Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Video games/Archive WikiProject Massively multiplayer online games/Archive 2

RuneScape
Hi everyone!

For those of you who don't know, a couple weeks ago I proposed WikiProject RuneScape for deletion as this project covers the six articles under their scope. It lost unfortunately and the project stayed.

I suppose some form of specific collaboration on the RuneScape is necessary and thus I proposed that we move it to WikiProject Massively multiplayer online games/RuneScape Task Force. I knew that it would probably be a very, very controversial move and thus I proposed it for moving. If anyone would like to support it becoming a task force click here and exercise your voting rights! Nobody has voted against me yet... I guess everyone's still on holiday; but you can never be too careful.

Thanks and have a Happy New Year! Greeves 16:48, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Hi everyone, and happy holidays! I took a look at the Runescape Wikiproject and they obviously have much more momentum there than we have here.  It would be nice to get a stronger set of deliverables happening here and then make the case that their project could be subordinate to this one. --DeweyQ 17:15, 31 December 2006 (UTC)


 * On the other hand, having the RS project as a task force would bring more momentum to this project as they would be part of our project, not just our daughter project. Greeves 18:50, 3 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks to all who took a part in the decision for WikiProject RuneScape! We had a successful move! To all former WikiProject RuneScape members, welcome to your new home! Greeves 22:55, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

GuildCafe
If anyone can help me improve GuildCafe so that it will survive AfD that woult be awesome. I'm not exactly sure what I can do to improve it at the moment. It seems notable enough to me. I particularly need better sources since that's what the AfD is complaining most about. Cheers, JACO  PLANE  &bull; 2007-01-4 07:15

Accursed Lands a MMOG?
So someone added Accursed Lands (AL) to this WikiProject. I'm not sure it really falls under the scope. I guess it depends on how you define "MMOG". In terms of strict numbers, AL isn't really a MMOG (average number online is between 20 and 30). The servers could handle a lot more, but to quote the wikipedia page on MMOGs:

Popular MMOGs might have thousands of players online at any given time, usually on a company owned server. Non-MMOGs, such as Battlefield 1942 or Half-Life usually have less than 50 players online (per server) and are usually played on private servers.

Using these guidelines, I would term AL as a non-MMOG (since it uses only one central server and only hosts, as I said before, between 20 and 30 people at a time).

Let me know if there's some other justification for terming AL as a MMOG (I'll watch this talk page for a while), otherwise, I will take the tag off the page in a few days.

DuncmanG 15:44, 7 January 2007 (UTC)


 * IMO, one needs to play the game or at least have more information than the article provides us to classify it properly... I'm afraid that I have never played the game. :-( However, I find it hard to believe that the game can be a MUD and an MMORPG at the same time. The game appears to be text-based (as opposed to graphical) and I do not believe that a text-based game can be an MMO. If anyone knows anything about the game, we need your input! TIA Greeves 02:52, 10 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I do actually play the game, and it is text-based with some ASCII "graphics". I'm not opposed to text-based games being MMOGs, but I don't think AL falls into the category anyway. I will be removing the tag, please feel free to contact me if you disagree. DuncmanG 20:09, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Sidebar, Logo, and MORE!
I have done some fairly large upgrades and I have a few questions.

For the sidebar, I pretty much copied WikiProject CVG's one and I do not know how I can really make it better. If someone could fix it up or give me tips on how I could, I would be grateful.

For the logo, if you have not been following the conversation here, we now have a logo. For the main project page, I am wondering how we can get the logo almost front and center alongside the scope, goals, etc. I have looked at Wikiproject Mortal Kombat's main page and they have positioned their logo well. When I place the logo,it never ends up like anything remotely as good as their's. Would someone please be able to place in an appropriate spot on the main project page?

Another thing that I created was the Outreach Department. This is for stretching what we do out to the Wikipedian community as a whole. I got the idea from WikiProject Military history here. Pretty much what I'm hoping to do is get a newsletter started (that can be posted on the WikiProject newsletter page and on interested members' talk pages) and I created a welcome to the project template. I have two questions here: 1. What else can we do in the Outreach Department? 2. On the welcome template here, it does not provide an automatic link to its parent sub-page. Is it because I created the template at that location before I managed to create the main Outreach Department page?

By the way, I might hold off on changing the MMOGCM for February as we have not fully set up the MMOGCM system yet. I am basing it on WikiProject CVG's system somewhat. Again, any help would be appreciated.

TIA for everyone's help and for reading all of this! Greeves (talk • contribs) 04:32, 12 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Ok, I added the logo exactly how they have theirs, however, our intro is bigger than the picture so that's not why it's like theirs. I'll try and look over the other stuff you did too. However, I am also working with other WikiProjects at the moment helping some articles become Good Articles, so that is where most of my WikiTime has been being used. So, I'm sorry for my absense in this project however I am trying to meet some other goals and will try to help as much as I can.    Orfen     User Talk |  Contribs 05:50, 12 January 2007 (UTC)


 * For me the Outreach Department link (and template) works back to the main page, you mean the thing in the top left? That works for me.    Orfen     User Talk |  Contribs 05:56, 12 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Yeah, the logo is currently covering some of the text. For the OR Department however, I'm referring to the Welcome template here. It should have a link back to both the main page and the Outreach Department page (like all sub-pages have). Greeves (talk • contribs) 15:35, 12 January 2007 (UTC)


 * My OR Department question has been resolved, it now has both links... maybe Wikipedia needed some time just to fix itself. :-) Greeves (talk • contribs) 15:38, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Ragnarok Online jobs
The AFD is being reviewed due to its bad faith implications on the part of the nom. Commentary of the members of this WikiProject is requested. Kari Hazzard ( T  |  C ) 14:33, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

MMORPG for AID
I have recently nominated MMORPG for the Article Creation and Improvement Drive. I feel that it is an important article which is unreferenced and not GA yet. If you agree, click here and sign to support it so that maybe we can have some broad input from the entire Wikipedian community! Greeves (talk • contribs) 21:19, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Ragnarok Online Peer Review
Anyone want to comment on the newly-rewritten and less crufty version of the article? I need ideas on ways to improve it. Kari Hazzard ( T  |  C ) 16:54, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Please see WP:MMO/PR, our peer review page. On that page we take peer reviews from other sources (being WP:CVG/PR and WP:PR). I will help out by submitting it to WP:CVG/PR. Greeves (talk • contribs • reviews) 17:45, 6 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I have now submitted it and you can see what people have to say here. Whatever is suggested there will automatically be posted on both our peer review page and WP:CVG's one. Greeves (talk • contribs • reviews) 17:55, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

MMOGCM
I have finally gotten the MMOGCM collaboration system up and running. I have left the collaboration at World of Warcraft for this month until the 24th. That is when the decision is made for March's collaboration. By the way, I feel that MMORPG needs some help so I nominated it for March. Greeves (talk • contribs • reviews) 00:06, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Fair use template
Back in December I proposed a merger for three fair use templates, Template:Game-cover, Template:Boardgamecover, and Template:RPG-artwork. I made an effort to publicise the merge on the villiage pump and various places that deal with fair use templates. After a lot of support on tfd and a lack of opposition elsewhere I attempted the merge on January 15. Post-merge I've had two objections, one of which said that I "should have brought up the merge with the various projects that manage those covers" (which I thought I was doing when I informed WikiProject Fair use). The merge has been reverted by the person who said I should have brought up the merge in more places. So here we go... IF ANYONE FROM THIS PROJECT CARES ABOUT THIS MERGE PLEASE VISIT Template_talk:Game-cover AND JOIN IN DISCUSSION THERE. ~  ONUnicorn (Talk problem solving 20:46, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Classes in World of Warcraft article under fire
Someone put a remove "game guide" templet on the Classes in World of Warcraft article. Wonder how long before she try to delete it. Seano1 20:42, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Our Discussion Pages
I have recently created a sidebar to put on our project's talk pages (not article talk pages) for navigation. I have also been redirecting ones that I did not put on there to their parent page's talk page (with the exception of individual newsletter issues). I hope that this is not a problem. Greeves (talk • contribs • reviews) 18:55, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Instructions for joining
I've been contacted by Thewcnoob (talk • contribs), who has been having trouble with the instructions on WikiProject Massively multiplayer online games/Members for joining the Wikiproject. I've had a go at simplifying them to avoid biting new users, since they were quite complicated. Further improvement may be neccessary though. CaptainVindaloo t c e 18:30, 8 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I take fault here... I guess the instructions were not very clear. Thanks for clearing them up! They look great! Greeves (talk • contribs • reviews) 23:38, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Requested Move for MMORPG
In case anyone is interested, I requested that the article MMORPG be moved to Massively multiplayer online role-playing game. The details as to why and to voice your opinion is at Talk:MMORPG. Greeves (talk • contribs) 19:58, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Supreme Destiny
Ugh, just ran into this one from the RC patrol. Supreme Destiny is apparantly a large and popular MMORPG, though I hadn't heard of it before now. However, the current article on it is terribly written and needs a total rewrite, as I've tagged it for. Since I know nothing about the game, I can't do this myself, but hopefully someone in this WikiProject can. Thanks, Pyrospirit  Flames  Fire 01:17, 19 March 2007 (UTC)


 * OMG! Should that maybe be tagged for deletion? Or maybe keep it as an example on a page called Guide to writing crufty articles. LOL! But nonetheless, something needs to be done with it. Greeves (talk • contribs) 22:01, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia 1.0
I have added our project to the WP:WVWP list and have added three articles so far:
 * MMORPG Massively multiplayer online role-playing game ( B-class A-class)
 * World of Warcraft ( GA-class)
 * RuneScape ( GA-class)

Does everyone agree with the choices so far? Any other ideas? By the way, MMORPG is on the brink of GA, any help there would be great! Thanks! Greeves (talk • contribs) 01:10, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

AFD notice for Servers of City of Heroes and City of Villains
Since the page is labelled as part of your project, I just wanted to give a heads up that Articles for deletion/Servers of City of Heroes and City of Villains is nominated for deletion as an article unlikely to ever receive sufficient reliable published sources (it is entirely based on forum posts and Wikis, neither of which are reliable per WP:ATT). Please feel free to direct feedback and questions to that page (not here). Dugwiki 22:52, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the heads-up! Greeves (talk • contribs) 00:39, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

morpgchart.com
That site hasn't been updated in 10 months, almost a year. May I suggest using:

http://www.free-games.com.au/Free_Online_Multiplayer_Games/index.html

As an independent source? Although they allow paid advertisers to go to the top of their lists, everything below that is pretty extensive and inclusive. They also rate the paid adverts as well, so even those are ranked in a fashion. If anyone knows of other independent ranking sites (preferably one that doesn't take money) please let us all know. Matt Brennen 19:19, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

MMORPG Articles deleted
There has been a trend lately to delete MMORPG articles. I strongly suggest that everyone keep an eye on this. I've seen long established articles come up for speedy deletion. We have already lost dozens of articles this way, some of them very good. A common complaint is a lack of citations or sourcing. While this is understandable on the surface, often these nominations for deletion do not take into account real notability, rigidly sticking to guidelines as if they are set in stone. This is doubly sad because I feel we have already lost some good articles simply because editors were lazy about documenting sources. So double check your articles, source them and cite them. Matt Brennen 01:05, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Will do! Even though I did put a MMORPG article up for deletion myself recently as 9 Dragons MMORPG was the same as 9Dragons; it got redirected. Recently I learned how important citing your sources is during the FA push for MMORPG (any help with referencing there would be great!). Greeves (talk • contribs • reviews) 15:20, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Aces High (computer game)
There seems to be a content dispute with this article. Is there an editor here who could help restore NPOV and references? Video games aren't my area of expertise. Jehochman (talk/contrib) 06:34, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Task Force Neopets?
Unfortunately, I joined this WikiProject under the pretense that Neopets was a former WikiProject that I just couldn't find. WikiProject Massively multiplayer online games/Neopets hasn't been touched since creation, and barely anyone edits the Neopets articles in general.

I'll stick around and see what I can do around here and what can be done about TFNeo if it's left to stick.

A question that's been bugging me: How do you find reliable third-party internet sources when all that comes up are fansites?  Squids ' and ' Chips  00:07, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

You REALLY have to look hard. The sources are usually there somewhere. For Starships!, I've been looking through HUNDREDS of sites for good references, and still get complaints that the references aren't good enough. Don't stop at google either, hand surf the net for sources. Go to a bookstore. There are a couple of books that have listed practically every game out there, if yours is in it, add the book to a bibliography. Matt Brennen 21:50, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

A or B class
How do you get an article upgraded? I'm referring to Starships!, which is well past start-class. I've been working hard on it,(and defending it from hungry exclusionists), and I think it's ready for a review. Even if not, I'd appreciate any comments posted on it's talk page. Matt Brennen 21:53, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
 * There is no procedure to get it upgraded to B class though to get it to A class it would have needed to be a GA already (to get to GA you have to pass the article through WP:GAC). Personally, I believe that the article is still start-class quality though. Would anyone agree that the article is still Start class? If you are really unsure about upgrading it, see the assessment request department of WikiProject Video games. Greeves (talk • contribs • reviews) 22:27, 29 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I would have to agree, I would say it is a start-class article. Lack of citations, also I feel: "Substantial/major editing is needed, most material for a complete article needs to be added. This article still needs to be completed, so an article cleanup tag is inappropriate at this stage." Especially with the notability tag added. Please see Template:Grading scheme.   Or f e n     User Talk |  Contribs 22:34, 29 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks guys, I've spent the last three days finding notability citations for the article. Aside from notables in two books, I've found six pretty good reviews from good sources. I think it's notability will stand at this point. If not, it's in trouble. (as would be 90% of the MMORPG articles). In my research, I've looked at every MMORPG on wiki, and a lot of them are in dangerous shape. I will be going to work researching notability on some of the flimsier ones, I hope a lot of people help out. We should have a notability task force or something, because a lot of administrators appear to be wanting to delete these games. Matt Brennen 17:58, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

New article suggestion (Dreamlords)
Hello. An article for Dreamlords (an MMORTS) was created in February, and it needs a lot of work (it's also a tricky article to write because the game is so unique). I suggest this article be placed under the scope of this project; this is the best place I found to mention it. —Nightspark 03:58, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Hi! To add it to the scope, just add  to it's talk page. Greeves (talk • contribs • reviews) 23:02, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

FA attempt for RuneScape
Over at, we're preparing to nominate the article for Featured Status. We need third party editors, especially experienced copyeditors, to help make sure it complies with all the criteria, especially 1a: "well written", the trickiest of the lot. Help is very much appreciated. The relevent talk thread is at Talk:RuneScape. Of interest is Tony1 and Yannismarou's guides to Featured status. Thanks, CaptainVindaloo t c e 23:21, 30 April 2007 (UTC)