Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Video games/Dragon Quest

Old discussions
FYI- Here are some old discussions from when DQ was its own WikiProject: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Square Enix/Dragon Quest archive and a redirect. (Guyinblack25 talk 14:54, 10 September 2009 (UTC))
 * I already have it listed in the archive (see right) 陣 内 Jinnai 18:02, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Ideas?
Is there anything in particular anyone wants to work on? I remember I got the series article, III, and VI up to good (2 out of 3's not bad xD ), but I didn't know where to go from there (make them FAs maybe? ) What do you think?  EVAUNIT-  666 23:38, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
 * You worked on III and VI? That's a little awkward for me since I delisted 3 and planning on reviewing 4. But I'll let you know when I do 4. GamerPro64 (talk) 00:22, 11 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I was thinking maybe getting the series article to FA or try to get more of the main series game articles up to GA, but I'd need some help : ]  EVAUNIT-  666 01:33, 11 September 2009 (UTC)
 * We should bring up the other articles first. I suggest we work on the main series first, in order of their number to get to at least B-class, if not higher. 陣 内 Jinnai 23:09, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Dragon Quest VI: Realms of Reverie's GAR
As the title says, I made a GAR for the article. Here's the link. GamerPro64 (talk) 22:54, 11 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Update:Besides some cite problems, I kept its GA status. Congrats to those who helped improved it. GamerPro64 (talk) 20:47, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

scope
Should developers like Level-5 and their notable staff be under our scope? 陣 内 Jinnai 23:10, 11 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't think so just because there's enough to do already and they're not completely DQ, but it's your call.  EVAUNIT-  666 19:43, 14 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Right now they aren't. Just SE, Enix and the 3 main staff members. If Sugiyama is replaced, which is expected, the new staff person could very likely be added. 陣 内 Jinnai 16:29, 15 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Not to get off track, but Sugiyama's expected to leave? T_T  EVAUNIT-  666 20:21, 15 September 2009 (UTC)
 * DQ9 was suppose to be the last game he's working on. He did that one only because Horii asked him to from what I heard. I mean he is close to 80 now, ~20 years older than Toiryama or Horii. 陣 内 Jinnai 21:21, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Projects?
So DQ 6 is okay now...? Is there a certain game anyone wants to work on right now?  EVAUNIT-  666 16:29, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Get DW3 back up to GA? or get Dragon Quest up to FA? Do we have a List of Dragon Quest video games or List of Dragon Quest media? If not we could create one and try to get that to FL. Another thing I've had on my personal back burner is an article on the Dragon Quest theme song as it has some notable milestones. 陣 内 Jinnai 17:36, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I remember always wanting to do a media list because of all the CDs and manga, so we could do that. Based on the theme song idea, we could at least do an article about the music. I'd love to learn more about the operas in Japan, but I dunno how much we could find out about that. I've never actually had an FA before, so I'm not really sure how to improve the main article, but I'll take a look at 3.  EVAUNIT-  666 20:14, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Quick question: I remember something about the articles can only have 5 images. Does the three-in-one image count on the DQ III count as three separate images? EVAUNIT-  666 20:17, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
 * 5 fair-use images. I'm asking about getting some Wikipe-tan images of her as a fighter/hero, cleric, mage/wizard and thief/bandit. Those we could use to show basic classes if done on say DQ page in addition to the 5. And 3-in-1 images still count as 3. This is why for character list pages images with multiple characters are prefered. 陣 内 Jinnai 21:47, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Does anything else stand out to you as being terrible in the DQ 3 article?  EVAUNIT-  666 21:52, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
 * removed the 2 unnecessary sections (development is essentially production and with only 1 paragraph NA reception need not be treated as a separate section, just a separate paragraph. However there are still some issues.
 * Track list should use . The class section needs some citations as well. The number of screenshots needs to be reduced. I think I have an idea which ones. 陣 内 Jinnai 00:28, 24 September 2009 (UTC)
 * On the image numbers 5 is not an absolute number, although it is a very strong high-end number. There are exceptions, but each additional image increases the chance of a particular image being challenged. I have removed 2 of them. 陣 内 Jinnai 00:35, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Classes
In particular, I want to address DW 3. Everything in the article seems okay, but the large classes section should be dealt with. My idea, after looking at various Final Fantasy articles, was to condense the class section in this article to a paragraph or two and then move the info to a Dragon Quest Classes article. Ideas?  EVAUNIT-  666 16:46, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
 * That's good. Most of the basic ones could be linked to various RPG classes they represent as well as talking about advanced class routes briefly. 陣 内 Jinnai 20:51, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
 * The tracklist should be something like those in Shin Megami Tensei: Persona 3 or List of Popotan soundtracks. They should also have the original Japanese at a minimum and pref a translation. 陣 内 Jinnai 04:48, 26 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I started this based off the Final Fantasy one. Right now, I just dumped everything from the two articles, but I'll fix it up eventually. I think III's pretty much done.  EVAUNIT-  666  00:33, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

Dragon Quest
What does Dragon Quest article need before it could be put up as an FAC still? 陣 内 Jinnai 22:46, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
 * In the "Main Series" section, it should be like Final Fantasy. GamerPro64 (talk) 23:42, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Done that. I know the section needs references, but anything beyond that? 陣 内 Jinnai 20:46, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
 * YOu know, we could put this article through a Peer Review. GamerPro64 (talk) 20:52, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Alright, after the PR, i noticed some problems with the current article. A lot of statements are unsourced. I've been trying to correct them, but could use some help. Furthermore, there was no real consensus what to do with the table for spinoff games. Most series don't have that number of spinoff titles and fewer still are FAs. 陣 内 Jinnai 20:40, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Do you think it'll pass with the table there?? EVAUNIT 神の人間の殺害者 15:34, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Why not? It doesn't seem that big of a problem. GamerPro64 (talk) 22:39, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Then I guess just leave it in. ? EVAUNIT 神の人間の殺害者 04:04, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
 * We could ask VG group at large or just wait until it goes for a FAC and see what they say. 陣 内 Jinnai 05:34, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Attention everyone, attention everyone. Dragon Quest is up for FAC. GamerPro64 (talk) 20:47, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Once my School Rumble FAC is completed, do you want to try for another FAC round with the images removed since we have gameplay article? 陣 内 Jinnai 00:38, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah but one of the links has recently died and I suck and finding the archives. GamerPro64 (talk) 01:38, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Fixed. 陣 内 Jinnai 04:16, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

Anime/manga articles
Beyond the partially translated anime, should we merge the other anime/manga articles with their respective game? Most of it fails WP:NOTPLOT. 陣 内 Jinnai 20:46, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Merge.  EVAUNIT-  666 23:42, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

Dragon Quest VIII
I've worked on the article a bit and I think it'll be my next GA after III's passed, but I was wondering if you had any suggestions for it.  EVAUNIT-  666 21:30, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Impressive work. My only concern is that you should remov that box in the "Reception" section for {VG Reviews}. GamerPro64 (talk) 21:35, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Remove the 1 paragraph subsections and try to find the Japanese names for the CD tracks.
 * Please use webcite to archive anything from 1up.com as those sites aren't stored in archive.org due to having a generic anti-crawler bot and some articles have been removed (has caused problems for Chrono Break. I wish archive.org would get their act together and make it so that older sites can still be accessed as it causes real problems. I may have to buy one of the sites because of those damn bots because of their stupid rules trying to buy it before they reaquire it (fortunately it's on a date easy to remember for me, my sister's birthday).
 * Need to note which shonen jump magazine and what version of shonen jump so i can correct the link . 陣 内 Jinnai 20:02, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Dragon Warrior
There are 2 outstanding issues for the article before it can be brought up as a GAN. 1> There is still an or i put and the soundtrack section needs expanding or combining with another section. 陣 内 Jinnai 23:50, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Where's the OR? I wanna take a crack at it. GamerPro64 (talk) 23:56, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
 * That the script in the DW1&2 is closer to the Japanese than the NES ver. 陣 内 Jinnai 01:11, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

Screenshot
Can we get a screenshot of the menu system in DQ8/9? Or do you think File:Dragon quest viii battle.jpg might be better? The one screenshot there doesn't adequately sum up the newer games and if we remove the album image i thin we'll have too few images for an article about a franchise of this size and importance. 陣 内 Jinnai 23:00, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Wow does that picture look unnessessary. I think we should go with the menu system one. I hope provide it, but I don't have a PS2. Sorry. :( GamerPro64 (talk) 23:07, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
 * About the other pic, see the PR.
 * Also, I do have a PS2, but don't know how to take screenshots. 陣 内 Jinnai 23:38, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Did you try Google Images? GamerPro64 (talk) 23:47, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Keys
I recently added information about the history of the key system in the series, which was reverted as alleged original research. Could someone with access to the manuals, old gaming magazines or the games themselves provide some citations? The manuals or item posters should be adequate to back up the statements I added to the Dragon Warrior and Dragon Warrior II articles, however my reverted edit to the Dragon Warrior III article contains both statements which can be backed up by the manual, and statements which would need further citations (specifically, the statement that Dragon Quest III / Dragon Warrior III's key and locked door system became the standard system for the series, which could be easily verified with access to the manuals, but may count as original research). -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 06:30, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
 * It's basically WP:OR because your comparing and contrasting in all of those. If you say, FE, in Dragon Warrior "The game has locked doors which are opened by consumable keys" then that is fine, as long as you cite the video game or the manual (just copy/past a ref name code since its already used as a source in DW. Saying its the first or "unlike future games" is where it runs into problems because the article is about the game itself and would have to cite a third-party source saying that. This can be someplace like IGN, a strategy guide or it could be Horii himself (unless the manual clearly states it is the first DQ game to do this); however the game can never be cited for this. The games themselves cannot be used here. For the article Dragon Quest this is a bit unclear since your talking about the franchise, but then again it may also be considered irrelevant information for the main article since many items were broadened over time in DQ, FE, type of slimes or that items could be used in battle, etc. 陣  内 Jinnai 02:12, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I suspect that if I just cited the game without a quotation, the additions would get reverted again, which is why I requested assistance from editors with access to appropriate sources. I currently only have access to sources for Dragon Quest VIII. -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 07:52, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

Dragon Quest Retsuden: Roto no Monshō afd
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Dragon Quest Retsuden: Roto no Monshō - i'm nominating this for deletion per earlier discussions. The relevant info has already been copied to DW1 and DW3. If you'd like to comment, feel free to join the discussion. 陣 内 Jinnai 23:12, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

Dragon Warrior
Is undergoing its GAN assessment. If anyone can specifically address the Nintendo Power issue it would be appreciated. 陣 内 Jinnai 07:07, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
 * So now that this is a GA and I am waiting on seeing how i can get a screenshot for the main article, any ideas for another candidate? 陣 内 Jinnai 22:02, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

List of Dragon Quest media & other lists.
If someone can start this article I can help flesh it out. This will likely end of being a list page with links to List of Dragon Quest video games, List of Dragon Quest anime and manga so that both can be covered appropriately. Possibly List of Dragon Quest video games (main series) (or something like that) and List of Dragon Quest video games (spinoff titles) since 2 of the spinoff titles have become well known (Dragon Quest Monsters & moreso Mystery Dungeon).

If we do this we can also remove the table from Dragon Quest which may have issues when bringing the article to FAC. 陣 内 Jinnai 01:38, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I started a basic media list article. ? EVAUNIT 神の人間の殺害者 17:44, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Now that the list is made, can anyone make a picture of the games and some manga books or something like that? GamerPro64 (talk) 13:55, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I have a lot of the games. Do you mean I should take a picture of them together and upload it? ? EVAUNIT 神の人間の殺害者 17:25, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Not sure that would pass WP:FAIR USE. Check first. In the mean time put the DQ logo for certain. Maybe see what they did with Lolicon because they have an image of a row of books there. 陣 内 Jinnai 19:18, 12 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Finished the main series games. Check it over as the notes might be better incorperated in the prose, at least some of them.

Gameplay of Dragon Quest
Should I do it? ...I'll probably do it eventually anyway, but I was looking for any input : ] ? EVAUNIT 神になった人間 20:58, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
 * You talking about an article or redoing the section on Dragon Quest? 陣 内 Jinnai 21:38, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I meant making a new article, like Gameplay of Final Fantasy.  ? EVAUNIT 神になった人間 23:12, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
 * In my opinion, I'm split in two. One side says that it should be made and we could collaborate it into a Good article. But my other side says we may not get enough references to make it notable. GamerPro64 (talk) 23:24, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
 * After reading through like every DQ review on the internet for references, I've realized that what critics mostly talk about is how the gameplay is always the same, slightly different, etc, so I know at least a reception section could get done (does such an article even have a reception article? ). Explanations on the actual game mechanics probably wouldn't be too hard to find, either, as most would probably come from the critics (so it'll be another article with the names Kurt Kalata and Jeremy Parish all over it). I think it'd be pretty simple, unless you see holes in my logic :]  ? EVAUNIT 神になった人間 23:32, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Work on this in your userspace. When you have enough you think it could easily survive an AfD, move it over. 陣 内 Jinnai 01:05, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I started this User:Evaunit666/Gameplay of Dragon Quest. ? EVAUNIT 神になった人間 13:42, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I moved it to Gameplay of Dragon Quest. What do you think?   ? EVAUNIT 神になった人間 14:07, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Looks good enough as a start article. There are of course some improvements that need to be done. 陣 内 Jinnai 23:01, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Issues?
I was wondering if anyone would take a quick look at the gameplay article and tell me about any glaring problems you see. I'm still building it up, but what should I focus on right now? Congrats on the series article, by the way : ]  ? EVAUNIT 神になった人間 20:17, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
 * We really do need a menu system screenshot from DQ8 North America. For the main article that's not nessasary, but for an article on gameplay this is needed. There was also commentary on that so it should pass fairuse issues. I'd say that should be a high priority.
 * Another thing would be a legacy section talking about how the gameplay elements have been mirrored by most RPGs.
 * On that note, we should probably talk a bit about how the original pieces got pulled together for Dragon Quest, ie a "creation and concept section". 陣 内 Jinnai 17:38, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok, I'll work on that. Just to make sure, do you mean a battle menu screenshot or like the menu you pull up when you're using an item? And for a Dragon Warrior's creation section, I know there's already a lot of information about that on the series article. Is that what you mean?  ? EVAUNIT 神になった人間 13:10, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
 * For DQ8/9 I mean the menu you pull up when you want to access items/equip on the field map. I really think the North American/European version of DQ8 menu should be used instead of DQ9. For DW, yes, but it should pertain to how it affected the gameplay specifically. 陣 内 Jinnai 05:13, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

DQ6
We had an ip edit that claiming the overseas translations were cancelled, but pointed to an invalid source. I wanted to know if anyone could verify whether that's true or not (it would suprise me if it was). 陣 内 Jinnai 22:51, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
 * With a quick Google search, I found no sources saying its cancelled. However, (conspiracy theory) the ip could be a member of Square Enix and is leaking that the game is cancelled! Or... maybe not. :D GamerPro64 (talk) 23:05, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I seriously doubt it considering their goal is to make DQ a worldwide brand. It would harm that image if they didn't release it. Considering sales for DQ4 were decent in the US considering it was a remake, it would really surprise me. I know it was pushed back for DQ9 because they really wanted that NA July 11 release date which tells you how important they consider the DQ main series titles. Europe...well sales there haven't been as great. 陣 内 Jinnai 18:27, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
 * IP check - I doubt it is someone connected with SE. It looks to be a cable company Optimum Online in Westport, Connecitcut. SE is located in the US at El Segundo, California. 陣 内 Jinnai 18:39, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

Push for GA
Looking through the articles, I think we could push a lot of them for GA status. Maybe have a PR before each. Anything before 9 should be possible as they are already decently verified, with good reception and background info. A few like DQ5 need some cleanup with their plot (specifically characters), but I don't think its a major hurdle. Since DQ article is awaiting A-class this could be a way of pushing recognition of the series up. 陣 内 Jinnai 18:23, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Suggestion. We should work on Dragon Quest IV: Chapters of the Chosen first. What it looks like now is not bad. GamerPro64 (talk) 19:12, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Finding sources for Dragon Warrior II might be sort of hard, though. But yeah, I think most of the articles are already almost there : ]   ? EVAUNIT 神になった人間 02:28, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Also, I thought about this a long time ago: what about merging Dragon Warrior I & II into the two main series game articles? No matter how much we stretch it, that article probably won't get much bigger. ? EVAUNIT 神になった人間 02:35, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Well my stance has always been very conservative about spinout articles for multi-title remakes/rereleases (was how we got to the current wording for remake spinout articles) as i see them as diluting quality content while adding little beyound reception scores in most cases. I don't see DQ I + II as particularly notable in that regard. If any title in the DQ lineup would be such (and easy to find sources) it would be DQ4 given it had 2 US releases that were substantially different. 陣 内 Jinnai 02:48, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

Music of Dragon Quest
Ladies and gentlemen. It occurred to me that no one has made Music of the Dragon Quest series yet, as well as any other article relating to it, like in Music of Final Fantasy. Would anyone like to make those articles? GamerPro64 (talk) 14:04, 1 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I think concentrating on the Dragon Quest theme song would likely be a better article as that one has some historic milestones. 陣 内 Jinnai 14:58, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

Merging some anime/manga articles
Outside of the one partial release in the US I'm not sure any of them can pass WP:N. I also don't see how having a seperate article enhances things either. Before I go on a merging spree, I'd like some input. 陣 内 Jinnai 20:27, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

DQ Media
I think we might want to have a PR on the page. I think its close to FLC criteria. The biggest issue I could see might be adding sources to many of those release dates and statements and maybe expanding the lead. 陣 内 Jinnai 19:42, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree. It should be on Peer Review first in case we don't and it immediately fails. GamerPro64 (talk) 19:55, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

Dragon Quest compliation re-releases
Someone want to gut these articles and merge relevant info to each? Seems like a lot of these remakes are being merged into the main releases for similar reasons. While they pass the GNG, they regurgiatate a lot of plot info and reception and development info can be merged into the main articles without compromising anything. 陣 内 Jinnai 04:51, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Dragon Warrior I & II
 * Dragon Quest Monsters 1+2

Dragon Warrior vs. Dragon Quest
While editing Dragon Quest, I've run into the issue of whether to use Dragon Quest or Dragon Warrior for talking about the first three games. A lot of the sources use the former, especially sources since SE obtained the rights to the name. However, a lot of older sources also use the older Dragon Warrior names. 陣 内 Jinnai 16:28, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Weekly Shounen Jump Vol 45 1989
This is partly a reply to the conversation at The magazine contains a section written by Horii, with the following passage about the addition of Mini Medals into Dragon Quest IV:

ドラクエⅣの世界では、いろんな所に「小さなメダル」が落ちているのでした. しかし、ゲームクリアとは、まったく関係ありません. ではなぜ、こんな物をいれたかというと、Ⅱで、紋章を集め、Ⅲでは６つのオーブをさがしましたが、こういった物を集める楽しみも残しておきたかったからです. かといいて　”Ⅳは宝石を集めなければゲームをクリアできない”ではあまりにワンパターンなので、思いきってゲームクリアとは関係なくしてしまい、見つけた人には、その見つけた数によって、お得なアイテムを上げる！というようにしたのでした.

Translation: In the world of Draque IV there are "Mini Medals" lying around in various places in the world. But, that has nothing to do with clearing the game. Then, the reason that I put such a thing in the game is that in II you collected crests, and III you looked for six orbs, and I wanted the fun of collecting these things in the game. Saying that though, if it were the case that "You can't clear IV without gathering gem stones" it would be just following the same old pattern, so I went and made it something that has nothing to do with clearing the game. The people who find them, depending on how many they find, are given useful items! That's the way I made it.

It might also be of note that he also references the game being scheduled to come out sometime in January, and that the game was completed in July.

On Dai, the outside of the chapter referencing characters that appeared in the "one-shots" there is no editorial comments concerning the story continuing from the one-shots. Though for that, the Dai no Daibouken Perfect Book (pg 72) states that the second set of "one-shots" was written to lay down elements for the story for use in the planned serialization.

The DQ Anime poster only has summaries about the story and characters, with no comment on the similarity between them and DQ III. It does mention the start time and air date of the anime, if an RS is needed for that. SMimas (talk) 15:0002, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Can you give me page numbers for the other items? Thanks for the info. 陣 内 Jinnai 16:43, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Ah, sorry, Pg. 8 under the column "Horii Yuuji no Ge-mu Daisuki!!" I wasn't sure how to list the page at first since the section is in a little insert at the front, but luckily the table of contents indicated that the insert still counted as magazine pages.SMimas (talk) 05:20, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
 * What is the original Japanese for that section, "Horii Yuuji no Ge-mu Daisuki!!"? 陣 内 Jinnai 15:07, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

Dragon Warrior
Dragon Warrior is up for peer review. 陣 内 Jinnai 21:38, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

Dragon Quest VIII Peer Review
Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of the Cursed King has been listed for peer review here. Darth Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 03:40, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

WP:Square Enix and Dragon Quest
Please see Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Video games. ▫  Johnny Mr Nin ja  10:07, 3 February 2011 (UTC)