Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Visual arts/Public art

Conversion into task force
Hi @Another Believer, I was looking at the subpages of this WikiProject, and it looks like PALon isn't the only taskforce here, but some other long-dormant task forces exist too, as subpages under a different title. See
 * Subpages under current title with capital "A" in Art


 * Subpages under old title with small "a" in art

There hasn't been any discussion on them at all. &#8212;CX Zoom[he/him] (let's talk • {C•X}) 13:00, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I don't think most of these were intended as "task forces", & they don't use that term. User:Ham II set up the London ones i think, & may want to comment. Johnbod (talk) 13:07, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
 * seems to be saying that there should be consultation (possibly in the form of an invitation to a centralised discussion) on the task forces' talk pages, i.e. the following:
 * Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Public art/TheArtistResearchProject (there has never been any discussion on this page)
 * Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Public art/TheArtistResearchProject/TonySmith (last post in December 2018)
 * Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Public art/IndianaStatehouse (last post in January 2011)
 * Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Public art/Indy (one and only post by Another Believer in July 2019, advertising an RfC)
 * Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Public Art/London (last post in March 2022)
 * Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Public art/Milwaukee (last post by Another Believer in July 2019, advertising an RfC; otherwise the only post was in October 2010)
 * Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Public Art/NYC (there has never been any discussion on this page)
 * Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Public art/D.C. (last post by Another Believer in July 2019, advertising an RfC; otherwise the only post was in February 2011)
 * WikiProject Public art/EVolunteerPlan/IMA (there has never been any discussion on this page)
 * Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Public art/EVolunteerPlan/ROM (last post in September 2014)
 * On this evidence I think it's reasonable to post a message on the London talk page and (possibly) the Tony Smith one.
 * Something not yet discussed: what will these pages' names be if WikiProject Public Art is a task force of WikiProject Visual arts? I'd like the London one to be WikiProject London/Public art (note: not Public Art). Will the inactive ones be at (e.g.) WikiProject Visual arts/Public art/Milwaukee? Ham II (talk) 09:58, 21 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the ping. That is what I meant. I read above that, for London, it can be moved under WP London, but for the others I'm not sure where they go to. I think there needs to be some sort of discussion for them. And if they are moved elsewhere, then that project would have to be notified too. &#8212;CX Zoom[he/him] (let's talk • {C•X}) 17:08, 21 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Can't these all be converted into task forces of WikiProject Visual arts? Seems easier than asking all these WikiProjects if they want to "take on" a task force. Let editors of the specific task forces decide their own fate, but for now, they can just be moved to the parent of WikiProject Public Art, no? For example, move WikiProject Public art/Indy to WikiProject Visual arts/Indy. Just a thought. --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 21:19, 23 August 2022 (UTC)
 * No, please don't rebrand the zombies by converting them into anything. Just mark them as inactive, with a pointer to the most relevant live project. Or just leave them where they are. Johnbod (talk) 21:49, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

The main outcome I want from this discussion is one less talk page template – basically, replacing Template:WikiProject Public Art with a public art parameter for Template:WikiProject Visual arts. After looking into this some more it doesn't seem to be necessary to change page names or the project's name in order to achieve this (although I still think it should be Public art, not Public Art). WikiProject District of Columbia sits within WikiProject United States in talk page templates, e.g. at Talk:United States Capitol. The only WPPA task force with a parameter at Template:WikiProject Public Art is the London one, and that could be replaced on talk pages with a new public art parameter for Template:WikiProject London, as well as the public art parameter for Template:WikiProject Visual arts I should think. I've also, at last, posted on the London and Tony Smith talk pages alerting users to this discussion. Ham II (talk) 14:57, 28 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Sounds good. Johnbod (talk) 16:25, 28 August 2022 (UTC)
 * @Ham II, Johnbod, Another Believer: I've modified the WP Visual arts and WP London banner sandboxes as discussed above. When the conversion is complete, a template editor can just sync the main banner with its sandbox (the bluelink will need some modification). A bot request or AWB request should convert all existing uses to the new banner in a few days. An example of the use of WP London banner can be seen at Special:Diff/1107789091, it has both the public_art and public_art-importance parameters. An example of the use of WP Visual arts banner can be seen at Special:Diff/1107796570, it has the public_art parameter but I haven't added importance params as the current WP Public Art banner doesn't have it either. If any changes would be needed, please let me know. &#8212;CX Zoom[he/him] (let's talk • {C•X}) 23:37, 31 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I'll keep an eye out for changes! --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 23:43, 31 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much for the sandbox changes. I've now changed the page name of the London public art taskforce to WikiProject London/Public art and updated the link in WikiProject London/sandbox to reflect this. (When I said above that page names didn't need to be changed, I was referring to the inactive task forces, not the London one.) At WikiProject Visual arts/sandbox, I've changed the public art icon from WSPALogo2.svg to Auguste Rodin - Penseur.png, which I think is easier to identify at that size. Ham II (talk) 12:39, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks! &#8212;CX Zoom[he/him] (let's talk • {C•X}) 07:20, 12 September 2022 (UTC)
 * So I think we shouldn't move the remaining city-specific subpages per Johnbod's suggestion above. Please let me know if that is what we should do. In that case I'd just keep a subpage under the new task force which lists old inactive city-specific subpages just in case someone in the future wants to take it up. &#8212;CX Zoom[he/him] (let's talk • {C•X}) 07:20, 12 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes, agreed. The subpage you've suggested already exists at WikiProject Public Art/Projects. I'm happy for WikiProject Visual arts to be updated now with the contents of WikiProject Visual arts/sandbox, ditto for WikiProject London and WikiProject London/sandbox, and for a bot/AWB request to be made to edit all the affected talk pages.
 * After those edits have happened I'll have remind myself how to base WikiProject London/Public art/Popular pages on instances of WikiProject London with the public art parameter, rather than WikiProject Public Art with the London parameter. Ham II (talk) 11:10, 17 September 2022 (UTC)
 * The changes to WikiProject Visual arts and WikiProject London have been approved and I've made the bot request: . Ham II (talk) 09:54, 2 October 2022 (UTC)


 * I'm hoping to finally complete it by this week after a long period of prorastination. So, I came here and found that we haven't yet selected a destination name. So, I was wondering, here should this go? Pinging @Johnbod, @Another Believer, & @Ham II for input.
 * 1A. WP:WikiProject Visual arts/Public art 1B. WP:WikiProject Visual arts/Public art taskforce
 * 2A. WP:WikiProject Visual arts/Public arts 2B. WP:WikiProject Visual arts/Public arts taskforce
 * Thanks, &#8212;CX Zoom[he/him] (let's talk • {C•X}) 21:44, 15 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I prefer WikiProject Visual arts/Public art task force --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 21:49, 15 October 2022 (UTC)
 * @Another Believer: "task force" with a space in between? &#8212;CX Zoom[he/him] (let's talk • {C•X}) 22:01, 15 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes, per WikiProject Council/Guide/Task forces --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 22:07, 15 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Certainly "art" not "arts" (or we'll have music, dance etc). Otherwise I don't mind. Johnbod (talk) 21:51, 15 October 2022 (UTC)
 * As per what I said here on 28 August, my first preference would be WikiProject Public art. I made the edit request at Template talk:WikiProject Visual arts on the assumption that it wouldn't be changing from WikiProject Public Art, so a second request would have to be made if there's any change. Ham II (talk) 18:48, 16 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Per above, I believe that there is a consensus in favor of "WikiProject Visual arts/Public art task force". I will proceed with it once 24 hours are over. Please let me know if anyone disagrees. Thanks! &#8212;CX Zoom[he/him] (let's talk • {C•X}) 18:55, 16 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I do disagree, because the sub-pages would have especially long-winded names: e.g., WikiProject Public art/TheArtistResearchProject/TonySmith would become Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Visual arts/Public art task force/TheArtistResearchProject/TonySmith. This would be my order of preference:
 * WikiProject Public art
 * WikiProject Public Art (no change)
 * WikiProject Visual arts/Public art
 * WikiProject Visual arts/Public art task force
 * Ham II (talk) 19:32, 16 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Fine with 3 or 4. I prefer to avoid the idea there is an active WikiProject Public art when there isn't. Johnbod (talk) 21:45, 16 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Indeed, that kinda misses the point that the current WikiProject is being merged into another as a task force. &#8212;CX Zoom[he/him] (let's talk • {C•X}) 06:50, 17 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Fair point; I'm happy to go with #3. Ham II (talk) 08:03, 19 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Per the updates above, I believe that there is a consensus in favor of "WikiProject Visual arts/Public art" (without explicitly referring to as a task force). Again, I hope to proceed with it once 24 hours are over. Please let me know if anyone disagrees. Thanks! &#8212;CX Zoom[he/him] (let's talk • {C•X}) 16:42, 20 October 2022 (UTC)
 * No objections raised, so moving ahead with "WikiProject Visual arts/Public art". &#8212;CX Zoom[he/him] (let's talk • {C•X}) 13:46, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * @Ham II: For the time being, I've created Category:WikiProject Public Art pages needing to be recategorised under WikiProject London for merger which would populate with pages of WP:PALon that are currently using WikiProject Public Art. I'll tranfer them all over to the new Template:WikiProject London. Once done, possibly by tomorrow, I'll continue. &#8212;CX Zoom[he/him] (let's talk • {C•X}) 16:52, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I've now emptied that category by changing all London public art articles to WikiProject London. If someone decides to use those parameters in the future it will populate Category:Pages using WikiProject Public Art banner with deprecated parameters which will remain there until the parent banner is redirected to Visual arts banner once all existing transclusions are modified. &#8212;CX Zoom[he/him] (let's talk • {C•X}) 06:39, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
 * WikiProject Public Art currently does not supports "importance" parameter. Do we need a importance parameter when merged into WikiProject Visual arts or not? &#8212;CX Zoom[he/him] (let's talk • {C•X}) 08:31, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Absolutely not, as WikiProject Visual arts doesn't have them. Johnbod (talk) 15:28, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
 * @User:Johnbod: importance parameter of task forces is independent of its parent WikiProject. &#8212;CX Zoom[he/him] (let's talk • {C•X}) 16:55, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Well it would be odd, and i'd still advise against it in any case, not that it matters at all. Johnbod (talk) 18:00, 28 October 2022 (UTC)


 * petscan:23413558 shows a list of 2334 pages that have WikiProject Visual arts on it, but not WikiProject Public Art. Should I just add the public art banner or manual review is required? &#8212;CX Zoom[he/him] (let's talk • {C•X}) 14:11, 5 December 2022 (UTC)
 * 3 days and no replies yet, so I guess this is what I will be doing. &#8212;CX Zoom[he/him] (let's talk • {C•X}) 18:55, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Argh, why?? Most VA pages shouldn't have the PA one (I'm surprized the number without isn't larger) and really, what use is adding it. It waws normally only added to sculpture on the streets, and hasn't been much use for them. I'd be inclined to leave things as they are. Johnbod (talk) 19:13, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
 * @Johnbod: I'm sorry I just wrote the exact opposite of what I intended to say. The original comment would be "petscan:23413558 shows a list of 2334 pages that have WikiProject Public Art on it, but not WikiProject Visual arts. Should I just add the visual art banner on them or manual review is required?" &#8212;CX Zoom[he/him] (let's talk • {C•X}) 19:21, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Ah! Thanks. In the meantime I'd looked at the list & they nearly all seem right for PA & all ok for VA. So yes, ok to add the lot. Johnbod (talk) 20:21, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Public art has already become a WikiProject banner parameter under visual arts. So the change would basically be  →   &#8212;CX Zoom[he/him] (let's talk • {C•X}) 19:25, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
 * @Johnbod: please see User:CX Zoom/TestPage30. It lists some petscan queries that, if resolved, will make it very to complete this process. There are some 55 articles that have one quality rating on public art and another quality on visual arts. To merge, both should have the same quality rating or one could be used to override the quality rating of another. What to do here? The rest can be automated using AWB. &#8212;CX Zoom[he/him] (let's talk • {C•X}) 09:19, 18 December 2022 (UTC)

I'm starting to see lots of template conversions in my watchlist (example, example, example). Thanks to all who helped with this process. --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 17:06, 22 January 2023 (UTC)
 * All done. Extremely sorry for the delay. Due to real life matters I was near-inactive for quite some time, and then I had forgotten about this until recently. &#8212;CX Zoom[he/him] (let's talk • {C•X}) 19:58, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

Cambridge II
A few of us are working on a public art list here:
 * WikiProject Visual arts/Public art/Cambridge,_Massachusetts

which could turn into a mainspace list. – SJ + 00:46, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

Wikidata items in public art lists
There is a discussion regarding the public art list header template at Village pump (policy). Please leave any comments you have there to keep discussion in one place. Thryduulf (talk) 11:26, 30 April 2024 (UTC)