Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Venezuela/Archive 4

Coordinators' working group
Hi! I'd like to draw your attention to the new WikiProject coordinators' working group, an effort to bring both official and unofficial WikiProject coordinators together so that the projects can more easily develop consensus and collaborate. This group has been created after discussion regarding possible changes to the A-Class review system, and that may be one of the first things discussed by interested coordinators.

All designated project coordinators are invited to join this working group. If your project hasn't formally designated any editors as coordinators, but you are someone who regularly deals with coordination tasks in the project, please feel free to join as well. &mdash; Delievered by §hepBot  ( Disable )  on behalf of the WikiProject coordinators' working group at 06:55, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Article alerts
This is a notice to let you know about Article alerts, a fully-automated subscription-based news delivery system designed to notify WikiProjects and Taskforces when articles are entering Articles for deletion, Requests for comment, Peer review and other workflows (full list). The reports are updated on a daily basis, and provide brief summaries of what happened, with relevant links to discussion or results when possible. A certain degree of customization is available; WikiProjects and Taskforces can choose which workflows to include, have individual reports generated for each workflow, have deletion discussion transcluded on the reports, and so on. An example of a customized report can be found here.

If you are already subscribed to Article Alerts, it is now easier to report bugs and request new features. We are also in the process of implementing a "news system", which would let projects know about ongoing discussions on a wikipedia-wide level, and other things of interest. The developers also note that some subscribing WikiProjects and Taskforces use the  parameter, but forget to give a link to their alert page. Your alert page should be located at "Wikipedia:PROJECT-OR-TASKFORCE-HOMEPAGE/Article alerts". Questions and feedback should be left at Wikipedia talk:Article alerts.

Message sent by User:Addbot to all active wiki projects per request, Comments on the message and bot are welcome here.

Thanks. — Headbomb {{{sup|ταλκ}}κοντριβς – WP Physics} 09:50, 15 March, 2009 (UTC)

mormon temple in Caracas
There is a Mormon temple in Caracas. Should the article belong to this WikiProject? LDS-SPA1000 (talk) 03:37, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Proposal for a 200-WikiProject contest
A proposal has been posted for a contest between all 200 country WikiProjects. We're looking for judges, coordinators, ideas, and feedback.

The Transhumanist 00:39, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Pages needing translation into English
Here are some Spanish language pages needing translation into English: WhisperToMe (talk) 08:24, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
 * es:Bancos de Venezuela
 * es:Superintendencia de Bancos y otras Instituciones Financieras (Venezuela)
 * es:Asociación Bancaria de Venezuela
 * es:Aseguradoras de Venezuela

WikiProject X is live!


Hello everyone!

You may have received a message from me earlier asking you to comment on my WikiProject X proposal. The good news is that WikiProject X is now live! In our first phase, we are focusing on research. At this time, we are looking for people to share their experiences with WikiProjects: good, bad, or neutral. We are also looking for WikiProjects that may be interested in trying out new tools and layouts that will make participating easier and projects easier to maintain. If you or your WikiProject are interested, check us out! Note that this is an opt-in program; no WikiProject will be required to change anything against its wishes. Please let me know if you have any questions. Thank you!

Note: To receive additional notifications about WikiProject X on this talk page, please add this page to WikiProject X/Newsletter. Otherwise, this will be the last notification sent about WikiProject X.

Harej (talk) 16:58, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

FAR notice
I have nominated Military career of Hugo Chávez for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Sandy Georgia (Talk) 17:34, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

Expert attention
This is a notice about Category:Venezuela articles needing expert attention, which might be of interest to your WikiProject. It will take a while before the category is populated. Iceblock (talk) 19:57, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

Ricardo Zuloaga
Please expand Ricardo Zuloaga if you can. Most sources are in Spanish.Zigzig20s (talk) 00:57, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

History of South America
I've been working on History of South America. Any assistance with copy editing would be much appreciated. -- Marek . 69    talk  22:38, 26 March 2016 (UTC)

List of Presidents of Venezuela listed at Featured list removal candidates
I have nominated List of Presidents of Venezuela for featured list removal here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets the featured list criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks; editors may declare to "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. AHeneen (talk) 03:55, 9 June 2016 (UTC)

Category:Order of the Liberator has been nominated for discussion
Category:Order of the Liberator, which is within the scope of this WikiProject, has been nominated for deletion. A discussion is taking place to see if it abides with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. RevelationDirect (talk) 02:33, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

Latin American 10,000 Challenge invite
Hi. The WikiProject Latin America/The 10,000 Challenge ‎ has recently started, based on the UK/Ireland The 10,000 Challenge and WikiProject Africa/The 10,000 Challenge. The idea is not to record every minor edit, but to create a momentum to motivate editors to produce good content improvements and creations and inspire people to work on more countries than they might otherwise work on. There's also the possibility of establishing smaller country or regional challenges for places like Brazil, Mexico, Peru and Argentina etc, much like The 1000 Challenge (Nordic). For this to really work we need diversity and exciting content and editors from a broad range of countries regularly contributing. At some stage we hope to run some contests to benefit Latin American content, a destubathon perhaps, aimed at reducing the stub count would be a good place to start, based on the current WikiProject Africa/The Africa Destubathon which has produced near 350 articles in just six days. If you would like to see this happening for Latin America, and see potential in this attracting more interest and editors for the country/countries you work on please sign up and being contributing to the challenge! This is a way we can target every country of Latin America, and steadily vastly improve the encyclopedia. We need numbers to make this work so consider signing up as a participant! Thankyou.♦ Dr. Blofeld  13:22, 21 October 2016 (UTC)

2016 Community Wishlist Survey Proposal to Revive Popular Pages
Greetings Members!

This is a one-time-only message to inform you about a technical proposal to revive your Popular Pages list in the 2016 Community Wishlist Survey that I think you may be interested in reviewing and perhaps even voting for:


 * Fix and improve Mr.Z-bot's popular pages report

If the above proposal gets in the Top 10 based on the votes, there is a high likelihood of this bot being restored so your project will again see monthly updates of popular pages.

Further, there are over 260 proposals in all to review and vote for, across many aspects of wikis.

Thank you for your consideration. Please note that voting for proposals continues through December 12, 2016.

Best regards, — Delivered: 18:19, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

Article categorisation
Is there any reason why the template for this project has its MAINCAT categorising articles into rather than  in line with other WikiProjects? It has some minor side-effects in terms of breaking some templates and bots, it would be sensible to bring it in line with Argentina, Brazil etc? Le Deluge (talk) 20:20, 18 December 2016 (UTC)

Popular pages report
We – Community Tech – are happy to announce that the Popular pages bot is back up-and-running (after a one year hiatus)! You're receiving this message because your WikiProject or task force is signed up to receive the popular pages report. Every month, will post at /Popular pages with a list of the most-viewed pages over the previous month that are within the scope of. We've made some enhancements to the original report. Here's what's new:
 * The pageview data includes both desktop and mobile data.
 * The report will include a link to the pageviews tool for each article, to dig deeper into any surprises or anomalies.
 * The report will include the total pageviews for the entire project (including redirects).

We're grateful to for his original, and we wish his bot a happy robot retirement. Just as before, we hope the popular pages reports will aid you in understanding the reach of, and what articles may be deserving of more attention. If you have any questions or concerns please contact us at m:User talk:Community Tech bot.

Warm regards, the Community Tech Team 17:16, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

Attack on WikiProject Venezuela
Please see Tucupita Municipality, its edit history and talk and its history.

Several users attacked the page and the talk page. 77.179.57.32 (talk) 07:04, 27 November 2017 (UTC)
 * 1) insertion of duplicate coordinates which result in error message and in two coordinate-sets overlaid
 * 2) insertion of see also section and links against WP:NOTSEEALSO - all links already in article's main text
 * 3) replacing DeltaAmacuro-geo-stub with Venezuela-stub so the page is removed from Category:Venezuela geography stubs and added to Category:Venezuela stubs
 * 4) converting municipal seat into
 * 5) shire town
 * 6) municipal
 * 7) municipal - link removal with misleading edit comment  "Well, maybe it should be "municipal, but the rest stays.", resulting in: "The town of Tucupita is the municipal of the Tucupita Municipality." - What???
 * 8) addition of  (like putting county article into category of county seat)
 * 9) insertion of "|time_zone= VST (UTC-4:30)" - but the place is on UTC−04:00 and the zone known as VET
 * 10) insertion of dead link to http://tucupita-deltaamacuro.gob.ve/portal-alcaldias/

Names of articles about municipalities of Venezuela
Since at least 2006/2007 the standard for municipalities of Venezuela was to include the type name, the same way as is done for U.S. counties. Also geodis was done by state name not with "Venezuela". Most entities are fine cf category:municipalities of Venezuela but in this category most are false. An article about any "Washington County" is not at a page "Washington" plus some geodis, e.g. it is "King County, Washington" not King, United States.

User:AlexTheWhovian, User:Anthony Appleyard can you revert the undiscussed moves and restore "X Municipality" or if ambiguous "X Municipality, Miranda" for those in Category:Municipalities of Miranda (state)? 85.180.161.75 (talk) 07:29, 27 November 2017 (UTC)

Some examples:
 * Independencia Municipality, Miranda has been move to Independencia, Venezuela - but there are even several places with that name in Venezuela 85.180.161.75 (talk) 07:48, 27 November 2017 (UTC)
 * ✅ Anthony Appleyard (talk) 08:41, 27 November 2017 (UTC)

Invitation to edit
Hi, I invite you to edit and expand this article United States involvement in regime change in Latin America that would certainly benefit from more editors. Greetings. --Dereck Camacho (talk) 05:37, 19 January 2018 (UTC)

WikiProject collaboration notice from the Portals WikiProject
The reason I am contacting you is because there are one or more portals that fall under this subject, and the Portals WikiProject is currently undertaking a major drive to automate portals that may affect them.

Portals are being redesigned.

The new design features are being applied to existing portals.

At present, we are gearing up for a maintenance pass of portals in which the introduction section will be upgraded to no longer need a subpage. In place of static copied and pasted excerpts will be self-updating excerpts displayed through selective transclusion, using the template Transclude lead excerpt.

The discussion about this can be found here.

Maintainers of specific portals are encouraged to sign up as project members here, noting the portals they maintain, so that those portals are skipped by the maintenance pass. Currently, we are interested in upgrading neglected and abandoned portals. There will be opportunity for maintained portals to opt-in later, or the portal maintainers can handle upgrading (the portals they maintain) personally at any time.

Background
On April 8th, 2018, an RfC ("Request for comment") proposal was made to eliminate all portals and the portal namespace. On April 17th, the Portals WikiProject was rebooted to handle the revitalization of the portal system. On May 12th, the RfC was closed with the result to keep portals, by a margin of about 2 to 1 in favor of keeping portals.

There's an article in the current edition of the Signpost interviewing project members about the RfC and the Portals WikiProject.

Since the reboot, the Portals WikiProject has been busy building tools and components to upgrade portals.

So far, 84 editors have joined.

If you would like to keep abreast of what is happening with portals, see the newsletter archive.

If you have any questions about what is happening with portals or the Portals WikiProject, please post them on the WikiProject's talk page.

Thank you. &mdash; The Transhumanist  08:00, 30 May 2018 (UTC)

RfC on election/referendum naming format
An RfC on moving the year from the end to the start of article titles (e.g. South African general election, 2019 to 2019 South African general election) has been reopened for further comment, including on whether a bot could be used move the articles if it closed in favour of the change: Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (government and legislation). Cheers, Number   5  7  15:41, 20 October 2018 (UTC)

Juan Guaidó as president of Venezuela
Currently, the discussion and decisions about it in the Spanish Wikipedia are taking place in es:Discusión:Nicolás Maduro. Is there a similar discussion in English Wikipedia? --MaoGo (talk) 12:01, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

Request for comment on Telesur at the reliable sources noticeboard
There is a request for comment on the reliability of Telesur at the reliable sources noticeboard. If you are interested, please participate at. —  Newslinger  talk   02:48, 3 February 2019 (UTC)

A new newsletter directory is out!
A new Newsletter directory has been created to replace the old, out-of-date one. If your WikiProject and its taskforces have newsletters (even inactive ones), or if you know of a missing newsletter (including from sister projects like WikiSpecies), please include it in the directory! The template can be a bit tricky, so if you need help, just post the newsletter on the template's talk page and someone will add it for you.
 * – Sent on behalf of Headbomb. 03:11, 11 April 2019 (UTC)

Inflation per year 2018
Articles like Crisis in Venezuela indicate an inflation of about one million percent/year for Venezuela in 2018 (source Asamblea Nacional). This recent article Venezuela's Hyperinflation Hits 80,000% Per Year in 2018 from Forbes contends 80,000% percent and arguments against the IMF estimation of 1,000,000%. I do not know how notable and reliable is this calculation but if it is that important it should appear in the articles. Maybe we could write something like 'different calculations give an inflation of 1,300,000% and 80,000% for 2018', with the respective sources.--MaoGo (talk) 23:09, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

Maduro
Does anyone still follow this project? The Nicolás Maduro article is utterly dismal, and it is not surprising that readers are thinking it is POV, since the lead does not make its case at all, and if anything, is leaving readers confused. I imagine few people care to work on that article, but the lead does not even remotely explain why his presidency is considered fraudulent, it is verbose and overcited, does not flow, does not lay out the most critical aspects of how he came to be considered illegitimate, is trying to cover too much rather than Keep It Simple, and ... here is why all of that matters: |Juan_Guaidó|2019_Venezuelan_presidential_crisis. During the border clashes, that is the article that was being read. People are trying to read that article in droves, and readers are probably coming away with the wrong idea about why this presidency is considered illegitimate by half the world. I suggest that efforts really need to be focused on fixing this article-- or at least its lead. Sandy Georgia (Talk)  06:56, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
 * And, please, people-- stop filling articles with empty citation parameters. They chunk up the article horribly, and make it hard to find text to edit.  Sandy Georgia  (Talk)  07:05, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
 * sorry Sandy, I might be one of those filling the article with empty citation parameters, I think it is a consequence of the "visual edit" tool that autocompletes the citation but leaves some parameters in blank. --MaoGo (talk) 18:28, 6 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Not to worry, my editing frustration is aimed at the computer, not people :)  I get over it as soon as we have a clean and presentable article!  I was wondering where the tool is that generates those dreadful citations.  I write mine by hand; that is probably stupid :)  Sandy Georgia  (Talk)  18:41, 6 March 2019 (UTC)

Guaidó image
Could people please weigh in over at Talk:Juan Guaidó? Sandy Georgia (Talk)  01:04, 24 March 2019 (UTC)

To Do List
(who did I miss?) starting a running list of where we need work. Sandy Georgia (Talk)  15:22, 9 April 2019 (UTC)


 * Shortages in Venezuela AND Shortages in Venezuela
 * need a summmary of 2019 Venezuelan blackouts
 * Added info, please check/add more Kingsif (talk) 17:19, 9 April 2019 (UTC)


 * Shortages in Venezuela
 * needs to be changed to "Medicine and medical supplies" with info from Crisis in Venezuela and Crisis in Venezuela
 * Added info, please check/add more Kingsif (talk) 17:19, 9 April 2019 (UTC)


 * Shortages in Venezuela
 * needs info from Crisis in Venezuela and 2019 Venezuelan blackouts (lack of maintenance, brain drain)
 * Shortages in Venezuela
 * does not mention Crisis in Venezuela
 * Started section and added info, may need proofreading. --Jamez42 (talk) 18:48, 9 April 2019 (UTC)


 * From Juan Guaidó
 * Negotiations during the Venezuelan crisis from es:Diálogos durante la crisis en Venezuela (includes Uruguay Group I guess?)
 * Translated Kingsif (talk) 19:27, 9 April 2019 (UTC)


 * Crime in Venezuela
 * needs info from Crisis in Venezuela
 * Added info! May need proofreading. --Jamez42 (talk) 18:16, 11 April 2019 (UTC)


 * Health care in Venezuela
 * needs an update from Crisis in Venezuela
 * Added info! May need proofreading. --Jamez42 (talk) 18:16, 11 April 2019 (UTC)


 * Individual biographies need to be updated with info from International sanctions during the Venezuelan crisis


 * You people are awesome! I will plug through your work when I find time; the work at the Crisis article did me in, and I have some catching up in real life to do ... like, pay my bills!  (By the way, for now, there is more detail than needed at the Crisis article, but my idea is that there will eventually be a Health care crisis in Venezuela article, and that level of detail will be needed ... I'm just not quite finished or ready to spin it off yet ... also, need ideas on article name.)  Sandy Georgia  (Talk)  19:01, 9 April 2019 (UTC)


 * From International sanctions during the Venezuelan crisis missing are several big bios.
 * CanadaSanc
 * EU7
 * SwitzerlandReuters
 * PanamaSanc
 * MexicoSanc
 * EU11
 * Antonio José Benavides (Poderopedia Univision)
 * USTreas9Mar2015
 * Socorro Elizabeth Hernández (Poderopedia)
 * Treas9Nov2017
 * Sandra Oblitas Ruzza (Poderopedia)
 * Treas9Nov2017
 * Sergio José Rivero (Poderopedia)
 * Treas26July2017
 * Those are the most significant, with sanctions from more than three countries, and if we can do those, then can move on to the list of people sanctioned by three countries.
 * Poderopedia is one of my favorite sites to create short biographies. I'll include them besides the people for the time being. --Jamez42 (talk) 18:21, 9 April 2019 (UTC)
 * , I believe that is a wiki; not a reliable source, and especially not for BLPs. (One of the reasons I never translate BLPs from the es.wiki is that es is very lax in enforcing BLP.) Even if it is not a wiki, it does not rise to the level of quality of sourcing needed for a BLP. Sandy Georgia  (Talk)  18:27, 9 April 2019 (UTC)
 * I have checked before, they do have an editorial team that includes journalists, with changes being suggested or reported rather than edited directly. In any case we can consult the "Fuentes" tab to look after the original references if there are concerns with using it as a source. --Jamez42 (talk) 18:33, 9 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Good ... but also, their sources are typically (?) in Spanish, and on these folks, we can easily find English-language sources. Actually, the link in sources on the Sanctions article to the US Treasury sanction page gives enough to start a bio on every one of them ... the other countries sources listed at Sanctions may have more.  Sandy Georgia  (Talk)  18:40, 9 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Sorry! I usually find it easier to find sources in Spanish. I would like to create the article in Spanish, but I don't think I will anytime soon. I'll take a look at the to do list above. --Jamez42 (talk) 18:40, 9 April 2019 (UTC)


 * I've started those four bios, but they REALLY need to be filled out and I am hoping others will do that; I have only created a shell with sanction information. Sandy Georgia  (Talk)  16:25, 11 April 2019 (UTC)

Queries

 * Does anyone know how to update the graphs on Commons made by ? A lot of them at Crisis in Venezuela need updating. Sandy Georgia (Talk)  15:51, 9 April 2019 (UTC)
 * I think she mostly used an Apple program, but I'm not sure of which one. --Jamez42 (talk) 18:02, 9 April 2019 (UTC)
 * With ZiaLater missing, I am hoping someone will generally do a huge update to Shortages in Venezuela, Crime in Venezuela and Health care in Venezuela with information already available in other articles. Sandy Georgia  (Talk)  16:05, 9 April 2019 (UTC)


 * What graphs do you want updated? The most difficult part is finding updated and consistent sources. If you could provide sources, I can have some graphs done within the next few days.ZiaLater ( talk ) 22:32, 10 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Wonderful, so glad to hear from you again!! I have just chunked a ton of new sourced info into Crisis in Venezuela-- you know that article better than I do, so anything you see that is outdated and can use the new info I added would be greatly appreciated.  Sandy Georgia  (Talk)  22:42, 10 April 2019 (UTC)


 * With the shortages graph, I have not found any updated information. No updated information about kidnappings. There is updated information about the murder rate. Any other graphs?ZiaLater ( talk ) 23:20, 10 April 2019 (UTC)

✅ – Murder rate graph ZiaLater ( talk ) 23:31, 10 April 2019 (UTC)
 * That was fast, thanks ! I can't remember where I saw others, but they were mostly economic.  I think one was inflation, maybe?  If you have time, could you poke around in all the economic articles?  Sandy Georgia  (Talk)  23:33, 10 April 2019 (UTC)

Discussion
PLEASE remember Copying within Wikipedia; when copying from another article, you must include a link to that article in edit summary, with an edit summary indicating where the text came from ! This is REQUIRED on Wikipedia for attribution. Sandy Georgia (Talk)  16:15, 9 April 2019 (UTC) And... here comes another IMF Freezes Venezuela Funds as Members Debate Who's President this is too technical for me but seems important.--MaoGo (talk) 12:15, 10 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Today's Bloomberg article about Venezuela's crisis: Venezuela Unemployment Nears That of War-Ruined Bosnia, IMF Says--MaoGo (talk) 20:34, 9 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I'll work on that now.  Because it is still early in the month, Bloomberg is not yet paywalled for me.  Sandy Georgia  (Talk)  20:41, 9 April 2019 (UTC)
 * ✅ Sandy Georgia  (Talk)  21:58, 9 April 2019 (UTC)
 * thanks I will add it to my morning list and get to it sometime today.  Sandy Georgia  (Talk)  13:33, 10 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Well, I spent my morning tracking down copyvio I found when trying to add this, so I will be delayed in adding this new content. (When new editors make edits, we have to check them :( :( Sandy Georgia (Talk)  14:38, 10 April 2019 (UTC)

10Abr updates

 * ✅ (Except for NYT podcast) Sandy Georgia  (Talk)  20:36, 12 April 2019 (UTC)

Looks to have been some ripples after Gustavo Tarre's approval yesterday, so some developments and sources that can be usd across articles:
 * UN
 * Bloomberg - Pence demands the UN replace Maduro rep with a Guaidó one, says to him "With all due respect, Mr. Ambassador, you shouldn’t be here. You should return to Venezuela and tell Nicolas Maduro that his time is up. It’s time for him to go."; US giving extra $60 million in aid; Mike Pompeo about to embark on tour of Latin America
 * I feel like we should hold off a bit on this until we see which way the UN goes. Sandy Georgia  (Talk)  21:08, 10 April 2019 (UTC)


 * Finance and sanctions
 * Bloomberg 2 - IMF freezes Venezuela assets because no majority recognition for either president; asks for debate between member states on the situation; Maduro cut off after taking out ~$600 million in the last few months, Hausmann says the IMF has taken the move largely to "safeguard" the money until Maduro is gone; tension between IMF still acknowledging Maduro ambassador Simon Zerpa but Inter-American Dev Bank recognizing Guaidó's Hausmann.
 * I redid all of gold and reserves, since this issue is key to understanding the whole US sanction thing, and MaoGo mentioned it was hard to follow. Pres crisis Sandy Georgia (Talk)  00:13, 11 April 2019 (UTC)
 * It is quite hard to follow, yes. Kingsif (talk) 20:28, 11 April 2019 (UTC)


 * VOA - tensions from US to EU as EU don't to increase sanctions; EU nations reluctant to apply sanctions to a nation, despite evidence of Russia-aided corruption, but still considering tougher sanctions on individuals; Spain still receiving Venezuelan oil; other Spanish and Italian companies that operate in Venezuela and Cuba could be affected by large-scale sanctions - Spain says that the US asking them to apply tougher sanctions doesn't understand the interwoven relationship it shares with Latin America; "Russia is also building a base for cyber warfare on the Venezuelan island of Orchilla, according to the Pentagon"; Spain opposing US military intervention & supporting the Montevideo Group having more dialogues. Elliott Abrams has more meetings with Spanish and Portuguese representatives.
 * Pres crisis
 * Int'l sanctions
 * I didn't see mention of Russia-aided corruption of Italian companies affected by sanctions (?) Sandy Georgia  (Talk)  22:32, 10 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Ah, my mistake. There are Spanish and Italian companies, and Spanish ones are threatened. The way I typed it up conflated them. Kingsif (talk) 20:28, 11 April 2019 (UTC)


 * Aid
 * Al Jazeera - Maduro, for the first time, prepared to accept international aid after the meeting with the Red Cross, still denies there's a crisis in Venezuela; significant blackout in at least 20 states; emergency Washington Security Council meeting on Wednesday 10 April to discuss crisis.
 * NBC - Red Cross allowed access to prisons in Venezuela for first time since before Chávez died, ranging from prisons holding largely foreigners to prisons holding largely political prisoners to military detention centers and the basement of a counterintelligence HQ where suspected spies are held; Iris Varela says the delegates were invited so they could share the amazing quality of Venezuelan reform centers with the world
 * The source does say they gained access to Ramo Verde, but does not actually state that they gained access to the basement of a counterintelligence HQ; it mentions the Helicoide in a separate sentence, where it is not clear access was gained. We have to be careful here, as the article describes this as a PR push.  Sandy Georgia  (Talk)  21:35, 10 April 2019 (UTC)
 * The WP published an article about this too Red Cross regains entry to Venezuela jails, military prisons. --MaoGo (talk) 21:51, 10 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks,, I'm restarting my work now. I paid for a subscription to NYT, but have to get WAPO via my library's website (which means I have to wait 'til they have it, which is often the same day).  I just used my last free Bloomberg article for the month.  Would you be able to finish up the rest of the blackout stuff, both here and on the talk page there?  Sandy Georgia  (Talk)  22:34, 10 April 2019 (UTC)
 * I added some of the points to the blackout article from the blackout talk but I'm very busy today. Is there anything else to add? I will have to take my time also to hear the podcasts.--MaoGo (talk) 22:40, 10 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Done, Aid Sandy Georgia (Talk)  01:52, 11 April 2019 (UTC)


 * Blackout
 * NY Times - podcast on blackouts I haven't been able to listen to


 * Kingsif (talk) 17:53, 10 April 2019 (UTC)
 * I am home now, and am starting in on the financial/IMF and will also do the aid/Red Cross parts and sanctions; can someone else work on blackouts ? Sandy Georgia (Talk)  20:31, 10 April 2019 (UTC)

Great Patriotic Pole moved

 * ✅ Sandy Georgia  (Talk)  20:36, 12 April 2019 (UTC)

What is going on here?
 * Great Patriotic Pole (Gran Polo Patriótico Simon) was created by Rd232 in May 2012, sourced to Venezuelanalysis, used throughout Venezuelan election articles, and had that name through 11 April 2019
 * In External links, it lists GranPoloPatriotico.org.ve, which is hard to access, but the latest availalble at archive.org, 25 November 2018, shows Gran Polo Patriotico There does not seem to be a naming issue.
 * On 12 April, an editor with practically no editing history but demonstrating knowledge of Wikipedia
 * 1) Moved the article to Broad Front for the Homeland,
 * 2) based on a Telesur election article from 2018
 * 3) then edited out of existence the Great Patriotic Pole
 * 4) then removed Great Patriotic Pole from every most Wikipedia articles

In other words, Gran Polo Patriotico, which was decidedly a thing for Chavismo, is no longer a thing anywhere on Wikipedia. Instead of creating a new article for Maduro's new Union that has a new name, this editor completely removed the Union used by Chavez. Why? What this means is that trying to find any old information on Chavez's Gran Patriotic Pole just won't happen-- it's gone from Wikipedia. The fact that Chavismo had a Union called Great Patriotic Pole went ... poof ! And undoing all of this will take a lot of work. What's up with this? And I can't even get a link or ping to this editor's username to work. How can an editor make a non-linkable username? Sandy Georgia (Talk)  04:47, 12 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Actually, did not edit it out of every article, so that what one gets now is misleading. For example, at 2012 Venezuelan presidential election, this text is misleading because the link to GPP takes you to a coalition that did not exist when Chavez was supported by GPP.
 * Chávez was supported by the Great Patriotic Pole (GPP), an electoral coalition led by the United Socialist Party of Venezuela (Partido Socialista Unido de Venezuela, PSUV).
 * I am thinking the move needs to be undone, but what a lot of work. If Gran Polo Patriotico became the Broad Front for the Homeland, then the article should say so and there should be a source for that.  The lead would say Broad Front for the Homeland, formerly known as the Great Patriotic Pole.  If they are two separate coalitions, there should be two separate articles. Instead, Great Patriotic Pole is disappearing.  Articles about elections are being changed from GPP to Broad Front, when PSUV was referring to GPP in 2018. Sandy Georgia  (Talk)  05:14, 12 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Example: at National Assembly. Was it not GPP then?  Sandy Georgia  (Talk)  05:26, 12 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Woah, fishy stuff. So if I get it right, there was a GPP article and there is now a Simón Bolívar Broad Front for the Homeland, and everything now leads to the latter. The first one was erased. It is just a matter of renaming and linking or there some missing info? Is this (Clickable link) the user? --MaoGo (talk) 05:34, 12 April 2019 (UTC)
 * I don't know; I can't sort it out. We need to hear from others.  Did GPP become something else?  Someone may see something differently or know something I don't know.  I am tempted to un do everything, but undoing a move makes a mess, so ... beats the heck out of me. And what is with a user name that can't be pinged?  Sandy Georgia  (Talk)  05:37, 12 April 2019 (UTC)
 * We may write on the user talk or simply write their username here and that should work as a ping. User:SandyGeorgia. --MaoGo (talk) 06:02, 12 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Great Patriotic Pole is a valid name in English Interview: The Great Patriotic Pole (GPP) - How Thousands of Movements are Constructing their Revolutionary Organisation (Venezuelanalysis). --MaoGo (talk) 06:06, 12 April 2019 (UTC)
 * I found it in reliable sources (BBC: "designed to shore up support for Mr. Chavez" CBC: "a coalition of 17 parties formed in 2012 to support ... Chavez"); it was and is the valid name for the coalition that existed then, and during the "elections" for the constituent assembly.  That Maduro has a new coalition is another story for another article. Sandy Georgia  (Talk)  14:10, 12 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Possibly a misguided but well-intentioned user, though one who has never touched the topic before and gone to lengths to make their edits stick. Pinging User:=*= XHCN Quang Minh =*= care to explain? Kingsif (talk) 12:50, 12 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Same thoughts. This is the case of a different translation, since if it was the reform of the coalition it would be a headline, like the PSUV was it its time or more recently the Somos Venezuela Movement. --Jamez42 (talk) 14:00, 12 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Well, now I see what problem I was having with pinging-- that User: is part of the User name rather than the Wiki User. Very confusing user name; sorry I couldn't sort that at the end of a long day yesterday.  Sandy Georgia  (Talk)  14:08, 12 April 2019 (UTC)

So, the incorrect move cannot be undone; what next? I don't know where to get this fixed. Sandy Georgia (Talk)  14:39, 12 April 2019 (UTC)
 * A deletion of the redirect, the original title, is requested in order to move back the article. I understand normally a proposal has to be done, but since there seems to be a consensus and the user is not answering, it may be in order to do it directly. --Jamez42 (talk) 14:54, 12 April 2019 (UTC)
 * I don't think we can do it, because it's a move over redirect. I put in a request.  Meanwhile, the bot will keep reinstating the redirects.  Sandy Georgia  (Talk)  15:46, 12 April 2019 (UTC)
 * I moved your request at WP:RM/TR to the "Requests to revert undiscussed moves" section. Controversial undiscussed moves placed there are usually reverted within a few hours. Station1 (talk) 16:18, 12 April 2019 (UTC)

All corrected now; we may need to keep an eye out towards helping the Editor With The Name To Long To Type set up the new coalition correctly. I am not sure there are sources for that; have not looked. Telesur provides the English name, but what is the name in Spanish, and have RELIABLE sources mentioned it? Sandy Georgia (Talk)  18:45, 12 April 2019 (UTC)


 * Sorry for all of this, I was thinking that the title of the article is not the correct English translation.&#61;*&#61; XHCN Quang Minh &#61;*&#61; (talk) 11:48, 13 April 2019 (UTC)
 * I thought that Gran Polo Patriótico translated to Broad Front for the Homeland--&#61;*&#61; XHCN Quang Minh &#61;*&#61; (talk) 02:55, 14 April 2019 (UTC)
 * I considered teleSUR as an official outlet of the Venezuelan Government.--&#61;*&#61; XHCN Quang Minh &#61;*&#61; (talk) 02:57, 14 April 2019 (UTC)

Breaking news
Hugo Carvajal arrested in Spain; waiting for a good source to add to 2019 Venezuelan presidential crisis, International sanctions during the Venezuelan crisis, and his article. Sandy Georgia (Talk)  18:55, 12 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Here we go: Sandy Georgia (Talk)  19:19, 12 April 2019 (UTC)

✅ Sandy Georgia  (Talk)  20:05, 12 April 2019 (UTC)

Unsubstantiated/misleading citation of Goethe in "Flag of Venezuela" article at Flag of Venezuela
The substantial reference to Goethe in the en.wikipedia.org article on the "Flag of Venezuela" seems totally unsubstantiated. A single footnote after the Goethe quote references an unrelated pamphlet on Colombian naval history. I have checked multiple biographies of the flag's designer, General Francisco de Miranda, and none of these biographies (by William Spence Robertson, Karen Racine, Philip John Sherian, and Sumner Welles) mention that Miranda ever met Goethe. German-language resources, including Goethe's collected writings, his Farbenlehre, and the Geothe Institut's office in Caracas, also make no mention of Goethe having ever met Miranda. Significantly, neither the Spanish nor the German versions of this wikipedia article on Venezuela's flag mention Goethe. This seems to be a spurious meme in English-language social media. Goethe's involvement with the creation of the Venezuelan flag makes an entertaining story, but seems to be no more than an urban legend. (Librarian at San Francisco Public Library) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.102.74.232 (talk) 18:03, 6 March 2019 (UTC)
 * One would have to obtain that letter to Symeon Vorontsov. I do not know how to look for this kind of documents.--MaoGo (talk) 18:42, 6 March 2019 (UTC)
 * I just took a look a the source in the article (it was a dead link I just fixed it). The information comes from a journal of the armed forces of Colombia and the author is apparently Ricardo Silva Romero. Here is more information: Goethe and Miranda met on winter 1785 in Weimar, Miranda talks about it in a letter to a "count Woronzoff" in 1792. --MaoGo (talk) 19:45, 6 March 2019 (UTC)
 * A letter to Woronzoff, minister of Catherine II, dated 30 August 1792, seems to have existed as referenced in this text : --MaoGo (talk) 20:28, 6 March 2019 (UTC)

Political detentions
Crisis in Venezuela has no section on political detentions. Washington Post has a piece today (which I cannot link to because of damn paywall). Is anyone interested in setting up a section at the Crisis article? I can access that article later at my library, but not now ... title is "Political detentions rising in Venezuela". Sandy Georgia (Talk)  19:09, 12 April 2019 (UTC)
 * I csn suggest the section to be called "arbitrary detentions", so the scope is broader and to be careful of NPOV. However, I think the definition that NGOs use for "political prisoner" should be included. --Jamez42 (talk) 21:24, 12 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Saw this after I started the section, called it just "detentions" to keep it even broader, and we need to expand there to include prison conditions. Sandy Georgia  (Talk)  21:35, 12 April 2019 (UTC)

Been typing all day; could someone add Roberto Marrero to the list of political prisoners at Human rights in Venezuela? The WAPO source at Crisis in Venezuela can be used. Sandy Georgia (Talk)
 * ✅! --Jamez42 (talk) 10:37, 13 April 2019 (UTC)

For Media articles
lots of material here from Public Radio International. (Every time one of these comes up, I get to remind of the folly of merging away the Guaido challenge :) :)  But it was not worth the disagreement at that time, so away it went.  Sandy Georgia  (Talk)  20:41, 12 April 2019 (UTC)
 * you have an interest in media, would you be interested in starting El Pitazo, since they won the 2019 Ortega y Gasset Awards for best coverage ? Or anyone else ? (El Pais The report that won UTexas- a blog, but affiliated with University El Nacional Tal Cual)  Sandy Georgia  (Talk)  18:00, 13 April 2019 (UTC)
 * I'm terrible sorry for meddling, but now that it has been mentioned I'd like to suggest the same about VPItv, I read that they were awarded the Excellence Award in Journalism in Washington this year. --Jamez42 (talk) 21:48, 13 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Jamez, that's not meddling, that's helping us get organized ! Sandy Georgia  (Talk)  22:15, 13 April 2019 (UTC)
 * sorry I've been busy. I saw El Pitazo article, nice one. I do not want to start any article I won't be able to follow correctly. I'll pass on El Pitazo for the moment. If you want a list of articles that we would like to see, I give you a list:
 * El Pitazo
 * Espacio Público
 * SNTP (Venezuela)
 * IPYS Venezuela
 * VPITv
 * Anything else? --MaoGo (talk) 12:37, 14 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Got it ... I may not have time in the coming weeks, either; maybe we can interest ? Sandy Georgia  (Talk)  12:42, 14 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Did someone say media? I might be able to start some of those. Kingsif (talk) 13:25, 14 April 2019 (UTC)
 * I'd like to suggest VIVOplay, Caraota Digital and El Estímulo. Along with Efecto Cocuyo and El Pitazo, they're among the prominent independent outlets that have surfaced after the increasing censorship in television, and the former two have also given a lot of coverage to daily events, although I'm not sure if any of those have received awards and I'm concerned there might be notability objections. EVTV Miami is also a recognized outlet of the diaspora. Armando.info is the leading investigative journalist group that publishes about corruption in the country; like it is explained in the CLAP article, the government even forbid them to publish further about the food corruption network. Maduradas is quite popular too, but I'd describe it as sensasionalist. --Jamez42 (talk) 19:00, 14 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Full support to Efecto Cocuyo, they are doing an amazing work too. --MaoGo (talk) 19:13, 14 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Maduradas is one that my friends have deemed too sketchy to download the app for, and it likes to bring up spammy pop-ups, which is already a question; its over-use of ALLCAPS and exclamation points also makes it seem like a less reliable source; I've used one article from it for the El Pitazo page, because it used info from El Pitazo. Kingsif (talk) 19:14, 14 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Maduradas often publishes reliable news, their problem is mostly their sensationalist tone (precisely the ALLCAPS, material for clickbait) and gossips (which are usually true, but gossips nonetheless). Their Alexa rank is 250 in Venezuela. Oddly enough, there's a pro-government counterpart whose editorial line is almost identical to Maduradas', Lechuginos. --Jamez42 (talk) 19:59, 14 April 2019 (UTC)

Protests
New sanctions due out today will keep me busy; is anyone able to update 2019 Venezuelan protests? There are several sources on talk. Saludos, Sandy Georgia (Talk)  13:06, 17 April 2019 (UTC)

News
The article of Venezuelan crisis is going out of the main news. In_the_news/Candidates. --MaoGo (talk) 14:50, 18 April 2019 (UTC)

HispanTV RFC

 * Reliable sources/Noticeboard Sandy Georgia (Talk)  16:10, 19 April 2019 (UTC)

Merger discussion

 * U.S. intervention in Venezuela Sandy Georgia  (Talk)  15:14, 26 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Article somewhat cleaned up, still needs attention. Sandy Georgia  (Talk)  17:07, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

Move discussion
Work in progres: Media analysis at for the Sandy Georgia (Talk)  09:51, 6 May 2019 (UTC)
 * User:SandyGeorgia/sandbox2
 * Talk:2019 Venezuela uprising
 * woah good idea. It is somewhat ridiculous that we have come to this. Do you want some French sources? Or only update on English sources? --MaoGo (talk) 12:43, 6 May 2019 (UTC)
 * The Economist uses uprising: A failed uprising against Nicolás Maduro--MaoGo (talk) 12:54, 6 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Yes, some French sources (just one or two very high quality) would be good. And I haven't had time to look up the highest quality sources from Spain (El Pais, ABC, etc). And Wall Street Journal.  If anyone has time to make sure I have no mistakes in there, that would be good; I am out of time this morning.  Policy-based reasoning should drive naming decisions, not counting of votes.  Sandy Georgia  (Talk)  13:53, 6 May 2019 (UTC)
 * I tried to look at El País and their editor seems to avoid both words, at least I couldn't find anything in the main articles. --MaoGo (talk) 13:56, 6 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks! If you find any high quality, relevant source you could put it at the talk page of my sandbox; people are really starting to dredge up second-tier reliable sources, and I'd rather focus on very high quality.  The chart is already chunked up by sources I would never choose anyway.Sandy Georgia  (Talk)  14:05, 6 May 2019 (UTC)


 * Spanish articles.

While we're at it, I'll dump some sources from Spain here:


 * El Mundo, alzamiento and levantamiento
 * ABC, levantamiento and its verbs, uses "coup" in a quote of Maduro's ambassador in Spain. The outlet has a whole gallery titled Las imágenes del levantamiento.
 * La Vanguardia, levantamiento
 * 20 minutos has a whole category called Levantamiento contra Maduro, almost the exact name of the article in the Spanish Wikipedia.
 * El Confidencial, levantamiento
 * La Razón, levantamiento, uses revuelta in the title.

I'll also mention Infobae, from Argentina, which uses levantamiento and quotes Maduro saying "coup". --Jamez42 (talk) 15:28, 6 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Got connected, will add, thank you  Sandy Georgia  (Talk)  17:33, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

30 April
Reportando ! Nos organizemos ... Sandy Georgia (Talk)  13:35, 30 April 2019 (UTC)


 * Go ahead and edit here if you like User:ZiaLater/sandbox.ZiaLater ( talk ) 13:50, 30 April 2019 (UTC)
 * COOL BEANS ... title will be ? Sandy Georgia  (Talk)  13:52, 30 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Not sure. Infobox title is just a placeholder.ZiaLater ( talk ) 14:06, 30 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Uprising. Sandy Georgia  (Talk)  14:09, 30 April 2019 (UTC)
 * I am not able to access NetBlocks, can you? --MaoGo (talk) 13:52, 30 April 2019 (UTC)
 * NetBlocks is down for me too.ZiaLater ( talk ) 14:06, 30 April 2019 (UTC)
 * I have Instagram up but nothing is clear yet ... I think your article can go out, though ... just to gloat at the ITN people, who took us off the news prematurely :) :) Sandy Georgia  (Talk)  14:08, 30 April 2019 (UTC)

Just for some humor: Now there's an educated summary of the situation :) :) Sandy Georgia (Talk)  14:49, 30 April 2019 (UTC)
 * In the news/Candidates ROFL !!!
 * And looking more closely at the article, it appears to be more stagecraft and hyperbole. Guaido standing on the edge of some highway with a disgraced general bitching about Maduro, is that a coup? Sounds more like business as usual. --LaserLegs (talk) 14:29, 30 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Anyway, beefing up an explanation of the significance of La Carlota, and Lopez being en la calle might help the uninformed :) Sandy Georgia  (Talk)  15:15, 30 April 2019 (UTC)

Potential blurb
Need a blurb for ITN.ZiaLater ( talk ) 17:24, 30 April 2019 (UTC)
 * There is a proposed blurb there already, that is dreadful and POV. Sandy Georgia  (Talk)  17:28, 30 April 2019 (UTC)

Move discussion

 * Talk:2019 Venezuela uprising Sandy Georgia (Talk)  06:42, 2 May 2019 (UTC)