Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Video games/Archive 1

Archetypes

 * After some quick searching, here's some computer game articles that I believe could represent what other articles should look like:


 * Wolfenstein 3D
 * Counter-Strike
 * Deus Ex
 * LOOM
 * Pong
 * Space Invaders
 * --Mrwojo 05:11, 19 Feb 2004 (UTC)


 * May I also point to DOOM? :) Fredrik 00:42, 4 Apr 2004 (UTC)


 * Yeah, it's turned into a good article. ;) --Mrwojo 17:41, 4 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Standarization
There doesn't seem to be much standarization with video game entries. The matter of mod's makes it harder. How a mods orginal game are included, as well as the orginal game publisher or studio are all up in the air. Also should the console name be included for games that have multiple or slightly different versions on each box?

some formats that are used right now, or possible.

* Forgotten Hope (mod) * Forgoten Hope (game) * Forgotten Hope * Computer Game Forgotten Hope (PC) * Forgotten Hope Battlefield 1942 mod * EA Battlefield 1942 Forgotten Hope * Battlield 1942: Forgotten Hope * Electronic Arts Dice Battlefield 1942, mod Forgotten Hope

--> *Forgotten Hope, A Battlefield 1942 Mod

I think i favor just using whatever the game calls itself, which is pretty much whats happened anyway. The only problem being some games and mods have name conflicts. 'New World Order' ended up with 'New World Order (game)' for example.


 * My thoughts on these topics: When making an article, just use the name of the game/mod for the name of the article. Only use descriptors such as "(game)" when there is an article name-clash. If you do need a descriptor for a mod, I think "(game)" or "(computer game)" would be sufficient unless the name clashes with an existent computer game, then use "(mod)". Simply Forgotten Hope would be best.


 * With mods, I would consider them games just like the originals, but make it clear in the article that it is a mod of another game. Watch out not to use the word mod in a POV way though (I've heard people dismiss games for merely being a mod of a 'real' game).


 * If a game has been released for multiple platforms, then I would start by focusing on the main/first platform. For example: Splinter Cell is a video game that was released for the Xbox in 2002. Elsewhere in the article, mention other platforms it was on, release dates, changes made, etc. --Mrwojo 05:11, 19 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Policy suggestion
Policy suggestion: information along the lines of what specific moves you can do and what buttons you use for them should be moved to WikiBooks game guides. Fredrik 00:46, 4 Apr 2004 (UTC)


 * I agree, and maybe generalize the idea to mere lists of stats as well (a problem found StarCraft unit articles and sometimes Pokémon articles). Extensive strategy guides are better suited for WikiBooks as well, but some strategy is always useful for understanding the game. --Mrwojo 17:41, 4 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Join project
I'd be interested in joining the project, if only as a way to spread the load on the articles I've worked on. Many articles on older games are stubs, and filling them out is beyond my means (though I've tried my hand at Duck Hunt, Space Harrier, and 1942).

I've also been busy adding screenshots, mostly to the more famous older games, like Mortal Kombat, and to characters like Mega Man, Ryu or Koopa Troopa. I try to use PNGs (created myself) and thumbnails, but what should be the policy on this? With some of the characters, I've used tables, because the pics were already small. ~ FriedMilk 15:16, 14 Apr 2004 (UTC)


 * Go ahead and add yourself to the list! What you've said about images sounds fine; you should write a proposal policy. --Mrwojo 23:57, 16 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Merge video and computer game articles?
Central issue: should video game and computer game be merged into computer and video games? There has been discussion about this, but I don't think concensus was reached. Fredrik 00:32, 18 Apr 2004 (UTC)


 * Ah yes, that's a big one. --Mrwojo 01:50, 18 Apr 2004 (UTC)


 * No no no no no. We've been over this a hundred times, and it's like people are unable to comprehend the distinction. We have separate articles North America and United States for a reason, we don't make it North America and United States, "because, you know, the US is the part of North America that most people think of". Stan 15:55, 21 Apr 2004 (UTC)

"Video game" for articles that cover both
I propose that we use only "video game" in the title of articles that cover both computer and video games, and that "computer game" should only be used for computer games and strictly computer-game topics. Examples:
 * Timeline of video games
 * Video game industry
 * Boss (video game)
 * Civilization (computer game)
 * Modification (computer game) (hypothetically, if modification wasn't unambiguous)

The primary advantage of this is, of course, that it keeps titles short and that it's basically what we've done so far - so no need to rename old articles and force people to change their habits. People are also probably more likely to look for "video game". Fredrik 16:18, 21 Apr 2004 (UTC)


 * I agree with you Fredrik. The hierarchy could then be:


 * Video Games
 * Console Games (Nes, Snes, PSX, Xbox etc.)
 * Arcade Games
 * Computer Games

With the scope of this project being all video games. Perhaps the project name should be changed to Video and Computer games then to make Computer games subordinate to the larger concept of video games. --ShaunMacPherson 15:51, 23 Apr 2004 (UTC)


 * Well, the computer gamers visiting Wikipedia will be totally contemptuous; call someone who plays The Operational Art of War a "video gamer" and he'll likely bust a tactical nuke over your head... :-) There are non-visual computer games and video games based on raw electronics instead of computing devices, so the two categories are not the same. (It's remarkable that anybody would have a tough time grasping the distinction.) Stan 21:28, 23 Apr 2004 (UTC)


 * That game remains a computer game specifically, we're just saying that the more general subjects relating to both computer and video games should be grouped under video games. Fredrik 15:32, 24 Apr 2004 (UTC)

-- Video Game Standard --


 * Video Games
 * Console Games (Nes, Snes, PSX, Xbox etc.)
 * Arcade Games
 * Computer Games

This is the hierarchy i think we should do. Games that are released under more then one platform should be called Doom (videogame). If doom was released only for the computer then Doom (computer game). Only for SNES: Doom (console game).

If there is only one Doom (on wikipedia) then I think we should just call it Doom for now.

Eventually if *ALOT* of material is presented for multirelease games i.e. ( Doom (videogame) ) we can simply then make ( Doom (computer game) ) and ( Doom (console game) ) with the relevant information in each section if it is too big / different to fit in Doom (video game). --ShaunMacPherson 17:01, 27 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Project template
I've also created a template for this project, we will have to add Type to the list to differentiate between computer, arcade and console games. Tell me what you think, and what catagories need to be added. Most projects have a template like this to organize it.

--ShaunMacPherson 15:53, 23 Apr 2004 (UTC)


 * I like it except for some incorrect wikilinks. I took your model and revised it.  I also added some entries.  Batting it around is what you had in mind, isn't it? Look at the entry on MobyGames.  They have a nice format for stuff they include for every article (at the top). Perhaps we could use it as a model for our template.


 * Also, since CPU/Graphics/Sound and that kind of stuff only applies to computer games (actually, only to PC games), let's make that another table that we append only for PC games. These are all just suggestions of course.


 * Shawn, I commented out your first table because both were cluttering up the page. But your idea is fantastic and your first model was a great starting place.  Lastly, we should probably use the new wiki-markup for tables instead of good ol' HTML.  Anyone else want to muck with it? &mdash;Frecklefoot 17:40, Apr 23, 2004 (UTC)


 * One more thing (sort of OT): I noticed that in MobyGames's template, they have genre and then perspective. Maybe adopting something like that will help us better categorize these games? &mdash;Frecklefoot 17:48, Apr 23, 2004 (UTC)


 * Condensed it a bit, I think this is better and more manageable. Fredrik 19:28, 23 Apr 2004 (UTC)


 * Great work Frecklefoot! I was trying yesterday to say how excellent your work was but I couldn't comment here, someone must have been busy at work editing this page :).


 * I think we should also agree on a colour, i was thinking blue. Gray was reserved for something else, I think soundtracks in the music area.  I personally like blue, purple, or red :).  Yellow too, anything but gray hehe.


 * Also we should clean up the main wikipedia computer page, and put standards and the new template there, my old template can be removed.


 * I will copy the moby games lists soon too, im working on the list of games section here ( List of computer and video games, we should coordinate with them too. --ShaunMacPherson 15:14, 24 Apr 2004 (UTC)


 * I changed it from blue to grey, actually. Didn't remember it as being used. There's though a problem with that there are lots of categories that want their own tables, we might be running out of separable colors soon... Fredrik 15:25, 24 Apr 2004 (UTC)


 * I did some editing, I like the seperation bar that Freckelfoot had for system requirements but I agree that it needed to be squished a bit. Also is there away to balance the cell sizes, i find this table here has the left squished a little bit.  Here is a place where you can put templates: Template --ShaunMacPherson 15:59, 24 Apr 2004 (UTC)


 * And I prefer my compact version :/ Fredrik 14:42, 26 Apr 2004 (UTC)


 * Your version has grown on me a little, we can seperate it out and put the system requirements in its own section. I think platform should be moved up though, its very important.  Can you also implement the copyright notice that is in Frecklefoot's version?  I will edit it around later if you are too busy. --ShaunMacPherson 17:01, 27 Apr 2004 (UTC)


 * I think platform and input should be moved up over the system requirements header. It would make the template easier to edit for console games. Of course, most console games just use the standard pad, but some make use of perpherals. Also, perhaps we could model ourselves after the Bio taxoboxes and use different shades of color for arcade, console, and computer games? ~ FriedMilk 04:49, 30 Apr 2004 (UTC)



The "System Requirements" section seems very difficult to fill in accurately and meaningfully for any game that had more than one release. Stan 05:47, 28 Apr 2004 (UTC)


 * We're discussing this problem at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Computer and Video Games/Template/. Fredrik 07:00, 28 Apr 2004 (UTC)


 * I've decided to go ahead and use what we've got since no one seems interested anymore. Please post comments if you are interested in the template.    &mdash; Frecklefoot | Talk 20:19, Jul 15, 2004 (UTC)


 * From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Computer_and_Video_Games/Template/#Platforms: Could you please stop using PC, Mac, Amiga and others as platforms, they're not, these games run on Windows, DOS, Mac OS, Mac OS X, Amiga OS and not on the bare machines, there are many other operating systems avalible for these systems and using PC as a plaform name does not make sense like using N64. -- Ævar Arnfjörð [ Bjarmason]   20:39, 2004 Sep 8 (UTC)


 * Actually, when a company releases a game for a "platform" most of the time it's considered hardware. The hardware architecture of a NES, SNES, C64, or Apple II is what the game relies on for operation, input, memory, etc.  The OS is more of a system requirement, such as "PC with DOS", "PC with Windows 95 or higher", "PC with DirectX 8.0 or higher," because the OS is running on specified hardware just like the game is.  The game needs both in order to run.  The table can include both hardware and software requirements.  (Ignore emulation)  Ihavenolife

John Crawford's Infobox
JohnCrawford posted his idea for the project template on the main project page. I've moved what he posted here since we've discussed it ad nausiem at the WikiProject Computer and Video Games/Template/ and Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Computer and Video Games/Template/. Any further discussion on the subject should go there. IMHO, I like the one(s) we came up with better, but that is just me. &mdash; Frecklefoot | Talk 14:26, Aug 4, 2004 (UTC)

Infobox
For an example, see Theme Hospital.

 Name of game 130px|center Image of the game's installation CD front cover

This infobox is copied from Yale University. Colors can be changed, but the style is OK.

Infobox's code
 Name of game 130px|center Image of the game's installation CD front cover

130px|center Image of an ingame screenshot of the game

Classification of Video Game Console Eras by Bits
It posted this in Talk:128-bit era, and it was suggested that I post it here for further discussion. So here it is, with additions in brackets:

"Is there any such thing as the "128-bit era?" The Nintendo Gamecube uses a 32-bit implementation of the PPC architecture, and the Microsoft X-Box runs on a 733MHz Pentium !!! Coppermine, a 32-x86 implementation [the Pentium !!! actually has a 36-bit memory address for 64GB physical memory, but only 4GB virtual, PAE is required to access above this in 4GB segmented chunks, and still has 32-bit integer registers, ]. The only 128-bit console currently in production is the Sony Playstation 2, which is also the least powerful, hardware-wise, of the three consoles currently on the market. The Sega Dreamcast was 128-bit, but left the scene after a mere 2 years. 64-bit consoles can be inferior to 32-bit consoles, and vice versa. Instead of grouping eras by "bit," it would be more realistic consoles were grouped by market competition at the time. An abbreviated example would be "SNES and Genesis," "Sony Playstation and Sega Saturn," "Nintendo 64 and Sony Playstation," "X-Box, Gamecube and PS2." Until memory in a console is beyond 4GB, 32-bit is quite sufficient [excepting such files as contiguous databases beyond 4GB, which are more common in datacenters]. The X-Box, the most capable of the consoles, has only 64MB of RAM and as mentioned previously, is 32-bit [contrast to the N64, 64-bit]. The next move in the console market will be from mostly 32-bit (X-Box and Gamecube) to 64-bit, not to/from 128-bit to the ludicrious 256-bit."

Also, perhaps video game systems could be grouped by generation, as the Pentium is 5th gen, P6 core is 6th gen, etc? I'd think the Nintendo would be third-gen, as first-gen would be pong-like systems, and second gen would be systems such as the ColecoVision or Atari 2600. Could insert more generations as necessary.

Sorry about the Doom boxart, unsure how to push it back up to it's parent article.

MSTCrow 19:15, May 1, 2004 (UTC)


 * This one is tricky. The gaming magazines I read growing up spoke of the 8-bit, 16-bit, and 32-bit era (or Next Gen). That was the language I saw in EGM, GamePro, Nintendo Power, Gamefan, etc. and I'm certainly not the only one who read them! They probably have most common usage on their side.


 * However, like you said, those terms are inaccurate. 16-bit systems existed alongside the supposed 8-bit era, and "Next Gen" is pretty amorphous. "128 bit era" would seem like the best fit for the present generation, but it's clearly not. Market competition seems like a klunky solution, though, and generations could be confusing if you don't provide any other information for context. At worse, we could add the dates in parenthesis. Then again, we could decide on a better name for the current generation and leave the rather established "bit" terminology alone, though that's only a partial solution. Just because it's established doesn't mean it's any good. ~ FriedMilk 02:48, 3 May 2004 (UTC)


 * Come to think of it, this doesn't even allow for handheld systems. The Gameboy Advance runs a 32-bit ARM at 16.8MHz; the Tapwave Zodiac uses a 32-bit Motorola® i.MX1™ ARM9 processor (200 MHz).  Same bits, drastically different abilities.  The GBA is a bare-bones gaming only system 240x160 15-bit screen, while the Zodiac is fully functional Palm OS based PDA, 480x320 16-bit screen, and an ATI ATI® Imageon™ W4200 graphics accelerator (with 8MB dedicated SDRAM).  Perhaps the PS1 and N64 should be "Next-Gen," while the PS2, Gamecube, X-Box, etc. and future console products should be "X-Gen?"  Bits have given way to a focus on architecture, so perhaps the last "bit" era was the 16-bit wars?  For mobile gaming, are we seeing a move from pure play to PDAs that are also great for gaming, and what about the phone/gaming Nokia N-Gage?  While not a huge market success, there is a revised model being released, and networking gaming could be a huge thing in the mobile gaming arena too, right?  Should we classify by "pure gaming," "mixed use," and "networked?"


 * MSTCrow 05:48, May 3, 2004 (UTC)

Tapwave Zodiac
Wrote up the Tapwave Zodiac entry. Paraprhased the hardware specs as much as possible to avoid copyright violation. Are hardware specs lists copyrighted? As is first full entry for me, appreciate any input. Thanks.

MSTCrow 06:18, May 3, 2004 (UTC)


 * No, lists cannot be copyrighted. That is why we can lift filmographies directly from the IMDb without any copyright haggles.  Lists are merely rolls of information and are not creative. &mdash;Frecklefoot 16:19, May 3, 2004 (UTC)


 * That is exactly right. As well facts and figures cannot be copyrighted as well. :) --ShaunMacPherson 14:17, 18 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Yu Suzuki
The article needs some NPOVing. I don't dispute that he's a great man, but as of now, the article is falling over itself with praise for him. ~ FriedMilk 15:34, 2004 Jun 19 (UTC)


 * How's that? Tried a little bit, it was highly POV and some game descriptions were too long.  It could be condensed even more, such as with the game descriptions: a few words should suffice and most of the descriptions could go in an article on the game itself.  Could use some cleaning up now.   &mdash; Frecklefoot | Talk 16:25, Aug 4, 2004 (UTC)

Dead project?
Man, this project seems dead. No activity, no improvements. :-( For a while, we were having a lively discussion on the proposed template, but that has died out. I think I scared everyone off once I started making radical changes.  I'd like to pick that up again and come up with a template we can all agree on.  Anyone interested in picking up on this again?  I have some ideas that might make it a whole lot easier (such as, a special template for "old" computer games, a similar but seperate one for PC games, etc.).  Please let me know! :-)   &mdash; Frecklefoot | Talk 16:33, Aug 4, 2004 (UTC)
 * I like the idea of a template. But I'll leave the details to you experts. I'm practically a one-author man, I'm afraid. Not many of us 63-year-olds still "waste" time with Colonization (game) and Sid's other earlies. Robin Patterson 06:13, 12 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Arcade game project
Anyone interested in starting an arcade game project? I've been writing articles on several classic arcade games and I think I have it down to a formula. A template for such games would be much easier to develop than the one for computer and video games. Please let me know if you are interested and we can get moving! :-D

Please look here for a list of arcade game articles I've written or rewritten. See a pattern? :-)  &mdash; Frecklefoot | Talk 16:37, Aug 4, 2004 (UTC)


 * Call me reckless, but I went ahead and started this project. Amble on over to WikiProject Arcade Games if you're interested.   &mdash; Frecklefoot | Talk 17:07, Aug 10, 2004 (UTC)

Rock the vote!
We are voting on which template to use as the standard for computer and video games. It doesn't look like we can just have one template to fit all computer and video games, but we can have ones that are similar to maintain consistency. So far, Frecklefoot loses his mind is the preferred template for games released on multiple computer platforms with seperate tables for each version instead of the combined one.

Template 7 (or 7a) is preferred for games released on just one computer platform (and any number of console platforms). Please cast your vote and any additional comments you may have. Once a decision has been made, we'll post the template(s) on the main page. &mdash; Frecklefoot | Talk 14:06, Aug 6, 2004 (UTC)


 * I vote for Frecklefoot's loses his mind version. We'll use that as a standard, and if worse comes to worse change it if something better comes along (which I dont think will happen).  :) --ShaunMacPherson 05:47, 7 Aug 2004 (UTC)


 * Just to represent my vote in the proper place, I say 7a for single versions and FLHM (Frecklefoot Loses His Mind) for multiple versions - DrakeCaiman 02:17, Aug 8, 2004 (UTC)


 * Frecklefoot loses his mind and Template 7a get my votes. --Mrwojo 20:31, 8 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Any objection to adding the code for the infoboxes to the main project page then? &mdash; Frecklefoot | Talk 17:07, Aug 10, 2004 (UTC)


 * Im pretty much against the use of template tables, as I prefer customized articles. If we are going to have them. frecklefoots isn't bad though. Greyengine5 06:02, 2004 Aug 12 (UTC)

You object? I had no idea anyone objected to the use of a (more or less) standardized infobox.


 * No no I don't obect! If someone want to use infoboxes such as yours its fine. I meant that personally Im not to into infoboxes, as there usually pretty awfull looking. Although yours is pretty nice (its grown on me too) so I would probably consider it for my own use as well. I was being overly subtle there and trying to say, yes put it there- 'its not to bad', but I have my reservations. I was operating under the undemocratic premise that you just do it regardless. Anyway sorry for the misunderstanding and nice job on your design, I hope people use it over the other designs. Greyengine5 04:19, 2004 Aug 20 (UTC)


 * Why don't we just put a link to the different infoboxes' styles so that editors choose which one to use? Voting is absurd when these are just guidelines. Simply put up a recommendation of what points should at least be present in infoboxes &mdash; like for example Publisher, Release date, Genre, etc.   &mdash;John | Talk 21:39, Aug 12, 2004 (UTC)

Okay, okay. I guess I got a little carried away with trying to be democratic. You're right--these are just guidelines and don't have to be ahered to. I'll post links to the different styles sometime in the near future. &mdash; Frecklefoot | Talk 17:31, Aug 19, 2004 (UTC)


 * Awesome job anyways man. =)   &mdash;John | Talk 22:57, Aug 19, 2004 (UTC)

Gee, thanks. :-) But I didn't design it all myself--it was a group effort.  I actually used the design (as a jumping off point) for the infobox in the WikiProject Arcade Games. If anyone is interested, I just inserted the infobox in an article I create a long time ago, SunDog: Frozen Legacy.   &mdash; Frecklefoot | Talk 14:53, Aug 20, 2004 (UTC)

datebase/profile link, its been suggested right?
You know how the movie infobox has a iMDB link and the TV show infobox has a TV.com summary link shouldn't there be one for a video game infobox like its Gamespot gamespace or IGN profile. I know its had to have been talked about before...Coasttocoast 03:19, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

I made a template (how might you improve it?)
Hello, I made a template for the racing simulations by Papyrus Design Group. I nicked the basic format from the Maxis/SimUniverse template.

Can you think of any ways to improve this template?

I'm going to make it a project to add information on as many of these sims as possible, as racing simulations are sort of my forte.

-- Guroadrunner 10:45, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Infobox: Website
Many other infoboxes have an Official Website as a field, it only makes sense to have the same for videogames. Thoughts? SaintDaveUK (talk) 21:01, 2 June 2010 (UTC)