --Maitch 16:48, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

ok, first, I'm adding with it, for ease of use... secondly, is the Simspons banner doing weird stuff with the edit summary field and submit buttons, or is that just on my end? - Adolphus79 16:51, 19 June 2006 (UTC)


 * I have to do a second pass to add talkheader to avoid mistakes, so I probably won't add it. I have no problems with the banner in IE and Opera. What browser are you using and what page seems to be the problem. Another thing is that I've also tagged redirects, but I will deal with that later. --Maitch 17:07, 19 June 2006 (UTC)


 * I've finished my run with WP:AWB and I have now tagged every page that has been categorised except for those that doesn't have talk pages yet. --Maitch 17:53, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

All episodes done... - Adolphus79 01:37, 20 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Crew members and all the articles in the subcategories are done. --Maitch 21:35, 19 June 2006 (UTC)


 * ok... I think I just got every article in Category:The Simpsons... just bumped my watchlist from 100 to 700 in the process... LOL - Adolphus79 02:34, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

All epsodes have been tagged Mid importance... - Adolphus79 10:26, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Happy to Join
Hey all I am a huge fan of the simpsons and I read thats all you need to join this WikiProject so, Here I am!! :) Anything you want me to do just tell me :) Irisheagle 00:30, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

On Article Importance...
I decided to sit down and start sorting all of them articles... and was wondering, what are we using for importance ratings?

Here's what I think... I went through, and tagged what I thought were the Top importance articles... basically the Simpson nuclear family, and Matt's article... and a couple others that I thought were our 'front' pages... I am going to go thru and blanket tag all the episodes Mid, I suppose we could take a vote to get like our top 3 episodes, and tag them High... - Adolphus79 22:07, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Top - The Simpsons, articles linked from there, Matt, the Simpson nuclear family, The Movie, etc.
 * High - primary character lists, extended Simpsons/Bouviors, a few of the more important episodes, Tracey & Dan, etc.
 * Mid - all other episodes, secondary character articles, other cast articles, video games, comics, etc.
 * Low - um... everything else? (minor character articles, the off lists, chalkboard & couch gag, etc.)


 * Episode voting here

Krusty? Gags?
First question - what is the official spelling of Krusty the C/Klown? There are numerous examples of both all around wikipedia, and around the internet (I just changed one Clown in the main article to Klown for consistancy with the rest of the article). Snpp.com has transcripts and other materials which use both spellings. It appears that in the Ulman shorts it was Clown, and they changed it to Klown, but I'm not sure if they have been consistant on that...


 * I believe his stage name is "Krusty the Klown"... I could be wrong though, I am only basing that on the episodes that I can remember off the top of my head right now (one having KKK (Krusty's Comeback Special)), and the regualr usage of the K in everything he did... you may be right though, and the writers themselves may not use K or C consistantly...

Secondly, I think that perhaps the recurring jokes section/article might a bit undefined in terms of what that means. Is Homer strangling Bart a recurring joke? It's a recurring event, but is it a joke? What about the catch phrases... are they recurring jokes? the article on catch phrases has been redirected to wikiquote, but perhaps the info in recurring jokes could be moved to catch phrases with a wikiquote link in that article... TheHYPO 19:30, 18 June 2006 (UTC)


 * I think in the context of this show, any recurring event could be considered a gag or a joke... pretty much the whole show is a joke to begin with, so anyting recurring would be a recurring joke... - Adolphus79 20:36, 18 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Perhaps; but in that ideology, the list of that article could be so insanely huge, it would be less than funny. Bart insults Skinner, Skinner's incompetance annoys Chalmers, Ned annoys Lovejoy, Homer borrows stuff from Ned and doesn't return it, Ned never minds if people trample all over him, Ned's kids enjoy it when something bad happens... I think there's a difference between:
 * a running GAG (Moe's phone calls, couch gag, chalkboard gag, itchy and Scratchy Cartoons, Sign/Freeze Frame gags - in which virtually the same occurance happens with a slightly different wording or motif)
 * a running THEME of joke (eg: Homer borrows soemthing from Ned and doesn't return it - while this happens a lot, sometimes the show shows him borrowing an item, sometimes Ned asks for it back, sometimes there is just a 'Ned' tag on an item Homer is using, or Homer's incompetence at his job - various examples from the Frank Grimes episode, the episode where he gets a Duck or a Brick to cover for him, the meltdown eeny-meeny episode...)
 * a running CATCHPHRASE (mmmm... [x], Excellent, D'oh, Ay Carumba, etc.)... catchphrases could also very easily be listed under the character that typically utters them rather than in the recurring joke section, and it would be more appropriate (and the catchphrases probably ARE listed there for most characters - could have a 'catchphrase' heading as standard for a character article if a character has one). It would be the best place for extended discussion about catchphrases - in the character's own article.
 * And there are probably other running SOMETHINGs. most of the running THEME jokes are character traits that could probably also fit into character articles in a 'running jokes' heading. (EG: under Homer, a running joke could be the aforementioned bad work habits, borrowing from flanders, etc.)
 * I just think that 17 seasons of running jokes is a very difficult article to a) write b) organize and c) maintain with some shread of encyclopedic thoroughness. TheHYPO 21:48, 18 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Awesome idea... maybe make each of those into a list or something? I know that would help cleanup List of neologisms on The Simpsons a bunch, too... something like
 * Recurring character catchphrases from The Simpsons
 * Running gags on The Simpsons
 * Recurring plot themes on The Simpsons
 * feel free to edit those page titles if an article already exists... - Adolphus79 23:02, 18 June 2006 (UTC)


 * I basically created the page, because I didn't want all that stuff in the main article. I know it is hard to define what should be there. A long time ago I had discussion about the television show Friends. In that article they claimed that changing hairstyles was a running gag. People must have a weird sense of humour. They eventually made the page Running gags in Friends, which at least is a bit structured. I don't think it is such a good idea to split it into more articles. Maybe we could rename the title to something more fitting and then structure it after the TheHYPO's suggestion.
 * On www.thesimpsons.com they spell Krusty as "Krusty the Clown". --Maitch 12:36, 19 June 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree that is all belongs under one umbrella 'recurring things' heading, but the problem with a 17 (going on 19) season show is that there are about 4500 of such things. There are probably well over a hundred 'catch phrases' alone that have been repeated in more than 2 episodes. The article could get longer than The Simpsons article itself. It wasn't as bad in earlier seasons when there were a certain quantity of running gags, but with more recent seasons, they have tended to think any old thing is funny, and thus run such things to death dispite their not really being all that funny. Nevertheless, these many things count as recurring jokes. There are recurring jokes in which they cite the fact itself that it is a recurring joke 'Doesn't something like this happen every week around here?' or something of the like.


 * Re: Krusty - I believe that due to things like episodes titled Krusty Gets Kancelled, or Krusty's Komedy Klassic, people think it's also Krusty the Klown. I also see on snpp, that TV guide's synopsis for the former episode does use the Klown spelling. Has Klown ever been seen onscreen as canon? It could be a mid-production discontinuity - otherwise, I would say that, if possible, the material on wiki should stick with Clown consistantly, since it's Fox's accepted spelling. Anyone have a set of DVDs handy? The written synopses on those would be pretty official from The Simpsons itself... TheHYPO 16:57, 19 June 2006 (UTC)


 * It's Krusty the Clown on both www.thesimpsons.com and in the DVD booklets. --Natalie 00:26, 24 July 2006 (UTC)


 * In Insane Clown Poppy, Krusty signs books as K the C- Coasttocoast 03:05, 28 July 2006 (UTC)


 * So, is there a consensus as far as Clown or Klown? It's still very inconsistent within the episode capsules, etc. --Natalie 17:29, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Proposed improvements
A few proposed improvements to Simpsons stuff that wonder if someone can manage to do with some automated method rather than manually.

TheHYPO 05:01, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
 * The list on couch gags and chalkboard gags should probably wiki-link the episode codes to the episodes' pages
 * I guess it's in the template for episodes or something - in the sidebox for episodes, there exists a note about the couch and chalkboard gags, which link to The Simpsons couch gags and Bart chalkboard gags on The Simpsons respectively. Those are redirects to the actual articles: Couch gag and Chalkboard gag. If nothing else, the template should be adjusted for this; but ideally, all the old episode pages should be altered to the correct links - is there any automation that can do this?


 * 1. Yes, but it has to be done manually.
 * 2. I've fixed this. It was quite simple, because I only had to edit the template..
 * --Maitch 12:18, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

article count?
How many Simpsons-related articles are there on WikiPedia? If English WikiPedia has 1.1 million articles, I think there's about 175,000 Simpsons articles, and 250,000 Pokemon articles. But I'm just guessing. Does anyone have exact figures? -- Mikeblas 18:19, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Is that a joke? you think that 10% of Wikipedia is Simpsons articles and 25% is pokemon? I really don't buy that estimation. maybe divide your estimate by a hundred? TheHYPO 18:44, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Like I said, I'm just guessing. I'm probably too big, but even after your adjustment 1,750 seems like a lot of articles on a cartoon show. -- Mikeblas 18:48, 19 June 2006 (UTC)


 * hehe... that's part of the reason I'm tagging them all with the wikiproject banner... just to get a count... we have 378 episodes articles, and well over 100 character articles, plus lists, plus cast member articles, plus everything else (neologisms, products, locations, etc.)... I'm gonna say we end up with a good 700, if not 1000... - Adolphus79 18:41, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Awesome! I look forward to seeing what you come up with. -- Mikeblas 18:48, 19 June 2006 (UTC)


 * There are 709 articles in the categories, but some of them are redirects. --Maitch 19:01, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Joining the Project
I was wondering if I could be a participant. I have done a lot of work on many different Simpsons articles. I am the main maintainer of the List of guest stars on The Simpsons and I am the one who completely revamped. As well, I have added to various different episodes. I apologize if this does not belong here, but I did not know where else to put it. ~Scorpion0422
 * certainly, there are no requirements for membership other than adding your name to the list... welcome aboard... have fun, and happy editing... - Adolphus79 22:54, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

JustPhil
How do I sign up?- JustPhil 00:48, 20 June 2006 (UTC)


 * read the line above your question... ;) - Adolphus79 00:50, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

article importance
I see the articles section has this text: This is a list of our highest importance articles:. Isn't the list of important Simpsons articles already categorized at Category:The Simpsons articles by importance? Or is that category (and the templates it uses) something that has become vestigal and should be deleted? -- Mikeblas 21:51, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I added that just until we can get everything sorted out... we just now started the project of categorizing them by class and importance... the category is listed above, I just wanted to add a note under the 'articles' saying that we've got 750 articles that we're just now getting under control... sorry for any confusion... feel free to change the wording if you see fit... - Adolphus79 22:09, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Criteria for Quotes?
Is there a criteria for quotes in an episode article? I ask because in the article for Two Dozen and One Greyhounds, there's a quote
 * Homer: Marge, you know that batting this lightbulb is the only thing that cheers me up after giving away those million-dollar greyhounds.
 * (it hits him in the head and breaks. the room goes dark)
 * Homer: D'oh! AAH! (thud)

Which is neither amusing, memorable, or particularly quotable... It lacks much of its context without seeing the scene, and 'D'oh! AAH! (thud)' is barely even a quote. I'm guessing similar quotes exist in all sorts of episode articles? TheHYPO 05:37, 22 June 2006 (UTC)


 * quotes should be listed on WikiQuote, not Wikipedia... at least I think that's the consensus we came up with... - Adolphus79 05:39, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

OK - so what should be done about articles with quotes in them? TheHYPO 05:41, 22 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Any consensus on how many quotes, which ones, etc. in each episode capsule? Some of the episode capsules are coming close to quoting half the show... --Natalie 19:31, 5 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I think the best number would be "zero". Like someone mentioned above, quotations belong in Wikiquote, not here.  A lot of Simpsons articles have big pointless lists of random quotes; I'm probably going to go through the articles and remove them, per WP:NOT.  Cheers --DarthBinky 23:36, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I think we should list only the best quotes. Maybe 5 (possibly 10, if they're short enough) per capsule. But, it is ridiculous how many there are in the newer seasons. I recently edited the one for Wettest Stories Ever and I swear that the entire episode must have been quoted there. -- Scorpion0422 23:44, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
 * But then which one is the best? Who decides?  What rationale do we use?  --DarthBinky 00:20, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
 * It's just quotes. It really doesn't matter. If you really want to remove them all, then be my guest. But you should leave a few for each episode.
 * Ugh. I went to start on this little project and, well, pretty much all of the episode articles need some major work.  They all have the big random quotes lists, random other lists (like "Goofs"), and, most serious of all, are just big plot summaries- which are pretty much all no-no's, according to WP:NOT.  I just don't have the desire to do all of that work. --DarthBinky 20:45, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
 * A while back a bunch of us standardized all the capsules, so don't touch the goofs. The "random" other lists are: Trivia and Cultural References (and if need be, a special episode-specific section). And, the early seasons have short quote lists. Most of the big quote lists are from 14+. It's the same with the summaries. The later seasons are the worst offenders, so the task isn't as bad as it sounds. -- Scorpion0422 20:56, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I didn't even look at the newer seasons at that point- I started with Season 1 and it was bad. The point is that the policy is that these shouldn't be plot summaries, yet all of them are.  The cultural references parts are about the only things that are there that actually should be there. --DarthBinky 21:03, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I've went through some of the episode articles, and removed some quotes. I can accept a short list of quotes, but not a long one. Each Simpsons episode is 20 something minutes, a long list of quotes seems like it's almost a script of the episode. RobJ1981 00:58, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism
PS: Re:Vandalism... it seems that once every other day someone vandalizes the main article by deleting, adding their name, or other things. Is there any potential to set it up so that only registered users (with usernames that can be banned for vandalizing, not anon editors) can edit the article? I know there are articles that are closed to certain people, but I'm not sure if there's a general 'no anon' category. I also don't know the application process for it. If anyone does, I think that article might qualify... TheHYPO 05:41, 22 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Although the vandalism is very annoying I don't think that the article is vandalised enough for the semi-protection policy. It is only articles like George W. Bush that gets to be permanently semi-protected. --Maitch 15:10, 22 June 2006 (UTC)


 * There were eight seperate anonymous vandalism posts today (on the 22nd) from four seperate IPs. This is fairly typical of the The Simpsons article. I would argue that if there have to be more than 2 revisions a day, on average for vandalism, that is unnecessary, and grounds for protection. TheHYPO 22:59, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Neologisms
This is obviously a well-discussed subject in wikiSimpsonism, but the List of neologisms on The Simpsons article needs some sort of decisionism. Either it needs to be renamed away from Neologisms (dispite the intro to the article implying 'this is a list of words, not really neologisms', that doesn't really excuse an article that ignores its title). The best examples of actual neologisms in the show include D'oh - something the show invented that basically has a meaning and is now commonly recognized in our world (though one could argue that it's not a 'word', but its' in the dictionary, so I think it qualifies). Other very good examples are Cromulent and embiggen. Actual words, used in the show as actual words, with actual meanings that are used several times by several people (even in only one episode). this is really the only type of thing that qualifies. Then you have a whole mess of one-uses, complete inventions, not-even phrases, misspeaks and and other things - some of which don't even seem like they bear mentioning in any article.
 * America's Wang - it's not a word for Florida, it's a description of Florida
 * Brain Medicine - it's not a word for anything - it's not even a specific product. If I need something to fix by blindness - that would be 'eye medicine'. Nothing is invented here...
 * Can't sleep, clown will eat me - is a quote... not a neologism. None of the words is invented by The Simpsons, even if it's a phrase in pop culture now - if it goes anywhere, it belongs in an article perhaps titled quotes/phrases popularized by the Simpsons or something, along with, perhaps, Ahoy-Hoy - another phrase popularized, but not invented by the Simpsons.
 * Champagneola - that's not a new word - that's just embelishing an existing word. If this counds, Everything Flanders says counts.
 * Crapulence - as the article says, it's already a real english word.
 * Donder-Blitzen - an invented type of Sausage. It's not a new word for something, it's a parody name of something.
 * Encyclopedia Self-Destructica - Again, a parody proper name. Nothing to do with neologism.
 * Freezer Geezer - A description of a fictional character in a certain situation - not a neologism... etc.

I have to say, that besides Can't sleep, Clown'll Eat Me, none of the above-mentioned terms even bears mentioning anywhere other than perhaps a wikiquote for the appropriate episodes. There are dozens and dozens more words like this on the list. Am I wrong? TheHYPO 06:15, 22 June 2006 (UTC)


 * if you look at the talk page, I've just started working on it... look at the history, I've just been going thru and deleting one or 2 at a time for the last couple days... the talk page has a pretty good discussion regarding what should be included... I think the ones you listed could be included, compared to some of the entries on there now... if we get rid of the crap, then maybe we can be a little more flexible on the more creative semi-neologisms... - Adolphus79 06:28, 22 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Just looking at the page was pissing me off. So I got a little 'snippy'. I noticed you were editing as I was tonight. this is a link to the differences between the page before tonight and after both of our work. I think it's been significantly cleaned. I too did one at a time with explaination until the last edit, when I started going through cleaning up double-spaces, and decided to start taking out terms at the same time. So there's a number of unlisted changes on the last edit. If you have any dispute on it, by all means, bring it up in the talk page there, here or my own personal one... I pretty much dumped any invented unrealistic product or disease (particularly those that have no definition like lumber lung), I want to get rid of Burns' Grichy words (capdabblers al the other two) but it kind of is a neologism - but since they have no definition, I don't think they qualify. There's still some things I'm debating on... TheHYPO 07:48, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Screenshots as fair use
In order to resolve the long standing debate over fair use of screenshots on List of Lost episodes, I am now trying to resolve the issue under the belief that the issue is an opinionated matter and not a matter of policy. Talk:List of Lost episodes. I ask that people share their comments, but please try to keep the conversation in this section focused.

One thing that works against us is that the conversation tries to defend too many points at once. Try not to respond to comments about other aspects of the debate, and just take this one step at a time. Basically, respond if you think this is an opinionated matter regarding policy point 8 of WP:FUC or not.

I believe if we can break through on the issue of point 8, the rest will fall into place. -- Ned Scott 08:12, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

I took it upon myself (if you hate me, revert me) to merge snuh with the article it originally sourced from; I belive this means that it's [|talk page] should be de-bannered - feel free to do so, cause I wasn't 100% sure. TheHYPO 05:36, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Jeopardy?
Simpsons Jeopardy! seems to be uncategorized and unlisted in this project. Someone who knows how to take care of that should take a look :) TheHYPO 20:43, 11 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Done. --Maitch 20:55, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Simpsons Awards
I just revamped the List of awards won by The Simpsons and added MOST of the major awards (I'm yet to do the Annie Awards and some others). But, I was wondering where we draw the line with awards. Do we add EVERY award listed on SNPP and IMDB, or do we just put the major awards? As well, take a look at the format I used for some of the awards. I used tables for the emmys because they have won so many and it's better organized. I decided not to use tables for the others because they haven't won/been nominated for enough of them. And if anybody has any trivia to add, feel free to do so. ~Scorpion0422

Would like to be a member -- How can I help?
I am going to join The Simpsons WikiProject and I was wondering what I can do to help. I am a fan of the Simpsons so I think this project will be just fine for me. If you want, you can post suggestions on my talk page. Thanks! -- Tu s  pm (C 15:26, 26 July 2006 (UTC)