Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Vietnam/Archive 1

Suggestion
Maybe we could make the infobox a template, like Template:Infobox Poland? It's a lot easier to work with, and I think there is a Wiki Policy that says use Wiki markup wherever possible instead of HTML.

Also, it might be nice to have a navigational template at the bottom of the page, like Template:Peripheries of Greece. I would suggest having one for each of the regions since there are so many provinces. So we would have a "Provinces of the Highlands Region of Vietnam" template, and so on. Then on the actual region page we would have a "Regions of Vietnam" for ease of navigation between the articles. --Jpbrenna 20:42, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team cooperation
Hello. I'm a member of the Version 1.0 Editorial Team, which is looking to identify quality articles in Wikipedia for future publication on CD or paper. We recently began assessing articles using these criteria, and we are are asking for your help. As you are most aware of the issues surrounding your focus area, we are wondering if you could provide us with a list of the articles that fall within the scope of your WikiProject, and that are either featured, A-class, B-class, or Good articles, with no POV or copyright problems. Do you have any recommendations? If you do, please post your suggestions at the listing of all active Places WikiProjects, and if you have any questions, ask me in the Work Via WikiProjects talk page or directly in my talk page. Thanks a lot! Tito xd (?!? - help us) 18:51, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Project directory
Hello. The WikiProject Council has recently updated the WikiProject Council/Directory. This new directory includes a variety of categories and subcategories which will, with luck, potentially draw new members to the projects who are interested in those specific subjects. Please review the directory and make any changes to the entries for your project that you see fit. There is also a directory of portals, at User:B2T2/Portal, listing all the existing portals. Feel free to add any of them to the portals or comments section of your entries in the directory. The three columns regarding assessment, peer review, and collaboration are included in the directory for both the use of the projects themselves and for that of others. Having such departments will allow a project to more quickly and easily identify its most important articles and its articles in greatest need of improvement. If you have not already done so, please consider whether your project would benefit from having departments which deal in these matters. It is my hope that all the changes to the directory can be finished by the first of next month. Please feel free to make any changes you see fit to the entries for your project before then. If you should have any questions regarding this matter, please do not hesitate to contact me. Thank you. B2T2 15:32, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Vietnam WikiProject Suggestion
Why not just make this a wikiproject Vietnam, as ther isnt one yet. Enlil Ninlil 04:40, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I propose the expansion of this WP into an entire WikiProject for Vietnam, like WikiProject Southeast Asia, I have posted the proposal at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Council/Proposals#Vietnam_WikiProject Chris 05:44, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia Day Awards
Hello, all. It was initially my hope to try to have this done as part of Esperanza's proposal for an appreciation week to end on Wikipedia Day, January 15. However, several people have once again proposed the entirety of Esperanza for deletion, so that might not work. It was the intention of the Appreciation Week proposal to set aside a given time when the various individuals who have made significant, valuable contributions to the encyclopedia would be recognized and honored. I believe that, with some effort, this could still be done. My proposal is to, with luck, try to organize the various WikiProjects and other entities of wikipedia to take part in a larger celebrartion of its contributors to take place in January, probably beginning January 15, 2007. I have created yet another new subpage for myself (a weakness of mine, I'm afraid) at User talk:Badbilltucker/Appreciation Week where I would greatly appreciate any indications from the members of this project as to whether and how they might be willing and/or able to assist in recognizing the contributions of our editors. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 20:46, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Vietnam WikiProject from WikiProject Council/Proposals

 * Description : I think that a separate WikiProject for Vietnam, as opposed to just a subset of WikiProject Southeast Asia and WP:MILHIST might be worthwhile. I'm frankly surprised there's not one already, given all the literature and exposure the nation has had the last 50 years. Chris 08:54, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
 * note also WikiProject Cambodia and WikiProject Myanmar (Burma)
 * Temporary project page: WikiProject Vietnam


 * Interested Wikipedians (please add your name)
 * 1) Chris 08:54, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
 * 2) Psdubow 13:46, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
 * 3) Would definitely be a valuable tool for improving and creating Vietnam-related content, and we have a good number of knowledgeable, committed editors in this subject. Badagnani 21:28, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
 * 4) Enlil Ninlil 06:02, 30 June 2007 (UTC) maybe Laos and Cambodia.
 * 5) enderminh 11:01, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
 * 6) Carl Kenner 11:11, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

I'd love to help. Just one question: Is this about the War or the country? Psdubow 13:46, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Comments
 * I envision that it would cover all Vietnamese topics, just as WikiProject Iraq covers all Iraqi topics in addition to the various wars. Thanks! Chris 21:12, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

This should be merged with WikiProject Vietnamese provinces, by the way. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 05:35, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Yes, it should Carl Kenner 11:11, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
 * How do we go about doing that? I have placed a discussion at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Vietnamese_provinces#Vietnam_WikiProject_Suggestion Chris 22:33, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I have also placed it at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requested_moves#July_2.2C_2007 Perhaps the omnipresent Warlord John Carter can help with the move? Chris 07:38, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure how to take the word "omnipresent" here. :) In any event, it wouldn't make sense for an active project to merge with a project proposal, particularly if the proposal doesn't have it's own active page yet. But, once the project is active, then there really wouldn't be any objections from anyone outside the projects if they were to agree to merge. But it certainly looks like this proposal could legitimately get a page for the proposal, and likely active project, developed for it. John Carter 13:42, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I think what the editor had in mind (and it makes good sense to me) is that instead of reinventing the wheel, taking the existing WikiProject Vietnamese provinces project that is smaller in scope but inactive, broadening the scope and making it a project for all of Vietnam. I think "merge" is probably not as apt a term as "expand." Since you have such skills, that is why I brought your name up. :) Chris 21:50, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Only problem there is that just about none of the content of the existing page really is directly appropriate for a project with the broader scope. I'll create a start on a page for a Vietnam Project, though. John Carter 22:12, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Name of template
Great work, ladies and gentleman, in creating this project. First of all, may I propose that we change the template name from "WikiProject Vietnam" to "WPVIETNAM" to make it easier to type? Like WPCHINA, it's easier when putting in dozens of templates at a time. Badagnani 05:42, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Support and second, I was thinking that. Or maybe WPVN, like WPIR and WPJ? Chris 06:15, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
 * It could be done. The only major questions which might come up arise when someone who isn't a member of the proejct decides to add the banner to a page, because they would most likely use the most common phrasing. But redirects to the other options could clearly be created. John Carter 14:35, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

I think it is possible to make redirects, in order that the two or three versions (including ones people might make up off the top of their head if they don't know what the name of the template is) will all redirect to the same template. Badagnani 21:53, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Done. Badagnani 16:40, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Comments
The project could probably stand having a sidebar to allow ready access to the project's various pages. Also, would the members of the project want a Articles page which could be kept to make it easier for the members to keep up with changes to the project's articles? John Carter 13:52, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
 * The sidebar sounds like a keen idea. As for the articles page, I imagine it could get out of hand quite quickly, and would only serve to be redundant to the categories. There are things like Japan-related topics notice board, where people post new articles they've created or found, but even this I've never found to be particularly useful; interesting perhaps, for knowing what's new, and for making sure that new articles are formatted correctly and such, but... Anyway, that's my two cents. LordAmeth 16:05, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I should have been clearer. The articles page would be something like WikiProject Lutheranism/Articles. Setting up such a page, one can then set up a recent changes link like that one which can be used to display all the recent changes to articles within that project's scope. It can be useful to check what if any positive changes have been made to articles, but is at best only a tool. John Carter 17:34, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Okies. If others find it useful... No worries. LordAmeth 05:29, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Articles for deletion/History of Vietnamese Youth Organizations
I nominated this for deletion prior to the creation of this project. If someone wants to actually write a good article on youth orgs within Vietnam, I would support that. It looks like this was the stub ends of another article. Chris 05:16, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Vietnam project logo or design
Hi folks. When John Carter started the project page for us here, he had included the red flag with the star, which is not specifically an indigenous Vietnamese design, and may not be acceptable to all users. I substituted with a map of the country, and a photo for the portal link. Is there an emblem or design or photo that is representative of all Vietnam and is not contentious with anybody? Is there a national mascot or flower or bird or famous building, or, heck, even a dinosaur? :) Please let me know. Chris 09:35, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I think the map or the flag is not much distinguished, but I prefer the flag (opinion only). However, the photo in the portal link (Ha Long bay) is no way specific to Vietnam. This is a list of national emblems (forgive me if I'm wrong, just based on what I learned at school)

(*Dinosaur: no dinosaur in VN, sorry.) That's all I can think of.  A  W  10:39, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Flower: red lotus, remember: red lotus, not white --> not sure :(
 * Tree: Bamboo --> It's true 100%.
 * Mascot: buffalo --> maybe... But this creature is dirty, not deserve to appear on the project page.
 * Bird: who knows....
 * Famous building: One pillar pagoda, Ho Chi Minh Mausoleum,...
 * P/s: why this project talk is categorized as article???  A  W  10:40, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
 * It's a function of the banner. By having that Category:WikiProject Vietnam articles, it's a lot easier to set up an articles list which can be checked for recent changes.John Carter 16:19, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Or you can take a look at portal Vietnam in vi.wiki. I think those headmost images are acceptable.  A  W  10:46, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Maybe a photo of one of the World Heritage sites, like Image:Grave khai dinh.jpg, Image: TuHieuPagoda.jpg, Image:Hue gate.jpg (I personally like this one), Image:The Kissing Cocks-Ha Long Bay-Vietnam.JPG, Image:Chua Cau Hoi An.jpg, Image:Trieu Chau Assembly Hall.jpg, or Image:My Son.jpg? John Carter 17:05, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Those World Heritage site suggestions all look good to me. As a pre-modernist, I'd love to have something more representative of the traditional culture or history than a modern Communist flag or other modern symbol. LordAmeth 18:33, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
 * One of the most popular themes for pictures and art in Vietnam is a boy sitting on buffalo. It is possible to use some picture of that kind.Ans-mo 06:47, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

It really does need to be the flag. The suppression of the Vietnamese flag really is extremely offensive, especially given the comments by Chris and LordAmeth. If you don't believe it is offensive, I suggest you go to Wikiproject USA and announce that you will be removing the US flag from it because supporters of the former southern states object to it and would prefer the confederate flag. In international politics it is usually considered an act of war, which is why the Vietnamese flag is universally recognised and accepted by all countries and international bodies. National flags do, by definition, represent the entire country, regardless of what those people think of the government. It is what all sports people compete under, all international performers use, etc. Not because they support any particular government or politics, just because (to anyone who grew up in Vietnam) that is the flag that represents all Vietnam and Vietnamese people. I'm certainly not going to let anyone remove the Australian flag from Wikiproject Australia, even though I want to get rid of its government, so don't remove the Vietnamese flag from everything. It is offensive to do so. Carl Kenner 17:08, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
 * The current flag of Vietnam is not intrinsically linked with Vietnam, as is the case of Australia and the US. Vietnam had historically used many flags, and this one is just the latest in a series of successive flags.  Furthermore, not all people in Vietnam were born under this flag.  In the discussion at vi.wiki, the items suggested for use in the banner is a lotus and a đình, a temple present in every Vietnamese village. DHN 17:16, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I can't understand that page at all, but if you can link to images of the items suggested there, I couldn't object to using the images the Vietnamese themselves use. John Carter 17:30, 10 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm sorry, but this has nothing to do with my political views for or against the current communist regime, and everything to do with the fact that that regime is a recent development and had nothing to do with the traditional culture, art, architecture, and pre-colonial history which I study. It's the same as if I were studying Han Dynasty poets or Song Dynasty painters and labeling them under the current People's Republic of China flag. It's not a political thing, but a cultural and historical and chronological thing. LordAmeth 23:26, 10 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Carl, your edits and work to fill in blanks are great, but you have to bear in mind, not all will be in agreement with your view. The Iranian and Burmese wikiprojects, to name two, do not use the present national flag on their pages in deference to exiles and refugees from the present governments, of which Australia has far fewer, as well as a less painful modern history. See Flag of the Republic of Vietnam for exactly why I substituted another image. I see you have already reverted the flag on the project template. If the consensus of the group is not to have it on there, will you accept that?
 * The banner at vi:Thảo luận Wikipedia:Trang chính Việt Nam about a third of the way down the page is really stunning. Would someone who speaks Tieng Viet ask them if they will upload it to Commons so we could modify the wording to English and use it here? Thanks! Chris 01:57, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I reverted it. I disagree with the use of a symbol which represents only 30 years of Vietnam, out of about 2000 years, and that too, one that only represents one regime.  Blnguyen  ( bananabucket ) 05:59, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
 * How about the Hoan Kiem Lake turtle? Badagnani 08:12, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Just kidding. How about a Đàn nguyệt? Badagnani 08:14, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I really do like Image:The Kissing Cocks-Ha Long Bay-Vietnam.JPG, too. Badagnani 08:15, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
 * And DHN's idea of "a lotus and a đình, a temple present in every Vietnamese village" is very good too--could we make our own version, different from vi:wiki's? Badagnani 08:17, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Paddy field
In the interest of more balance in the text, I invite fellow editors to contribute details on Vietnamese paddy fields: technology, characteristics, history, culture, etc.Mumun 無文 14:43, 17 July 2007 (UTC)


 * The various varieties of rice would be good too. Some of them have very cool names (like "fragrant lady"). Badagnani 08:10, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Two weeks!
Folks, I just want to congratulate and thank everyone for their hard work in building this project! Even where there is disagreement, this group has about the least strife of any I have been involved in, and I am proud to be counted among all of you! :) Chris 07:10, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

WPVN
Hi. Please note that when tagging with WPVN, you need to use "class=" not "quality=" otherwise the category won't be activated. A lot of the things are not activated and are "unassessed" because the varibale name is not typed in correctly (caps sensitive it seems).  Blnguyen  ( bananabucket ) 07:57, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Information request
Where might I find an article about the treatment of US POWs by the Viet Cong during the war? Jtrainor 22:07, 22 July 2007 (UTC)


 * It seems to be scattered hither-and-yon among several articles, nothing brought together under an umbrella article.


 * Missing in action
 * Fulbright Hearing
 * Prisoner-of-war camp
 * Vietnam War casualties
 * Joint POW/MIA Accounting Command
 * James Stockdale


 * I would support the expansion of POW camps in Vietnam from a list into such an article, if there is interest. Chris 22:36, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

first workgroup?
Along those lines, is there support among members to have a Vietnam War taskforce? It will likely eventually come up, so... Chris 22:36, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I guess the best person to ask would be User:RM Gillespie. He is the official go to man for WP:MILHIST on the Vietnam War. At the moment the military nitty gritty about tactics and stuff seem to be detailed (mostly done by military strategist editors), but the political background stuff is not so good. I'm continuing to work on the Diem era, for what it's worth, Ngo Dinh Can is now GA as well :).  Blnguyen  ( bananabucket ) 00:51, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Phoenix Program
Could some editors have a look at this article? Much of it has been deleted and rewritten in the last few days.--Timeshifter 00:57, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Lý Long Tường
Above page needs a lot of attention, currently marked for copyedit. Itsmejudith 21:52, 25 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I did what I could but there are about half dozen questions about the meaning, because the original wording was coming from someone with somewhat limited English. We might have to ask that editor what s/he meant by some of these things (I've added hidden editing comments). Badagnani 03:34, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Templates
Have we missed any templates here? I think we might want to add simple templates for Vietnamese rivers and other features. Badagnani 03:18, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Members page
I removed this from the participants section of the project page:


 * For the list of the participants and their specific interests -- or to add yourself to the list -- see our members page

The link is not working. I put a different sentence there: "Please add your time-stamp signature, or just your user name, to this list." --Timeshifter 15:32, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Broken rice -- need expert assistance
Does anyone know why "cơm tấm" is called "broken rice"? If so, please see the discussion page at Broken rice and expand the article accordingly. Thanks, Badagnani 00:05, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Like the fabled Eskimos who have 20 words for "snow", in Vietnamese there are at least 10 words that can be translated as "rice" in English (lúa, gạo, thóc, tấm, cơm, nếp, xôi...). Tấm refers to grains of rice that are broken up, essentially damaged rice.  Whatever is served with it is not essential for it to be called "cơm tấm". DHN 00:38, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Need input
Is this edit correct, that most inhabitants of the Mekong Delta are ethnically Khmer Krom? Badagnani 05:04, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
 * No I reverted it.  Blnguyen  ( bananabucket ) 05:16, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Even the most generous claims from Khmer Krom advocacy groups give 7 million in Vietnam, less than half the population of the Mekong Delta. DHN 05:20, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks--if this was an originally typically Khmer soup style (which I'm inclined to believe), then the wording could simply be changed to reflect that the Khmers were originally indigenous to the area and maintain a significant cultural presence in the modern day. We do want to be as comprehensive and authoritative in the contextual examination of these subjects. Badagnani 05:18, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh unfortunately I know nothing of food. And given my tendency to not use anything which isn't in a textbook, I'm not likely to be useful.  Blnguyen  ( bananabucket ) 05:24, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanh Tung
Hi, I was wondering if anyone at this Wikiproject might be able to help put up an article on this musician. There is an outstanding request for an article on him at WP:AR1, and he has a Vietnamese entry (here), but there is very little information on him in English, so far as I can tell. Chubbles 23:22, 25 September 2007 (UTC)