Wikipedia talk:WikiProject U.S. Roads/Maps task force/Archive 2

Hopefully helpful QGIS feature
I noticed TMF mentioned above that labeling of water features, cities, etc. took a long time. Well, hopefully this feature I found will help all of us QGIS users out: if you go to the Layer Properties dialog, there's a Labels tab. This tab lets you select one data field to be displayed as a label near the feature on the map. Sometimes it picks odd places to put the labels, but it seems to have some sort of collision detection that will automatically move conflicting labels around. Hope this is useful — I've found it works best for displaying county names. —Scott5114↗ [EXACT CHANGE ONLY] 22:58, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I've been using it lately for county labels, and it works very well. It doesn't work well for city labels, though, as the urbanized area layer sometimes splits larger cities into more than one polygon, and each polygon is given a label, resulting in the same city name being displayed many times. That's an issue with the GIS data and not the program, though. - Algorerhythms (talk) 23:44, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
 * That actually depends on the program. Usually polygons with the same feature name are actually a single poly made up of multiple parts.  In GIS this is a multipart feature.  ArcGIS can limit a multipart feature to label one part of the polygon (usually the largest part), or you can select to label every feature.  I'm not sure how QGIS deals with this.  Strato | sphere  05:02, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

High resolution state road maps
I don't understand the dilemma in creating maps for every major road. Why not just create a high resolution pre-labeled state maps of all major roads? It would be consistent and all the major roads can be easily cropped for their individual articles. 69.196.145.14 (talk) 14:46, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, because that would be an incredible pain in the ass. Not only would you have to make a huge map, and spend weeks labeling it, you're liable to cause your computer (or at least the GIS program) to crash from the sheer amount of memory and processor power required to render it (good luck getting though that without a segmentation fault), and then you'd need oodles and oodles of memory to load it into GIMP or Inkscape or whatever to apply the labels and crop. A file of sufficient resolution is likely to be several dozen megabytes in size. Sorry, not feasible.


 * If you want a labeled map of all highways in the state, contact your state Department of Transportation and request one. They also often have PDFs available on their website. —Scott5114↗ [EXACT CHANGE ONLY] 16:29, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Infobox Road captions
Is there a way to either caption the marker or the map in infobox road?--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 22:21, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Why would you need to do such a thing? --Rschen7754 (T C) 22:23, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

This page is part of WikiProject U.S. Roads. Rush Street is not under our scope; it's part of U.S. Streets. This project does not concern itself with local streets. —Scott5114↗ [EXACT CHANGE ONLY] 23:23, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I am attempting to respond to Rush Street (Chicago) FAC feedback.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 22:26, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
 * First of all, this is the wrong place for this question - that should be directed to Template talk:Infobox road. Secondly, you shouldn't have a picture in there in the first place. --Rschen7754 (T C) 22:32, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I have already posted there and at the help desk.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 23:44, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Is this where local streets discuss map issues? This article still needs one.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 23:43, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

SVG and Firefox
Yeah, I been gone a while and everyone might already know, but Firefox 3rc3 appears to not crash with SVG maps, although its not very dexterous with them, at least they load now :) Cheers.  Strato | sphere  00:59, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I guess we'll start finding out tomorrow when Firefox 3 goes wide. 25or6to4 (talk) 02:40, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Wow! Firefox 3 works great!  Plus it's kinda fun to watch it "build" the image pieces at a time.  25or6to4 (talk) 21:30, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Where do you get Firefox 3? The main Firefox site is painfully slow... --Rschen7754 (T C) 21:35, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
 * If firefox.com is slow, try www.spreadfirefox.com. They have a download link, too.  25or6to4 (talk) 22:38, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Tutorial
I'm interested in making some maps for these road articles, but all these GIS data and file types seems confusing to me and I would have no idea how to turn it all into an .svg map for an article. Is there any sort of tutorial that I could use to get an idea how to make such maps? Thanks in advance! —Mr. Matté (Talk/Contrib) 16:29, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

How can some roads get maps?
I've been wondering if it were possible for some road articles to use maps. Roads such as Florida State Road 50A are incredibly short, and would be impossible to recognize on a map of the State of Florida. However, given the fact that the road is located in the center of Hernando County, Florida a close-up of the road would require a map with surroundings that wouldn't be recognizable outside the Tampa Bay Metropolitan Area. DanTD (talk) 02:24, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
 * See WP:USRD/MTFR. I am looking into Florida resources, more later. Sswonk (talk) 03:13, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
 * FDOT has mapping resources on its website. If you can use GIS software, that is a good place to start. Also you could try to contact the creator of other Florida maps, such as the one at Florida State Road 804, to see if they would be willing to create a map for you. Sswonk (talk) 03:31, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

Quantum GIS question
I'm trying to create a map for Virginia State Route 28. My map currently looks like - NHS roads, water, and county borders. My problem is with the colouring. How do I get the line representing 28 to become red, the line representing I-66 to become blue, the line representing Virginia State Route 267 to become green, etc. inside QGIS? (I posted this question on the Computing reference desk and I suppose I could do it in GIMP, but it sounds too labour-intensive.) Thanks in advance. Xenon54 (Frohe Feiertage!) 23:15, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
 * To assign colors to a layer (in this example, it would be the NHS roads layer), right-click the layer name on the left side of the screen and click properties. In the window that comes up, there is a drop-down box that is by default "Single Color," or something similar. Set it to "Unique Value", and then a new drop-down box will appear listing field names. In the NHS layer, you'll want to set this to SIGNT1 (Sign Type 1). Then it will list types of roads below, and you can go through, click on each and assign a color. When you're done, click OK and it will rerender the map with the new settings.
 * To make a specific road a different color (e.g. to make Route 28 red), you'll need to make a new layer. Press N and then set the layer type to Linear and assign an attribute (it doesn't matter the type or what you call it, QGIS simply demands that you define at least one attribute), and then click OK, and it will create the layer. Go into the properties as above and (leaving the drop-down box on "Single Color") assign the color to red. To make the road show up in this color, copy and paste the road from the NHS layer to the new layer. You can make this part easier by going into the Attribute Table on the NHS layer and using the search tool at the bottom of the table. - Algorerhythms (talk) 05:20, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the help! Xenon54 (Frohe Feiertage!) 23:28, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

Tutorial written
See User:Xenon54/Map tutorial. If it's possible, I'd like someone to check over it; otherwise, should I add it to the Resources section? Xenon54 (talk) 18:23, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Pennsylvania Maps
I have been looking to create and to update some maps of my home state, Pennsylvania, but all the data I can find is from 2005 or earlier and does not include any of the major changes in US 220, I-99, or US-322. I have searched the sources suggested in the tutorial and on PennDOT's website with no help. Does anyone have any suggestion where I can find newer maps? Chris S (talk) 19:50, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
 * (removed) Xenon54 / talk / 20:51, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Whoa. Stop. Pennsylvania's are totally copyrighted. We cannot use it. Mitch 32(Want help? See here!) 20:57, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
 * My bad. I guess you're stuck with 2005 NHS for the time being. Is all state data under copyright, or only PA? Xenon54 / talk / 22:29, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Are you sure about the copyright? I check the PASDA website and its about page (http://www.pasda.psu.edu/about/default.asp) says this: "PASDA services are provided free of charge to all users and data stakeholders." I would think that as long as we cite PASDA as the source of the data, similar to the way the NHS is cited, that it would be OK. Chris S (talk) 22:54, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
 * You can't use copyrighted data in a freely licensed map. NHS data is a work of the federal government and thus in the public domain. Xenon54 / talk / 00:04, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Ok, now I'm confused - Do you mean that the PASDA data are or are not OK to use? Chris S (talk) 01:29, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I assume Mitchazenia is right (because I haven't found any evidence to the contrary) and the PASDA data is in fact copyrighted, which would make it not OK to use. Xenon54 / talk / 01:36, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I am still trying to figure out where Mitchanzenia found that this information is copyrighted. I can understand that the actual PDF maps and maps made by their proprietary utility on the site are copyrighted, but I don't plan to use those.  I want to use the GIS road data to create a map using Quantum GIS and Inkscape but I can't find anything regarding a copyright on the GIS data other than that the data are provided to the public for free use. Chris S (talk) 04:52, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
 * At the bottom of the website it says "(C) 2008 Pennsylvania State University". I don't know for sure if it applies to the data as well, but it's safe to assume it is. Ohio DOT's website, for example, does not have the same notice. Xenon54 / talk / 11:49, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I'll add the following, straight from the metadata for the Penndot Pennsylvania State Roads file :

The USER is granted permission to translate and add value to the FILES for the use of the FILES on its computer hardware; provided, however, that the USER annually notify the UNIVERSITY / COMMONWEALTH of any customizing or value-adding work done.

Any customized or value added versions of the files will contain the following disclaimer:

THIS IS NOT A PENNSYLVANIA DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION APPROVED FILE. THE DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION RETAINS THE MASTER FILES.

THE USER AGREES AND UNDERSTANDS THAT IT MAY NOT FURTHER DISTRIBUTE THE FILES TO A THIRD PARTY.

If you have any questions or problems, contact the ORGANIZATION where you acquired the data.

25or6to4 (talk) 19:23, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

Anything published since 1989 is copyrighted by default, whether or not a notice is provided. This includes data produced by states. Whether or not a map produced with that data infringes on that copyright is a thorny issue, but the result is the same whether or not the data comes with a copyright notice. It's my understanding that, at the scale we are using for these maps, the lines are simply copies of what's on the earth, and thus have no copyright protection. For example, if you open File:RI-37 map.svg in an SVG editor and zoom in, the lines become extremely imperfect, meaning that anything copyrightable is probably filtered out by the approximation process. There may be an issue if you use a "major roads" layer for which there is no definite criterion for inclusion, since the choice of which roads to include is copyrightable. --NE2 19:53, 3 September 2009 (UTC)


 * NE2, that's exactly what I was thinking. These maps do not include local roads, only signed roads and even then it's not like they are accurate enough that you could use them for anything other than a general overview of the roads.  In addition, I don't think anyone is planning to redistribute the master files, which is the only thing that is clearly prohibited.  It's also not an issue to include that required disclaimer on the image's description page.


 * If this is not possible due to copyrights, can someone explain how such recent (and accurate) data can be acquired without this source as was done with Interstate 99's map? The poster of that image claims it's his own data, but I wonder how he acquired it.  I might just use that method instead of using the PASDA data. Chris S (talk) 21:20, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

First Map - Would Like Suggestions
I just finished creating my first map (and first SVG file), which is of U.S. Route 322 Business (State College, Pennsylvania). I would like someone experienced with creating maps to take a look at it and give me any suggestions that I could do it improve it and any future maps I may create. The main question I have is if it's necessary to include township borders on the map (the entire road is in Centre County, so county lines are not on the map). If so, is this information usually with the road data in the GIS data or is it an overlay I have to manually add? Thanks for the help in advance. Chris S (talk) 05:53, 15 September 2009 (UTC)
 * It's pretty good. One suggestion I would have is to make the text larger, as it's difficult to read at that size. It's not really necessary to include township borders (I don't know of any other PA road maps on Wikipedia that do), though this file seems to be the overlay you would be looking for if you do add them. - Algorerhythms (talk) 13:28, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Request for map of PR-10
Hello. Creating maps, like keeping scores in sports, is not my forte. I don't know if I am in teh right place. If not, someone please point me in the right direction. I seek a map of PR-10 to add to the article's infobox. Thank you! I am Mercy11 (talk) 03:10, 22 June 2010 (UTC)  and I approve this message.

As stated above, the request pages is here. Thank you,  Imzadi  1979   →   03:36, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

My bad; I failed to read all the way to the bottom. I have followed your directions. Thank you, Mercy11 (talk) 22:07, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Townships and jurisdictions on regional maps
See File:Map of NY Route 178.png or File:New York Route 458 Map with Labels.svg. I think having township lines, plus labels for each township, clutters up the map way too much. I also think having each hamlet, village, city, etc. in different shades of color is unnecessary. At the end of the day, we're making maps so that readers can quickly identify where the route is. Showing what levels of jurisdiction it goes through doesn't really add to a reader's understanding of that, and could be a bit distracting or confusing. I've commented as much to the creator of the maps; he disagrees. Thoughts? –  T M F 00:56, 12 August 2010 (UTC)


 * After giving it some thought, I agree that perhaps the different colored shades are a bit too much information for the individual route maps. However, I still think the inclusion of the town lines are important for shorter routes. Especially for routes that do not cross county lines. Obviously, a road that crosses the whole state, such as NY 5, would suffer much clutter by showing individual town and city lines. But a road like NY 178, which is in a single county, could benefit by showing these town, and maybe even a few hamlet or city boundaries to help clarify where the route is, because it would help people locate the order of the communities it passes through in a graphical sense. Maybe it would look less cluttered if they used light gray (like the color standard for counties, but with thinner stoke) instead of the black lines I mistakenly used? Smb6009 (talk) 01:41, 12 August 2010 (UTC)


 * I really like these maps, and they look great when following the links at the top of TMF's paragraph. However, these maps are too busy to be used in an infobox.  When these maps are being used in the infobox, consideration needs to be applied to how they look in the infobox from the moment they are created.  The text is not going to be readable at the standard infobox image size.  Without labels, township borders are not that useful unless a very small number of borders are shown on the map.  While knowing through which townships or incorporated communuties the route goes is useful information, an infobox map is not a good place to try to provide that information. &mdash; Viridiscalculus (talk) 01:53, 12 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Alright, I changed the color of the borders in File:Map of NY Route 178.png to the correct type to follow MTF guidelines, with a lighter border color for the town lines. ... I know the dotted lines still appear to overlap making them look solid (seems to be a problem in Inkscape that I'll fix). Do you think it looks a bit less cluttered in the infobox like that? Smb6009 (talk) 02:20, 12 August 2010 (UTC)


 * And yes, I realize that it is a bit vertically stretched in the article infobox. But if you think the clutter is reduced, I'll fix the ratio to better fit the box. Smb6009 (talk) 02:24, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
 * It looks less cluttered, but that's because all of the useful information was stripped out. All the map tells me and our readers now is that it goes through two towns and intersects three roads of some kind and Interstate 81. There's no mention of what county it's in, no mention of what communities are in the area, nothing that really helps a reader unfamiliar with New York identify where the route is. I never said remove the communities; my suggestion was more along the lines of wiping out the different colors and using the "urban area" color for all of them. Lastly, I still think that there's little benefit to including townships on maps, unless the map is showing a route that's contained within a single township. Otherwise, the county is the more important and useful jurisdiction. (And to think, at one time people considered having county lines on maps excessive...) –  T M F 14:49, 12 August 2010 (UTC)


 * I'll see what I can do about mellowing the colors of the communities to the "urban area" color so they don't stand out as a huge distraction. But I still feel that in the case of NY 178, and other rural roads like it, the town borders are important. Especially since many of these rural roads may only pass through one or two incorporated communities. I mean, perhaps a reader is semi-familiar with a town, but has never heard of the only community through which the route passes. (Say, for the case of NY 178, the reader has never heard of Adams, but they are familiar with the unincorporated community of Henderson. However, since it is unincorporated, they wouldn't see 'Henderson' if I left out the 'towns' layer, and thus, would not be able to accurately pinpoint where the route was. As far as I understand, your feeling on the purpose of these maps is to help a reader unfamiliar with the area pinpoint the road's location).


 * Secondly, I guess my idea of color-coding each type of community was, in part, to help distinguish the type of area the road passes through. If you've ever driven a road through a city, the environment through which you travel might be different than the environment through, say, a small village. Getting a bit off-topic, I looked at one of your maps so I could get a feel for your styles. In the map, File:NY_Route_57_map.svg, I noticed that you have the cities Syracuse, Fulton, and Oswego in all capital letters, but the smaller villages Baldwinsville, and Central Square in normal case. I'm assuming you tried to distinguish the cities from the villages in this map, perhaps for the same reason I am? I simply took a small extra step, and just used color to help the "visual learners" identify them easier. Smb6009 (talk) 03:32, 13 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Regarding the last point, I don't necessarily use caps for just cities and mixed-case for everything else. What I do use is caps for major locations on the map and mixed elsewhere. Depending on the map, cities could be in caps and villages could be mixed, or villages could be in caps and hamlets could be mixed, or so on. I'm not trying to create political maps here, I'm trying to make road maps. I've only seen two road maps IRL that show town boundaries, and both were super-detailed maps of the Greater Rochester area. Actual road maps produced by Rand McNally et al use counties and individual locations, not towns, to provide context to the location of roads, and I believe we should do the same. –  T M F 16:10, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

I'll add a couple examples of what I did in Texas. file:Texas 3 map.svg shows a Texas highway about a county length. I added the towns for local reference, but also added an inset state map showing its location in the state. I set a voluntary road length limit of 50 miles before making the map an entire state map and excluding everything but a state shape and limited access roads file:Texas 16 map.svg, for size issues. 25or6to4 (talk) 15:38, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Section break
Opening up a separate section for the NY 458 map (File:New York Route 458 Map with Labels.svg) since the discussion above is focusing more on NY 178. Here, it looks like the location labels have been traded for townships and town names, resulting in a ton of clutter. –  T M F 16:10, 13 August 2010 (UTC)


 * The reason I was trying to focus on NY 178 was so I could get your opinion of whether or not the maps looked less cluttered, so I could then apply those themes to the rest of my maps to improve them. Smb6009 (talk) 22:27, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

The new map on NY 458 looks absolutely awful. Two points: the line strokes are way too wide, and I don't get why the new map covers a smaller area than the old one did. NY 178 suffers from the latter issue as well. –  T M F 04:28, 15 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, instead of bashing me for what I did wrong, I'd appreciate it if you could tell me what I did right, along with some suggestions of how to improve the map. I don't think starting off your response with "this map is absolutely awful" is really the right way to respond, especially if you're trying to encourage people to contribute to this project. In any case, let's get back to your issue with the map. The reason I have the map at a smaller area is because the wider the view is, the less visible it is in the infobox, which is the main purpose for the map. I'll work on the sizing of the strokes, and I will try to widen the area. However, keep in mind that I have the inset map too, so no matter how narrow the view, the inset map shows the location of the road with respect to the entire state. I'm assuming these maps are intended to show the path of the road, and not necessarily the entire part of the state which they are in. Smb6009 (talk) 17:58, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
 * In my opinion, they should be doing both. –  T M F 23:57, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

My opinion
I've been following what's been said here, but didn't feel I had something to contribute until now. These are meant to be roadmaps that are meant to be legible at 290 px of width in the infobox. It's great that someone can click the map to get a larger view of it, but the primary purpose of the map is the 290-pixel view in the infobox. If it can't be understood at that size, the map is worthless. As for other maps, please understand something, that unless a size is specified, the default thumbnail view is around 200 pixels. Editors with accounts can specify a personal default in their preferences (mine is 300 px) but any additional maps should be created with this in mind. If a map for the body of an article isn't designed to be shrunk to 220 px with clairity, then that map needs another size specified. If extraneous labels or if the boundary lines for smaller geographic subdivisions clutters the map, they should not be included. MDOT doesn't include township lines on the statewide map, so the only boundaries they used are county lines, and city outlines for the larger cities. There's a reason for that, and that's to reduce unnecessary clutter. Keep that concept in mind when creating your maps, or when the article gets to higher assessment levels, the map will need to be redone to pass those reviews.  Imzadi  1979   →   17:11, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Agreed entirely. Unfortunately, NY 458 is already a GA, so that's at least one map that I have to redo. –  T M F 22:05, 13 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Alright, the consensus here seems to feel that the purpose of these infobox maps is that they can be read easily in the infobox of the route page. Take a look at the article for New York State Route 178 now. I uploaded a map whose features are fully visible in the infobox. From that page, is a link to the original map that gives the more detailed view of the route. Maybe this helps the issue with the map being cluttered in the infobox?Smb6009 (talk) 22:27, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
 * The markers are too big. They can be smaller like the NY 458 and still visible. Personally, I'm a fan of having an inset that shows where in the state is being indicated if the state's borders aren't in view, but with the Lake Ontario label, that helps to serve the same purpose.  Imzadi  1979   →   23:00, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the quick and helpful reply, Imzadi! I uploaded a newer version with the shields a bit smaller... perhaps that looks a little better. As far as the inset, I'll work on that, but my schedule is starting to get a bit busier with school starting up soon, so it might take me a little while to generate it, as well as fixing the rest of my cluttered maps (including NY 458). Now, as far as the MTF compliancy issue for this map of Route 178, does this recent upload follow the required standards? If so, I'd appreciate it if someone could remove the tag that says otherwise in the Talk page for that route. Thanks! Smb6009 (talk) 23:24, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
 * There are a lot of flaws with that map. For one, a lot of roads and locations are missing labels. At minimum, US 11 and the large location north of Adams need labels. NY 178 ends at US 11, and also it doesn't look right to show a location as large as that and not label it. I'd also reduce the font size of the labels. I just did a test with PSP, and the labels are still clearly visible at two-thirds the size they are now. –  T M F 14:00, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the suggestions (and patience), TMF. I uploaded a new version that you may want to check out. I labeled Routes 11 and 177, and the hamlet of Adams Center, as per your suggestion. I also made the text a bit smaller. I tried sizing the text to two-thirds its original size, and could not read it at the 290x172 size on my 17" monitor with a resolution of 1024x768. However, I did shrink the text to the point where I could still clearly read it at this size, and made it dark gray. I did not label Route 193, nor the hamlet of Mannsville - this was because those labels made the map look cluttered (which was the original issue with my maps). I realize that omitting these labels could infringe upon the detail, but that's why I left my original map linked to the page as another version, so the reader could look at the detailed map of route meant to be viewed as a larger size, without losing the clarity at the infobox size of 290x192. Are there any other issues with the map that don't follow the MTF guidelines, or make it difficult to follow the route? Smb6009 (talk) 16:49, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I asked for some input on the map on IRC, and the consensus was that the text labels are still too big. The size of the route markers was also questioned, but not by as many people. –  T M F 04:20, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, perhaps you could give me a height (in pixels) that the text should be (with respect to the 290px infobox)? On my monitor setup, when viewed in the infobox, the text is about the same size as the text in the article. Now, I realize I'm making an assumption here, but I'll assume its safe to say that a screen resolution of 1024x768 can be well related to by most users. If I make the text much smaller, it simply won't be readable. And according to what I read above, "These are meant to be roadmaps that are meant to be legible at 290 px of width in the infobox". Thus, from what I've gathered, if the text is unreadable, "the map is worthless". I mean, maybe I'm taking that too literally, but IMO, the map can not be understood if you can't even read the labels at the infobox size. Smb6009 (talk) 17:47, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
 * As I've said above, two-thirds of the current size looked more than fine to me. I can't say what size others would like the text to be - other than smaller than it is now - nor can I say if cutting it by 2/3 would satisfy them. –  T M F 00:00, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

Arkansas data
Hey MTF, as far as WP:USRD goes, the state of Arkansas seems to be one of the neglected projects. (Maybe these are related.) I have been trying very hard to get the articles created, but it takes lots and lots of time. The maps here are all I have to use in terms of article creation and citations. The state highway system is not very well covered. But I was wondering if someone could help me find some data to use for Arkansas highway maps. I would like to include some maps in the articles that I create. The data that I have been able to find only has Interstates, U.S. Routes and "major" state highways. I would like to make maps for all routes, however. Could someone pleae help out the state of Arkansas?  Brandonrush   Woo pig sooie  22:51, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
 * The priority is to create maps for any articles at GA-Class or higher that lack them. Until they're all done, you'll have to make requests and hope someone fulfills them, one at a time.  Imzadi  1979   →  23:05, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
 * If someone could find the data for me, I would use the tutorial and not bother this project with lots of requests.  Brandonrush   Woo pig sooie  00:00, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
 * "If someone could find the data for me" -- what? If you want to make your own maps, you're doing your own legwork. Start with the links at WikiProject_U.S._Roads/Maps_task_force (especially the first two). You can check the website of Arkansas HTD for further data, but check the website copyright policy carefully, as state data may be (and usually, but not always, is) copyrighted. Xenon54 (talk) 00:20, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm not asking for someone else to do my legwork, I have already looked at all of those items. That's why I was asking for help. I was wondering if someone else had encountered good Arkansas data in their own work.  Brandonrush   Woo pig sooie  02:33, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Priority for Arkansas should be expanding articles to B-Class and working on eliminating the errors, such as phantom concurrencies, that seem to plague that state's articles. Currently, only Georgia and Puerto Rico are worse than Arkansas when it comes to article ratings. Maps are a nice addition to a well-written article, but focusing on maps before the articles are ready to support them is putting the cart before the horse. —Scott5114↗ [EXACT CHANGE ONLY] 03:34, 1 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Since I'm the only editor actively working on Arkansas, I thought I may as well do everything for each article as I create them. I thought I could help the encyclopedia by making maps, and thus improve a few articles. If I got lucky, someone may even offer to help me out in achieving this common goal. However this project is clearly more worried about how many "good articles" get on the main page and how the stats look. A state highway can have a map even if the article is start class. Good luck racking up GA nominations, but for those that care about information over glory and remember what this project is about, you can find me working alone on Arkansas highways. There is a large need for editors, and you are all welcome to help me out if you don't like how I'm doing the Arkansas pages.  Brandonrush   Woo pig sooie  04:07, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, if you can get the Arkansas roadgeeks I know off-wiki to stop emailing me every week pointing out more errors in the Arkansas articles, more power to you... —Scott5114↗ [EXACT CHANGE ONLY] 04:17, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
 * (ec) Brandon, I find that attitude very insulting. For quite a while now, I've been the only Michigan editor. Now, as the only Michigan editor, it's been my job lately to get all of the Start-Class articles to C-Class or B-Class. When I got a pool of Cs and Bs, I've been able to pick and choose from them for the GANs I do. Then I can go through those articles, copy edit and check them against the criteria, and get an honest review for the feedback. Once I got a pool of GAs, I can pick and choose among them for ones I want to sent through ACR or even FAC. Same process with the higher level of criteria for those processes. Quit whining, and do your own research. I've made three trips to the Library of Michigan in Lansing, and countless e-mails to sources at MDOT to get information for the articles I've worked on. From the toils come the rewards.  Imzadi  1979   →  04:23, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Scott, would they be open to emailing me? I would really like to work with them. Imzadi, I have used Mullins Library and sent numerous emails and letters to the AHTD. The majority of the time they do not even respond. There is no lack of effort here.  Brandonrush   Woo pig sooie  12:53, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
 * They do both have accounts here, though they are somewhat inactive. I'll send them a message and see if they'd be willing to get in touch with you directly. —Scott5114↗ [EXACT CHANGE ONLY] 12:55, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you, it would be a big help.  Brandonrush   Woo pig sooie  12:59, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Hi my fellow Wikipedians, I Have two important questions to ask, please reply:
Background: I been editing the Dominican National Highway System for the past year now and i been trying to improve the articles little by little as i have time and try to find sources. Lately I been stuck at the fact that I don't know what Mapping or Modeling Software to use to create these maps and here is where my questions come along...

1)What Map Software, if any, can i Use to create a series of Standardized Maps for the Dominican highways DR-1, DR-2, DR-3,etc? is there any particular one the group prefers?

2)Is it okay if I choose to use the Same U.S Road Map Standards for the Dominican Republic's NHS. The Standards are convenient and well-established for more than 5,000 maps so I see this as a convenient move...Is that okay?

I'll await a response. Thank you!EdwinCasadoBaez (talk) 16:30, 28 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Most of the people around here are using QuantumGIS/qgis because it's free, unlike AcrGIS that's a commercial product with a hefty licensing fee. There's a whole tutorial for creating maps, but you'll have to find the GIS data for the Dominican Republic.
 * Feel free to use the standards. We don't claim anything exclusive on them.
 * If you have questions, feel free to pop on IRC and ask us questions. (I don't do maps myself at the moment, but others who do are in the channel.) There are even an easy set of instructions on how to get into the highways IRC channel.  Imzadi  1979   →  17:50, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

Also, if you have some success finding GIS data and getting QGIS/Inkscape to work for you, please show us the results. I love it when maps are so good people can't believe they're made from freely available data. –Fredddie™ 04:14, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Thank you guys for the support. i'm going to start learning how to deal with QGIS as soon as my left-hand wrist heals up again, i recently fractured it but i'm looking forward to becoming good at this. I'll make sure i show my results :) EdwinCasadoBaez (talk) 06:10, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

Canada and Ontario shapefiles
Hello. Noticed a lot of maps tend to resemble the USA in Pilotwings64, with Canada as an ocean. I have the shapefiles for the province of Ontario and its road network (the former is not large, the latter is about 150mb). I've also sent in a form to the Ministry of Natural Resources to get an unrestricted license to access the GIS data for every province in Canada. If anyone is up to either making the updates or explaining how I use these things, I'm happy to share the files (and will soon have the legal rights to distribute them). -  ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ  τ ¢  18:55, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

Needs KML file tag
Recently, I have seen the WikiProject U.S. Roads banner tag "needs KML file". That tag's expression includes a link to WikiProject U.S. Roads/Maps task force, which page does not explain kml files. Because some (many ?) users may not be familiar with kml files, would it be a good idea to also have that tag's expression link the term "KML file" to an appropriate explanation? --Bejnar (talk) 14:59, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
 * The page now contains some information about KML files. An anchor link might be nice; I'll let the folks who maintain the USRD tag determine the appropriate place to put it. —Scott5114↗ [EXACT CHANGE ONLY] 03:35, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

VA I-81 error
Didn't see this in the archives. I-81 between the northern I-64 junction and West Virginia is missing on. Mapsax (talk) 13:26, 2 November 2012 (UTC)
 * This should be added to the corrections section of the Maps request page then.  Imzadi 1979  →   19:20, 2 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Fixed. 25or6to4 (talk) 03:42, 3 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks.
 * Now I see the big yellow triangle with the exclamation point. I didn't look past the archive search field since that's all that I thought that I needed. Perhaps the relevant section could be moved to the top, à la the messages at the top of article talk pages stating that the pages are for discussion of the article, not the topic...although I seem to have been the only one to have been tripped up by this. Mapsax (talk) 14:44, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

Reversing KML to GIS maps
As KMLs continue to proliferate (yay!), I'm wondering if there will soon come a time when we have all or most of the highways hooked to one. Given that some states have no GIS centreline data, and others have what seems like a half-a.... well, government, set of shapefiles.

I no longer have ArcGIS installed, but I recall an option to import KMLs into your map. This may be a simpler (though more time-involved, making all those KMLs) solution for those who are overwhelmed by GIS software. -  Floydian  τ ¢  07:42, 17 October 2013 (UTC)
 * This is already being done for a few maps :P --Rschen7754 07:43, 17 October 2013 (UTC)
 * You can do this on QGIS as well. It's a good way to "patch" GIS data too, when it's missing features (like new roads that haven't hit GIS yet). You will still need GIS data for background features, however. —Scott5114↗ [EXACT CHANGE ONLY] 10:52, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

My first KML Map
Hello,

So I made my first KML file for Interstate 84 in Idaho, could someone tell me if I did it correctly (if the line is thick enough, precise enough etc.) Thewombatguru (talk) 10:16, 3 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Looks pretty good! I'd say that the frequency of points (generalization in GIS-speak) is set low which is fine here since it's a divided highway, just make sure it's a little more frequent when you do narrower roads so that you don't have the line cutting corners through cliffs, etc. Thanks in advance for your help in contributing to the highway articles these important files! —Mr. Matté (Talk/Contrib) 13:56, 3 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Ok, I'll zoom in a bit more at the next KML Map. Thewombatguru (talk) 14:10, 3 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Is there also a place where I have to report that I made a KML map? Because I made one for Interstate 84 in Oregon. Thewombatguru (talk) 23:19, 3 May 2014 (UTC)
 * No, because USRD on the talk page will automatically detect the presence of the KML, unless no is set. If the banner doesn't automatically update, try purging or performing a null edit on the talk page to force it to update. That will update the categories.  Imzadi 1979  →   01:13, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

blank map - help
File:Great River Road map.svg opens fine in Inkscape, but renders blank. --NE2 10:02, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
 * ✅ - I guess you forgot to hit "fit window to selection." I fixed it using the background white path as the window. —Mr. Matté (Talk/Contrib) 11:03, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

Quality control
Is there any way to view or download a bunch of KML files at once for quality control/error checking purposes? --NE2 17:07, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Presumably you could use any browser extension designed for mass downloading for this purpose, e.g. DownThemAll! —Scott5114↗ [EXACT CHANGE ONLY] 18:39, 6 July 2014 (UTC)

One-way pairs in KML files
How do I represent a one-way pair? Would two paths with names 'eastbound' and 'westbound' work, like I did on U.S. Route 460 in Virginia? --NE2 22:01, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
 * That's along the lines of what I usually do. If there's more than one one-way pair, I usually specify and name it "Eastbound in (city name)". T  C  N7 JM  22:24, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
 * You could do what does and make separate lines for EB and WB for the entire route, not just the one-way couplet. –Fredddie™ 03:04, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

KML for Interstate Highway System
I cleaned up the topology of the NHPN data a bit and uploaded a KML file for the entire IHS (view on the Goog). For several reasons I'm not linking to it in the article: However, it is good enough for small-scale mapping (for which you'd probably want to filter out all future routes). --NE2 02:03, 15 July 2014 (UTC)
 * I didn't do much geometry cleanup from the NHPN data, so some Interstates are horribly imprecise (e.g. I-72 west of Jacksonville, IL; I-795 in NC, I-10 at TX exit 294).
 * There are no objective standards for which future Interstates (suffixed F) I included. I may have also gotten the status of a few recent additions wrong.
 * Curves are a bit too simplified in areas (due to Wikipedia size constraints).
 * There's also a problem with multipart lines, which doesn't affect display, but creates annoying effects when editing.

Help with KML files/broken tool?
I'm trying to create KML maps for roads in Prince Edward Island since as far as I can tell only one road is mapped, but I can't seem to get my KML format to render properly. I tried following the tutorial here and I have successfully created files that render in Google Maps (not through wmflabs) and Google Earth, but they do not render properly through the Attached KML template. The one road I'm mostly working on at the moment is Prince Edward Island Route 2. After I've formatted my KML file and pasted into the attachment template I can click on the links in the article, but with Google I get gibberish (a small block centered somewhere in the Caribbean with lines everywhere) and with Bing I get nothing at all, just a plain map centered on my location with no route lines on it.

After I went through a few rounds of trying different settings from Google Earth I gave up and just copied a KML that seems to be working, first from U.S. Route 50 then from Ontario Highway 401, and pasted the coordinates from my KML into that file, but that doesn't work either. I also noticed while testing that even those working files don't render in Bing, so maybe that tool is just broken?

Anyway, wondering if one of you experts can have a look at what I've been up to and suggest something that I might be doing wrong? Thanks in advance. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 18:23, 18 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Looks like the rendering tool is broken at the moment. Try this with articles with existing KMLs, e.g., New York State Route 79, and you get the same result.  Note that in-article rendering works just fine (remove title,inline) as in NY 79 article.  Anyway, I would wait until this is resolved before adding any more KML.  Chinissai (talk) 19:14, 18 November 2016 (UTC)
 * –Fredddie™ 04:01, 19 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I'll take your word for it, but when I go to Template:Attached KML/New York State Route 79 and open the editor, the google maps link that comes up displays a proper map for me, but that same link doesn't work for my map. Is it a matter of that map having not been updated recently (Sept 2013) and living in a cache or something? Not that I could troubleshoot myself anyway, just curious. I'll keep prepping my KML files for upload but I'll hold off until someone lets me know the tool is working. Cheers. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 11:37, 19 November 2016 (UTC)
 * I would note that correct rendering is intermittent at best, depending on the browser and even how the rendering page is loaded, as mentioned in Template talk:Attached KML. Bing Maps doesn't appear to work now either, across the board.  Chinissai (talk) 12:54, 19 November 2016 (UTC)

Help on a Map of Ulster County Historical Markers
Greetings Map Department.

I've mapped the roadside historical markers in Ulster County, NY, arguably one of the most significant contributions to collecing world knowledge on Wikipedia. But my map doesn't work so well -- a) it's in German, b) opens centered on Russia and c) seems to have a place marker around Sao Tome and Príncipe of the coast of Africa. A little help? I'll then do some maps for all of us. Thanks in advance, -- HighAtop94 (talk) 15:21, 14 February 2018 (UTC)
 * When you have lists of coordinates like you do, you're better off using . It does all the hard work for you.  I've already swapped it out. –Fredddie™ 01:36, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Fredddie™, that is so great of you. Huge improvement to have drop down maps in the list. But... what was nice about the map at the top of the page is that it showed the location of the markers relative to eachother, I think that's part of the story too. Is there a way to have both? And, If both, is there a way to have the map of all of the markers a) in English, b) centered on Ulster County, NY and c) not have a marker off the coast of Africa? --  HighAtop94 (talk) 03:37, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
 * are you talking about the WikiMiniAtlas map in the top corner? I don't believe there's anything we can do about that.  Toward the bottom of the page, there's a box labeled "Map all coordinates using:" that has a couple map links.  You can see all of the markers that way. –Fredddie™ 22:51, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

Business route interactive map line color
Primarily pinging @Fredddie since the tutorial was just updated by him. The recommended standard for business route line color on interactive maps is green (same as toll roads). In the past, however, when I've used on hardcoded maps red for the subject route and green for a nearby toll road, it was confusing for red-green color blind users since the subject and toll routes would look the same. The only featured article that has more than one color on the map is M-553 with blue as the second route's color on the map. I would recommend that we state blue should be the first secondary color for any special routes / former routes. After that, maybe the colors for subsequent colors be purple, darker pink, and darker grey to provide contrast against the lighter colored map. —Mr. Matté (Talk/Contrib) 12:32, 18 September 2022 (UTC)


 * Good call. I was going off of the old static map standards. M-554's map (it was separate from M-553) uses #0000ff. How is this for a pallette? –Fredddie™ 19:00, 18 September 2022 (UTC)