Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Wales/Archive 2007

(early discussion)
Talk:WikiProject Wales--Pilipala9 22:52, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Hi. Can I just be clear - should we put the banner on the article itself, or on the talk page? Practice seems to vary. Deb 12:40, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
 * The banners are selfrefs therefore have to go on the talk-page. Agathoclea 19:12, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Hi, can you explain the proposed differences in intention between this project and Welsh Wikipedians' notice board? Bards 03:00, 30 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Quite simply this is a WikiProject, and not a notice board!! Every other country within the UK had one except us. Now we have one too. --Pilipala9 11:16, 5 February 2007 (UTC)


 * WikiProjects are also the Foundations sly way of ensuring that core articles of top-level subjects (ie countries) get the needed attentention before the next CD version gets produced. Basically first we identify which articles belong to the project then rate their importance and quality. Natually we want to improve important articles first. Agathoclea 19:18, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Project Co-ordinator
I have added my name to the list of WikiProject coordinators to make sure we receive any important comunication. This does not mean that I see myself as any sort of leader here. I'd actually be happier if someone else would step forward. But sofar things are running a little slow here. Agathoclea 19:18, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

maps
I have a 1/4 inch to the mile OS map of south wales from 19467 (therefor public domain) that I can scan bits of if people can come up with bit that would be interesting to scan. An example of what the scans are like can be seen at Image:Milford Haven harbourmap1946.jpg.Geni 01:02, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

New infoboxes
A new infobox has been developed for use on UK places articles. If you have any concerns or appraisals, please make them at Template talk:Infobox UK place. Regards, Jhamez84 01:59, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I have already made it plain that I do not support the dropping of the historic county field, but my objections have been ignored. If this is supposed to replace the existing templates it absolutely needs to provide the same information as the previous ones or a lot of editors are going to be very annoyed. Owain (talk) 13:58, 17 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Consensus can change. It has. consensus has been assessed three times in response to your complaints, and in each case, the new consensus was not to your liking.  DDStretch    (talk)  14:09, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Raglan
The link to Raglan village is wrong - it links to Raglan New Zealand rather than http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raglan%2C_Monmouthshire - I don't know how to correct this.

Thanks Cheryl Morgan Raglan, Monmouthshire, UK


 * Which link to Raglan? If you're more specific, I'll fix it so that it point to Raglan, Monmouthshire, but there are a lot of references to "Raglan" on Wikipedia...  If what you mean is that Raglan is about New Zealand not Monmouthshire, that can't be fixed: that place was written about on Wikipedia first.  (I've left a message on your IP talk page to the same effect).  Bencherlite 21:15, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Infobox flag straw poll
Hello fellow editors. A straw poll has opened today (27th March 2007) regarding the use of flags on the United Kingdom place infoboxes. There are several potential options to use, and would like as many contrubutors to vote on which we should decide upon. The straw poll is found here. If joining the debate, please keep a cool head and remain civil. We look forward to seeing you there. Jhamez84 11:38, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Renaming of sub-categories of Category:Welsh people by county and Category:People by city in Wales
A discussion about whether to rename categories along the lines of Category:Natives of Anglesey to Category:People from Anglesey is underway at Categories for discussion/Log/2007 April 25. A full list of the categories in question is set out there. Bencherlite 01:10, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Bertrand Russell GA/R
I have nominated Bertrand Russell for WP:GA/R due to inadequate referencing. I hope the article gets the attention it deserves during this process to retain its quality rating. Please see discussions at Good_article_review. TonyTheTiger (talk/cont/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 16:50, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Changes to Template:WikiProject Wales
I've added some code to Template:WikiProject Wales (taken from our sister project for Scotland's template, because I know nothing about template codes!) to make the WP:Wales banner on talk pages display whether the article has been rated on the importance scale, not just the quality scale, and if so what that rating is. I tested it before use in the template sandbox and in my userspace, and all seemed fine, so I've "been bold" and gone live with it. I've had a look at a few articles (e.g. Talk:Beaumaris (start/???), Talk:Welsh law (GA/mid)) and the new version is working as I hoped. However, if you notice any problems, let me know and I'll either call for help from someone who knows about template codes or revert back. Diolch, Bencherlite 20:22, 3 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I've also added "List" and "NA" as optional parameters, so that these pages don't keep showing up in the "unassessed" class. Does anyone know how to add them (and "Cat") to the table showing how many articles are in which category? Bencherlite 11:14, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Great - that can be most annoying having all those fake unassessed articles. As far as the Cat/Template.ect numbers in the table, that would be a WP 1.0 wide issue. Possibly best to ask the botowner for an opinion first. Agathoclea 11:57, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I'll see what happens when the bot next runs and take it from there.  Bencherlite 11:58, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Collaboration possibilities
OK, the assessment drive is coming along nicely and we now have about 650 articles tagged. 8 are FA class, 6 are GA class, and we have 82 at B-class. With a bit of a push, I would have thought that many of these B class articles could be polished up to GA class, or better. I would also have thought that it makes more sense to tackle higher importance topics first. So, with that in mind, here is the current list of B-class articles given "top" or "high" importance ratings, in alphabetical order within three general groupings:


 * Locations
 * Administrative divisions of Wales • Anglesey • Cardiff • Flintshire • Gwynedd • Harlech Castle • Merthyr Tydfil • Newport • Powys • Swansea • Wales • Wrexham


 * People
 * Aneurin Bevan • Anthony Hopkins • Charlotte Church • David Lloyd George • Gruffydd ap Cynan • Henry VII of England • Katherine Jenkins • Llywelyn the Last • Mary Jones (Bible) • Owain Glyndŵr • Owain Lawgoch • Richard Burton • Ron Davies (British politician) • Rowan Williams • Ryan Giggs • Shirley Bassey • Taliesin • Tom Jones (singer)


 * Others
 * History of Wales • Plaid Cymru • Politics of Wales • Manic Street Preachers • Super Furry Animals • Welsh language

Whilst, of course, voting is evil, would anyone care to suggest which articles they would like to turn collective attention to first? Calling it a "Collaboration of the week" may be pushing it timewise, given that this isn't the busiest of WikiProjects! Bencherlite 18:50, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

UK place infobox
Hello WikiProject Wales participants,

I produce maps for use on UK settlement articles, within the Template:Infobox UK place. I would like to bring some of the Welsh settlements upto date with a standardised Welsh specific map, but I'm unsure how (or indeed if at all) the map of Wales should be subdivided as a geographic frame of reference. Which should I use?...


 * 1) Principal areas of Wales
 * 2) Preserved counties of Wales
 * 3) Some other Administrative divisions of Wales
 * 4) No subdivisions, just a plain Wales map
 * 5) Create no map, and continue to use the standard plain UK map (as used on Buckley).

Hope you can help me here, as I'd be glad to return the favour and help the project improve its settlement articles. Indicating your prefered number would be ideal. Thanks, Jza84 00:24, 4 July 2007 (UTC)


 * ...Well... we'll continue using the UK map until there is a request to move forwards. Jza84 22:32, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

British only nationality proposals on wikipedia
(quoting) A rather interesting proposed innovation in guidelines is taking place at Manual of Style (United Kingdom-related articles) and Wikipedia Talk:Manual of Style (United Kingdom-related articles). Essentially, it is an attempt to prescribe that all Scottish, English, Welsh and Northern Irish people be called "British" in all articles concerning people from the United Kingdom. Essentially, if one finds themselves trying to retain "Sir Thomas Sean Connery (born August 25, 1930) is an Academy Award-winning Scottish actor and producer " instead of "Sir Thomas Sean Connery (born August 25, 1930) is an Academy Award-winning British actor and producer", the person pushing the latter will be able to quote the British only guidelines at you. If you support or oppose this innovation, or if you have any thoughts, you should go to the talk page. (end quote) --MacRusgail 14:48, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Persistent anti-Welsh language insertion on Welsh language article
There is a bit of an edit war going on at the moment with User:Jez9999 repeatedly inserting a "Criticism of Welsh" section which, imo, is unrepentantly POV and simply an example of a user posting their personal beliefs on a topic they are hostile towards. Take a look and judge for yourselves, Wales/Welsh language isnt really my area of expertise although the tone of the section is unmistakablely not neutral imo. siarach 12:35, 8 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I think the real problem is that it's blatantly OR. There certainly are people who are opposed to, or at least sceptical of, the modern promotion of Welsh, and it's worth discussing this in the article – though perhaps ideally in the context of the modern promotion of Welsh in general. But unless it's backed up with representative citations, it shouldn't go in. garik 18:17, 8 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Yeah. I dont doubt there are probably a fair few people who feel the same way as the editor in question (not just in Wales but anywhere there is a similar language situation) but as you say it is most certainly OR and it also reads like someone putting forward a bit of a personal rant on a forum. As youve said on the discussion page a place could certainly be found within the article for coverage of any anti-Welsh language movements/prominent attitudes etc but they would have to be encyclopedia worthy. siarach 08:34, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

This point of view is not exactly new in Wales, and it hasn't been driven underground by the recent resurgence of the language. I suspect that if anyone were unwise enough to hold a poll on the subject in Wales as a whole, it might still be a majority view. Wikipedia policy says that only "tiny minority" positions need not be represented. Perhaps a way around this problem is to get such discussion moved to "Wales" rather than "Welsh Language" since the topic is a political issue rather than a linguistic issue. The subject of the language article is, after all, the people who do speak it; not those who don't. . . .LinguisticDemographer 13:42, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Welsh placenames and placename elements
I can't find an article on this subject. Did it once exist and get killed? Such an article would be very useful to many people. French Wikipedia has an excellent "Toponymie bretonne" which would be a model for it. Or is there a better way of covering the topic? . . . .LinguisticDemographer 14:04, 22 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't think I have seen one on Welsh placenames, although I have seen several on people's names. Just had a look at Toponymie bretonne, and it looks like a reasonable model to me; but it would be nice to have more than just lists in categories, I think. Someone will only come along and slap a "consider converting these lists to prose" tag on it - probably me :) That said, I'd be interested if such a page is started. Telsa (talk) 16:41, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Proposed Butetown, Tiger Bay and Cardiff Bay project
I have had a look at the various articles which seem to address the Butetown/Cardiff Bay area, and they all seem a bit "confused":
 * Butetown - seems to address Butetown in poor detail, and also refers to but does't link to Tiger Bay
 * Tiger Bay - seems to refer little to Butetown, and covers much of the historic development of the docks/Bay
 * Cardiff Bay - seems quite an accurate article on covering the development of the bay post 1987

There are also a few straggler/linking articles, such Cardiff Bay Barrage, Queen Alexandra Dock (what about the other docks?) and the Butetown Branch which covers the railway. It seems like an ideal area for a project, which in my mind would:
 * Create a new article called Cardiff docks, to cover the docks development and current workings
 * Upgrade the Butetown article, by seperating the Tiger Bay article into it and the new Cardiff docks article

Thoughts? Rgds, - Trident13 08:46, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Wales national rugby union team
Hi, I've been working on Wales national rugby union team, and am trying to get it up to Featured Article standard. I was wondering if anyone had a Welsh rugby jersey they could take a photograph of? The more recent the better but ever if it's a couple of years old will still be great for the article. is an example of what I'm trying to find. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. - Shudde   talk  05:41, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Spelling query
I wonder whether any Welsh speakers here can shed any light on whether the mountain Pen Llithrig y Wrach should be spelt "Wrach" or "Wrâch"? Both appear to be in moderately common use in English-language sources. Thanks. — ras52 10:48, 17 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm not familiar with the mountain, but it's more than likely a mutation of the word Gwrach (Witch), which has no circumflex on the 'a'.--Rhyswynne 14:53, 24 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks for clearing that up. "Witch" is indeed translation usually given, even by sources that use a circumflex. — ras52 17:06, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

The use of Welsh county names in categories - please join in a discussion
There is a discussion underway at Wikipedia talk:Welsh Wikipedians' notice board on whether old shire county names should be used in articles / categories, with particular reference to List of castles in Wales and the subcategories of. All views are welcome. Please join in! BencherliteTalk 22:50, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Manual of Style (biographies): British, or English, (Northern) Irish, Scottish, Welsh?
Hi, there's currently a proposal by me for "Manual of Style (biographies)" to be clarified with usage notes regarding the use of "British" or "English", "(Northern) Irish", "Scottish" and "Welsh" to be used to describe the nationality of persons in biographical articles. Do provide your views at the "talk page" so that broad consensus on the matter can be reached. Cheers, Jacklee 16:59, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Category:Schools in Wales
I have sorted the organisation of categories for schools in Wales so that they are found in county groups, eg Category:Schools in Powys rather than dumping in the parent category Category:Schools in Wales. All schools have been moved out of the parent. Swansea, Cardiff and Newport have Education in... parents as well (eg Category:Education in Cardiff). A typical school should be a member of its county grouping and also the all-Wales category, eg Category:Secondary schools in Wales. An incomplete list of schools can be found at List of schools in Wales. Welsh 21:15, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Help!
Normalmouth keeps reverting and removing sourced information from Politics of Wales, and while I have asked for others to peer review the artical he changes it before anyone has had a change to see it! Please, can someone help me!!Drachenfyre 14:32, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Wales national rugby union team now Featured Article candidate
I have nominated Wales national rugby union team for Featured Article status. If you would like to comment at the article's candidacy page you can do so Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Wales national rugby union team. Thanks. - Shudde   talk  08:31, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Wales national rugby union team now Featured Article candidate
I have nominated Wales national rugby union team for Featured Article status. If you would like to comment at the article's candidacy page you can do so here. Thanks. - Shudde   talk  08:32, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Roads in the United Kingdom
I have created the article above today. I would appreciate any help or pointers with adding information regarding the history of roads in Wales. Regan123 (talk) 18:51, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Flag of Wales
Hi! I have found on German wikipedia these two flags of Wales: and. Why do we not use these flags on English wikipedia? Especially I would be interested in which flags can be used for the FIFA World Cup qualification 1954 and FIFA World Cup 1958. Kind regards and :) Doma-w (talk) 01:10, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I've never seen either of those two flags before. The 1st looks like the Welsh Office logo imposed on a green and white background.--Rhyswynne (talk) 09:16, 21 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Many thanks for your reply. These two flags are also shown on Flags of the world. Kind regards Doma-w (talk) 00:02, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Point of Ayr and Mostyn
Hi all. I've found myself doing some work on the Point of Ayr stub article. I've managed to add some info on the (now closed) colliery, and the lighthouse. I've also started creating articles for the red links in there.

If anyone could review the article, and the associated new links that would be great TicketMan - Talk - contribs 12:41, 2 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Hi again. I've now dealt with most of the red links from Point of Ayr. However, in researching Mostyn Colliery, I can't find reference anywhere to a closure date - the latest reference I can find is 1880. Considering it's importance in the area there is so little written about it, and it is missing from sites about the coal industry. I'm thinking it possibly had another name, but thats only a guess. Can anyone help? TicketMan - Talk - contribs 13:17, 4 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Panic over - found a reference to closure in 1884 TicketMan - Talk - contribs 07:32, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

History of the Jews in Wales
If anyone can help, still needed is an article about the History of the Jews in Wales to complete the History of the Jews in Europe. Thanks, IZAK (talk) 12:53, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Leighton Andrews article (persistent anonymous vandalism)
Is there some way to protect this article against anonymous vandalism ? Once again this evening, some one has removed all references to his previous career as a Liberal candidate in Gillingham etc.

The history of vandalism on this article is - afaict - by anonymous contributors. Some one obviously has a really keen desire to airbrush out certain things in this article. --Darren Wyn Rees (talk) 19:37, 30 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I've added Leighton Andrews to my watchlist. The recent IP edits were from a BT Broadband account, so the chances are that it will be a different IP address next time - nevertheless, it's still a good idea to leave warning messages on the IP's talk page if you see vandalism / inappropriate removal of facts etc. If the vandalism keeps up, let me know and I'll see whether a dose of page protection is needed.  BencherliteTalk 11:03, 1 January 2008 (UTC)


 * I wonder why they are rubbing it all out - Ho Hum! I previously revamped the article here, and note now that the Walter Wolfgang incident is also missing. Overall, its a pretty poor article at present, with lots of cross edits and poor reading - is it worth putting in some concerted effort? Normally, a few experienced editors will out play a few "agenda-ised" anons! Rgds, - Trident13 (talk) 13:05, 1 January 2008 (UTC)