Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Underwater diving

Compressor diving :: rename?

 * Article Compressor diving is about a method of surface-supplied diving used in some tropical sea areas in Asia, using rudimentary kit. I called it "compressor diving" because that name for it was used by the BBC TV 1 program which described it; but other better-equipped sorts of surface-supplied diving also use air compressors. Is there a specific name in English or any Asian language for this sort of diving? See also discussion at http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/non-diving-related-stuff/366539-compressor-diving.html . Anthony Appleyard (talk) 09:51, 15 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I would have thought that Compressor diving shares sufficient commonality with Surface-supplied diving to be a part of that article. It certainly seems notable enough to stand alone, but neither article is large, so I'd recommend merging Compressor diving into Surface-supplied diving as a section below the main text. The title Compressor diving could become a redirect to that section. --RexxS (talk) 16:27, 15 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I agree. Surface supplied diving is small but there is a lot of scope for improvement. I will probably get around to it some day.Peter (Southwood) (talk): 15:28, 14 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Compressor diving has been merged into Surface-supplied diving. Peter (Southwood) (talk): 14:17, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Your opinions and advice
A recently discussion WikiProject Council/Proposals/Women's Sport. Your opinions and your advice are welcome. --Geneviève (talk) 23:03, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

Merge all underwater search articles to Underwater searches
The articles Circular search, Jackstay search should be merged and new sections created for other search patterns such as Spiral box search, Compass grid search etc. Redirects for existing article titles to the new page. These search patterns are not sufficiently noteworthy to justify their own articles, which will always be small, as there is not that much to say about them. However there are several and together they would fornm a logically coherent whole. Peter (Southwood) (talk): 11:40, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I'd certainly agree with that, Peter, and I recommend just going ahead and doing it if you get no objections within the next few days. Please take care, though, to observe WP:NOTHOWTO and I'd recommend using this opportunity to scrap all the unsourced junk (like the line signals) that clogs up articles like these. --RexxS (talk) 19:03, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I have done the merge, and added a few other searches, but I don't know how to describe them in a way that does not give a moderate amount of information on how they are done, as to quite a large extent the variations are distinguished by how they are done. Cheers, Peter (Southwood) (talk): 19:17, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Hehe, I'm sorry if I gave you a false spin, Peter, WP:NOTHOWTO is really just an injunction not to write step-by-bullet-pointed-step instruction guides instead of proper prose. You're quite right that you have to give some description of the search mechanics for each case. You've done a good job of writing encyclopedic prose in Underwater searches and I don't think anybody is going to confuse the current article with an instruction manual :D --RexxS (talk) 23:33, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
 * OK, no problem. I tend to write instructional material quite a lot. It's part of what I do, so may have a tendency to wander off in that direction as a matter of habit. I will try to get around to drawing a few illustrations when I feel the inclination, unless someone else has access to suitable non-copyright work. Cheers, Peter (Southwood) (talk): 16:54, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

Rationalising decompression articles
I have had a look at a few of the articles relating to decompression, and I think that some of them should be merged. A main article Decompression (diving) could be created and some of the more trivial articles like Decompression stop, Decompression curve and No Decompression Limit could be merged into it and redirected. Decompression is a major topic for diving, and I think the article should be planned a bit before starting if we do it. Any suggestions? Peter (Southwood) (talk): 19:56, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Drop a note to Legis in case he misses this note. He's done quite a bit of work on decompression, and created the Decompression navigation template. If I were you, I'd have a look at these articles to see what's covered there:
 * Decompression sickness
 * Decompression illness
 * and the disambiguation page:
 * Decompression
 * You might want to consider merging some or all of the content from the following articles:
 * Decompression stop
 * Decompression chamber
 * Decompression buoy
 * Decompression trapeze
 * Dive table
 * Recreational Dive Planner
 * Dive computer
 * Decompression algorithm
 * Bühlmann decompression algorithm
 * Reduced gradient bubble model
 * Thalmann algorithm
 * Varying Permeability Model
 * Decompression schedule
 * No Decompression Limit
 * In-water recompression
 * Deco on the fly
 * Ratio decompression
 * There may be others. I'm hoping to collaborate with Gene Hobbs to update Decompression sickness and get it to FA status in the near future, so there may be more new, good quality sources coming along soon. It's worth looking in the Rubicon Research Repository for the most usable sources, as well as checking out PubMed for the physiological aspects.


 * I have started a basic outline at User:Pbsouthwood/Decompression (diving). Please take a look and comment, and if there are no major problems (It can always be rearranged later if neccessary) I will move it to article space and start the merges and redirects. Cheers, Peter (Southwood) (talk): 07:44, 13 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Happy to help if I can; I am just about to go travelling for a while so if I am slow in contributing, please don't wait for me! --Legis (talk - contribs) 13:20, 13 October 2011 (UTC)


 * The draft is nearing completion and I will submit it soon so the merges can be started. There will be quite a bit to do after that, but I think it would not be efficient to polish the draft much more. Peter (Southwood) (talk): 18:05, 20 October 2011 (UTC)


 * New article Decompression (diving) is up. I will start on merges soon. Peter (Southwood) (talk): 20:30, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

This discussion can be archived. It has been copied to the new article talk page and the article is up and running. Peter (Southwood) (talk): 09:41, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

Quality of Underwater searches
No longer a stub. My estimate is a C, but needs review and comment. Peter (Southwood) (talk): 15:21, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

Rename Diving signals to Diver communications
I suggest renaming Diving signals to Diver communications as the latter has a wider scope and includes voice comms. Original article name to redirect. Peter (Southwood) (talk): 16:04, 14 October 2011 (UTC)


 * No objections in two weeks, I will go ahead and make the changes. Peter (Southwood) (talk): 09:43, 28 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Done Peter (Southwood) (talk): 16:09, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

Merge discussion for Decompression chamber
An article that you have been involved in editing, Decompression chamber, has been proposed for a merge with another article. If you are interested in the merge discussion, please participate by going, and adding your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. Peter (Southwood) (talk): 09:39, 28 October 2011 (UTC)
 * No objections in 3 weeks, I will go ahead and merge Peter (Southwood) (talk): 09:32, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Done. Peter (Southwood) (talk): 16:10, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

Peer review for Decompression (diving)
The Decompression (diving) article has developed considerably and has reached a stage where review would be helpful. The following aspects need comment: Thanks, Peter (Southwood) (talk): 15:06, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Completeness - What more should be included, and what, if anything, should be removed.
 * Language - Quality, clarity, grammar, spelling, the whole 9 yards. Is the information reasonable accessible.
 * How close is the article to:
 * B-class
 * Good Article
 * What images should be on the wish list (photos, diagrams, graphs etc)
 * In the absence of any comment, I have checked the article against B-class criteria and rated it as B.

Time to archive this talk page?
I suggest that it is time to archive at least part of this talk page. Perhaps all the items before 2011? Cheers, Peter (Southwood) (talk): 16:26, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Over a month and no comments, I will go ahead. Peter (Southwood) (talk): 14:54, 12 May 2012 (UTC)

Proposal to add importance scale and attention category to the WPSCUBA template
Discussion at Template talk:WikiProject Scuba diving Peter (Southwood) (talk): 15:26, 12 May 2012 (UTC)

Are there any freediving editors here?
Hi all, I'm wondering how to sort out some issues in the freediving pages. The initial problem: there are many confusions between the 3 sorts of divers the 'category' labels at the end of articles: free, SCUBA and board divers. But there are others, and the whole freediving area seems to receive less attention than the SCUBA articles. So the broader question – do any editors in this project focus on freediving? If so, please drop me a line on my talk page, and I'll expand my thoughts.

I don't want to suggest a separate Wiki project for freediving at this stage, but that could be an option. I suppose another issue I'm getting at is that if freediving articles are being looked after under this project, then it should be more obvious on those pages. --Wally Tharg (talk) 19:46, 4 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Hi Wally Tharg, WP Scuba diving has very few active editors at present, and most of them seem to be more breathing apparatus orientated. The scope of WP Scuba diving is "If you wear it, breathe it, use it, or even look at it while you're underwater, then it probably falls under the scope of this project. More refined details about the scope to come at a later date." As far as I know, no more refined details were ever added, and although breathing while underwater is mentioned, I think the scope includes freediving until proven otherwise, there is no conflict, so welcome to the project as a Freediving specialist. I have recently added all the freediving pages that I have actually looked at to my watchlist, but there are probably some I have missed. I am willing to help where I can, but my field is more scuba and surface supplied diving, and there is more than enough to keep me busy there. Freediving is also definitely within the scope of the Underwater diving portal, so take a look there and see if you have any suggestions to improve coverage. Peter (Southwood) (talk): 08:44, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

Hi yes, I am a freediving editor and would love to contribute pages and make edits in this area. I'm very new to wikipedia editing and page creation but eager to help. What I lack in wiki knowledge, I more than make up for in Freediving knowledge Emkrakoff (talk) 15:33, 26 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Hi please go ahead and improve our content on freediving. I mostly work on scuba and commercial diving, and general diving topics, so happy to have someone working on freediving. I have been here a while, and have a reasonably extensive knowledge of writing for Wikipedia, so ping me anytime you want some information. I may not always have a solution, but may know who or where to ask. Cheers, &middot; &middot; &middot; Peter Southwood (talk): 17:47, 14 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Hi please go ahead and improve our content on freediving. I mostly work on scuba and commercial diving, and general diving topics, so happy to have someone working on freediving. I have been here a while, and have a reasonably extensive knowledge of writing for Wikipedia, so ping me anytime you want some information. I may not always have a solution, but may know who or where to ask. Cheers, &middot; &middot; &middot; Peter Southwood (talk): 17:47, 14 October 2021 (UTC)

Nomination of Decomression (diving) for A-class
Per WP:ACLASS I hereby nominate Decompression (diving) for review as an A-class article.

"For WikiProjects without a formal A-Class review process, the proposal to promote to A-Class should be made on the article's talk page and supported there by two uninvolved editors, with no significant opposes. The review should also be noted on the discussion page."

Please review and comment on the Talk page. Peter (Southwood) (talk): 09:24, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

Merge proposal
I propose to merge Glossary of SCUBA diving into Glossary of underwater diving terminology (and redirect) as it is a subset of the appropriate contents for this article. Merging would reduce duplication, reduce maintenance and improve usefulness. Glossary of SCUBA diving is also non-compliant with WP:MOSGLOSS and WP:SCUBA naming conventions (should be Glossary of scuba diving terms, which should also be a redirect). Discussion on Talk:Glossary of underwater diving terminology. Peter (Southwood) (talk): 10:22, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

RfC on the use of flag icons for sportspeople
An RfC discussion about the MOS:FLAG restriction on the use of flag icons for sportspeople has been opened at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Icons. We invite all interested participants to provide their opinion here. Qwyrxian (talk) 02:56, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

Hyperbaric chamber
Please see Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine. -- Red rose64 (talk) 21:09, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

Bret Gilliam
I'm about to remove a substantial amount of unsourced puffery from Bret Gilliam, and I expect to be reverted by an IP who is related to the subject. I have no intention of edit-warring, so my only recourse is to appeal to members of this project who may be willing to offer a third opinion at Talk:Bret Gilliam. Any extra eyes would be appreciated. Cheers --RexxS (talk) 17:46, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

Diving medicine article - request for your comments
Hi all, I would like to start expanding the Diving medicine article, but would like your opinions on what it should contain. See the talk page. Cheers, &bull; &bull; &bull; Peter (Southwood) (talk): 14:42, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

List of diver training organizations
Hi all, I would like opinions on the scope of this article. Please comment on the talk page. Thanks, &bull; &bull; &bull; Peter (Southwood) (talk): 18:26, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Dacorum Diving Club
Hello diving enthusiasts! The above article in the Afc may be of interest to you. &mdash;Anne Delong (talk) 23:17, 4 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Not that kind of diving. &bull; &bull; &bull; Peter (Southwood) (talk): 09:14, 5 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Oops! I guess I should have read further down the page...  &mdash;Anne Delong (talk) 14:35, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

Comment on the WikiProject X proposal
Hello there! As you may already know, most WikiProjects here on Wikipedia struggle to stay active after they've been founded. I believe there is a lot of potential for WikiProjects to facilitate collaboration across subject areas, so I have submitted a grant proposal with the Wikimedia Foundation for the "WikiProject X" project. WikiProject X will study what makes WikiProjects succeed in retaining editors and then design a prototype WikiProject system that will recruit contributors to WikiProjects and help them run effectively. Please review the proposal here and leave feedback. If you have any questions, you can ask on the proposal page or leave a message on my talk page. Thank you for your time! (Also, sorry about the posting mistake earlier. If someone already moved my message to the talk page, feel free to remove this posting.) Harej (talk) 22:48, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

WikiProject X is live!


Hello everyone!

You may have received a message from me earlier asking you to comment on my WikiProject X proposal. The good news is that WikiProject X is now live! In our first phase, we are focusing on research. At this time, we are looking for people to share their experiences with WikiProjects: good, bad, or neutral. We are also looking for WikiProjects that may be interested in trying out new tools and layouts that will make participating easier and projects easier to maintain. If you or your WikiProject are interested, check us out! Note that this is an opt-in program; no WikiProject will be required to change anything against its wishes. Please let me know if you have any questions. Thank you!

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Harej (talk) 16:56, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

Suggested split of Decompression practice
Opinions requested on the suggested split of Decompression practice at the GA discussion page Thanks,&bull; &bull; &bull; Peter (Southwood) (talk): 19:39, 12 March 2016 (UTC)

New article Scuba diving fatalities
Improvements, comments and suggestions welcome &bull; &bull; &bull; Peter (Southwood) (talk): 15:42, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

Importance of diving articles.
At this stage we have no indication of the importance of our articles to the project. I suggest that we are at a stage where it may be worth considering which articles are most worth working on to provide a useful set of references for the ordinary reader and the ordinary diver.

If there are no objections I will add an importance parameter to the project template and create the requisite categories. &bull; &bull; &bull; Peter (Southwood) (talk): 19:40, 21 June 2016 (UTC)


 * It has been done, I am busy allocating importance to all articles without allocation, and may modify some which are already set. All project members please feel free to set ratings and to amend ratings if you feel they should be different. If you change by more than one level in either direction, we have a significant difference in opinion, so in that case please motivate the change so we can work towards a consensus. Cheers, &bull; &bull; &bull; Peter (Southwood) (talk): 19:03, 25 June 2016 (UTC)

Commercial offshore diving expansion needs comment
I am expanding this article and need input, particularly regarding how much I need to clarify for ordinary readers. &bull; &bull; &bull; Peter (Southwood) (talk): 14:18, 5 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I've commented at Talk:Commercial offshore diving . --RexxS (talk) 15:57, 5 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I've commented at Talk:Commercial offshore diving . --RexxS (talk) 15:57, 5 July 2016 (UTC)

Lead article revision and prep for GAN
I am going to have a go at reorganising the structure of Underwater diving with the longer term target of GAN. Input from anyone who has a constructive comment or useful addition is welcome. &bull; &bull; &bull; Peter (Southwood) (talk): 08:47, 15 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Underwater diving has been reorganised and expanded as a general introduction and summary of the field. I intend to nominate for good article but would like recommendations from interested parties first. Particularly:
 * What has been left out that should be included?
 * What is in too much detail?
 * Can anyone help with the outstanding missing citations? If all else fails the uncited material can be deleted without great loss, but someone thought it was worth including.
 * &bull; &bull; &bull; Peter (Southwood) (talk): 09:02, 18 September 2016 (UTC)

Proposed move of Mammalian diving reflex
A rename to either Diving reflex or Diving response has been proposed. Discuss. Cheers, &bull; &bull; &bull; Peter (Southwood) (talk): 12:30, 26 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Done. &bull; &bull; &bull; Peter (Southwood) (talk): 09:20, 14 February 2017 (UTC)

WikiProject X Newsletter • Issue 10
Issue 10 of the WikiProject X newsletter is here!

This month, we discuss the new CollaborationKit extension. Here's an image as a teaser:



23:59, 3 March 2017 (UTC)

Metres sea water and feet sea water - RfC
I have requested an extension to Convert for conversions to and from msw and fsw. I also found what I considered inaccuracies in the Metres sea water article, which was based on two not particularly authoritative websites, and edited it to reflect the presumed official opinions of the US Navy, and IMCA. However even those generally reliable sources can be wrong, and I don't have a primary source to go to for the original definition.

I understand the conventional usage of metres sea water (msw) and feet sea water (fsw) to be primarily in the underwater diving and hyperbaric medicine context, and that they refer either to an ambient pressure of a diver or occupant of a hyperbaric chamber or habitat, or to the pressure difference between parts of a hyperbaric chamber or habitat. In all these cases msw and fsw are gauge pressure. (either relative to the atmospheric pressure, or relative to another part of the habitat/chamber) When msw or fsw is converted to other units of pressure, it is almost always expressed as an absolute pressure in bar, atm or other general purpose units of pressure for depth of the diver or internal pressure of a chamber/habitat, and when it is a pressure difference, it is seldom converted, but if converted would necessarily be as a pressure difference, which is a type of gauge pressure.

If there are other contexts in which msw and fsw are used, I am not aware of them. Other use may be important for a conversion template. If anyone is aware of such use, please mention it.

I consider a conversion template to be useful for this project mainly for references to fsw, where the conversion is less trivial than msw(gauge) to bar(absolute).

I suggest the following conversions as useful extensions to Convert:


 * 1 msw → 1 meter sea water (3.26336 feet sea water)
 * 1 fsw → 1 foot sea water (0.30643 feet sea water)


 * 1 msw → 1 metre sea water (0.1000 bar)
 * 1 msw → 1 metre sea water (1.1000 bar)
 * 1 msw → 1 metre sea water (10.0000 kPa)
 * 1 msw → 1 metre sea water (110.0000 kPa)


 * 1 fsw → 1 foot sea water (0.030242 atm)
 * 1 fsw → 1 foot sea water (1.030242 ata) (1 fsw gauge pressure = 1 atm + 1fsw)
 * 1 fsw → 1 foot sea water (0.4444 kPa)
 * 1 fsw → 1 foot sea water (15.1444 psi) (from 14.7+0.4444)

And possibly others, though I think this would be most.
 * 1 atm → 1 atmosphere (gauge) (33.066 fsw)
 * 1 ata → 1 atmosphere (absolute) (0.000 fsw)
 * 1 bar(g) → 1 bar (gauge) (10 msw)
 * 1 bar(a) → 1 bar (absolute) (0 msw)

The usual collection of additional parameters for rounding, abbreviation etc would probably be acceptable in their usual form. &bull; &bull; &bull; Peter (Southwood) (talk): 11:43, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

Occupational diving safety sources
User:Pbsouthwood asked on my talk page about sources on occupational diving safety. The National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health has a number of sources:
 * There's an pamphlet on diving hazards for firefighters. There are also a number of Fire Fighter Fatality Reports that involve diving; these discuss general safety recommendations in the context of specific incidents.
 * For commercial fishing, there are four region-based publications that include some statistical information about diving injuries: Alaska, East Coast, Gulf of Mexico, West Coast.
 * CDC, of which NIOSH is a part, has a number of publications, including a chapter in the Yellow Book and a number of pieces in the Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report.
 * More generally, there's a search tool for NIOSH guidance publications, and the NIOSHTIC search engine that includes all publications by NIOSH including journal articles. NIOSH's scope is very broad, performing research on all aspects of occupational safety and health.

I will ask around to see if I can come up with more sources; if anyone has more specific requests let me know! John P. Sadowski (NIOSH) (talk) 22:05, 21 March 2017 (UTC)


 * Thanks, I will work my way through these as time allows, and use them as appropriate. I will also get back to you if I need something specific which I can't find on the net. If you see a place where a specific source may be useful in any WPSCUBA article, and don't have the time or inclination to edit it yourself, just leave a link on the article talk page and I will get round to it some time if someone else doesn't do it first. Cheers, &bull; &bull; &bull; Peter (Southwood) (talk): 07:11, 23 March 2017 (UTC)

RFC on sports notability
An RFC has recently been started regarding a potential change to the notability guidelines for sportspeople. Please join in the conversation. Thank you. Primefac (talk) 23:09, 5 May 2017 (UTC)

Danish Frogmen Corps listed at Requested moves
A requested move discussion has been initiated for Danish Frogmen Corps to be moved to Frogman Corps. This page is of interest to this WikiProject and interested members may want to participate in the discussion here. —RMCD bot 03:45, 17 June 2017 (UTC)
 * To opt out of RM notifications on this page, transclude, or set up Article alerts for this WikiProject.


 * Commented on talk page. &bull; &bull; &bull; Peter (Southwood) (talk): 04:02, 17 June 2017 (UTC)

Compressed gas listed at Requested moves
A requested move discussion has been initiated for Compressed gas to be moved to compressed air. This page is of interest to this WikiProject and interested members may want to participate in the discussion here. —RMCD bot 20:30, 1 July 2017 (UTC)
 * To opt out of RM notifications on this page, transclude, or set up Article alerts for this WikiProject.

International Diving Federation at AfD
International Diving Federation has just been relisted at Articles for deletion/International Diving Federation, owing to lack of comments. If anyone has any opinion either way, your contribution would be appreciated there. --RexxS (talk) 12:48, 5 July 2017 (UTC)

Compressed air listed at Requested moves
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Discussion at NSPORTS
Hello all. In an effort to finally resolve the never-ending and annoying GNG v SSG issue, I've proposed a revision of the NSPORTS introduction. You are all invited to take part in the discussion. Thank you. Jack &#124; talk page 06:20, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

WikiProject X Newsletter • Issue 11
Newsletter • February 2018

Check out this month's issue of the WikiProject X newsletter, with plans to renew work with a followup grant proposal to support finalising the deployment of CollaborationKit!

-— Isarra ༆ 21:26, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

WikiProject collaboration notice from the Portals WikiProject
The reason I am contacting you is because there are one or more portals that fall under this subject, and the Portals WikiProject is currently undertaking a major drive to automate portals that may affect them.

Portals are being redesigned.

The new design features are being applied to existing portals.

At present, we are gearing up for a maintenance pass of portals in which the introduction section will be upgraded to no longer need a subpage. In place of static copied and pasted excerpts will be self-updating excerpts displayed through selective transclusion, using the template Transclude lead excerpt.

The discussion about this can be found here.

Maintainers of specific portals are encouraged to sign up as project members here, noting the portals they maintain, so that those portals are skipped by the maintenance pass. Currently, we are interested in upgrading neglected and abandoned portals. There will be opportunity for maintained portals to opt-in later, or the portal maintainers can handle upgrading (the portals they maintain) personally at any time.

Background
On April 8th, 2018, an RfC ("Request for comment") proposal was made to eliminate all portals and the portal namespace. On April 17th, the Portals WikiProject was rebooted to handle the revitalization of the portal system. On May 12th, the RfC was closed with the result to keep portals, by a margin of about 2 to 1 in favor of keeping portals.

There's an article in the current edition of the Signpost interviewing project members about the RfC and the Portals WikiProject.

Since the reboot, the Portals WikiProject has been busy building tools and components to upgrade portals.

So far, 84 editors have joined.

If you would like to keep abreast of what is happening with portals, see the newsletter archive.

If you have any questions about what is happening with portals or the Portals WikiProject, please post them on the WikiProject's talk page.

Thank you. &mdash; The Transhumanist  11:01, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

Proposal to rename the project to WikiProject Underwater diving
The scope of the project has been the full range of underwater diving for a long time, and the project related portal, and lead article are already titled Underwater diving. This would largely be formalising the status quo of several years. The main reason for this is to encourage participation by a wider range of editors, including those with interests in freediving, underwater sports, and surface supplied diving, who may be discouraged by the project name. &middot; &middot; &middot; Peter (Southwood) (talk): 10:25, 15 June 2018 (UTC)

Discussion:
 * The intention is to minimise changes and confusion by retaining templates, shortcuts and links as redirects. &middot; &middot; &middot; Peter (Southwood) (talk): 10:37, 15 June 2018 (UTC)
 * This makes sense to me, but we'll need a project regular to comment. Pinging to and, who I know are still active (not an inclusive list, please ping others as appropriate). —Compassionate727 (T·C) 21:23, 16 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Absolutely (was pinged here) - diving is far more diverse than restricting it only to scuba. Atsme 📞📧 21:31, 16 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Sounds like an idea worth trying. As all the current links, etc. would still exist, it shouldn't cause any confusion. Pinging some of the active editors whom I know still contribute. --RexxS (talk) 21:37, 16 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Would anyone consider it canvassing if I pinged a few freediving contributors? &middot; &middot; &middot; Peter (Southwood) (talk): 05:55, 17 June 2018 (UTC)
 * No, but I don't always get along the best with the canvassing policy. It's one thing when you are gathering votes that match yours, another when looking for potentially new opinions that might end up matching yours in the end anyway. We disregard the former when determining consensus (at least when we do it right, which I admit many admins don't do), so (at least in my mind) there's no harm to the discussion in pinging everyone under the Sun to solicit opinions, just potentially wasted time for the pinged editors. —Compassionate727 (T·C) 18:19, 17 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Please do,, discussions always benefit from entertaining as broad a range of opinions as we can find. The CANVASS guideline is there to prevent selective or pre-judgemental notifications from distorting consensus. As we have no idea what views freedivers will have of the proposal, the choice can't be considered selective, so (assuming the notification is neutrally phrased) you are most likely to be improving the quality of the discussion. Cheers --RexxS (talk) 23:28, 17 June 2018 (UTC)
 * , What do you think? &middot; &middot; &middot; Peter (Southwood) (talk): 05:49, 18 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Support – I support the change and have recently been thinking about suggesting it myself. Regards Cowdy001 (talk) 07:37, 17 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Support – I support as this is a great idea. --Gene Hobbs (talk) 17:27, 18 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Support – good idea, as usual Pbsouthwood. E x nihil (talk) : Ex nihil (talk) 10:24, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Support – Definitely a positive move, Peter. --Wally Tharg (talk) 16:47, 15 July 2018 (UTC)

Renaming of diving organizations with French names
Hi everyone, I recently noticed that the two organizations with French names have been renamed with English names, i.e. Fédération Française d'Études et de Sports Sous-Marins (FFESSM), the French underwater sports federation and Confédération Internationale de la Pêche Sportive  (CIPS), an international fishing federation which is the predecessor of Confédération Mondiale des Activités Subaquatiques (CMAS).

The following link from the Manual of Style advises that the native name must be used if no official English versions exist and that translations of native names are not acceptable - Manual of Style/France and French-related.

I have checked the following:
 * 1) AIDA International - I have created a redirect International Association for Development of Apnea. Please note that AIDA International is an example of organization that has both official French and English names.
 * 2) CMAS - this article already has a redirect World Underwater Federation. I am not sure if I should create a link for the Spanish name.

The FIPS article has not been renamed but its content has been changed - this is easy to fix, however I need to check if it has an official English version of its name. In respect to the FFESSM article, does anyone know how to revert the renaming of an article? RegardsCowdy001 (talk) 03:12, 18 July 2018 (UTC)
 * I noticed that renaming as well. The MoS is a guideline, but the policy at WP:UE states "In deciding whether and how to translate a foreign name into English, follow English-language usage. If there is no established English-language treatment for a name, translate it if this can be done without loss of accuracy and with greater understanding for the English-speaking reader." That rather contradicts the guidance at MOSFRANCE. I'm much more accustomed to seeing FFESSM as Fédération Française d'Études et de Sports Sous-Marins (2,300,000 Google hits) than French Federation of Undersea Studies and Sports (1,500 Google hits), so I've moved it back to its original name. You just use the page move function to rename an article. Cheers --RexxS (talk) 16:22, 18 July 2018 (UTC)
 * I noticed that renaming as well. The MoS is a guideline, but the policy at WP:UE states "In deciding whether and how to translate a foreign name into English, follow English-language usage. If there is no established English-language treatment for a name, translate it if this can be done without loss of accuracy and with greater understanding for the English-speaking reader." That rather contradicts the guidance at MOSFRANCE. I'm much more accustomed to seeing FFESSM as Fédération Française d'Études et de Sports Sous-Marins (2,300,000 Google hits) than French Federation of Undersea Studies and Sports (1,500 Google hits), so I've moved it back to its original name. You just use the page move function to rename an article. Cheers --RexxS (talk) 16:22, 18 July 2018 (UTC)

Two issues re 'Category:Underwater diving'
The following are two issues that I think need attention.

The first issue is the relationship between Category:Underwater diving and Category:Underwater sports. An editor called User:91.124.117.29 has been doing a lot of editing of categories and navbars associated with articles about Sport - please refer User contributions. This editing includes categories and navbars within the area of interest of the project which I accept as improvements with the following exception - Category:Underwater diving and Category:Underwater sports were changed by this editor so that the former is now a sub-category of the latter. I have started the following thread on the editor's talk page - please refer User talk:91.124.117.29. My view is that ‘underwater sports’ is a sub-set of ‘Underwater diving’ because people doing underwater sport are using underwater diving techniques and that changes should be made to the relevant categories in order to reflect this situation.

Secondly, further to the above, I noticed that Category:Underwater diving has a parent category called Category:Underwater occupations. While I do think that Category:Underwater diving should be the project's paramount category, the category structure above ‘Underwater occupations’ may suggest otherwise. For example Category:Underwater work is a sub-category of Category:Water – I would think that new category called something like ‘Underwater human activity’ should be inserted between two former categories in order to broaden the scope of the category structure.

Regards Cowdy001 (talk) 08:05, 30 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Hi, (, your opinion also valued)
 * I agree that Category:Underwater sports is a sub-category of Category:Underwater diving, as it is necessary to dive to take part in any known underwater sport, but one can dive for other reasons too. This one is quite clear. The change is wrong and must be reverted.
 * Underwater occupations is a bit less clear cut. Some underwater occupations may not involve diving, like submariner. (I can't think of any others offhand, but it is possible). Underwater work could be done remotely from the surface without human diving, by diving machines like ROVs and AUVs which are a bit of a grey area, or by equipment like drill rigs, pipelaying barges and dredgers, to name a few which would not be considered diving. Occupation usually implies an employment type activity, not recreation, though remuneration need not be involved.
 * Recreation, occupation and work all count as human activities, so Underwater human activity would be a parent for Underwater work, Underwater diving, Underwater occupations Recreational diving etc.
 * Category:Recreational diving would be a subcategory of Category:Underwater diving which would be a subcategory of Underwater human activity.
 * Category:Underwater work would be a direct subcategory of Category:Underwater human activities.
 * Category:Underwater occupations would be a direct subcategory of Category:Underwater human activities.
 * Category:Underwater diving would be a direct subcategory of Category:Underwater human activities.
 * Some articles would be categorised in Underwater work Underwater occupations and/or Underwater diving, or any combination of the three, but none of underwater work, underwater occupations or underwater diving would be a subcategory of any of the others.
 * Does this look right to you? &middot; &middot; &middot; Peter (Southwood) (talk): 08:48, 30 July 2018 (UTC)
 * I think Peter has it exactly right. One of the problems with categorisation is that the gnomes doing it often have little understanding of the topic with which they are dealing. It's worth noting that we've agreed some time ago that recreational diving is not a sport, because the definition of 'sport' that we accept necessarily includes some element of competition, which recreational diving certainly does not. There are a few sports carried out underwater, such as octopush and aquathlon, but generally, most underwater diving activities should not be sub-categories of any form of sport. --RexxS (talk) 09:27, 30 July 2018 (UTC)
 * I think Peter has it exactly right. One of the problems with categorisation is that the gnomes doing it often have little understanding of the topic with which they are dealing. It's worth noting that we've agreed some time ago that recreational diving is not a sport, because the definition of 'sport' that we accept necessarily includes some element of competition, which recreational diving certainly does not. There are a few sports carried out underwater, such as octopush and aquathlon, but generally, most underwater diving activities should not be sub-categories of any form of sport. --RexxS (talk) 09:27, 30 July 2018 (UTC)


 * Thanks, I will implement the above. Regards Cowdy001 (talk) 09:32, 30 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks guys, I do appreciate the gnomes, but as you say they are sometimes a bit in the dark and wander off in less helpful directions. One of these days I must try to do a bit of category fixing again. &middot; &middot; &middot; Peter (Southwood) (talk): 12:44, 30 July 2018 (UTC)

WikiProject X Newsletter • Issue 12
Newsletter • August 2018

This month: WikiProject X: The resumption

Work has resumed on WikiProject X and CollaborationKit, backed by a successfully funded Project Grant. For more information on the current status and planned work, please see this month's issue of the newsletter!

-— Isarra ༆ 22:24, 30 August 2018 (UTC)

WikiProject X Newsletter • Issue 13
Newsletter • December 2018

This month: A general update.

The current status of the project is as follows:
 * Progress of the project has been generally delayed since September due to development issues (more bitrot than expected, some of the code just being genuinely confusing, etc) and personal injury (I suffered a concussion in October and was out of commission for almost two months as a result).
 * I currently expect to be putting out a proper call for CollaborationKit pilots in January/February, with estimated deployment in February/March if things don't go horribly wrong (they will, though, don't worry). As a part of that, I will properly update the page and send out announcement and reach out to all projects already signed up as pilots for WikiProject X in general, at which point those (still) interested can volunteer specifically to test the CollaborationKit extension.
 * WikiProject X/Pilots was originally created for the first WikiProject X prototype, and given this is where the project has since gone, it's only logical to continue to use it. While I haven't yet updated the page to properly reflect this:
 * If you want to add your project to this page now, feel free. Just bear in mind that more information what to actually expect will be added later/included in the announcement, because by then I will have a much better idea myself.
 * Until then, you can find me in my corner working on making the CollaborationKit code do what we want and not just what we told it, per the workboard.

Until next time,

-— Isarra ༆ 22:44, 20 December 2018 (UTC)

A new newsletter directory is out!
A new Newsletter directory has been created to replace the old, out-of-date one. If your WikiProject and its taskforces have newsletters (even inactive ones), or if you know of a missing newsletter (including from sister projects like WikiSpecies), please include it in the directory! The template can be a bit tricky, so if you need help, just post the newsletter on the template's talk page and someone will add it for you.
 * – Sent on behalf of Headbomb. 03:11, 11 April 2019 (UTC)

WikiProject X Newsletter • Issue 14
Newsletter • June 2019

Updates: I've been focusing largely on the development side of things, so we are a lot closer now to being ready to actually start discussing deploying it and testing it out here.

There's just a few things left that need to be resolved:
 * A bunch of language support issues in particular, plus some other release blockers, such as the fact that currently there's no good way to find any hubs people do create.
 * We also probably need some proper documentation and examples up to even reference if we want a meaningful discussion. We have the extension documentation and some test projects, but we probably need a bit more. Also I need to be able to even find the test projects! How can I possibly write reports about this stuff if I can't find any of it?!

Some other stuff that's happened in the meantime:
 * Midpoint report is out for this round of the project, if you want to read in too much detail about all the problems I've been running into.
 * WikiProject Molecular Biology have successfully set up using the old module system that CollaborationKit is intended to replace (eventually), and it even seems to work, so go them. Based on the issues they ran into, it looks like the members signup thing on that system has some of the same problems as we've been unable to resolve in CK, though, which is... interesting. (Need to change the content model to the right thing for the formwizard config to take. Ugh, content models.)

Until next time,

-— Isarra ༆ 21:43, 21 June 2019 (UTC)

Portal:Underwater diving
Proposal to delete all portals

The discussion is at Village pump (proposals). Voceditenore (talk) 07:52, 23 September 2019 (UTC)

Reorganisation of underwater diving navboxes
I want to try to rationalise the main and sub-navboxes to reduce redundancy and make finding an article a bit easier. If anyone has ideas of how to do this efficiently, please let me know. Otherwise I plan to progress by trying things out and see what works. Please point out any obvious errors or inconsistencies. Cheers,&middot; &middot; &middot; Peter Southwood (talk): 15:11, 23 September 2019 (UTC)

The new template is roughly up to date - more so than the old one, anyway - and as far as I can tell it is working correctly and ready to deploy. I propose to copy it over the old one if no-one can come up with a reason not to do it. There may be errors and omissions or details that can be improved. Those should be fixable. Please let me know if you spot them. Cheers, &middot; &middot; &middot; Peter Southwood (talk): 14:19, 23 October 2019 (UTC)

WikiProject X Newsletter • Issue 15
Newsletter • September 2019

A final update, for now:

The third grant-funded round of WikiProject X has been completed. Unfortunately, while this round has not resulted in a deployed product, I am not planning to resume working on the project for the foreseeable future. Please see the final report for more information.

Regards,

-— Isarra ༆ 19:24, 29 September 2019 (UTC)

Request for information on WP1.0 web tool
Hello and greetings from the maintainers of the WP 1.0 Bot! As you may or may not know, we are currently involved in an overhaul of the bot, in order to make it more modern and maintainable. As part of this process, we will be rewriting the web tool that is part of the project. You might have noticed this tool if you click through the links on the project assessment summary tables.

We'd like to collect information on how the current tool is used by....you! How do you yourself and the other maintainers of your project use the web tool? Which of its features do you need? How frequently do you use these features? And what features is the tool missing that would be useful to you? We have collected all of these questions at this Google form where you can leave your response. Walkerma (talk) 04:25, 27 October 2019 (UTC)

Blacklisting watersportsmag.com
An IP hopping editor has been regularly adding false references to the site "watersportsmag.com" in multiple different articles. I've cleaned them all up and I've now added the site to the spam blacklist. --RexxS (talk) 00:02, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

Who is watching here?
Hi anyone who is watching this project talk page.

I am trying to get some idea of the number of people registered as project members who keep a watch here for any questions or comments that may be added, and might respond if they have something useful to say. If you watch the page as a non-project member, feel free to mention it below. &middot; &middot; &middot; Peter Southwood (talk): 09:24, 11 February 2020 (UTC)
 * &middot; &middot; &middot; Peter Southwood (talk): 09:24, 11 February 2020 (UTC)


 * I am watching this page. Regards Cowdy001 (talk) 09:27, 11 February 2020 (UTC)
 * +1 Atsme Talk 📧 10:41, 11 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Me too. --RexxS (talk) 16:05, 11 February 2020 (UTC)

Proposed split of Diving regulator
See discussion at Talk:Diving regulator. Mainly a size issue. &middot; &middot; &middot; Peter Southwood (talk): 11:15, 10 March 2020 (UTC)

National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration listed at Requested moves
A requested move discussion has been initiated for National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration to be moved to NOAA. This page is of interest to this WikiProject and interested members may want to participate in the discussion here. —RMCD bot 16:46, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
 * To opt out of RM notifications on this page, transclude, or set up Article alerts for this WikiProject.

Updating active project participants
Updating the project list so if you are an active participant who is watching this page, please add your name below:


 * 1) Atsme Talk 📧 14:41, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
 * 2) --RexxS (talk) 22:15, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
 * 3) &middot; &middot; &middot; Peter Southwood (talk): 16:37, 16 February 2021 (UTC)
 * 4) --TrinacrianGolem (talk) 17:59, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

New name
I think it's time to rename Category:WikiProject SCUBA and its subcategories, as well as. Est. 2021 (talk · contribs) 01:16, 26 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Rename it to what, may I ask?  Atsme 💬 📧 01:54, 26 March 2021 (UTC)

Barnstar


Introducing the Underwater diving Barnstar. Jerm (talk) 06:15, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Good job, !! I love it!  Atsme  💬 📧 17:36, 27 March 2021 (UTC)

Template:Infobox dive site
Hello, I just became aware of this WikiProject. I created Infobox dive site since there didn't seem to be anything comparable to Infobox hiking trail for diving recreationalists. Please feel free to use, improve, amend, burn at the stake, etc. Thanks, Featous (talk) 20:48, 4 April 2021 (UTC)
 * As someone who is generally in favour of infoboxes when they are useful, I wonder how useful this will be for dive sites on Wikipedia, as I would guess most of our dive site articles are primarily articles on ships, which are incidentally also dive sites in their current state as shipwrecks. Much of the data for the infoboxes may not be available from reliable sources. We shall see. &middot; &middot; &middot; Peter Southwood (talk): 08:39, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

Split and merge Diving rebreather
Both Rebreather and Rebreather diving are very long articles. Quite a lot of the content in both articles is on the topic of diving rebreathers. I propose splitting out the content on diving rebreathers from Rebreather to Diving rebreather, and possibly splitting and merging some content from Rebreather diving to Diving rebreather.

Discuss at Talk:Rebreather
 * ✅, &middot; &middot; &middot; Peter Southwood (talk): 09:23, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

Dave Shaw (diver) listed at Requested moves
A requested move discussion has been initiated for Dave Shaw (diver) to be moved to Dave Shaw. This page is of interest to this WikiProject and interested members may want to participate in the discussion here. —RMCD bot 03:34, 10 July 2021 (UTC)
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Oxygen window in diving decompression listed at Requested moves
A requested move discussion has been initiated for Oxygen window in diving decompression to be moved to Oxygen window. This page is of interest to this WikiProject and interested members may want to participate in the discussion here. —RMCD bot 22:47, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
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Kilsby sinkhole
FYI I added the page Kilsby sinkhole after seeing it on Youtube. I really know jack sh*t about diving, so letting you folks here know. I guess there are some caves, but I do not have the chops to describe them. This report seems to be the best source on what is there. --- Possibly &#9742; 06:33, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

Underwater habitats retired
The Underwater Habitats page is at least 3 years out of date and needs help, MarineLab is retired and there is other work on moving the Scott to retired and updating Jules to remove refs to MarineLab. Chadnibal (talk) 21:35, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

Talk:Women Divers Hall of Fame
There's a discussion about listing inductees as redlinks based on the org itself. Your input is welcome. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 07:07, 20 June 2022 (UTC)

Split proposed for Cave diving
The article is large. I have proposed splitting out the content on Cave diving regions. Discussion at Talk:Cave diving. &middot; &middot; &middot; Peter Southwood (talk): 05:20, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Done. &middot; &middot; &middot; Peter Southwood (talk): 07:45, 19 September 2022 (UTC)

Stratification (water) listed at Requested moves
A requested move discussion has been initiated for Stratification (water) to be moved to ocean stratification. This page is of interest to this WikiProject and interested members may want to participate in the discussion here. —RMCD bot 14:33, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
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Good article reassessment for Lipid
Lipid has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Onegreatjoke (talk) 21:27, 9 February 2023 (UTC)

Project-independent quality assessments
Quality assessments by Wikipedia editors rate articles in terms of completeness, organization, prose quality, sourcing, etc. Most wikiprojects follow the general guidelines at Content assessment, but some have specialized assessment guidelines. A recent Village pump proposal was approved and has been implemented to add a class parameter to WikiProject banner shell, which can display a general quality assessment for an article, and to let project banner templates "inherit" this assessment.

No action is required if your wikiproject follows the standard assessment approach. Over time, quality assessments will be migrated up to WikiProject banner shell, and your project banner will automatically "inherit" any changes to the general assessments for the purpose of assigning categories.

However, if your project has decided to "opt out" and follow a non-standard quality assessment approach, all you have to do is modify your wikiproject banner template to pass WPBannerMeta a new custom parameter. If this is done, changes to the general quality assessment will be ignored, and your project-level assessment will be displayed and used to create categories, as at present. Aymatth2 (talk) 22:09, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

Competence (human resources) listed at Requested moves
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Top 10 best dive spots in the world?
There are some references though I doubt at least two of them (the Great Blue Hole in Belize and the Richelieu Rock in Thailand). I’m well aware of WP:NOR but given my experience of 40+ years of diving in 21 countries (including most of the ones in the lists) I can’t for the life of me find anything special about them. Keeping the references and their claims in articles will be misleading. I think that the usual template undefined does the common reader no good. How to deal with that? I expect that removing both the claims and references may lead to an edit war when tour operators see their interests infringed. Alfie ↑↓ © 14:03, 15 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Marine life in the Great Blue Hole is naturally very limited due to restricted water exchange. To expect any species of shark is futile because they have nothing to feed on. The standard procedure of tour operators is a no-decompression bounce dive according to the Navy tables (for a while we are living in the 20th century…). IMHO, a bottom time of a couple of minutes ‘just to be there’ and get a T-shirt ‘I dove the Blue Hole’ is not worth the efforts.
 * At the Richelieu Rock seeings of large pelagics like whale sharks and manta rays are extremely rare, even in the best part of the dry season (February to April). Critters are not more abundant than at other dive sites in the Surin and Similan Islands.


 * I think the way to deal with this is to provide attribution for the claim by specifying by whom, in what source, and when, the claims were made. &middot; &middot; &middot; Peter Southwood (talk): 18:08, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

Talk:Shark_cage_diving
The question came up about renaming the article, please join if you have an opinion on that, or anything else. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 11:24, 10 August 2023 (UTC)