Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Video games/Archive 171

New Articles (July 24 to July 30)
A listing of all articles newly added to the Video Games Wikiproject (regardless of creation date). Generated by v3.15 of the RecentVGArticles script and posted by PresN. Bug reports and feature requests are appreciated. -- Pres N  14:07, 31 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Articles deleted/removed: Draft:Battlefield India Community, Draft:New Cycle (game), Draft:Sölvi Hrafn Pétursson, Draft:Astro Colony, Draft:Hooked on You: A Dead by Daylight Dating Sim, Draft:Stormind Games, Draft:Johnson Yeh, Lego Junkbot, Draft:Matthew Dawkins (author), Draft:Pavlov VR, Draft:The Elder Scrolls Discord, Big Ballers VR, FCIV.NET Freeciv 3D version
 * Articles redirected: Atoli, Stereotypes in Punch-Out!!, Gravemind, Johnny Turbo, Edax (computing), Helen Hindpere, Power Armor (Fallout), Etna (Disgaea), List of HP3000 games, Metroid (fictional species), Ovan, Rock Band Mobile, Blaze Fielding, Cyborg Justice, My Little Pony: Pinkie Pie's Party, Project Siren, Clank (Ratchet & Clank), Massively multiplayer online first-person shooter game, Mipha, Toriel, God (MUD), Immortal (MUD), Wizard (MUD)
 * Categories deleted/removed: MU* servers, MUD texts, Video games scored by Ian Taylor
 * Templates deleted/removed: Ar tonelico, Atelier series
 * New categories: Devil May Cry video games —, Portal (series) fangames —  , Games Farm games —  , Hipster Whale games —  , Two Tribes (company) games —  , Bend Studio games —  , Half-Life (series) fangames —  , King's Quest fangames —  , Touhou Project fangames —  , ZootFly games —  , Facepunch Studios games —  , Make Software games —  , Rockfish Games games —  , Super Happy Fun Fun games —  , Netflix games —
 * New templates: Prehistorik —

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As a note, Yuuki (Sword Art Online) and all the other SAO character articles are included in the video games project seemingly because the manga/anime takes place in an MMO, rather than because they're characters in an actual video game. Which is fine, but: I just added them to the Characters taskforce, as they're... characters tagged for the video games project, and now I'm second-guessing myself for if the task force would include them. -- Pres N  14:14, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Since there's an entire SOA video game subseries/alt universe thing featuring the characters, and they're IMO a somewhat special case given the sci-fi MMO storyline, I think they could qualify. --ProtoDrake (talk) 14:20, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I think we were still trying to figure out the proper scope of stuff there, mainly making sure it covered only characters with some video game appearances (so, say the fake President of Sony from those ads wouldn't quite count there). They do seem to appear in video games though, so that might be fine, do these even count for notability? Czar seemed to bring up some issues regarding them on the talk pages.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 18:28, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

CS2 discussion

 * This doesn't show up in the list, but Counter-Strike 2 was created off a redirect a couple days ago, and I don't think it needs to be its own article right now (and possibly ever--seems more likely CSGO gets moved there). Alyo  (chat·edits) 14:19, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Draft:Counter-Strike 2 got rejected numerous times. They did an end run around it and created it anyway. There's just a massive amount of fans wanting to make an article, so I fear it will be nearly impossible to prevent it from being a thing unless it somehow gets protected. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 14:26, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I agree with Zxcvbnm for cases like CS 2, the next COD game, etc. CRYSTALBALL is fine and all but sometimes you're fighting a losing battle in the name of guidelines that less experienced editors don't even know exists. Something like CS2 or the next CoD game is almost never going to NOT be notable. In the rare case where it somehow does evaporate, we can always do an AFD later. Don't fight the inevitable. CS2, as an update to CSGO versus a 100% true standalone release, may fall into a valley similar to OW vs OW2. -- ferret (talk) 14:50, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Oh absolutely, I think the issue isn't so much that CS2 won't be notable--I agree it already is--I just don't think it's actually a "different game" for the purposes of a separate wikipedia article (yet). The OW comparison is an interesting one though. Alyo  (chat·edits) 15:44, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I think that even if the gameplay is similar, the way it's culturally "seen" as a new game can still make it a distinct entity. For example, Overwatch 2 led to a massive increase in players for a game that had been slowly dying for years, even though it had largely the same gameplay and content besides a tweak in the amount of players on a team and some new maps. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 16:12, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
 * We're not really hapless here—nothing's stopping us from taking the <1 paragraph of relevant info, sticking it in a "sequel" section on the main CS page, and then preventing the redirect from being modified. We can easily stop people from creating crystal ball game articles if we want, the same way the Film project has successfully done it for years. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs  talk 18:22, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I will say that I do think the subject is already notable enough to be it's own article, but holy hell that article is garbage. It was rejected so many times for a reason and there is plenty of sources out there that detail what's coming in CS2, or what has been done so far. I don't think that article should even be Start-class. NegativeMP1 (talk) 19:02, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Good Lord, I came here to create this specific discussion. We actually had this very same discussion in March, so I'd like to ping -- I know some of you have returned for this very discussion, but better safe than sorry. The way I see it, we now have the notability to keep the article, yet we need to fix all the mentions to designate it as a comprehensive update like Grand Theft Auto Online, rather than a "sequel".  BOTTO ( T • C ) 14:53, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Likewise,, as you created the article, it would be advantageous for you to join the discussion.  BOTTO ( T • C ) 14:54, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
 * re I think the annoying CRYSTAL-ish thing here is that the game just simply isn't out yet, so we can't actually make this determination with complete confidence--particularly w/r/t how Valve presents it and how the media and reviews are going to cover it. I think my preferred outcome here is just that CS2 remains a redirect until the update is actually out later this year, and then we can make a clean decision based on sources and the release description. Anything we decide before that is, again, somewhat CRYSTAL imo.  Alyo  (chat·edits) 15:35, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
 * By that logic, having articles for upcoming games like Super Mario Bros. Wonder is also in violation of CRYSTAL. QuicoleJR (talk) 15:40, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Err, no, we know that SMBW is a completely new, standalone game with a very clear status in relationship to the series. The same cannot be said for CS2 (yet). To this point, compare the actual content of the articles for SMBW (announcement, release date, status as first sidescroller Mario game in a while) and CS2 (no sources that call it a new separate game, "rumors", "replacement", "migration", etc). We don't actually have enough verified sourcing to describe this game accurately beyond what is at Counter-Strike:_Global_Offensive. Alyo  (chat·edits</b>) 15:51, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
 * So can we get a support/oppose on just redirecting to a subsection on the Counterstrike article until there's enough for a real article? Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs  talk 15:56, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Support redirect as WP:TOOSOON. A redirect to a section of a larger and more mature article that properly provides the context for this upgrade/update/overhaul thing(?) serves a clear educational purpose. A barebones stub about an unreleased thing does not. Axem Titanium (talk) 16:16, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Per the overwhelming support for a redirect, I'm redirecting the Counter-Strike 2 to the Counter-Strike series article right now. NegativeMP1 (talk) 22:39, 6 August 2023 (UTC)


 * If it's a new game version with a new name why does it even matter at all if it is a replacement or an upgrade CSGO page will always be there Baratiiman (talk) 16:38, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Support redirect/merge, for now - I think the subject can stand on its own right now, but nobody including RSes are aware what CS2 even is (upgrade, new game, or etc.) and the way the article is written and how it came to be is just bad. So while the sources exist, if they don't even know what it is, the articles mere existence would be WP:CRYSTALBALL NegativeMP1 (talk) 16:23, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose merge, but rewrite: The subject is notable, but the article is poorly written and inaccurate; it makes a series of assumptions that haven't been even been clarified yet, such as that Counter-Strike 2 is a major installment, when all sources refer to it as an update.  BOTTO ( T • C ) 16:27, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Support redirect: I have re-examined the article and I've concluded that it is not ready for inclusion. Almost every granule of information has its own section, including the recent announcement that Valve would be changing regulations for tournaments -- really, that needs a section? Let's wait.  BOTTO ( T • C ) 00:33, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Support redirect Agree with Axem above. There's definitely room for an article later on but I think this makes much more sense as a section in an already existing article. Nomader  ( talk ) 17:18, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Support redirect per above --M asem (t) 17:52, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Redirect For the same reason the draft was rejected to begin with. WP:TOOSOON. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 17:53, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Redirect For the same reason the draft was rejected to begin with. WP:TOOSOON. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 17:53, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

Gloria Victus
Anyone here know anything about this MMORPG? Rock Paper Shotgun reviewed it in 2019 while it was still in early access, and it was apparently popular on release in 2023. Gamepressure says it was made by a Polish developer, so it's probably got some coverage in Polish sources. The problem is that Google Translate doesn't do a great job of translating them. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 22:42, 6 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Metacritic lists a bunch of reviews from various reliable outlets, certainly enough for a standalone article. Edit: Hmm, it may actually be a spinoff of the MMO. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 23:15, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Confusingly, the lion's share of the reliable source coverage is for a different spinoff of the game, and the only reliably sourced reviews of the actual MMO seem to be from RPS. Certainly a unique situation. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 23:25, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

New Articles (July 31 to August 6)
A listing of all articles newly added to the Video Games Wikiproject (regardless of creation date). Generated by v3.15 of the RecentVGArticles script and posted by PresN. Bug reports and feature requests are appreciated. -- Pres N  14:55, 7 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Articles deleted/removed: Draft:Gloria Victis: Medieval MMORPG, Cafu Engine, Draft:Assassin's Creed Infinity, Draft:Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time Remake (2022 video game), Superbiz, Draft:The Black Talon, Draft:Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Mobile, Draft:Valkyrie Entertainment, Draft:Have a Nice Death, Draft:The Legend of Dark Witch: Chronicle 2D Act, Draft:Arena Breakout, Draft:Everplant, Draft:Sega All-Stars, Draft:Wanaka Farm, Draft:Action Square, Draft:Fight Crab
 * Articles redirected: Beyond the Grave (Gungrave), MX vs. ATV: On the Edge, Yuuki (Sword Art Online), Circus Baby, Kite (.hack), Oddity (video game), Nintendo Switch Lite
 * New categories: 704Games games —, Dlala Studios games —  , Electric Dreams Software games —  , Foursfield games —  , Free Fall Associates games —  , Noise Factory games —  , Piranha Bytes games —  , QUByte Interactive games —  , Studio Élan games —  , Technopop (developer) games —  , Prime Matter games —  , Shōeisha games —  , Ronimo Games games —  , Vivendi Games games —  , Keen Games games —
 * New templates: 2023 Pokémon World Championships —, Gust —

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Thoughts on whether Draft:List of video games ranked by Metacritic score should even be a thing?
I feel like it violates WP:NOTMIRROR as for the most part it just calculates the highest Metascores as it might if you used the Metacritic search function. Therefore, my first thought is to reject as "contrary to the purpose of Wikipedia" but I would like others' input into whether it is warranted. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 16:40, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
 * That list feels not only difficult to keep up to date, but weirdly subjective too: listing just the top 30, but the title implies far more? And as you pointed out it's just echoing what the site says with no additional commentary and is just mirroring metacritic's data. I'd say no.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 16:43, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Between the other places we track best games - eg once on each 2022 in video games - and the list of video games considered the best, this is just unneeded. M asem (t) 17:31, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Strongly opposed to this being a Wikipedia article. That's for MC to host, not us. Sergecross73   msg me  17:34, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Given the unanimous "hell no" I have rejected the draft for going against WP:NOT. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 17:47, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I disagree with each the points listed. First, my list wouldn’t be hard to maintain as it would only have to update with each new yearly releases, the same way, for example, this list of Rotten films with a 100% rating is.
 * Second, my list is intended to cover all games designated as a ‘must-play’ by Metacritic. It already incorporates 100 games, but obviously, there’s more to add. There is already a list for such games released in 2022, so why not have a list that encompasses ALL yearly releases? As Metacritic is very widely used in the gaming industry, I’ll argue it is very much of interest to have such a list. Why should someone have to switch from year to year - on a page most people wouldn’t think to go if they were looking for that - when they can get it all from one page?
 * Third, my list significantly differs from Metacritic’s. If you look at Metacritic’s #100 ranked game on their official list, the game listed on that spot is Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare. That game is ranked #54 on my list, because it excludes multiple duplicate versions of the same game. That is a difference of nearly 50 spots. The game ranked at #100, the original Splinter Cell, on my list is listed at #161 on Metacritic’s, a difference of 61 spots. Therefore, my list is quite different from Metacritic’s and those difference only grow with as the list gets bigger. TheCelebrinator (talk) 18:08, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
 * So it's not a "List of video games ranked by Metacritic" score its a "List of video games ranked by single best Metacritic score regardless of platform"? That would be heading into WP:OR territory, with the cherry picking of only certain parts of a Metacritic score. - X201 (talk) 18:17, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
 * There is no ‘cherry-picking’ as that implies I would exclude something that would significantly change the data or information presented, but regardless of other Metascores on other platforms, all the games listed on my list are designated as ‘must-plays’ by Metacritic, which is what the article’s focus is on. I fail to see how that is ‘original research.’
 * I agree the title should be changed. It should more accurately read ‘List of video games listed as “must-play” by Metacritic’ and I’d change it if I could change the title of the draft. TheCelebrinator (talk) 18:23, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Edit: I have moved and renamed the page to a more accurate title, thus removing the ambiguity. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TheCelebrinator (talk • contribs) 18:39, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
 * So, it remains a list of Metacritic games with a score of over 90, i.e. identical to their Best Games of All Time list to but with duplicates across platforms removed? This is still WP:MIRROR. ~Cheers, Ten  Ton  Parasol  21:40, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
 * You should focus your efforts elsewhere. We are not "Metacritic Wiki", we're Wikipedia. That is MC's content to host, not ours. Everyone is correctly citing MIRROR to you. Sergecross73   msg me  22:05, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
 * WP:MIRROR would imply that it's a carbon-copy ("copy exactly" is the wording used) or otherwise very much identical to a list that already exists elsewehere, but it's not. It's very much different, both in terms of flow and content, and since we already have a list like this for specific years, ie: 2022, it would make sense to have a list incorporating every year.
 * And unlike Metacritic's list, which lists literally every game on its website, my list has a specific cut-off point of 90, so it's very much a unique list. Using another list as a reference point does not make it WP:MIRROR. What I fail to see is why is such a list OK for specific years, but not for all-time? TheCelebrinator (talk) 22:21, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't agree that removing the duplicates is sufficient enough to say it's not very much identical to the Metacritic list, and the cut-off at 90 isn't really sufficient to differentiate it as a separate list. On top of that, the list on each year article is different bc it's not a stand-alone list—it's contextualizing the topic of that specific year in video games—thus does not need to prove notability or value for itself as a stand-alone subject. ~Cheers, Ten  Ton  Parasol  22:39, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Take a look at my list, which stops at #101 for now, and look at Metacritic's, which has that game (Quake III if you're wondering) at #163 on their list. That's over 60 spots worth of difference. That's a huge difference. We're not just talking a spot or two's worth of difference.
 * As for contextualizing the list, it serves to compliment this list about the best games ever by adding another POV on that topic. BTW, I have actually pointed out a parallel between what I'm proposing and what's already on Wikipedia with its ' best films' list and RT down below. We should follow that precedent. TheCelebrinator (talk) 22:51, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
 * 90% certain this or something like it has been to AFD recentlyish. -- ferret (talk) 21:36, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
 * The most I could see this being would be as a part of List of video games considered the best, and even then I'm opposed to that. NegativeMP1 (talk) 22:36, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
 * We could have a list that compliments that one. Here's an example: this list about the best movies of all time, at the very bottom, links to this list which deals with movies that have scored 100% on Rotten Tomatoes. Likewise, we could have a list that shows all games with 'must-play' designation (90+ score) on Metacritic. It's not meant to be an 'objective' ranking of games (reviews are all subjective) but rather add another insight to what are considered some of the greatest games ever. TheCelebrinator (talk) 22:45, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Boy, I sure wish we had a Wikipedia-wide guideline for when a list was appropriate! We could call it... WP:LISTN, and not have to hash out each time if the list deserves to exist. Which says: "Notability of lists (whether titled as "List of Xs" or "Xs") is based on the group. One accepted reason why a list topic is considered notable is if it has been discussed as a group or set by independent reliable sources, per the above guidelines; notable list topics are appropriate for a stand-alone list. The entirety of the list does not need to be documented in sources for notability, only that the grouping or set in general has been." This is very helpful, because we can take it and see that there are no sources whatsoever that discuss this grouping of elements as a group by the criteria of "Metacritic must-plays". So, unfortunately, the list does not meet the standards for a stand-alone list. -- Pres N  23:09, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Oh my god, thank you, I've been trying to find that section for the past hour. ~Cheers, Ten  Ton  Parasol  23:09, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
 * You can call it 'List of highest-ranked Metacritic video games' or 'List of video games with a score of over 90 points on Metacritic', but it doesn't change the list's purpose which is to document the most widely acclaimed video games on Metacritic, with a chosen cut-off point of 90 because that's the cut-off chosen by Metacritic themselves for excellence.
 * Is Metacritic's ranking of video games in general notable? Absolutely. Here's at least six examples I found online.
 * List of best Metacritic games of July 2023, by SVG.
 * List of best games of the year (2023) according to Metacritc, by VG247.
 * Article discussing how a game (RE4 Remake) became 2023's 2nd highest-rated game on Metacritic, by IGN.
 * Article discussing how a game (LOTR: Gollum) became the worst reviewed game of the year, by Video Games Chronicle.
 * List of games in a franchise (FF) ranked by Metascore, by Game Rant.
 * List of games by a publisher (Naughty Dog) ranked by Metascore, by CBR.
 * I've chosen 6 different examples by 6 different sources that deal with various lists by Metacritic, such as best-reviewed games of the month, of the year, in a franchise or even by a publisher, or, on the opposite end of the spectrum, the worst-reviewed games of the year. Each of these articles directly cite and are based off of Metacritic's rankings. Therefore, by inference, a list incorporating the most acclaimed games on Metacritic is definitely notable.
 * Now, if only a notable source specifically commented on games ranked that way...
 * List of the 50 most acclaimed video games ever on Metacritic, by Business Insider. TheCelebrinator (talk) 23:37, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Articles that reproduce the monthly or yearly lists don't contribute toward notability of the concept. The IGN article does not discuss the significance or what had occurred for this to happen, only noting that the game ranked that. The Gollum source is not about this topic. The franchise ones are not about the concept of the standalone list and would not contribute toward notability of the concept anyway as it's a straight simply listing of the items, not discussing the concept of Metacritic games scoring above 90 as a set. Notability is about discussion OF the list / set, not re-reporting the list. Because it was mentioned above, List of films with a 100% rating on Rotten Tomatoes is acceptable bc there are sources talking ABOUT the concept of a 100% score on RT with discussion on critics purposefully breaking it. ~Cheers, Ten  Ton  Parasol  02:24, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
 * The concept is about which games are the most widely acclaimed on Metacritic. To prove that Metacritic's ranking of games is notable (ie: people DO take notice of it) I used six different sources that show an author discussing that in some variation or form. If an author it's worthy enough of news to publish an article discussing the highest-ranked games of the month/year, then it follows that an all-time list of the best/highest-ranked would also notable.
 * Now, the 90 points threshold is acknowledged both within the industry and by outside sources as a benchmark of excellence.
 * Here's an article where a former Sony developer confirms that they had expectations for their exclusives to hit at least 90 on Metacritic.
 * Here's a GameSpot article that explicitly lists games in recent years that scored 90+ on Metacritic while discussing 'amazing' games.
 * Finally, here's a Forbes article explicitly describing a score of over 90 as "potential Game Of The Year territory", which squares up pretty neatly with "the most acclaimed video games." TheCelebrinator (talk) 04:59, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
 * P.S. Here are some additional sources that discuss the 90 point benchmark as significant or important.
 * Here's an article, citing Bloomberg (their article is behind a paywall), that discusses another game publisher (not Sony) expecting its game (Cyberpunk 2077) to hit at least 90 on Metacritic for the developers to be receiving bonuses.
 * A YouTube video by Rock, Paper, Shotgun discussing the best games with a score of at least 90 on Metacritic.
 * There are certainly more sources, but I don't think it can be denied now that the concept of "video games with a score of 90 and over on Metacritic" has been covered by other sources and thus is notable. TheCelebrinator (talk) 05:16, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
 * You're just proving that Metacritic scores are notable, not your list itself. All you did was create a list sorting configuration apparently not possible on the MC website itself, using all its data. It's simply not the function of an encyclopedia. Sergecross73   msg me  23:43, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
 * No, I proved that having a score of 90 and above is notable, that is to say, it has been noted and commented by reliable sources. The above sources don't just discuss any Metacritic score, but specifically scores of 90 and above. This shouldn't be controversial, no more than noting the films which have won 'Best Picture' at the Oscars.
 * Just because no such list – which would take an inordinate amount of time and effort to compile and verify by one single author in order to meet publishing standards – has yet to be published online doesn't negate its notability and encyclopedic value. There are dozens of lists like that which are only available on Wikipedia, precisely because the collaborative teamwork aspect of Wikipedia allows for the time and effort to make such lists. TheCelebrinator (talk) 01:19, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
 * You've only been editing Wikipedia for about a month, and the community of experienced editors here is pretty much unanimously against this. Please do some reflection on what this may mean. There's a lot of initially-unintuitive nuances to editing Wikipedia. I'm sympathetic to that, it takes time. But you're never going to get there refuse to listen to other's arguments. Sergecross73   msg me  01:47, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I understand that Wikipedia operates on consensus, and the current consensus is that my article wouldn't meet standards for publication – and I acknowledge that, even if it can be frustrating – but that doesn't mean you shouldn't argue your point if you sincerely think you are correct, and I do.
 * For now, I think it's best to agree to disagree. We've been going back and forth for quite some time. There's nothing new to bring up. There's other things more important to edit and review. At any rate, the current draft is unfinished as is, so this discussion was mostly theoretical to begin with.
 * I'm always eager to learn and obviously that includes from people with experience editing Wikipedia, but I will always continue to defend my viewpoint if I fundamentally believe it's correct. I'll always continue to be be open-minded if there is reason to change my mind. TheCelebrinator (talk) 05:20, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

Doesn't anyone have Pokémon on their watchlists?
Note: this notice is cross-posted at WT:A&M, WT:JP, and here, as well as the WikiProjects on Pokémon and media franchises.

Help is urgently needed at Talk:Pokémon. Any positive assistance is appreciated. Thanks! - Manifestation (talk) 15:20, 6 August 2023 (UTC)


 * You are entitled to revert, yourself, any bold edits you believe are incorrect, without having to necessarily call other editors to do it for you. If the other editor refuses to discuss the matter or stop editing, then it becomes a disruption issue on the part of said editor. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 18:52, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
 * "You are entitled to revert". Yes, and then I'll get into an edit war which I'll lose due to 3RR. I've been here long enough to know how this works. This is exactly what I hate about Wikipedia! It has almost no leadership. It only works when a kernel of smart people protect an article, telling the stupid people to GTFO. If that kernel of protection doesn't exist, you're on your own... unless you get help. - Manifestation (talk) 19:31, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
 * To clarify, WP:3RR is a worst-case scenario rule, not an example of how to behave. WP:BRD is the proper way to go about things, which emphasizes that things should be discussed after one revert. If an editor is constantly doing multiple restorations of disputed content they are probably going to have some explaining to do.
 * Maybe wrong facts will be on an article until you can get a dispute settled, but you are making it out like the world is ending. WP:DONTPANIC and just explain calmly and rationally and if your facts are correct you will probably win the argument. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 19:48, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
 * "if your facts are correct you will probably win the argument." I wish things always worked like that. 😒 - Manifestation (talk) 21:15, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:F.A.N.G. (Street Fighter)
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:F.A.N.G. (Street Fighter) that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. UtherSRG (talk) 13:34, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

Good article reassessment for Charizard
Charizard has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Greenish Pickle!  (🔔) 11:41, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

Request to update the 3D Realms article
Hi everyone! On behalf of Scott Miller, I've proposed some updates to the 3D Realms article here. There are some inaccuracies in our coverage of its history that Miller noticed and I've agreed to present them on talk so we can resolve them. (It's nothing outrageous and shouldn't take too much effort to fix—I would do it myself if it wasn't for the fact I've been in direct contact with Miller over it and he's offered to pay.) <small style="color:red">JOE BRO <sup style="color:#D18719">64  15:37, 12 August 2023 (UTC)

Notice
There is a discussion at Template talk:R from fictional character that may concern this WikiProject. QuicoleJR (talk) 22:08, 12 August 2023 (UTC)

Chrono Cross under Featured Article Review
I have nominated Chrono Cross for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets the featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" in regards to the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. George Ho (talk) 09:56, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

Video Game Interview sources
Hi all. I've found this site which lists the links to game interviews.(HomeLan News)

Thought i'd share because it might be of some use to anyone who wants to improve said articles from the games mentioned there. Timur9008 (talk) 15:59, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:F.A.N.G. (Street Fighter)
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:F.A.N.G. (Street Fighter) that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. — DaxServer (t · m · e · c) 10:07, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

(Guidance Request) Hey! I need help with a indie game article
Read subject! It's based off the game

Cute Fames Adventure Fame0001 (talk) 21:07, 14 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Your username and contribution history suggest that you might be connected to the subject. If so, please read the respective guidelines. As for your request, the game has been out for only two days, only on Itch.io, and only in early access. There currently is exactly zero coverage in reliable sources, so there is nothing we even could write about (as it is not notable). Either way, Wikipedia should not be used as free marketing. IceWelder  &#91; &#9993; &#93; 21:19, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
 * That's the thing. YouTube support told me I needed a wiki page up to get coverage on their side, and if I do get articles on the game I'll atleast need help popping into search results. Fame0001 (talk) 21:25, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
 * YouTube Support can't be used as a rationale for making an article, there needs to be coverage from reliable sources (ex. IGN or Polygon) to prove notability, an article can not be made if there are no sources available. NegativeMP1 (talk) 21:30, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I suppose I can just request coverage from them. Either way IGN and polygon aren't known for caring about games atm. And they mostly are seen covering triple A's more then indies or newer developers in the scene, so it may just be impossible for an indie like me to get into one of their slots! But. I'll see if I get any offers because of the game. And come back seeing if that's reliable instead Fame0001 (talk) 21:52, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
 * They are very likely related to the subject, possibly the developer themselves, the developer is known as Fame and their original draft article was made seven months ago before any trailers for the game existed. Not even situational sources have covered this game, and I don't expect there to be any coverage on this game since it just seems to be a RPG Maker project made for fun. There is nothing that we can do anyways. NegativeMP1 (talk) 21:26, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Contrary to what is claimed about sites only caring about AAAs, there is plenty of indie coverage in reliable sources, many of which want to differentiate themselves by getting the scoop on new games. If you didn't get coverage then you probably need to market more yourself or make a more impressive game, it's not up to Wikipedia to bolster that coverage. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 22:33, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
 * In that case. I'll go back to the marketing department and wait this out.. Fame0001 (talk) 22:38, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

New Articles (August 7 to August 13)
A listing of all articles newly added to the Video Games Wikiproject (regardless of creation date). Generated by v3.15 of the RecentVGArticles script and posted by PresN. Bug reports and feature requests are appreciated. -- Pres N  15:18, 14 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Articles deleted/removed: Draft:Banishers: Ghosts of New Eden, Draft:Bianca Love from BBirthday, Altron, Draft:Bud Redhead - The Time Chase, Draft:MGBA, Draft:Celica Soldream, Draft:The Evil Mannequin (video game), Draft:Winds of Fjords, Dotsoul, Draft:Special Forces: Team X, Draft:Solitaire Grand Harvest, Draft:Disk Original Group, Draft:Peripeteia (video game), Draft:Raider (team fortress 2)
 * Articles redirected: Jamil Moledina, Lugia, Pokémon Unite at the 2023 Pokémon World Championships, Amanda Ripley (character), Counter-Strike 2
 * Categories deleted/removed: Aaahh!!! Real Monsters video games, Danny Phantom video games, El Tigre: The Adventures of Manny Rivera video games, Non-binary video game characters, Rocko's Modern Life video games, The Ren & Stimpy Show video games, The Wild Thornberrys video games, Video games based on Hey Arnold!, Ghost Trick: Phantom Detective, Ratchet & Clank characters, Video games related to anime and manga
 * Templates deleted/removed: Ghost Trick
 * New categories: Mission Studios games —, Tale of Tales (company) games —  , Games with tank controls —  , Dishonored media files —   (newly tagged - originally created 15 days ago) , Fluent Entertainment games —  , Kepler Interactive games —  , Mobigame games —  , Turn-based role-playing video games —  , WorkJam games —
 * New templates: Asmik-kun —

<div style="line-height:1.4em !important"> August 7
 * (newly tagged – originally created 16 years ago)

August 8

August 9
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 * (newly tagged – originally created 7 years ago)
 * (newly tagged – originally created 7 years ago)

August 10
 * (was previously a draft)
 * (was previously a redirect)
 * (was previously a redirect)
 * (was previously a userpage)
 * (was previously a redirect)
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August 11

August 12
 * (was previously a draft)
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August 13
 * (was previously a redirect)
 * (was previously a redirect)
 * (was previously a userpage – moved out 22 days ago)
 * (was previously a redirect)
 * (newly tagged – originally created 12 years ago)
 * (newly tagged – originally created 12 years ago)
 * (newly tagged – originally created 12 years ago)

Can I get a temperature check on List of review-bombing incidents? It seems like The Gamers(tm) are Mad(tm) about something at least once a month and this list could quickly get unmanageable. And our normal checks and balances against this probably won't work because more and more RS websites are putting out ragebaity articles on reviewbombs as they happen, whether they're real or imagined. I don't mind keeping the most significant examples at the main review bomb page but I think a "hall of fame" list may not be appropriate. Axem Titanium (talk) 19:56, 15 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Already started to address that on its talk page. Only those review bombs that have had significant effects (SW BF II) or well covered by multiple sources (like the current one for OW2) make sense to keep, merging back into the main page. M asem (t) 21:35, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Im of a similar opinion. Im okay with the article, but I feel like it would benefit from some inclusion criteria. Some of the examples feel a bit inconsequential. Sergecross73   msg me  21:49, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I also think that some facts need to be checked. I checked the Astral Chain section, and it has multiple instances of OR, including claiming Three Houses was review bombed for being a Switch exclusive and speculation that the user reviewers didn't know it was owned by Nintendo, Another issue is the claim of them being critically acclaimed, a useless detail in this context. It's also supported only by an unreliable source and a dubiously reliable source. I worry that the list has a lot of similar issues. - Cukie Gherkin (talk) 01:12, 16 August 2023 (UTC)

Global warming game
If anyone is looking for a big project, global warming game could probably use some editing and pruning. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 02:59, 16 August 2023 (UTC)


 * The article's indiscriminate, seems somewhat spammy. It should probably just be redirected to serious game as there is very little salvageable, if anything. This topic can be expanded on at Serious game before being split off again if necessary. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 06:46, 16 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Environmental video game would likely be a better name were the article's contents redone. This article, for example, talks a lot about the subject, but they are not all global warming related. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 06:59, 16 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I think a lot of well-meaning people simply don't understand that Wikipedia is not supposed to be comprehensive web directory. Redirecting might work, but it seems likely to me that there's coverage of the topic in academic sources.  For example: Climate change games as tools for education and engagement and Game-based Climate Change Engagement: Analyzing the Potential of Entertainment and Serious Games. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 15:54, 16 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Yeah, much like the review bombing article listed a few sections above, there's probably a decent article idea in there, they're just a bit off in execution of the idea. I'm already busy cleaning up misguided lists though, so I won't be cleaning up this one... Sergecross73   msg me  16:09, 16 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I feel like this should probably just be reverted back to this version from April. Per the most recent addition to the Talk page, there may be some COI issues as well. Woodroar (talk) 21:20, 16 August 2023 (UTC)

"Super Smash Bros. 4"/"Smash 4" as alternate titles for Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS and Wii U
@Soetermans and I are of differing opinions when it comes to using "Smash 4" as an alternate title for Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS and Wii U, and we thought we'd solicit some opinions here in add on to the talk page on that article. It's an interesting case because it involves two games which are technically separate but widely considered one and the same with some platform-specific differences. This and the fact that nowhere else in the article references the community's adoption of "Smash 4" as a name for the two games leads me, at least, to believe that the term should be included as an alternate name in parentheses. But regardless we were wondering where you all might stand on this. ErrorDestroyer (talk) 03:57, 7 August 2023 (UTC)


 * While looking for additional reliable sources to back this claim to add to the Polygon article you provided on the talk (the Smash wiki is not a reliable source), I noticed that List of major Super Smash Bros. for Wii U tournaments (FL promoted in 2020) makes the same remark with two distinct references. With that, I personally think it's acceptable to add "sometimes abbreviated as Smash 4" or whatever wording is appropriate with the three references (or any two of the three) since it is backed up by third-party reliable sourcing. ~Cheers, Ten  Ton  Parasol  04:20, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Glad to hear that! It admittedly took a bit of digging to find that article, which I suspect is because video game community culture is relatively underrepresented among the sources considered reliable by Wikipedia, and because there aren't many contexts in which such a source would feel compelled to use an unofficial name (especially if they're only covering one "edition"). Thanks for pointing me to a couple more articles, I knew they were out there somewhere. ErrorDestroyer (talk) 05:38, 7 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi, sorry for my late reply. I'm feeling a little better, thankfully. Now, the thing with other names, nicknames, short hands, a/k/as, etc., is that the internet is filled with them. It is both used by players, fans, forum users but also by reliable sources. Sometimes, reliable sources just drop the full title and use the subtitle, as is the case in or . Other times it's more informal, like , , , , you name it. Per WP:TONE, we're not to use those kinds of names that are too informal - note that the article Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS and Wii U at no point refers to the games as Smash 4 (and I didn't take that out!). In the custom Google WP:VG/RS search engine, I get 43 results when I look up "smash 4", does that merit inclusion? I don't think so. And what would be the point of adding a "also known as..." in the lead, when it isn't called that throughout the article?


 * But maybe it is time for some solid consensus. For some reason, CS:GO can be mentioned in Counter-Strike: Global Offensive, but GTA V isn't used on Grand Theft Auto V. soetermans . ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 07:37, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
 * My view (which isn't supported by any Wikipedia policy, that I know of anyway) is that it's important to distinguish between trivial shortenings and abbreviations, and shortenings and abbreviations which become a name in and of themselves. The latter case is usually indicated by special pronunciation, as is the case for CS:GO, DotA, and PUBG (before its official name was changed); "Super Smash Bros. 4" is an exception since its nontriviality derives from a change in emphasis (for -> 4), a reference to the series number (4) and a collectivization (two games referred to by one name). By this rule, "Super Smash Bros. 4" would be a valid alternative name, but "Smash 4" and "SSB4" would be trivial shortenings of this name and would therefore be invalid. It's a testament to what a unique case this is that I'm compelled to advocate an exception for the exception, the retention of "Smash 4" as an alternative name. I do this because the longer form is basically never found in the wild, and certainly not in any reliable source I've seen. While I would reluctantly accept having only "Super Smash Bros. 4" as an alternative name, it wouldn't quite be ideal and in practice people would probably continue to add "or simply Smash 4" to the sentence.
 * I regret that I'm not able to cite any Wikipedia policies here and that I can't quite elucidate why I'm more comfortable with acronyms and trivial abbreviations in other contexts than I am with those in video games. It just simply feels right to do it this way, and I think many Wikipedians would agree; perhaps reflecting this assertion, I can't think of any counterexample to the rules outlined here off the top of my head. If you know of any such article and support its use of alternative names (or lack thereof) I would be interested to hear why. ErrorDestroyer (talk) 09:44, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I would support adding the alternate name Smash 4 to the lead in parentheses. QuicoleJR (talk) 13:08, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't support it at all. It doesn't sound like a very common alternate name (unlike things like GTA V or CS:GO). We can have Smash 3DS/Wii U as the redirect target for Smash 4 but I think that should be it. OceanHok (talk) 13:20, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I dont have a problem with the redirect, as they are collectively the 4th entry, but they're not literally named that, so I don't see a need for a note or any real usage of it in the article. Sergecross73   msg me  13:25, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
 * 2018 Kotaku, ESPN, Nintendo Life, Yahoo, Red Bull all refer to "Smash 4" in their headlines, all in the context of esports. Seems a reasonable inclusion. Though I will say that competitive Smash Bros. is not even mentioned in that article, which does seem like an oversight even if it was never a particularly popular game for it. ~ Maplestrip/Mable ( chat ) 13:36, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I agree with Maple that the game is pretty often referred to as "Smash 4" unofficially within the context of esports. It's worth mentioning, as long as it's done in a way that makes it clear it is unofficial. TarkusAB talk / contrib 17:17, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I hate to be that guy but... it's "Smash for". casualdejekyll  00:58, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Since I see that "Smash 4" still hasn't been added to the lede, I'll throw my !vote in that it seems like a notable enough alternate term to qualify there on a COMMONNAME basis (since, let's face it, it's not surprising that the title of that game is usually abbreviated). SnowFire (talk) 19:28, 17 August 2023 (UTC)

Notice of RfC for Dexerto.com at WP:RS
Hello. You may be interested in an open RfC regarding the use of dexerto.com as a reliable source at Reliable sources/Noticeboard. Your input would be appreciated. Thank you,  - Skipple   ☎  14:19, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Mother (video game)
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Mother (video game) that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. – Material  Works  16:33, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

Multiple/redundant credits for single-developer games
I stumbled across the Return of the Obra Dinn article again today and was reminded that an edit I made a few months back had been reverted. In it, I added parameters for Lucas Pope as the designer, programmer, and composer for the game. undid this edit with the following rationale: "this was intentional, we don't need to list the same guy 5 times". I thought I reached out to Dissident93 directly but I can't find that conversation for the life of me, so I've tagged them here.

While I understand where Dissident93 is coming from, I strongly disagree with that rationale for any form of media. Games have so many aspects to their creation, and the fact that Pope is only listed as the "designer" and "artist" for Obra Dinn right now negates the work he did programming and scoring the game as well.

To be clear, I completely agree that we should not list the same person multiple times when they have a more generic credit, such as Mike Bithell's "Creator" credit for Thomas Was Alone. However, I believe the infobox should reflect how people are credited in the actual media, and in the case of Obra Dinn, Pope credits himself for "Programming, Design, Art, Sound & Music". This also extends to Pope's Papers Please, where he is credited for "Design, Code, Art, Music, Sound", but is currently only listed as the designer in the infobox.

Let me know your thoughts! Sock  ( tock talk)  19:12, 18 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Credits for the infobox should only be those that have been recognized by reliable sources. Just because you can look at the credits to figure that out, this usually becomes a mess when there's multiple but non-notable people involved. Similarly, when only one person is involved, it doesn't make sense to fill in the other fields besides the Developer one. M asem (t) 22:40, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

"It's just... TENNIS!"
This edit. Should it be included on the List of Mario role-playing games? I'd like to get some second opinions. Panini! • 🥪 18:52, 20 August 2023 (UTC)


 * It's well documented that those entries had single player rpg modes, so I see no problem. (Also find it hard to believe such an oversight would occur on an FA.) Sergecross73   msg me  18:59, 20 August 2023 (UTC)
 * If it changes your decision at all, those two games were added after the FLC, by . Panini!  • 🥪 19:02, 20 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Hey, I added them to the list after they were added to the template. I'm impartial personally whether to include them or not, but I do want to keep the article and template consistent. Alternatively we could also put the Mario Tennis and Golf titles under a "See Also" section or something? I don't know. As long as the article and template are consistent with each other I'm happy lol. TehRYNOL (talk) 14:32, 21 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Content should never be added to articles based on being included in a template, but rather the other way around. Sourced content in an article should be what drives inclusion in a template navbox. -- ferret (talk) 15:46, 21 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Oh fair! In the future I'll keep that in mind, cheers. :) TehRYNOL (talk) 19:22, 21 August 2023 (UTC)
 * They should be on the list. QuicoleJR (talk) 19:06, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

More comments needed at Talk:List of review-bombing incidents
Hoping to come to a consensus on this discussion which was mentioned in above. Axem Titanium (talk) 20:54, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Help with Portuguese source
While trying to improve the notability of Goro Majima. I found this book that discusses the franchise but it's all in Portuguese and I can't copy the text to google translate for some reason. Is there any user who understands Portuguese might help me. It might help to establish far more notability as I found two scholars discussing his characterization Yakuza 0 as well as a best character award but the rest of the sources are instead reviews.Tintor2 (talk) 23:49, 20 August 2023 (UTC)


 * I'm pretty sure that's French. :) IceWelder  &#91; &#9993; &#93; 14:41, 21 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Also, if your primary goal is to just get the raw text, I can recommend getting Microsoft PowerToys and using "Text Extractor" (the OCR tool) on the parts you need copied. IceWelder  &#91; &#9993; &#93; 14:46, 21 August 2023 (UTC)


 * It's French? :O I guess I gotta install that but my computer is broken as heck.Tintor2 (talk) 23:27, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Majora's Mask FAR
I have nominated The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets the featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" in regards to the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Negative MP1  16:22, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

AEW Fight Forever Review
I am currently going through this video game article, currently rated as Start-class, but has recently greatly been expanded but also have recently began making some edits, specifically removal of links and recurrent edits, which are quickly replaced by further unreliable sources. Also they are universally negative, leading me to question to bias, especially considering the reception section appears to be mostly balanced for a mixed reception game but has recently had efforts to make not just that section but the overall page itself much more negative (it is no secret online wrestling fandoms can be extremely argumentative). I was wondering if someone more experienced than me could check the sourcing and also review the page in its current state. Many thanks. FrankWithStein (talk) 07:44, 13 August 2023 (UTC)


 * it is no secret online wrestling fandoms can be extremely argumentative You can say that again too. For some reason there's a great deal of tribalism where it concerns rival companies/promotions, which could well have seeped into this article. — <i style="color:#8000FF">Czello</i> (<i style="color:#8000FF">music</i>) 07:50, 13 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Let me tell you something, brother. When there's two pieces of video game art on one article, brother, one of them is gonna be against NFCC, man. Whatcha gonna do, when the 24-inch pythons and copyright comes down on you?  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 07:57, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

Could someone please take a look when possible, or point me int he direction to request this as it is still ongoing with one user routinely adding as much negative press from unreliable sources, despite multiple attemots to remove and clean up, adding reasons why and opening discussion on the talk page about it. FrankWithStein (talk) 11:07, 14 August 2023 (UTC)


 * @FrankWithStein, I haven't taken an in-depth look, but if this one side is clearly in the wrong you can point them to these irrefutable pages:
 * WP:DUEWEIGHT, where you must balance an article with the majority favored opinion while also giving discussion to the other side that has just as much to say.
 * WP:VG/RS, a list of all reliable and unreliable video games sources.
 * Panini! • 🥪 17:13, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Coin945 and AI generated articles - Cleanup
Coin945, previously known for multiple blocks due to COPYVIO issues and extremely close paraphrasing, has been indefinitely blocked. After their last final warnings related to COPYVIO in August 2022, they disappeared for a few months to return in July 2023. Since then, they've created over a dozen articles that have made it into mainspace... and all of them were created with ChatGPT, which they have admitted.

These articles need a critical eye to remove any potential COPYVIO, or simply merge/re-draftify them, as often the sourcing is lacking.


 * 1) Rescue the Scientists! (Redirected to developer)
 * 2) Moptown (Redirected to developer)
 * 3) KidWriter (Redirected to developer)
 * 4) Write, Camera, Action! (Redirected to developer)
 * 5) 3D Atlas (Merged/redirected)
 * 6) EduSoft (Redirected to SoftKey)
 * 7) Compton's New Media (Redirected to SoftKey)
 * 8) Acquisition of MECC by SoftKey (Merged/redirected)
 * 9) Acquisition of Broderbund by The Learning Company (Merged/redirected)
 * 10) Softkey acquisition of The Learning Company (Merged/redirected)
 * 11) Acquisition of The Learning Company by Mattel (Merged/redirected)
 * 12) JumpStart Baby (Redirected to JumpStart Games)
 * 13) Geometry Blaster (Redirected to Blaster Learning System)
 * 14) Reading Blaster: Invasion of the Word Snatchers (Redirected to Blaster Learning System)
 * 15) Stick Shift (Redirected, unsalvageable)
 * 16) Vikings (video game) (Redirected, unsalvageable)
 * 17) L.A. Blaster (Redirected to developer)
 * 18) Black Sect (Redirected to developer)
 * 19) Fate by Numbers
 * 20) Cybermania '94
 * 21) Neighbours: The Adventure (Redirected to Neighbors)
 * 22) Neighbours (video game) (Redirected to Neighbors)
 * 23) Zoombinis: Mountain Rescue (Redirected to Zoombinis)
 * 24) The Tearoom (Redirected to developer)

If you've reviewed one of these and feel it's fine to leave as is, please strikethrough it on my list. I do not believe you can trust any text to actually be verifiable. Coin claims they checked everything ChatGPT output against sources, but somehow did not read closely enough to notice the flowery promotional output it constantly produced. -- ferret (talk) 20:29, 23 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Stick Shift was absolute garbage that didn't seem to be properly cited by the text generated at all, and Vikings used two sources that I strongly believe are not reliable, and even if they were that isn't enough. Both have been dealt with and redirected. Negative  MP1  20:45, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you. As an editor, I would have sent a bunch back to draft, as they're very awkward in wording in tone, wording, and formatting. But I since I intervened as an Admin, and performed the block, I feel too INVOLVED to do it personally. Sergecross73   msg me  20:48, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I merged the "acquisition" articles, as I knew enough about the subjects to handle it, but basically nothing was salvageable so I was just writing new content- the AI-generated stuff mangled details enough that you can't copy anything across but have to rewrite from the sources (which is why AI-generated writing is banned). All of these should be redirected, it's not worth trying to salvage. -- Pres N  20:50, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
 * (Slight nitpicky clarification: AI-generated writing is not banned. Unfortunately the Venn diagram of "responsibly uses GPT to create a basic outline / structure and manually verifies and rewrites everything" and "wants to even use GPT to help write articles at all" has very, very little overlap...  and for good reason, most people would rather just write it themselves from the start, including me.  See artwork title as an example of how to use GPT and not get banned for brave editors who've tried something like this, though.)  SnowFire (talk) 21:16, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
 * For those interested more on this topic, see the policy draft in progress at WP:LLM TarkusAB talk / contrib 21:29, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I was wondering why Coin's latest batch of articles seemed to make no sense. Thanks for clearing this up. Phediuk (talk) 21:22, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
 * At least for Cybermania '94, it is clear that Coin checked none of the generated outpu: The article mentioned the incorrect host, date, and even name. The Reception section then made up some bit about "William Shatner's lively and humorous performance as the host", even though he only voiced the nominee rundowns. When something appears off at first glance for any of these articles, it very likely is. IceWelder  &#91; &#9993; &#93; 00:17, 24 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Honestly I threw whatever I had with Draft:Cybermania '94 and did not bother to read the whole thing concisely. I just thought Coin was being lazy, which I guess was still true. GamerPro64  06:17, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Atari 2600+
The current Atari has announced a new console, the Atari 2600+, which is based on a SoC internals and has other differentiating features from the original Atari 2600, though interestingly has a cartridge slot compatible with 2600 and 7200 games. (Whether there will be internal storage to load additional games, its not yet known or clear) Some IPs have taken to imply that this is an extension of the original Atari 2600 product line, thus making the lifetime of the Atari 2600 from 1977 to present. I don't read that product announcement in that way, but would appreciate input on the 2600 article. (It does make sense to cover the 2600+ there, just not treat it as a continuation of the original 2600 manufacturing run). M asem (t) 23:24, 22 August 2023 (UTC)


 * I think this falls under being a classic console like the NES Classic Edition and Atari Flashback series, possibly warranting of its own article? Obviously should be mentioned in the Atari 2600 article, but I think this could (likely should) be its own article. Negative  MP1  23:39, 22 August 2023 (UTC)
 * It's even prompting the release of new Atari 2600 games to be launch titles for the platform as seen here. Negative  MP1  23:46, 22 August 2023 (UTC)
 * The common sense response is that this is a new product made in 2023 and it's WP:ASTONISHing to assert with a straight face that the original 2600 has a "lifetime" of 1977-present. The argument in favor rests on many technicalities, uncommon readings of plain English, and worst of all accepts a corporate marketing narrative at face value. No free marketing for corporations on Wikipedia. Axem Titanium (talk) 20:15, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Agreed. I am thinking about how I handled the ten-year gap in List of Vampire: The Dark Ages books, by writing "2002–2004 and 2014", and I think that type of writing is the most I could be willing to accept for this. Realistically I would consider it a new product that is capable of running older games.--AlexandraIDV 08:54, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Knee (Gamer)
hey can you guys please check this profile Knee he is South Korean International Tekken player he has vast historny in tekken international tournaments and he won 2 to 3 tekken Evo Championship i have some sources about him here are some sources links : https://www.redbull.com/int-en/drx-knee-evo-2022-tekken-7-winner https://kotaku.com/a-tekken-legends-visit-to-pakistan-is-met-with-both-che-1840183690 https://osgamers.com/frequently-asked-questions/who-is-knee-tekken-real-name https://appuals.com/knee-wins-evo-2022/ https://www.oneesports.gg/tekken/knee-trained-pakistan-beat-tekken-god/ https://www.sportskeeda.com/esports/news-the-issue-heat-system-many-games-drx-knee-talks-red-bull-golden-letters-tournament-tekken-8-exclusive he is finalist in tekken evo championships and Tekken world tours in many countries his profile is same like Arsalan Ash he is Pakistani Tekken Champion he faced many times in many tournaments so can you guys can check knee profile is he eligible for a wikipedia page i ask this same question in Wikipedia help desk but can't get final answer so the person on wikipedia help desk recommend to ask questions here about gaming and players so can anyone help me about this and i also write full page on knee in my sandbox : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Ab.Haris999/sandbox mostly details i used from liquidpedia and wikitia if anyone can review this sources and my sandbox i can move this page into mainspace. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ab.Haris999 (talk • contribs) 17:50, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Internet Archive - Adobe Flash
I don't know if this is old news but I just noticed a bunch of previously dead archived pages that relied on Adobe Flash just sprang to life due to Ruffle emulation. Neat. Mika1h (talk) 18:39, 24 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Do you need to have anything active on your browser for that to work?  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 20:46, 24 August 2023 (UTC)
 * From what I can see, no. Ruffle can run SWF files in browser via WebAssembly. There's a demo here: https://ruffle.rs/demo/  - Skipple   ☎  20:49, 24 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Oooo. Does anyone have an example of an archived page with Flash? I'd like to take a look, but I can't think of one off the top of my head. ~Cheers, Ten  Ton  Parasol  21:38, 24 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I like the GTA2 website. IceWelder  &#91; &#9993; &#93; 22:25, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Tinykin improvement
A month ago, I nomationed Tinykin to the peer review but the only request from other editor I got so far is from @Z1720. While other quickly got requests, mine seemed abandoned. Is there anything I can do with the article for a possible chance for GA nomation. NatwonTSG2 (talk) 16:09, 25 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi, I just went over the article again. Besides some grammatical errors it looks pretty good to me. soetermans . ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 05:34, 26 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Oh so there is lot you change including one which I never heard of such as "abilitylies". One thing that I tried do for the article but failed is for reception section due to the less important thing and how small it is. NatwonTSG2 (talk) 17:35, 26 August 2023 (UTC)
 * That was a typographical error! soetermans . ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 17:44, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

New Articles (August 14 to August 20)
A listing of all articles newly added to the Video Games Wikiproject (regardless of creation date). Generated by v3.15 of the RecentVGArticles script and posted by PresN. Bug reports and feature requests are appreciated. -- Pres N  21:06, 23 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Articles deleted/removed: Draft:Nischay Malhan, Ryan Shwayder, Draft:Scott Wozniak, Manuel Bachoore, Draft:Phoenixx, Draft:Ari Gibson, Draft:Gematsu, List of guest characters in video games, Draft:Wuthering Waves, Draft:Tower of Fantasy, Draft:RobertBarkow, Yuji Himukai
 * Articles redirected: Captain Price, PlayStation 2 sales
 * Articles moved to draft space: GT Racing 2 The Real Car Experience
 * New categories: League of Legends spin-off games —, Media Rings games —  , Zono games —  , Grizzly Games games —  , Rusty Lake games —  , Splashteam games —
 * New templates: Annapurna Interactive —

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Congrats to Kung Fu Man for "Megalovania", which went from creation to GA in a week! On a different note, see the section above for new articles that need to be reviewed/merged; looks like Coin didn't tag any of them for WPVG. -- Pres N  21:06, 23 August 2023 (UTC)


 * The War Thunder leaks doesn't seem that it needs a separate article given that the War Thunder article is not super long. M asem (t) 00:21, 24 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I went ahead and redirected it back at the parent, given it's sourced there still and the discussion on the talk page I don't see any reason for a separate article without a new proposal at the very least.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 18:37, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

New Articles (August 21 to August 27)
A listing of all articles newly added to the Video Games Wikiproject (regardless of creation date). Generated by v3.15 of the RecentVGArticles script and posted by PresN. Bug reports and feature requests are appreciated. -- Pres N  16:01, 28 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Articles deleted/removed: Draft:GMAS (Games, Manga, and Anime society), Draft:Minecraft World Downloader Mod(W.D.L.), Draft:Joshua Philip, Draft:Celine Tricart, Draft:Derail Valley, Draft:PlatinumQuest, Veloren, Draft:Yusuf Can Belli, Draft:Feytal, Draft:Find The Family Guy, Draft:Marc Ericksen, Draft:Moon Ball Magic, Draft:Žarko Dragojević (musician), Draft:123 Slaughter Me Street, Draft:Angry Birds: Bird Island, Cybermania '94: The Ultimate Games Awards, Dream Factory Co., Ltd., Draft:Hypixel Skyblock, Draft:Paper.io: World Conflict, Draft:Mighty Doom, Draft:My Singing Monsters: Characters, Draft:Game Audio Institute, Draft:JKLM.fun
 * Articles redirected: Car Town, City of Metronome, Morte (Planescape), Roll (Mega Man), War Thunder classified documents leaks, Amaterasu (Ōkami), Marcus Rivers, Sagat (Street Fighter), Wii Fit Trainer, Black Sect, Gearbox Publishing, Ghosts (Pac-Man), JumpStart Baby, L.A. Blaster, Neighbours: The Adventure, Neighbours (video game), Reading Blaster: Invasion of the Word Snatchers, The Tearoom, Vikings (video game), Villager (Animal Crossing), Zoombinis: Mountain Rescue, Cubone, Growlanser Generations, Impa, Stick Shift
 * New categories: Video games directed by Josh Sawyer —, Giant Sparrow games —  , 2024 in esports —  , Baggy Cat games —  , Creat Studios games —  , Deconstructeam games —  , Just For Games games —  , Kinmoku games —  , SMG Studio games —  , The Game Kitchen games —  , Tempest Software games —  , Video games designed by Don Bluth —

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Delisted digital-only games with no source for 'it's gone'
In many cases, delisting of games happens quietly with no announcement either by the developer or news coverage discussing it. In this case, do we not mention it in the article at all or just say "as of 2023, it is no longer available" with no source cited or something? Is crawling through archive.org wayback machine archives of the store listing and determining from that an approximate year of disappearance acceptable? I was unable to find existing guidance for this. Waxworker (talk) 16:38, 30 August 2023 (UTC)


 * I assume if there's no source for the delisting, we just don't mention it. People can find out for themselves, and delisting does not make the game unplayable like a shut down online game does. Wikipedia isn't a sales directory so we aren't responsible for properly informing people's purchasing decisions, just talking about the game as it was. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 16:43, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I figured - trying to determine the delisting date if sources don't discuss it seems like WP:OR. Waxworker (talk) 16:51, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Pretty much what I was going to say. We're not a catalogue or a directory. I have no problem with a passing mention if a reliable source mentions it, but we're not here to manage documenting the overall availability of a platforms library availability. Sergecross73   msg me  16:51, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't really see this as something we need to denote unless there's sourcing and coverage of the event for some reason. We don't really try to track physical games releases by a concept of "by 20XX, no more copies could be found in retail stores" or that they were no longer being manufactured, which is a constant thing that happens. -- ferret (talk) 17:39, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Maybe this is something we should add to MOS:VG? We all seem to be in agreement here, but this is a recurring issue on games on my watchlist... Sergecross73   msg me  17:48, 30 August 2023 (UTC)

Relevancy and use of the "Essential articles" page?
There is a subpage for this project known as essential articles, which appears to have had a use years ago to be an assortment of articles that would be used to create Wikipedia Books. It was also meant to document the "most essential articles" in the discussion of video games. However, until I updated it a couple months ago, this article was basically abandoned for years (no new listed topics such as the ninth generation of consoles and no updated quality assessments) and appears to have been basically replaced with the importance scale. Wikipedia Books have also been a deprecated concept since 2021, apparently. So my question is, does this subpage serve any relevant use, and is it worth continuing to update? Negative MP1  22:32, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
 * The fact that it is abandoned serves as evidence that no, it doesn't have any relevant use. TarkusAB talk / contrib 18:57, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I will admit some disappointment the Wikipedia Books thing didn't happen. That would've been fun to reflect on contributing to.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 19:22, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep, it's fun to look at. Panini!  • 🥪 02:39, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Oh no, I wasn't proposing we delete the page, I was just asking if it was worth it for me to maintain it. Negative  MP1  02:47, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
 * And WikiProject Video games/Vital articles was created in recent year...? -- Lopullinen 12:09, 2 September 2023 (UTC)

Improving the Wii U GamePad article
Recently in a few weeks, I've been improving alot to the Wii U GamePad article, and i am posting this here to get any more suggestions to be made to this article. I wanna eventually get this article into GA status alongside the main Wii U article. Summerslam2022 (talk) 18:14, 3 September 2023 (UTC)


 * If you want a peer review, go to Peer review. QuicoleJR (talk) 14:15, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

New Articles (August 28 to September 3)
A listing of all articles newly added to the Video Games Wikiproject (regardless of creation date). Generated by v3.15 of the RecentVGArticles script and posted by PresN. Bug reports and feature requests are appreciated. -- Pres N  02:00, 5 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Articles deleted/removed: Draft:Final Fantasy IV (2021 video game), Draft:Illinois Game Con, Draft:K4RIF, Draft:Soulsborne, Draft:Young Souls (video game), HeroCraft, Draft:ICandy Interactive Limited, Draft:Team See You Soon, Draft:Woodoku, Crescendo (video game), Draft:Holdfast: Nations at War, Draft:Invisible Walls, Draft:Marvel's Spider-Man 2 (upcoming video game), German Developer Innovation Prize, Draft:Drinking Fortnite, Draft:Vtube7.com
 * Articles redirected: Funware, Denis (YouTuber), List of KOF: Maximum Impact characters, Sweden (song), Carth Onasi, MUSHclient, Interplay Discovery, List of The Last Blade characters, List of Little Battlers Experience characters, Ominous Horizons: A Paladin's Calling, Sam Fisher (Splinter Cell), Arthas Menethil, Garrett (Thief), Momotarō Dentetsu 11: Black Bombee Shutsugen! No Maki, Momotarō Dentetsu 12: Nishinihon Hen mo ari Masse!, Pichu, Pragmata, Toro Inoue
 * Categories deleted/removed: Video games set in Houston, Video games set in Milwaukee
 * New categories: Machine Zone games —, Freedom Factory Studios games —  , Little Orbit games —  , Super Evil Megacorp games —  , Vicious Cycle Software games —  , DoubleBear Productions games —  , Women video game producers —  , Dead or Alive Xtreme —  , Hip Games games —  , Hip Interactive games —  , RHAON games —   (newly tagged - originally created 15 days ago) , Scottish video game characters —   (newly tagged - originally created 20 days ago) , Team Reptile games —  , Video games set in Madrid —   (newly tagged - originally created 18 days ago)
 * New templates: 428: Shibuya Scramble —

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Smaller week than usual! I think I'm going to re-redirect Collection of Mana, unless there's objections- 2 sentences about a compilation release does not an article make. -- Pres N  02:02, 5 September 2023 (UTC)

Talk:Toriel
I posted a link to a potentially reliable and significant coverage source that I discovered. Would like to get some opinions about it & if it helps on Toriel's notability. Skyshifter  talk  20:48, 6 September 2023 (UTC)

List of Horizon machines
I started a list draft for the machines of the Horizon series earlier this year and then haven't worked on it much since as I've gone back and forth on if it's worth continuing or just moving on.

Just looking for some feedback. Is it something that people think would pass in the mainspace (obviously not in its current state)? Or should I just not bother with the draft anymore? --  ZooBlazer talk 05:27, 6 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Lists of enemies are going to be an incredibly tough sell on modern-day Wikipedia, as they heavily risk going into WP:GAMEGUIDE territory.
 * Your best bet is to create a prose article on Machines (Horizon video game series) (tough title to get correct) rather than a list. I recently made such a page myself for Machines (Nier: Automata), a race of machine enemies. However, the ones from Nier got a great deal of independent reception. I myself do not know if the Horizon machines got an equivalent amount (the draft has nothing besides primary or trivial sources), but if they did, it could be viable. If they didn't, it's not viable at all. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 05:59, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't think they have even close to the amount of coverage as the Nier machines so a prose article would be tough. So I'll probably just move on to other things then. Thanks for your reply. --  ZooBlazer talk 06:59, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
 * An alternate possibility is a Universe of Horizon article similar to Universe of Mass Effect. It can heavily mention the Machines without necessarily being about them. But again, that is dependent on whether there are multiple articles talking about the game's universe, which I'm not sure of either. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 20:55, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I think for now, maybe the Horizon (video game series) article could have a section on them if it gets further expanded. --  ZooBlazer talk 21:03, 6 September 2023 (UTC)

Request for reviews at Doom FAC
The Doom (1993 video game) FAC is in danger of stalling out; it's gotten one support and a half-review, but could use some more reviewer attention. Willing to trade reviews for anyone willing to give it a look. -- Pres N  01:51, 8 September 2023 (UTC)


 * @PresN Midnight here, but I'll check it out tomorrow. Ping me if I forget to do it within a day. Panini!  • 🥪 04:17, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I'll try to look at it this weekend. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs  talk 13:22, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I’ll see if I can look into it as well, though I’m working into the weekend this week. At the very least I may be able to do a source review, if I can find the time.  Red Phoenix  <sup style="color: #FFA500">talk  17:47, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

New Articles (September 4 to September 10)
A listing of all articles newly added to the Video Games Wikiproject (regardless of creation date). Generated by v3.15 of the RecentVGArticles script and posted by PresN. Bug reports and feature requests are appreciated. -- Pres N  12:51, 12 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Articles deleted/removed: Draft:Audica main info, Draft:I See Red (game), Draft:Shararam, Chris King (game designer), Draft:Michael Massimilla, Draft:Million KNights Vermillion, Draft:NES-Max, Draft:Jschlatt, Draft:List of Wii Party minigames, Draft:MrTonyTv, Draft:PlayStation10, Draft:Silent Hill 2 (upcoming video game), Draft:Veiled Experts, Bigger Boo, Draft:James Sunderland (video game character), Keith Cooke, Draft:Silly Royale, Draft:Stray (film), Draft:HOST (game), Draft:King K Roller, Draft:Apocalypse (2019 video game), Draft:Car Parking Multiplayer, Draft:Speed Racing Ultimate (video game series), Mario's First Love Interest, Draft:Paramount Game Studios, Draft:Thrive (Video Game), Draft:Untitled Hogwarts Legacy sequel, Young Toadsworth
 * Articles redirected: Characters of The King of Fighters series, In the Groove (video game series), Kadabra, Marcus Rivers (character), Special Force 2: Tale of the Truthful Pledge, Counter-Strike 2, Lucario, Kyle Katarn, Commander Video, Nintendomagasinet, Villager (Animal Crossing), Collection of Mana, Frontlines (Roblox), Smurfs Kart, Touch! Generations, Funware
 * Categories deleted/removed: Killer Instinct characters, Video games set in Northern Europe, Five Nights at Freddy's user templates
 * New categories: Video games directed by Eiji Aonuma —, Video games directed by Yoshiaki Koizumi —  , Novels based on Krondor —   (newly tagged - originally created 11 years ago) , Video games directed by Masato Kato —  , Hard science fiction video games —  , PID Games games —  , PlayStation Productions films —  , Runecraft (company) games —  , Tuna Technologies games —

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Guidance on content relating to of technical and performance issues
The article Caesar III contains the text: The GOG.com version was subsequently released onto Steam in 2016, but the client-based DRM of Steam has caused that version to suffer from stability and compatibility problems not seen on the original digital version provided by GOG.com. The editor originally provided a link to user discussions on the Steam page for the source for this statement. I haven't been able to find any guidance on when an article should (1) address a game's technical or performance issues; and (2) where those issues are not covered by secondary sources, refer to user generated sources. Any help on this would be appreciated. ＶＲＸＣＥＳ (talk) 08:35, 12 September 2023 (UTC)


 * WP:USERG is the relevant guidance in this case. Technical and performance issues should only be mentioned when they are detailed by reliable sources. In this case, the performance problem may not necessarily affect all users, so the testimonials of a few players are not necessarily definitive or correct. The performance issues should also be something major so it's not putting undue weight on a minor topic. When a game is borderline unplayable at launch and sources talk about it, that could be included. If it's a patch that introduces a performance problem that is quickly fixed, maybe not. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 08:40, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks, that's clarified my thinking - appreciate your help in pointing me in the right direction. ＶＲＸＣＥＳ (talk) 09:06, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
 * @Zxcvbnm: hi. It is worth noting that Caesar 3 is not a new game in any way at all: it is a game which was released in 1998, so naturally after so much time, bugs and incompatibilities are very likely because of the games’ extreme age. The version on Steam is just a DRM-free version that was modified by GOG way back in 2010, but fundamentally all it is, is a CD copy patched to the latest patch and then minor startup bugs fixed and the DRM removed to ensure it launches with no CD. The game is entirely unsupported [since the development studio who created it went bust 2 decades ago] and is provided on a “best efforts” basis, meaning any user reports are the only thing that can be used [there are no official sources because they would be based on the original launch in 1998 which is irrelevant here], as there is no development by anyone, other than “does the game start on modern windows? If not, fix the bug”, which is done primarily by GOG. Does this change anything for you in this regard? Thank you. — CitroenLover (talk) 12:29, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
 * The actual facts of a situation don't matter much to Wikipedia; ultimately the only thing that matters is if WP:RS thought it was a serious enough problem to write about. Verifiability is more important than truth. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 19:35, 12 September 2023 (UTC)

Proofread request for article "List of video game modes"
I would greatly appreciate proofreading and suggestions. Thanks! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft_talk:List_of_video_game_modes#Suggestions/_Preparation_to_be_AcceptedUnexpectedSmoreInquisition (talk) 21:57, 12 September 2023 (UTC)

New Metacritic design, platform-specific links broken
Since yesterday, Metacritic has a new design. As part of this, the site has changed its overview format from one page per platform per game to just one per game. For example, Grand Theft Auto V currently links to the following platform-specific URLs: https://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-3/grand-theft-auto-v https://www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-360/grand-theft-auto-v https://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-4/grand-theft-auto-v ... If you access any of them now, they will lead you here: https://www.metacritic.com/game/grand-theft-auto-v/ Regardless of which link you used, the platform shown will be the PlayStation 4 (97/100 at 66 reviews). The score shown by default seems to that generated from the most reviews, regardless of whether it has the best score (see an example where the lesser score has more reviews). This effectively breaks our links for the vast majority of multi-platform games. The platform-specific scores can still be found on the overview pages with all reviews, but again under a new link scheme. Previously, you would have accessed them like so: https://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-3/grand-theft-auto-v/critic-reviews Now, this was changed to: https://www.metacritic.com/game/grand-theft-auto-v/critic-reviews/?platform=playstation-3 This begs the question: Do we need to update these links for all game articles? Do we need to mark them as dead? Should either of these be a bot task? IceWelder &#91; &#9993; &#93; 10:17, 13 September 2023 (UTC)


 * My guess is that it should be a task for a bot to update all links to the correct format. It seems like it would be simple to do a find and replace and it's not a case where the link actually died. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 10:39, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't think it's as easy ans f&r because you'd want to merge some citations on multi-platform games, archived refs would need to be re-archived, and I already found one case where the name-in-link was changed with no working redirect. IceWelder  &#91; &#9993; &#93; 13:36, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
 * It's not a big deal. All the info is right there on the main page now.  The only thing missing is the autogenerated text ("mixed or average reviews"), which can still be accessed from that page, even if you need to manually click on each platform to see it.  I didn't like the new interface the first time I saw it, and I had visions of having to restore hundreds of broken links.   I think it may make things easier for us, though, because of how central most of the information is.  If they just fixed it so that the autogenerated text appeared for all the platforms on the main page, it'd be perfect. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 03:11, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
 * If NinjaRobotPirate doesn't think it's a big deal than neither do I. Panini!  • 🥪 03:21, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Would be a good thing for people to go through their articles at their convenience and fix, but yeah it's not a critical issue to fix. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs  talk 13:55, 14 September 2023 (UTC)

Input on possible name change of an article
As the article belongs to the WikiProject Video games, I thought I share my thoughts in here. I recently reworked the article about the German Computer Game Awards (Deutscher Computerspielpreis). I already opened a topic about a possible name change at the talk page a couple of months ago and got no response (the options are now outdated though).

There is currently one non-german source that refers to the award as the German Computer Game Awards while the German Games Industry Association game also uses that translation on their official page. Examples that translate the original language into English are the Czech Game of the Year Awards or Slovak Game of the Year Awards.

Can anyone share their thoughts on this? Or maybe tell me what steps I should take on other than using a talk page? I have no previous experience on renaming / moving articles. Thanks! Vestigium Leonis (talk) 23:29, 17 September 2023 (UTC)


 * I think that, as well as this, is good enough to invoke WP:USEENGLISH. You have to start a WP:RM discussion on the article talk page if you want it to be seriously discussed. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 02:52, 18 September 2023 (UTC)
 * It looks like there is no serious discussion needed. I will check the beginner guide on how to move a page and will do it soon. Thanks! Vestigium Leonis (talk) 08:15, 18 September 2023 (UTC)
 * If anything, it should be "German Computer Game Award" (singular) per the few English pages the award's site features. IceWelder  &#91; &#9993; &#93; 08:20, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

3O requested - Notability met for Defold?
Please see Draft_talk:Defold, looking for a relatively quick support/oppose discussion on whether sourcing has reached levels appropriate for WP:NPRODUCT. The question is whether enough sustained sigcov has been found. Unfortunately there is a LOT of non-independent sourcing here, but I think we've gotten a good set of sources lined up. The article needs carefully handling due to very heavy COI editing. -- ferret (talk) 18:22, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

New Articles (September 11 to September 17)
A listing of all articles newly added to the Video Games Wikiproject (regardless of creation date). Generated by v3.15 of the RecentVGArticles script and posted by PresN. Bug reports and feature requests are appreciated. -- Pres N  20:12, 18 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Articles deleted/removed: Draft:DLsite, Draft:Hannah Telle, Petz Rescue: Ocean Patrol, SSSniperWolf, Farcana, Draft:FilthyGhost, Final Horizon, Draft:Lab42 Games, Melon Chan's Growth Diary, Draft:House Builder, Draft:Kuro Game, Draft:Mentally Insane Studios, Draft:List of GamesMaster episodes, Draft:Lightbulb Crew, Draft:Joseph Balderrama 2, Draft:Professor Layton and the New World of Steam, Draft:Young Horses Games, Draft:Ascendant Studios, Rise of the Video Game, Draft:War Commander Rogue Assault
 * Articles redirected: Nuke (video games), Strike Fighters 2: Vietnam, Alhambra (video game), Doraemon 2: SOS! Otogi no Kuni, Param (company), Characters of The King of Fighters series
 * Categories deleted/removed: Zero-G shooters, AIAS Game of the Year winners, D.I.C.E. Award for Action Game of the Year winners, D.I.C.E. Award for Adventure Game of the Year winners, D.I.C.E. Award for Family Game of the Year winners, D.I.C.E. Award for Fighting Game of the Year winners, D.I.C.E. Award for Game of the Year winners, D.I.C.E. Award for Online Game of the Year winners, D.I.C.E. Award for Outstanding Achievement in Animation winners, D.I.C.E. Award for Outstanding Achievement in Art Direction winners, D.I.C.E. Award for Outstanding Achievement in Audio Design winners, D.I.C.E. Award for Outstanding Achievement in Game Design winners, D.I.C.E. Award for Outstanding Achievement in Original Music Composition winners, D.I.C.E. Award for Outstanding Achievement in Story winners, D.I.C.E. Award for Outstanding Technical Achievement winners, D.I.C.E. Award for Racing Game of the Year winners, D.I.C.E. Award for Role-Playing Game of the Year winners, D.I.C.E. Award for Sports Game of the Year winners, D.I.C.E. Award for Strategy/Simulation Game of the Year winners, D.I.C.E. Award winners, Games with tank controls, Interactive Achievement Award winners
 * Templates deleted/removed: AC Monza sections
 * New categories: A Sharp games —, East2West Games games —  , XOR Corporation games —  , Lists of fighting game characters —
 * New templates: D4DJ —

<div style="line-height:1.4em !important"> September 11
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September 12
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September 13
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September 14
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September 15
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 * Non-notable. Redirected. Negative  MP1  20:33, 18 September 2023 (UTC)
 * (newly tagged – originally created 4 years ago)
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 * (newly tagged – originally created 4 years ago)

September 16

September 17
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 * AfD'ed. soetermans . ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 20:20, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

List of video games with PS1-style tank controls seems like a very notable list. -- Pres N  20:12, 18 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Apple Inc. being tagged just recently is neat, an article that was made in 2002. That might be a record. Panini!  • 🥪 15:38, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Maybe! We've had "21 years ago" 3 other times- George Lucas, Demoscene, and WarGames, but I haven't checked where in the year range they actually fell. -- Pres N  15:43, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I checked out of curiosity, since this would also make the winner the oldest article recognized by WPVG:
 * WarGames: First edit 06:01, 24 January 2002‎
 * Apple Inc.: First edit 08:19, 3 November 2001‎
 * Demoscene: First edit 10:27, 11 October 2001‎
 * George Lucas: First edit 14:50, 2 July 2001‎
 * I'm curious why George Lucas the article is recognized by the project at all. He's only tangentially related to video games due to the property he's made (it would be as if JK Rowling was under the project because of all the Harry Potter games), and the word "video game" isn't even mentioned in his article. Am I missing a better connection between the two?
 * According to these stats (if I'm wrong about Lucas), that would also make User:Koyaanis Qatsi the first honorary member of WPVG. Panini!  • 🥪 16:11, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Lucas really shouldn't be tagged, as you mention, and I've removed it. Apple Inc. does seem valid as they've become a pretty huge player in the gaming space, albeit not in the realm more traditionally covered by game journalism (and Wikipedia, for that matter.) Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs  talk 16:20, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Therefore:
 * WarGames: First edit 06:01, 24 January 2002
 * Apple Inc.: First edit 08:19, 3 November 2001
 * Demoscene: First edit 10:27, 11 October 2001
 * User:AlexWasFirst is the first honorary member of WPVG! Panini!  • 🥪 16:47, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
 * In terms of the gap from when it was created to when it was tagged:
 * WarGames: 24 January 2002—19 March 2023: 21 years, 1 month, 23 days
 * Demoscene: 11 October 2001—24 December, 2022: 21 years, 2 months, 13 days
 * Apple Inc.: 3 November 2001—13 September, 2023: 21 years, 10 months, 10 days
 * So you're right, Apple has had the largest gap so far from creation to tagging. -- Pres N  17:00, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
 * The oldest VG article overall will likely be Video game itself. The history goes back to March 2001 where some kind of merge occurred, so it will have been even older than that. IceWelder  &#91; &#9993; &#93; 21:33, 20 September 2023 (UTC)

←) Any opinions on F-Zero 99? Keep as is or redirect? Sudden announcement and release so lack of significant coverage. I believe there will be a slow and steady release of reviews, but still seems like it will stay a small article that can neatly fit on F-Zero (video game). « Ryūkotsusei »  18:43, 19 September 2023 (UTC)


 * I think it's fine as a stand alone. I've seen a lot of coverage, and there's a fair amount of sourcing and content on the articles. My two cents - an attempt to merge it would likely lead to drawn out discussions that would result in the article being kept. Sergecross73   msg me  20:19, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I would say that the game has definitely received enough coverage to meet GNG. QuicoleJR (talk) 17:41, 20 September 2023 (UTC)

Alphabetical order at Wikipedia:WikiProject Video games/Requests
Is it possible to put everything In Alphabetical order at WikiProject Video games/Requests instead of month/year added? I think that would make it easier to navigate.(my opinion) Timur9008 (talk) 10:57, 13 September 2023 (UTC)


 * I am not sure I'd support this, because the date listing emphasizes that the older ones have been waiting longer and should be done sooner. I don't see an obvious purpose behind an alphabetical listing (and it can be searched with Ctrl+F) ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 20:06, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm not opposed per se, but the list is pretty long, and I wouldn't think it's worth the time and energy to make that change. (Unless you waited until the list was trimmed way down...but I don't know how likely that is either - never seems like the Request Board ever catches on all that widely...) Sergecross73   msg me  21:08, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I do think that retro games should have their own section. The sheer amount of shovelware older games that have been added is liable to drown out the newer titles and make it intimidating to tackle the list. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 22:04, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
 * It could probably use another review and culling of unlikely article creations again. In the past there have been editors who spammed added a lot of rather "iffy" articles idea suggestions on there that are unlikely to ever be created (and/or be in a pretty iffy state if anyone attempted to create them.) Sergecross73   msg me  03:29, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
 * User:NinjaRobotPirate/Games is a semi-curated list of recently released games. You can sort it by a number of different headers, including title, release date, number of user reviews on Steam, and genre.  I also listed most of the info you need to write the article. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 03:51, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
 * This is a fantastic idea! As an article creator of indie games, this is particularly useful for me to leverage. ＶＲＸＣＥＳ (talk) 04:48, 14 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Can we address the elephant in the room that the overwhelming majority of the entries are 1980s computer games that were added by two editors, one of whom is banned. These games are virtually lost to time, only covered by contemporary sources that are difficult to acquire. *Nobody* has any desire to work these requests, so they just accumulate and clog the list. I do understand a lot of work was put into compiling those entries, but its becoming difficult to discern which requests may be different and worth pursuing. I propose moving 1980s computer games to its own section on the page. TarkusAB talk / contrib 17:43, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, this is what I was alluding to above. I support this. I know that personally, I keep a list of drafts I'm actively planning on working on...and then another list that are essentially "abandoned ideas" that I don't really realistically see myself doing anymore, but I still keep around because I hate to delete the work I did in source hunting. Maybe we need to do something like that? Some sort of old/stale/abandoned/unlikely type section? Sergecross73   msg me  17:58, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Perhaps the list should include a sort option for release year. I want to avoid arbitrarily splitting the requests if possible. I think this way, everybody wins. If we reorganize the list as a table too, it can be sorted alphabetically or by date added.
 * {| class="wikitable sortable plainrowheaders"

!scope="col" | Requested !scope="col" | Article !scope="col" | Release year !scope="col" class="unsortable" | Sources !scope="col" class="unsortable" | Notes
 * 2023-09-14
 * Super Mario Bros.
 * 1985
 * 
 * Put notes here
 * 2023-09-14
 * Super Mario 64
 * 1996
 * 
 * Put notes here
 * 2023-09-14
 * Shigeru Miyamoto
 * N/A
 * 
 * Put notes here
 * }
 * I will volunteer to do this. I have some upcoming time off work in the coming week. What do people think? Courtesy ping  TarkusAB talk / contrib 19:16, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Although not strictly a requests page, I have made User:BOZ/BTG reviews noticeboard as a way of cataloguing independent sources for specific games that could possibly one day be used to build articles. I have been thinking that the VG space could use something like that too (as either a replacement for, or in addition to WP:VGR). I definitely don't have the time to put that together, unfortunately, but if you want to use any ideas from my userpage that would be fine. :) BOZ (talk) 19:28, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I was going to recommend a table like this, especially considering the ability to organize by release year and request date. Maybe we could add an additional way to organize, such as the console it released for? I think that would also inspire people to take a look at it. Panini!  • 🥪 16:24, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
 * (I would like to mention that Shigeru Miyamoto released in 1952. It's release was overlooked at first but it started to be recognized as a cult classic somewhere around 1977.) Panini!  • 🥪 23:32, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Although not strictly a requests page, I have made User:BOZ/BTG reviews noticeboard as a way of cataloguing independent sources for specific games that could possibly one day be used to build articles. I have been thinking that the VG space could use something like that too (as either a replacement for, or in addition to WP:VGR). I definitely don't have the time to put that together, unfortunately, but if you want to use any ideas from my userpage that would be fine. :) BOZ (talk) 19:28, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I was going to recommend a table like this, especially considering the ability to organize by release year and request date. Maybe we could add an additional way to organize, such as the console it released for? I think that would also inspire people to take a look at it. Panini!  • 🥪 16:24, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
 * (I would like to mention that Shigeru Miyamoto released in 1952. It's release was overlooked at first but it started to be recognized as a cult classic somewhere around 1977.) Panini!  • 🥪 23:32, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

Update
 * I have completed the first steps of revamping the VG Requests page. I replaced the old list with a sortable table, so you can sort by date requested, article title, release year, or original platform. I have started entering in the release years and platforms, but this is taking time. This brings me to my next point.
 * The list is long. There are 484 requests on the page as of today. There's a large chunk that are 1980s computer games, another large chunk that are modern indie games, and then "the rest".
 * I just want people to know I'm going to go through the list and remove low effort requests. That is, requests that don't provide enough sources so someone can easily complete the request without having to worry about GNG and finding more sources. Some requests only link to questionable sources, or websites that have barely any information. And some requests only link to Moby Games or Metacritic, and the critics they used are few in number or unreliable. Stuff like that. TarkusAB talk / contrib 04:14, 19 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Nice work. MobyGames has an API, it might be easier to go through and extract the year/platform information from that. Though I support the removal of low effort stuff regardless. ― <kbd style="font-size:85%"><b style="color:#270;rotate:-2deg;display:inline-block">novov</b> (t   c)  11:46, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Good work Timur9008 (talk) 11:47, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
 * It looks incredible Tarkus!
 * I do agree with you striking ones without enough linked sources. I support just removing them from the list if there aren't enough sources without even checking to see if there's more out there, just for the sake of bringing down the count in this refresh. Panini!  • 🥪 15:36, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I am so ok with seeing the requests getting pared down. It's been a bane for me for years. Especially with the five year old requests ln there. GamerPro64  23:10, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I want to give a special thank you to who finished the grueling work of adding in the original platforms and release years. The request page is now a lot more useful and I implore everyone to check it out.  TarkusAB talk / contrib 06:27, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

Pokemon Scarlet and Violet: The Hidden Treasure of Area Zero
There is currently a discussion on the talk page as to whether or not this DLC deserves an article now that some of it has released. I myself am abstaining from the vote since I don't want to be spoiled from the plot of the DLC. ― <b style="background:#0d1125;color:#51aeff;padding:1q;border-radius:5q;">Blaze Wolf</b>Talk<sub title="Discord Username" style="margin-left:-22q;">blaze&#95;&#95;wolf 19:06, 21 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Perhaps I can blank out the plot for now as a compromise? Visokor (talk) 19:09, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

Software infobox for open source games
Hi everyone,

I noticed that occasionally open source games use the, as in Freeciv for instance. Shouldn't these use ? It lists more technical information, which might be more suitable for an open source (or open software) game, but I do not see the benefits of listing coding languages, stable releases, etc. Thoughts? soetermans. ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 12:44, 22 September 2023 (UTC)


 * A great deal of such examples were done by Shaddim and Codename Lisa, both indef blocked by the community at this time and much of it since reverted. However this particular case was switched from Infobox VG to Infobox Software back in 2007... by another indefinite blocked user. I don't have a strong feeling on it, it can be looked at case by case, but the short answer is it's a video game using a different infobox to provide fields that have been judged unnecessary or inappropriate for video game articles (on basis of MOS:VG and Infobox video game). I would say take a look at the secondary sourcing. Is it focusing on the game as game? Or as a project/development effort? The article is drenched in primary and unreliable/userg sources right now. -- ferret (talk) 12:56, 22 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I would tend to argue that with true open source projects, fewer of the fields in the VG infobox will be able to filled in (no publisher, rarely any individual credits, etc.) while the software infobox is more complete. You get unusual situations like Rogue (video game) which got commercially published later and thus has a VG infobox.
 * I would say that we should follow approach like selection of date or English variety - don't change it from what the original author had included without engaging in consensus for that change on the talk page. M asem (t) 13:14, 22 September 2023 (UTC)
 * @Masem If that's how we should do it, for this particular case the original infobox was the VG one. But the change over was long long ago. -- ferret (talk) 13:31, 22 September 2023 (UTC)
 * If the change was made yesterday and the user indef blocked, changing it back is fine, but with the age of that change, it is still better to seek consensus to change. But I do think that it is best as a page-by-page decision of which infobox gives the better "picture" of what the game is. M asem (t) 14:13, 22 September 2023 (UTC)
 * With the Freeciv example, what is the benefit of the software infobox? Stable/beta releases is arguably something we shouldn't cover at all, and certainly don't cover for games, stuff like the git repo is irrelevant since there's already an official link for the site on the page, the languages are irrelevant unless significantly covered by secondary sources, etc. Seems like bloat that would be solved with a video game infobox in this case. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs  talk 20:12, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

Articles for deletion/Recurring elements in the Final Fantasy series
As in the article link, Recurring elements in the Final Fantasy series has been nominated for deletion. Bringing up here and at the Square Enix WikiProject so general and specific input can be brought. I'm not sure how to go with this, and the tone of the nom kinda threw me off speaking honestly. If it ends up being deleted, all well and good, but comments required. ProtoDrake (talk) 12:52, 25 September 2023 (UTC)

Requested second reviewer at Talk:Mario Party 10/GA1
The current reviewer, Cukie Gherkin, is unable to finish the review due to IRL conflicts. Is someone willing to pick up and complete the review? Panini! • 🥪 00:08, 27 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Taken. IceWelder  &#91; &#9993; &#93; 18:47, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

The Day of Sigma
I've been trying to expand Mega Man Maverick Hunter X but I'm kinda not sure about something. Once the player beats the game, they have access to a 30 minute episode based on the villain's past. Should I elaborate about the episode's plot somewhere like the plot section? Cheers.Tintor2 (talk) 22:01, 19 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Hello, Tintor. If you're asking if the episode is relevant, I would go yes (as long as it can be properly sourced.) However, if you're asking where it should be put, maybe a subsection to plot? Nobody expects the UnexpectedSmoreInquisition (talk)! 04:04, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

Counter-Strike 2
Please see Talk:Counter-Strike: Global Offensive. It's unclear how we need to handle this, as CS2 has replaced CS:GO (similar to OW1->OW2). For Dota and Dota Reborn, they were ultimately treated as the same game. For OW1 and OW2, OW2 was clearly intended to be a separate game that instead became an update. CS2 has always been worded by Valve as a "Update" to CS:GO, so... please weigh in. -- ferret (talk) 20:50, 27 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Definitely a tricky one. I would count it as deserving of a separate article à la Overwatch 2. As far as I'm aware, Overwatch 1 and 2 are essentially the same, albeit revamps, which is how I see the CS2 situation. ALSO, the most important thing to note is both games are/were replacing the original servers, and both were marketed similarly (as a big update.) Just my take. Nobody expects the UnexpectedSmoreInquisition (talk)! 04:14, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Just noticed OW was referring to Overwatch, and you basically said what I did. Whoops. Nobody expects the UnexpectedSmoreInquisition (talk)! 04:16, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

Using box art images
Hi, I'm wanting to edit the Purr Pals page to include an image of the back box art, but not sure how to navigate it regarding copyright and licensing. I've posted on that talk page, but just to paste it here for ease:

I want to add this box art image to show the back cover for the game. I am aware that the game cover itself is likely copyrighted material, and I also am not sure how the licensing works being derived from GameFAQs as well. I saw that there's this page on the cover licensing rights, but am not sure how simple or nuanced it would be to add an image from another source.

Thanks :] <>< AnteaterStim (talk) 11:26, 23 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Unless there is some significant discussion from sources about the back cover of a game, we never include back cover art. The front cover is used for identification of the game and is allowed, but that's it. --M asem (t) 13:23, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Masem and @Zxcvbnm - got it, thank you for letting me know.
 * @Sergecross73 my reasoning was that it contains some information about the gameplay so would be a direct source to show, and in general would just be more data to show to 'flesh out' the article. However with reasoning given by others, yeah I won't do that - I'll just try and source the information otherwise.
 * Thanks! <>< AnteaterStim (talk) 19:33, 25 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Let's say the back of the box says "Contains over 40 rad levels!" and it's the only place that info is stated, you can technically source it to the game without actually using the image in question. It's fairly rare that the back of the box has useful information (at least compared to, say, the manual) but in any event, the image itself doesn't have to be used. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 19:44, 25 September 2023 (UTC)
 * This topic piqued my interest, as I recently drafted an article (which was rejected, under mutual agreement that the article was not independently notable) called "list of video game modes." Now, this is a theoretical discussion as I scrapped the draft, but would back art have been appropriate to showcase various "modes?" Nobody expects the UnexpectedSmoreInquisition (talk)! 05:08, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
 * The box information is not always 100% accurate, so we should not do that. IceWelder  &#91; &#9993; &#93; 07:57, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Why did you want to do that? Sergecross73   msg me  14:02, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
 * There's pretty much no reason to ever add back cover art unless it's specifically discussed, that would go against fair use (using the minimum copyrighted images necessary). ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 17:21, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
 * MobyGames is permitted as an external link via template (which has a cover database). IgelRM (talk) 23:32, 23 September 2023 (UTC)

Use of Virtual Console categories
Some pages uses both Category:Virtual Console games and one of its subcategory (such as Category:Virtual Console games for Nintendo 3DS). On the other hand, there are some pages that use just the subcategory, such as Pokémon Gold, Silver and Crystal. Should the main category be used or not? Redjedi23 (talk) 13:43, 28 September 2023 (UTC)


 * If my understanding is correct, and someone please jump in if it isn't, Category:Virtual Console games for Nintendo 3DS is a subcategory of Category:Virtual Console games, therefore anything tagged under the for Nintendo 3DS category is automatically under Virtual Console games. It should be one or the other, but not both.  - Skipple   ☎  13:47, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't believe the main category should be used. And it's a fair subcategorization, otherwise the games would clog up the lists of games for each platform that aren't Virtual Console. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 13:53, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Oh, I agree. The category with higher specificity should be used. I took the question to ask: should both categories be used.  - Skipple   ☎  14:05, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Per WP:SUBCAT, I would think not. Membership of the subcategory implies membership of the parent category. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 15:27, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

Potentially incorrect information surrounding Dino Dini
It's been drawn to my attention that Dino Dini has made a brand-new post on LinkedIn, specifically refuting content from several Wikipedia pages - namely his and Kick Off (series) - which originated from an interview with Steve Screech (ref). With the validity of Screech's claims called into question, do we have grounds for removing the content that states that he is the originator of Kick Off?  BOTTO ( T • C ) 22:38, 26 September 2023 (UTC)


 * WP:PRIMARY states that, "Primary sources that have been reputably published may be used in Wikipedia". I am not sure this "One Up Gaming" channel counts as "reputably published", so the info probably shouldn't have been there to begin with. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 23:30, 26 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Every claim about Steve Screech seems to be unreliably sourced or attributed directly to him. The very wording on how this is inserted (paraphrasing) that "Dino Dini did this based on a 'Steve Screech idea'" is really suspicious. Purge it. It was added by an IP here, here and here. A related edit, here, makes this start to feel like it was wave of promotional editing. All that aside... Dino Dini's post seems to be... slightly off on the details about all this. None of these articles claim Screech designed anything. The only claim is essentially that he had an "idea". Probably should still be removed but there's no claim that "he designed it". -- ferret (talk) 23:45, 26 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your input, guys. Very quickly, an IP address,, has begun edit-warring and is making personal attacks against Dini.  BOTTO ( T • C ) 16:11, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
 * @Botto A suspicious geolocate. For now I've watchlisted the page, as warnings have been issued and no edits since. -- ferret (talk) 17:11, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Ah, I had not checked the location. The reason I made my own warning is that they restored the content after had warned them. You're right, of course; let's watch what happens, as I anticipate they won't let this go.  BOTTO ( T • C ) 17:16, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

MinnMax notability
Hi everyone,

I'm a little rusty, how do we establish/check notability for a website? MinnMax is on my watchlist and it just popped up. It reads like an ad and I'd be happy to copy-edit it, but I don't know if it's worth keeping it at all. soetermans. ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 11:15, 29 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Same as for every subject: publications wholly unrelated to MinnMax need to have written about it. Most of the sources used in this article are primary or unreliable, but maybe there's two or three proper reliable independent sources among them? Looks very suspicious, yeah... ~ Maplestrip/Mable ( chat ) 11:38, 29 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm unfamiliar with the subject, so correct me if I'm wrong, but with the way it currently refers to the subject as a company, I would think WP:CORPDEPTH would apply as well. (Though, like many of the specialized notability guidelines, that's really just another extrapolation of the GNG.) Sergecross73   msg me  14:03, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

Portal:Video games
I'd like to float a discussion here to the project, regarding the maintenance and continued existence of Portal:Video games. With over 110,000 incoming links, it is one of the most linked subject specific portals and garners relatively high views compared to many others. Unfortunately, "relatively" means those 110,000 links result in only 200 views a day. A few years ago, much of the portal infrastructure was revamped and automated, so that the front pages would not require constant maintenance. However, it still requires various subpages to be populated and updated. The FA and GA sections stay up-to-date because they feed off our own maintained project subpages. However, the "Selected Pictures" are fed by a subpage that doesn't seem to have been maintained since ~2008-2009. The DKY list seems to have not been updated since it was created in 2016. The "This month in video gaming" subpages appear to have gone unmaintained since ~2008-2009 as well. The "Selected Topics" haven't been updated since ~2012-2014 (This one is difficult to check as it requires looking at dozens of subpages). The "General Images" carousel is fed by just 5 pages and essentially static (Early history of video games, History of video games, History of arcade video games, History of video game consoles, Video game).

This project is, nominally, responsible for maintaining this portal. So the question is... do we want to? Are we going to? If the project has a consensus that this portal will not or is not maintained, I plan to submit an MfD for it's deletion. To be clear, this discussion itself cannot result in the portal being deleted. It's to gauge where the project sits before going to the wider community for MfD. -- ferret (talk) 15:28, 25 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I find portals in general to be pointless, and unmaintained ones even more so. I'd be in favor of deleting this. -- Pres N  17:21, 25 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Same. I feel they're like categories as in editors greatly overestimate their use by general readership. Most people probably don't even know they exist. Sergecross73   msg me  18:53, 25 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Seconded. I've never seen a point in portals and I wouldn't be mad if they were deprecated project-wide. Let's start by deleting this one. IceWelder  &#91; &#9993; &#93; 22:07, 25 September 2023 (UTC)
 * It is never discussed. It is not maintained. It serves no purpose. Delete. TarkusAB talk / contrib 19:28, 25 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I agree with deleting it. It's clearly not serving its intended purpose, both in terms of features (a lot has changed in video gaming since the various sections were maintained) and in terms of readership. ― <kbd style="font-size:85%"><b style="color:#270;rotate:-2deg;display:inline-block">novov</b> (t   c)  21:35, 25 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Down with the portals! Revolution! per nom. Panini!  • 🥪 21:48, 25 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Keep Maybe it's running on fumes, but 300 views still means 300 people believe the Video Games Portal is an interesting thing to click on. The philosophy of Wikipedia is to WP:BEBOLD, which means, why not do the maintenance other people didn't? You'd be making those 300 people happier rather than saddening them that the portal is now gone. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 22:01, 25 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Being bold is about making edits you want to make without agonizing over it, because they can always be fixed if there's an issue. It's not "do things you don't want to do and don't want to volunteer for". If no one is doing the work, it languishes and is a disservice to anyone clicking on it. People click because we have over 110,000 articles that show a highlighted navigation box saying "Go here!". It's unfortunate all we know is they clicked and not how disappointed they were. -- ferret (talk) 22:06, 25 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I keep re-reading ferret's original comment trying to figure which part of it would inspire this sort of response. They're laying out a case for its overall irrelevance and deletion, and you suggest they clean it up instead? What? Sergecross73   msg me  22:20, 25 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I agree with the others. Never knew the portal(s) existed, and it appears that this portal is relatively unknown by even Wikipedia users, judging by the fact that it has only 200 views a day despite over 100,000+ pages having a link to it somewhere. Seeing that it has hardly been updated in years. unless someone intends to steward it for a long time in the future, I would delete it/mark it as historical.  The Night Watch     (talk)   22:14, 25 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete it. Anything salvageable can be moved into the WikiProjet page instead (or perhaps Outline of video games), although I'm not sure there's even anything to salvage.  (Alternatively, redirecting to Portal:Games is acceptable, with it being a hard redirect that only a DRV could reverse.)  SnowFire (talk) 00:53, 26 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Personally I feel redirecting it would just be confusing; theoretically "video games" is a subset of "games" but in practice there isn't much overlap wrt the portals from a quick glance. ― <kbd style="font-size:85%"><b style="color:#270;rotate:-2deg;display:inline-block">novov</b>  (t   c)  09:58, 26 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Portal:Games isn't maintained either, so I don't think there'd be anybody to complain if we threw in some video game related links there. (And the assumption is that people would only ever see links to the Portal when looking at old revisions in the history anyway, since we'd presumably run some mass-removal script.)  SnowFire (talk) 15:22, 26 September 2023 (UTC)
 * "Portal:Games isn't maintained either" sounds like it should also be deleted and not coatracked with more unmaintained content. In the past 90 days, it received 30 daily views on average, despite thousands of links to it. IceWelder  &#91; &#9993; &#93; 15:17, 27 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I think that old readers will directly igonre Portal links. The page has no relation to the article, and it is useless and tedious (do not have recent news etc.). But for our WikiProject, the Portal seems a thing to lead new editors to join us? -- Lopullinen 14:04, 26 September 2023 (UTC)


 * It has so many inbound links and still gets some views, and it is a pretty nice "front page for video games on wikipedia". Maybe we should just remove the sections whose maintenance cannot be automated. Ben · Salvidrim!   &#9993;  04:11, 26 September 2023 (UTC)
 * If you do that, it basically just becomes WP:VG. -- ferret (talk) 14:11, 26 September 2023 (UTC)
 * The way I see it, WPVG is for editors, Portal:VG is for readers. Does that make sense? Ben · Salvidrim!   &#9993;  02:52, 27 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Of course, but once you strip out the unmaintained sections, they have identical content. Might as well be a redirect at that point. -- ferret (talk) 14:30, 27 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Toss it. It's functionally not serving anyone (200 people clicking it a day ≠ 200 people deriving use from it. Bounce rates on pages in general is high, I expect it's even higher for something like portals.) Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs  talk 15:24, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

MFD
MFD'd: Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Video games -- ferret (talk) 20:19, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

New Articles (September 18 to September 24)
A listing of all articles newly added to the Video Games Wikiproject (regardless of creation date). Generated by v3.15 of the RecentVGArticles script and posted by PresN. Bug reports and feature requests are appreciated. -- Pres N  20:26, 25 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Articles deleted/removed: Candace Kane's Candy Factory, Draft:Numolition, Picture Perfect Hair Salon, Draft:Car Mechanic Simulator 2021, Milkshape 3D, Draft:Royal Match, Draft:Storm Connections, Aradhya Malhotra, AndEngine, Carry Lab, Draft:Spongebob Drive (video game franchise), Endoparasitic (video game), Draft:Open Surge, Draft:Planet DOB
 * Articles redirected: Major League Baseball 2K9 Fantasy All-Stars, KFConsole, Wii Fit Trainer, Development of Cyberpunk 2077, List of video games markets by country, EA App, GoldenEye (1995 video game)
 * Templates deleted/removed: Blood (Monolith Productions), Red vs. Blue
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 * I'm..uh...no expert on the subject matter, but should those two similarly themed 'Pokemon'' articles be merged? Sergecross73   msg me  22:28, 25 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I translated the doujinshi incident page from ja.wiki. IMO, it's independently notable, having had a great impact on the doujinshi industry and receiving significant coverage in Japanese. If it was merged, I think it would be a little strange for the Pokémon and pornography article, which is a more general topic, to talk so extensively about a specific 1999 incident. At the moment, I think it has enough content to be its own article. Skyshifter   talk  22:41, 25 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Gotcha. Both are pretty short, so I just felt like the "content area" was being spread a bit thin is all. Sergecross73   msg me  23:12, 25 September 2023 (UTC)
 * While I am unsure if there's a good place to merge them right now, I think we'd be far better off with a Cultural impact of Pokémon article that includes such subject matter within it than an article like that with such a limited scope. It would be structured in the same way as others from Category:Cultural impact by work. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 04:23, 26 September 2023 (UTC)

There are some weird redirects after the creation of recent Sims 2 expansion articles: The Sims 2: Pets (old), The Sims 2: Nightlife (old), The Sims 2: Open for Business (old), The Sims 2: University (old). Should their histories be merged? --Mika1h (talk) 00:08, 26 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Yeah... that's uh, not really the way it should have been done. this isn't really proper. The old pages should be moved back, and then a proper histmerge done. -- ferret (talk) 00:13, 26 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Sure, yep -- do whatever needs doing. There's not many good non-admin ways to manage the histories here, so my intent was to move them out of the way while working on the articles (which I originally only intended to take a week or so) then request histmerges once that was done. I still expect the whole series will be done in a couple weeks or so, so I was still planning on making that req once it was finished. Having said that, to make it clear, currently the main The Sims 2 expansion packs article needs those histories pointed there for attribution, because it was made of merging those versions -- I'm not sure it'd be proper to do the histmerges right now while that article hasn't yet been rewritten? Genuinely 'not sure', to be clear.
 * Also, is there some way to turn off notifications for these without muting Pres? <b style="color:black">Vaticidal</b><b style="color:#66023C">prophet</b> 00:29, 26 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I've just added a bit to the script to not tag specific people, with your username included, so next time you won't be notified. -- Pres N  00:44, 26 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Wait, sorry, to explain the situation in further depth:
 * The Sims 2 expansion packs was created by merging all of those old versions into a single article (with no further edits to listify), so it needs their histories pointed there for attribution
 * The re-split articles have no content from the old versions
 * The main list is still "all the old versions straight down in order", though once the series itself is finished it'll be rewritten into a true list
 * My understanding of how attribution works is that the histories should be pointed at the list, at least currently. Is this correct? <b style="color:black">Vaticidal</b><b style="color:#66023C">prophet</b> 00:37, 26 September 2023 (UTC)
 * The proper thing to do would have been the far simpler route: instead of splitting its history, the old article should have been retained and recreated. I'm pretty sure that, as long as a page isn't outright deleted, attribution can still occur without the page necessarily being pointed at the target, simply by using boilerplate templates to indicate as such. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 04:27, 26 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Is there some reason I shouldn't history merge the (old) versions into the non-old versions? Attribution doesn't normally care where it points as long as the page history is still accessible. * Pppery * <sub style="color:#800000">it has begun... 00:51, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
 * No there isn't, it seems like it was solely done to split the history. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 01:29, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I've done the history merge. * Pppery * <sub style="color:#800000">it has begun... 03:57, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
 * The "Old" redirects should also probably be deleted per WP:G6. They are unbelievable search terms that now serve no real purpose after the history merge. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 04:37, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

Category:Draft articles about video games
Would anyone mind if we move the category to Category:Draft articles about video games? The current wording feels very off Trade (talk) 22:27, 30 September 2023 (UTC)


 * @Trade that sounds good. What do you have in mind? Keep in mind there is a formal process for proposing category names. I will fill it out for you if you want. Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (talk to the cutest Wikipedian) 22:41, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks, please do Trade (talk) 22:48, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
 * It appears to be inline with the parent, Category:Draft articles on media, and the similar related "on comics and anime", "on films", "on musical releases", "on software", etc. -- ferret (talk) 22:42, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
 * There are also just as many categories that does not use the same naming scheme as the parent.
 * As great as it would be for the naming to be consistent, i dont this is the right place to discuss Trade (talk) 22:52, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure I follow. You just came to this project to discuss whether renaming it's category would be appropriate, and then dismiss a reason why it wouldn't be as not "the right place to discuss"? -- ferret (talk) 22:55, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't really see why it matters, as long as it's generally understandable, which it is. Sergecross73   msg me  22:56, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

Does S&box deserve a page?
A sandbox video game - conveniently titled Sandbox (video game) (s&box) - has been in development for a number of years at Facepunch, the makers of Garry's Mod. Back in 2021, a VFD consensus was to turn the page into a redirect to Facepunch. The page was recreated in July, and I just cleaned out a bunch of information about Garry's Mod that I think was extraneous, given that the two projects aren't directly connected. What was left was a page about the same size as the one that was deleted in 2021, containing some general statements. The game still hasn't come out and still doesn't have a release date.

What's the appropriate course of action here? I think the user-created content section should be deleted, given that it's fan work for a game that hasn't even come out yet. What's left after that is a block of text where half the references are to the same, primary source, the s&box website. I don't want to take this directly to the VFD chopping block just yet, both because I respect other people's work and because the game, as a major offering from a notable studio, will likely be notable when/if it comes out, but I can't say I think this would stand up to any kind of outside scrutiny. To me, too much of what's here is obviously fancruft and the rest fails the notability test at present. What do other people think? Moonreach (talk) 18:34, 27 September 2023 (UTC)


 * For now, I think WP:TOOSOON applies. Yes, it's been in development for some time, but only anecdotal sources exist. As long as there is no significant coverage, writing it up at Garry's Mod should suffice. IceWelder  &#91; &#9993; &#93; 18:41, 27 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I agree, it is WP:TOOSOON. It needs to be redirected to Garry's Mod due to lack of WP:SIGCOV. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 18:49, 27 September 2023 (UTC)
 * It's been five days, so I'm going to make the page a redirect again and put a link to this discussion for the curious. Moonreach (talk) 15:56, 2 October 2023 (UTC)

Mentioning an Xbox game is backwards-compatible with Series X/S
I've come across quite a few articles over time for games that were released for Xbox which mention in their leads that they have been made available on subsequent Xbox consoles, predominantly Series X/S, via backwards-compatibility. We list the platforms the game was released on upon or after launch, but considering we don't treat backwards-compatibility as a new release of a game and eligible for the infobox, I don't see why we need to mention what next-generation consoles it was made available on, often years after its release. Furthermore, according to the full list, more than a third of all Xbox 360 games are available on the One and Series X/S, so unless individual examples were an exception, any recognition is therefore insignificant. Wikibenboy94 (talk) 20:04, 29 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Are you talking about the lead or the infobox? TarkusAB talk / contrib 00:47, 1 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Sorry, the lead. Wikibenboy94 (talk) 17:10, 1 October 2023 (UTC)
 * It's not that unusual. I often see emulated re-releases mentioned in leads, like the Wii Virtual Console. But the release should be mentioned separately from the original and not forced into the opening sentence(s). TarkusAB talk / contrib 18:17, 2 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Ok thanks. I think most I've seen are included at the end of the lead. Wikibenboy94 (talk) 07:52, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

"id Software" or "Id Software"?
I've trialled this question a few times over the years but never to a grand response. The way we currently handle "id Software" is, technically, a violation of MOS:TMRULES, which requires that we "Capitalize trademarks, like proper names." Despite this, our usage of the lower-case name is seemingly consistent throughout the project. Is there a precedent for us not capitalizing "id"? IceWelder &#91; &#9993; &#93; 14:36, 1 October 2023 (UTC)


 * MOS:TMRULES states that "Initial lowercase in certain trademarks almost never written any other way, such as iPhone and eBay, are accepted on Wikipedia". I assume that applies in this case? ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 14:41, 1 October 2023 (UTC)
 * No MOS:TMLOWER which is lower down that page applies. Because the name is "id" (all lowercase) and not "iD" (second letter capitalised), the letter I needs to be capitalised as per "With the exception of [iPhone, eBay etc], trademarks promoted without any capitals are capitalized like any other". Which means that "Id" is the correct form. - X201 (talk) 16:21, 1 October 2023 (UTC)
 * The name is "id Software", not just "id". Case is part of the name (though seemingly not trademarked) M asem (t) 14:23, 3 October 2023 (UTC)
 * "iPhone" and "eBay" are referenced as exceptions for camelCase names; i.e. a camelCase name may begin with a lower-case character if it is the universally accepted spelling. However, "id" is not in camelCase, just plain lowercase. IceWelder  &#91; &#9993; &#93; 14:43, 3 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Just scanning over RSs that describe the company most use "id Software" over "Id Software", so it seems in this case to allow an exception to the guidance.  Spy-cicle💥   Talk? 16:49, 1 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I've tentatively reached the same conclusion; I overwhelmingly see it stylized as "id" in official sources. Moonreach (talk) 14:15, 3 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I would have said the same, but I find it weird that this would be the only company we do it for. We're not even doing it for Lego/LEGO despite it having a much stronger case (being a portmanteau). IceWelder  &#91; &#9993; &#93; 14:43, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Mirror's Edge (2010 video game)
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Mirror's Edge (2010 video game) that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 14:23, 4 October 2023 (UTC)

State of "Martha Is Dead"
I'm not very familiar with the page, but if the following request is more suited to WikiProject Cleanup, please let me know.

Earlier this year, a new account whose contributions have been solely for this article, created a draft for Martha Is Dead, apparently without realising an article for the game already existed. As the existing article was pretty thin and the draft was a lot more extensive, the decision was made to merge the draft into it. A review was then proposed to ascertain whether the merging has been done appropriately, and a template for cleanup added around the same time.

I don't know if the template was in response to this, but the article is now in a pretty poor state due to much of what was written for the draft being unnecessary, poorly-sourced (or using questionable sources), and often violating WP:NPOV, typically through puffery; I have outlined the main problems in more detail on the article's talk. Wikibenboy94 (talk) 19:25, 4 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi, I tried going over it but the article was in a horrible state. I've reverted back to before the bloat. I haven't got the time to help improve it further, but I believe there was very little worth salvaging from the most recent revision. soetermans . ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 20:13, 4 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks, and my thoughts exactly. I would have reverted it myself but thought there might have been opposition to such a bold move. Wikibenboy94 (talk) 21:17, 4 October 2023 (UTC)

Ranboo page
Some of the Dream SMP members have pages on them, and Ranboo should have one. 98.97.32.22 (talk) 18:23, 5 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Only if he can be shown to meet our notability guideline for biographies. QuicoleJR (talk) 18:36, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

New Articles (September 25 to October 1)
A listing of all articles newly added to the Video Games Wikiproject (regardless of creation date). Generated by v3.16 of the RecentVGArticles script and posted by PresN. Bug reports and feature requests are appreciated. -- Pres N  18:09, 2 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Articles deleted/removed: Draft:Wuselfaktor, Draft:Anvil Empires, Draft:Carbon Studio S.A., Draft:Filian (V-Tuber), Draft:The Thaumaturge, Draft:Gorrila Tag, Draft:Beyond Shadowgate (Zojoi), Draft:Evolution Evade - Roblox, Draft:First Encounter (podcast), Draft:Linton John Davidson, Mouth Sweet, NihongoUp, Draft:Path to Nowhere, Draft:GeorgeH (coolguy15615), List of Carry Lab games, Draft:Papa Louie (game series), List of Brawlers (Brawl Stars), List of video games with PS1-style tank controls
 * Articles redirected: Breaking Bad: Criminal Elements, Bonk's Return, Rampage (2018 video game), Random dungeon, Virtual Pool 4, Balloon Bomber, List of Famicom games
 * New categories: Gray Matter (company) games —, Esports at the 2022 Asian Games —   (newly tagged - originally created 2 months ago) , Esports players at the 2022 Asian Games —  , IGG Inc. games —  , National esports teams —  , Vogster Entertainment games —  , Gamania games —  , Cancelled PlayStation 5 games —  , Cancelled Xbox Series X and Series S games —  , Winnie the Pooh (franchise) user templates —  , Monte Cristo (company) games —  , Strange Scaffold games —  , Mooneye Studios games —  , Nimble Giant Entertainment games —  , Snowman (company) games —  , TiMi Studio Group games —

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 * I removed the WikiProject tag. There's nothing about video games in the article, I think it comes from Nishikawa being in the band Dreams Come True, which Sonic the Hedgehog composer Masato Nakamura was also a member of. soetermans . ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 04:17, 3 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Yup, sorry about that. I grabbed the project tags from Nakamura and must have missed removing the VG tag. Thanks for catching that! ··· 日本穣 ·  投稿  · Talk to Nihonjoe ·  Join WP Japan ! 16:39, 3 October 2023 (UTC)
 * no worries! It was an interesting read, thanks for creating the article. soetermans . ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 11:09, 4 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Yup, sorry about that. I grabbed the project tags from Nakamura and must have missed removing the VG tag. Thanks for catching that! ··· 日本穣 ·  投稿  · Talk to Nihonjoe ·  Join WP Japan ! 16:39, 3 October 2023 (UTC)
 * no worries! It was an interesting read, thanks for creating the article. soetermans . ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 11:09, 4 October 2023 (UTC)

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 * Pretty wild that PlayStation mentality has existed in that sorry state for so long. I'd never heard of it, and was going to ask what to do with it, but a Google search shows that it does appear to be a thing and get coverage... Sergecross73   msg me  18:19, 2 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Yep I went through the exact same process. I added a few of the meatier refs in the article to help out anyone hoping to expand it. Ben · Salvidrim!   &#9993;  19:46, 2 October 2023 (UTC)


 * I will say I am a bit bothered by all these esports articles where the only sources are primary PDFs and the only information presented is tournament results (pretty much raw data in nice-looking tables). Sometimes there's reasonable balance, but looking at Esports at the 2022 Asian Games – League of Legends, we're not a sports almanac... ~ Maplestrip/Mable ( chat ) 13:32, 3 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Agreed. I wish we could find a way to convey to newbie/casual editors that we're not, in fact, a data dump web host for all these eSports players/events. It's been a recurring issue since forever. Sergecross73   msg me  17:14, 3 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I think its natural to expect these kinds of articles to pop up, as editors see that all of the other multi-sports events have individual articles (e.g. Category:Gymnastics at the 2022 Asian Games, Category:Swimming at the 2019 Pan American Games). None of these articles have appropriate referencing to pass GNG (and I don't see anything in WP:NSPORT that apply to specific events like these). If we want articles like these to stop popping up, we would benefit from a broader discussion. – Pbrks (t • c) 18:03, 3 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Good point. I always figured they were just seeing other poorly done esports articles, but it appears poorly done tradition sports articles are probably part of the problem too... Sergecross73   msg me  19:24, 3 October 2023 (UTC)
 * It seems like every article listed in Template:Events at the 2022 Asian Games looks exactly like this. (it gets so much worse too) Trying to find last year's event I randomly ran into this one, which is the exact same story: Template:Events at the 2021 SEA Games. The Esports articles in these two templates are probably the best in the categories. Should we bring this to WT:SPORTS, or should we start up some mass deletion discussions? Perhaps sources are there of course, I haven't checked and they would be in east Asian languages... ~ Maplestrip/Mable ( chat ) 06:55, 6 October 2023 (UTC)

Doubt about the featured article New Super Mario Bros.
Hello, I want to report here this discussion: Talk:New Super Mario Bros. Redjedi23 (talk) 18:31, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

New Articles (October 2 to October 8)
A listing of all articles newly added to the Video Games Wikiproject (regardless of creation date). Generated by v3.16 of the RecentVGArticles script and posted by PresN. Bug reports and feature requests are appreciated. -- Pres N  15:09, 12 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Articles deleted/removed: Crush Crush, Draft:Experimental Penguins, Draft:Space Factory, Draft:TearRing Saga: Berwick Saga, Draft:18th Game Developers Choice Awards, Draft:Call of Duty: Warzone Mobile, Draft:Swp Anarchy, Draft:ModernWarzone, Draft:One More Game, Sudokuro, Campfire Legends, Draft:Ferrari Vision Gran Turismo, MEG: RVO, Mario Series: Bosses, PANIC at Multiverse High!, PANIC in the Multiverse!, Draft:Bruce Wayne (Arkham series character), Draft:Rabi-Ribi, List of Horizon (video game series) machines, Dream League Soccer, Draft:Naomi Ross, Draft:War Robots: Frontiers
 * Articles redirected: IMF (file format), 2 Fast 2 Furious (video game), The Fast and the Furious: Drift, The Fast and the Furious (2004 video game), History of Biology (video game), Magicite, Sandbox (video game), Breaking Bad: Criminal Elements
 * New categories: Viacom New Media games —, Video games about goats —  , Video games about sharks —  , Teenage pregnancy in video games —   (newly tagged - originally created 1 year ago) , Video games that break fourth wall —  , Pokémon navigational boxes —  , Bedtime Digital Games games —  , Deadpan Games games —  , KeokeN Interactive games —  , Malibu Games games —  , Star Trek user templates —   (newly tagged - originally created 17 years ago) , Gray Matter (company) games —
 * New templates: 11 Bit Studios —, Detective Pikachu —  , Pokémon Rumble —

<div style="line-height:1.4em !important"> October 2
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October 3
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October 4
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October 8

Was out of town, so later than usual. -- Pres N  15:09, 12 October 2023 (UTC)


 * I'm glad WPVG finally acknowledged Ruffles! They're my favorite snack. Panini!  • 🥪 16:44, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

Restructured Requests page
WikiProject Video games/Requests has gone under a complete restructuring. Please take a look. TarkusAB talk / contrib 19:25, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
 * The list was reduced from 486 to 190 requests
 * The plain text list was replaced with a table to help with filtering and navigation
 * Requests that are over a year old and are composed only of simply reviews, previews, and release information are now moved to a new archive page. This is to keep the main page focused on new requests and those with developer interviews or other interesting analysis. Archived requests are still valid and can be assessed there.

New Articles (October 9 to October 15)
A listing of all articles newly added to the Video Games Wikiproject (regardless of creation date). Generated by v3.16 of the RecentVGArticles script and posted by PresN. Bug reports and feature requests are appreciated. -- Pres N  20:40, 16 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Articles deleted/removed: At Dead of Night, Draft:Cybermania '94, Draft:Tool Tower Defense, Draft:Bloodied Fear, RE: Alistair, Draft:Curse of the Sea Rats, A Demon's Game: Episode 1, Draft:Stray Kite Studios, Draft:Cuphead: The Delicious Last Course, Discover My Body, The Baby (Resident Evil), The Prince of Landis, AvaGlide, Bulbapedia, Draft:Glatrix, Gorilla Tag, Nintendo Independent Wiki Alliance, Princess Battles, Draft:Ravenswatch (video game)
 * Articles redirected: Sims Community, Pokémon Scarlet and Violet: The Indigo Disk, Pokémon Scarlet and Violet: The Teal Mask, Forsaken (gamer), Inkling (Splatoon)
 * Categories deleted/removed: 2024 in esports
 * Templates deleted/removed: Digital rights management software
 * New categories: 428: Shibuya Scramble —, Imperia Online JSC games —  , Microsmiths games —  , Video game industry labor disputes —  , Gemdrops games —  , Headbang Club games —  , Activision employees —  , Electronic Arts subsidiaries —  , Video games designed by Hiroyuki Kanno (game designer) —

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October 13
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Splitting "year in video games" lists?
Articles like 2022 in video games tend to get very long. I propose that these articles be split into two articles. 2022 in video games can be about the general overview, awards, major events, the industry, video game tech, film adaptations, etc. Then the actual super long list of games can be split to List of video games in 2022 or List of 2022 video game releases. This would make both the general summary and the list easier to access and read without the other getting in the way. I suggest splitting all of the articles from 2001 in video games through 2024 in video games like this. Thebiguglyalien ( talk ) 22:52, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
 * It would certainly be a logical split, considering 2022 and 2023 are currently the 15th and 25th longest pages on Wikipedia, respectively, with over 500k bytes each. 2016, 2017, and 2021 are also in the top 500 with over 350k. – Rhain  ☔ (he/him) 22:59, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
 * What if I suggested that... we could just link to the categories instead. Self-populating, saves considerable effort. -- ferret (talk) 23:04, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Sadly, that split would do quite little to solve the issue. It might produce one nice-looking article about that year in gaming, but the big list would remain just as big. These big lists do seem functional and reasonable to have distinct from categories... ~ Maplestrip/Mable ( chat ) 08:55, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
 * The lists do have more info than the categories, but I agree with Ferret that splitting the pages just ends up with two pages that need updating, and doesn't actually solve the list length issue (as the list of video games is the heaviest section of the pages by far.) Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs  talk 09:08, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
 * The list of games released is often plagued with inclusion of random indie games that don't get any larger coverage, as well as re-releases (not remasters/remakes) of a game on different systems. There's lots of ways to trim those lists, and it should be considered impossible today to list every major game release. M asem (t) 13:15, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Some sort of minimum criteria would make it more workable, though I don't know what that would be. Units sold comes to mind, but that can be hard to source, and it would exclude well-known free games. Then there's a certain number of independent reviews, but even one reference per game is already a huge load on the page. And then of course, as said above, there's always removing the lists entirely. Thebiguglyalien  ( talk ) 17:41, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
 * One could always reduce the load on the page by adopting the same method or a similar one that "Deaths in YEAR" lists do: Making everyone manually type out the citation information instead of using the template wouldn't solve the length issue, but it would decrease the page load while still allowing for references that are being used for the inclusion criteria. ~Cheers,  Ten  Ton  Parasol  18:06, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I've created a script to do just this in case this is something we would like to do. – Pbrks (t • c) 00:42, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
 * The usual starting point for many LISTCRITs is to require the entries to be independently notable, with perhaps an except for those that nearly meet the bar with reliable secondary sourcing beyond simple announcements. List of Nintendo Switch games follows this, because of the sheer amount of shovelware available now on the eShop. That list does not allow primary sourcing, requiring entries to have their own article or secondary sourcing to back the entry. At the same time, the Nintendo Switch list reveals the scope of the problem. Even with the LISTCRIT limitation, for the last 3 years, the Nintendo Switch list totals well over 1500kb and is incomplete even with the LISTCRIT limitation. "B" alone had to be split and has 200kb. That means for 2021-2023, Nintendo Switch alone represents 1500kb of entries for the 3 year articles. -- ferret (talk) 18:13, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I believe that the lists should be deleted entirely without any split. The categories already exist, and notable game releases are already covered in the core article if they received a Metacritic score of 90 or higher. The article is impossible to read or edit on laptops and mobile devices due to its length and a split would not help. Negative  MP1  19:52, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
 * It seems we're divided between splitting and deleting the lists. Splitting could also involve setting inclusion criteria for the lists. Is it possible for us to settle on one of these solutions? Thebiguglyalien  ( talk ) 15:32, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
 * My two cents: I don't personally believe this will end up being deleted if its sent to WP:AFD. I think you'd get a lot of "Keep - Of course the cross-section of video games and years is notable" comments just because there are so many "(Year) in (Subject)" articles out there. Regardless of whether or not that's true or a valid argument, it tends to be how it goes for these sorts of lists. I think it would be better to try to get some inclusion criteria going or something. Trimming out games that don't have their own dedicated articles, trimming out late ports/basic remasters, splitting out platforms like PC or mobile, etc. (Just brainstorming, I'm sure there's pitfalls to any of those examples listed.) Sergecross73   msg me  16:16, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
 * My understanding of the delete option wasn't AFD the whole article but deleting the list section from the article. ~Cheers, Ten  Ton  Parasol  18:52, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Title move discussion for Luigi's Mansion: Dark Moon
Discussion is here. Many of the original voters were already on the fence of using the Dark Moon subtitle. Panini! • 🥪 19:07, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Age of Civilizations II
A old game, but please, can you create this article. It have on Turkish wiki: tr:Age of History II СтасС (talk) 00:22, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
 * There is currently a draft at Draft:Age of History II. – Pbrks (t • c) 01:38, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you!--СтасС (talk) 01:39, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
 * @СтасС Turkish article has no sources. Metacritic has no critic reviws, this may not be notable. (Also, 2018 is "old" these days? :P). <sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 03:05, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Admins en-wiki, please, delete this draft.--СтасС (talk) 16:27, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

football video game
I was adding descriptions of genras to games listed at game canon. That one doesn't exist, unless the game listed (Sensible World of Soccer) there is meant to represent the genra of Sports video game. In either case, it seems like a possible fun topic to create a new article on, if anyone is so inclined. (We have a List of association football video games and category, but no main article). Hmmm, that probably would need to be a disambig between Association and American footballs? :) <sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 03:02, 19 October 2023 (UTC)


 * I think that specific sport games are just a general category under sports games, which normally do not separate articles for them unless its a case of things like racing game which includes more fantasy-like settings and such. M asem (t) 17:55, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
 * A History of... article has certainly got legs if the sources are available. There's a huge difference between Jon Ritman cutting the noses off the bears from Bear Bovver in order to create footballer sprites for Match Day and players being scanned and motion captured for the latest Fifa (or whatever it's called) - X201 (talk) 18:03, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

Free ebooks from the Golden Joystick Awards
GamesRadar+, the Golden Joystick Awards, and Future Publishing are once again giving away free long-form ebooks for voting in the awards. Here are the direct links to the books: Reminder for 2022: and 2019: Regards, IceWelder  &#91; &#9993; &#93; 20:32, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
 * The Ultimate Guide to Fantasy Gaming (Fourth Edition)
 * 100 Games to Play Before You Die – Retro Gamer Special Edition (Fifth Edition)
 * The Story of Zelda
 * Retro Gamer Presents: The Handheld Gaming Collection (First Edition)
 * Minecraft Secrets & Cheats Volume 3
 * PC Gamer Presents: Ultimate Retro PC Gamer Collection (Second Edition)
 * The History of Videogames (Second Edition)
 * Minecraft Secrets & Cheats Volume 1
 * 100 Games to Play Before You Die – Nintendo Consoles Edition (Fourth Edition)
 * 100 PlayStation Games to Play Before You Die (Third Edition)
 * Golden Joystick Presents... Assassin's Creed – Ultimate Series Guide: 2007 – 2015
 * Golden Joystick Presents... Halo – The Ultimate Guide to the Halo Universe
 * Golden Joystick Presents... A Hideo Koj!ma Book – The Ultimate Guide to Metal Gear Solid

Category inclusion should require an official release?
I noticed that Doom (1993 video game) is in the following categories:


 * Category:Amiga games
 * Category:Amiga 1200 games
 * Category:AmigaOS 4 games

I'm aware that the open source release of Doom enabled unofficial ports that could be played on high-end Amigas with additional expansion hardware, and I can see the logic that goes "if it runs (to any degree) on an Amiga (of any kind), then it's an Amiga game". But I find that logic too reductive, and the resulting categorisation to be misleading. Per WP:NONDEF, I don't think there are any sources that would refer to Doom as an Amiga game. Furthermore, even if you can run a recompiled version of the open source Doom engine code on an Amiga, you still need the proprietary assets from a copy of the game from one of the platforms it was originally released on. Those assets were never released as an Amiga game (regardless that their file format may be platform-agnostic). In my view, recompiling the engine source code and hacking it together with PC game assets is not enough to say that Doom is actually an Amiga game. The article mentions that Doom has been unofficially ported to oscilloscopes. I don't see the Amiga port as altogether different from this.

This categorisation is particularly problematic because the specific issue of the Amiga not having Doom is often cited as a notable factor in its downfall. Here, for example: Can you run Doom on the Amiga? No, not really, and arguably that was one of the causes for the computer’s demise in the mid-90s as it failed to catch up on the FPS craze of the PC world.

Personally, I think these categories should be removed just on the basis of not meeting the WP:NONDEF guideline, but I wonder if there is consensus for going further, to state that any system's games category should only include games that were officially released for that system. Barnards.tar.gz (talk) 12:00, 19 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Unofficial ports should not be considered as part of a game's release in the infobox or in categories. If they have been noted by third-party sources, they can be discussed in the prose of the article but we should not pretend they were given the green light by the developers or publishers. M asem (t) 12:02, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
 * This should be obvious. Unofficial ports don't count for categories. QuicoleJR (talk) 14:37, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
 * It seems to be quite a common issue with FPS games of that era. I am going to remove all such categories. Barnards.tar.gz (talk) 16:01, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I would note that a particularly notable "unofficial" port could work for a category, but that would be highly specific to the circumstances. "We can technically make it run on this" is obviously not appropriate for a category, even if it's mentioned in the prose. We're not adding Doom to category:Smart thermostat games ;p ~ Maplestrip/Mable ( chat ) 07:35, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

Doubts about the Super Smash Bros. Melee article
Hello. I added several citation needed to the Melee page and also reported a doubt about a source in Talk:Super Smash Bros. Melee. These days I will try to improve the page, but it would be great if someone already knows where to find the sources Redjedi23 (talk) 22:46, 19 October 2023 (UTC)


 * @Redjedi23 Try the custom google search at WP:VG/S. -- ferret (talk) 22:58, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
 * @Redjedi23 Just a note but the first 3 that are marked as citation needed are covered by the preceding references  Cr im so nF ox  talk 08:30, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you, I moved the references. Redjedi23 (talk) 09:43, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I also report that in Super Smash Bros. Brawl, another FA, there isn't any references in the "Playable character" section. Redjedi23 (talk) 15:32, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Hey, its good you're here and asking questions, but if you keep asking the same sort of questions/doubts, you'll probably keep getting the same suggestions. There's three main ways of handling things.
 * If you think the information should be retained, find a source and add it to the article.
 * If you think the information should be retained, but can't find a source, add a "citation needed tag" for now.
 * If you can't find a source, and/or you don't think its valid info, remove it. People generally won't fault you for this unless people feel you're not trying hard enough to find sourcing for valid information.
 * You're free to keep asking here, I just don't want you to be bogged down by waiting for responses. Sergecross73   msg me  17:31, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the advice! Redjedi23 (talk) 19:39, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Hello, I added some references in the articles and removed statement where no reliable source could be find. Redjedi23 (talk) 10:19, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
 * The Giant Bomb source you used is unreliable because it links to their wiki that anyone can edit. We can't source to user-generated content. TarkusAB talk / contrib 16:33, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Oh ok, I will try to find other references Redjedi23 (talk) 17:18, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
 * @Redjedi23, for video game source hunting, these two links will be very helpful:
 * WP:VG/S: an article of video game resource classification; what ones are reliable, what isn't, etc.
 * WP:VG/SE: A custom search engine that only shows these reliable sources
 * Panini! • 🥪 17:24, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
 * After hours of game source hunting, I just found a spanish source about the scrapped characters (Pichu, Roy, Mewtwo, and Young Link): https://uvejuegos.com/analisis/Super-Smash-Bros-Brawl/Aqui-combatimos-todos/3964/15407/7
 * Unfortunately, I don't know if it is a reliable source but I don't think so since it was used very few times in es.wiki Redjedi23 (talk) 11:15, 22 October 2023 (UTC)