Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Wales/Archive 2015

RCAHMW - PDFs
The Royal Commission have digitised & made freely available many of their out of print publications published before 1965 here, free of charge. Great as sources and content! Llywelyn2000 (talk) 14:45, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
 * This is great. Do you know if we are free to use any images from those works? Daicaregos (talk) 18:28, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
 * No! Thy're 'freely available' but no change as to their copyright. But we're getting there! Llywelyn2000 (talk) 10:33, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

WikiProject X is live!


Hello everyone!

You may have received a message from me earlier asking you to comment on my WikiProject X proposal. The good news is that WikiProject X is now live! In our first phase, we are focusing on research. At this time, we are looking for people to share their experiences with WikiProjects: good, bad, or neutral. We are also looking for WikiProjects that may be interested in trying out new tools and layouts that will make participating easier and projects easier to maintain. If you or your WikiProject are interested, check us out! Note that this is an opt-in program; no WikiProject will be required to change anything against its wishes. Please let me know if you have any questions. Thank you!

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Harej (talk) 16:58, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

Full-time Wikipedian in Residence at the National Library of Wales
Following years of discussions, piloting open content uploads and an unofficial partnership with Wicipedia Cymraeg since August 2008, the NLW has now appointed a WiR for a period of one year. Wikimedia has recognised the National Library as one of the UK's most ground breaking institutions, as far as free and open content is concerned. More information UK's blog and here on the Library's website. Jason Evans will start at the NLW, where heworks as a librarian, on the 19th January. Llywelyn2000 (talk) 20:38, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

Category:Cefnmeiriadog and others nominated for deletion
There's a mass nomination of categories for deletion which participants here may have a view on. It can be found at Categories for discussion/Log/2015 January 18. Sionk (talk) 14:25, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

Iolo Morganwg
I know the whole topic is kind of sickness-inducing, but Talk:Iolo Morganwg outlines some major problems with Wikipedia's current coverage of Mr Williams and the Iolo Manuscripts. Given the number of articles that are going to eventually be created on Welsh historical figures whose juiciest bits will come from these sources, we really do need better treatment of this fiasco and what's known to be salvageable from it. — Llywelyn II   08:37, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

Editathon at Swansea: 28th January 2015
An Editathon is to be held at Swansea University on the 28th January. New and experienced Wikipedians are welcome to beef up exiting articles and create new ones based on Medieval and Early Modern Women. The university has an exciting proect: 'Women Negotiating the Boundaries of Justice: Britain and Ireland c.1100-c.1750 which 'explores women's relative access to justice in various parts of Britain and Ireland between the twelfth and eighteenth centuries.'

This may be the start of something really good. And there's even a free lunch! Please join us. Llywelyn2000 (talk) 11:25, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

Hi all. We have only 3 trainers, and we need a couple of experienced editors to work with groups of students and staff, please. Wikimedia UK can help with travel costs should you need. Let me know using my wiki mail please. Llywelyn2000 (talk) 13:25, 6 January 2015 (UTC)


 * The day went well, as you can see here and in a blog on Wikimedia UK's home page here, written by Prof. Deborah Youngs and Dr Sparky Booker. How about an editathon in your home town? Let me know if you need help to organise! Robin Owain (WMUK) (talk) 12:37, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

Photography edit-a-thon at the National Library
Just a heads-up please to all admires of Philip Jones Griffiths' work, as well as others including John Thomas. Jason Evans, the new Wikipedian in Resident at the National Library, will host an edit-a-thon based on Welsh photographers whose work are held at the Library. More details can be found here. Images not yet available to the public will be available for Wikipedians. Llywelyn2000 (talk) 18:56, 14 February 2015 (UTC)

Welsh flag - pre 1953
I have asked a question at Reference desk/Humanities. I have asked which flag was used to represent Wales prior to 1953. Feel free to answer there. Nanonic (talk) 14:05, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Under the radar
I'm confused by the phrase under the radar herewhich means invisible. Sorry if I'm being pedantic. I'm presuming the WikiProject Wales template should be put on new articles' talk pages.  Tony Holkham   (Talk)  21:59, 6 April 2015 (UTC)
 * I think the phrase whoever wrote that page was looking for is "on the radar". Yes, the template should be put on article talk pages. – PeeJay 22:05, 6 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks for that. Just making sure.  Tony Holkham   (Talk)  22:08, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

Ambiguity of "community"?
User:SovalValtos has raised a valid question here about the use of the word community in the Wales-specific sense. It would be interesting to know whether anyone has any thoughts on it.  Tony Holkham   (Talk)  13:13, 6 April 2015 (UTC)


 * I'd keep it as it is. The blue link does the job. I just think we should ensure that in Welsh articles we ensure that we don't accidently use community in its traditional sense and that we blue link each article correctly. FruitMonkey (talk) 17:19, 6 April 2015 (UTC)
 * I agree. The Wikilink to Community (Wales) is enough. Daicaregos (talk) 17:49, 6 April 2015 (UTC)


 * It does seem a bit Easter egg-y to me. In print, or for those using screen-readers, the link may well be hidden, so the text needs to make sense without the links. In this case, "Llansomewhere is a community ..." doesn't make the relevant distinction clear to people who don't already know about Welsh councils. Describing somewhere as a "local government community" is probably unambiguous, but perhaps a little awkward. "Community (cymuned)" also doesn't seem to help, because cymuned translates both meanings of "community". Is it necessary to include the local government status in the lead? If places were described in terms like "a village in Powys", "a town in Denbighshire" or "a hamlet in Carmarthenshire", then we could leave it until a later section to say something like "The community council also covers the nearby hamlet of ...". If the community council boundary and the natural boundaries of the village are contiguous, then perhaps nothing more needs to be said. There may not be an ideal solution. "Community" was probably a bad choice as a name for that class of council, but we're more than 40 years too late to change that. --Stemonitis (talk) 18:05, 6 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Pipelinking Community (Wales) isn't an Easter egg. The bracketed Wales in the article title is for disambiguation purposes only. Pipelinking community to that page is to prevent the disambiguating word (Wales) from displaying in the aticle text. The reason it is linked is to explain the word's use as a technical terms to the reader (per WP:UNDERLINK). Daicaregos (talk) 20:16, 6 April 2015 (UTC)
 * But no reader is going to know from the context that we are not using the word "community" in its everyday sense, and that's the ambiguity we're trying to avoid. --Stemonitis (talk) 20:50, 6 April 2015 (UTC)
 * That's why it is linked. Daicaregos (talk) 14:48, 7 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Requiring a reader to click on the link in order to explain a word or phrase is exactly what WP:EGG is about, and is something to be avoided. Explanation by linking is bad practice. --Stemonitis (talk) 15:14, 7 April 2015 (UTC)
 * No, an easter egg link would be something like this, where the displayed text carries no indication of what is being linked to. Piping Community (Wales) to community is standard practice. – PeeJay 15:47, 7 April 2015 (UTC)
 * It is perfectly acceptable to link to an ambiguous term by using a pipelink to the correct article title. Each article has a unique title. Links should be made to them directly, without necessarily using the actual article title. As the editing guideline Disambiguation says “There are three important aspects to disambiguation:
 * * Naming articles in such a way that each has a unique title. For example, three of the articles dealing with topics ordinarily called "Mercury" are titled Mercury (element), Mercury (planet) and Mercury (mythology).
 * * Making the links for ambiguous terms point to the correct article title. For example, an editor of an astronomy article may have created a link to Mercury, and this should be corrected to point to Mercury (planet).” (NB. I included only the relevant first two) Pipelinking in this way does not create an Easter egg. Daicaregos (talk) 16:06, 7 April 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm not saying it's the most egregious form of link, just that it won't be obvious to the reader that the word doesn't mean what it would in any other sentence, and that we shouldn't be relying on links to make that distinction clear, because the links don't appear in all media. Outside Wales, no one will guess that "community" is used here in the sense "civil parish". We're talking about the first line of an article here, so there is no context to rely on. "In Sydney, Oxford Street runs ..." is fine, because you've provided context. Likewise, saying "the lowest tier of local government in Wales are the communities" is fine (apart from the grammar). When you open an article with "Llansomewhere is a community", however, no context has been established, and there is nothing to rule out the plain-English meaning of "community". The sense of that word is very likely to be misunderstood, and that's what matters. Whether we call it an easter egg or not is really neither here nor there. --Stemonitis (talk) 16:18, 7 April 2015 (UTC)
 * If readers assume the plain English meaning, I don't see anything wrong with that. The fact that the word "community" has a specific meaning in Wales doesn't need explaining in every article where it's used. – PeeJay 16:24, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

Some good input above. I think that User:Stemonitis has a clear grasp of the problem. The text needs to make sense without the link. A reader from another continent might not even consider that community could be an ambiguous word. There is a problem in leading the reader to assume the plain English meaning, as the article does not then make sense, which I found when I first came across it. Can anyone think of a better term than "local government community"? SovalValtos (talk) 10:09, 8 April 2015 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure but if someone wrote "Llansomewhere is a Community" as opposed to "Llansomewhere is a community" I would wonder about the capitalisation, which would indicate a non standard usage. EdwardLane (talk) 10:53, 8 April 2015 (UTC)


 * I'm glad this was raised; some interesting comments. I do worry, though, that if a consensus about a change is reached, there are hundreds of articles where the word community (meaning local government) appears. Can of worms springs to mind.  Tony Holkham   (Talk)  11:00, 8 April 2015 (UTC)


 * something in the region of 1000-1500 articles point to community (wales) based on this it might be possible for a bot to make a change. EdwardLane (talk) 11:13, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

Are we getting anywhere? The choices seem to be - By the way, I try not to use the word "community" in its ordinary sense in Welsh articles because of the possible ambiguity. Does anyone outside Wales really need to know there is a distinction? My feeling is "no", in which case I favour doing nothing.  Tony Holkham   (Talk)  16:37, 9 April 2015 (UTC)
 * (a) Do nothing
 * (b) Make a change across the board (is it possible?) such as -
 * Capitalise "Community"
 * Italicise community
 * Don't pipe (i.e. leave as Community (Wales))
 * Use "local government" (or something else) as a prefix

Castell Coch
Passed FAC! Hopefully Cardiff Castle will soon enough too!♦ Dr. Blofeld  19:08, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

Welsh Elections, constituency and regional results
I was looking through both the scottish and welsh election pages and I noticed a difference. The lists showing the wins of the constituencies and regions in the Mid and West Wales were shown as massive tables, showing not only the winners but also the candidates as well. It takes up alot of space, looking quite messy and often requires a scroll bar to see all the results across the table. The Scottish elections have tidy lists showing the winners of the constituencies and regions and is easy to read. It also gives details on how much the parties won in each region.

Therefore I am wondering if the welsh election pages could be edited to have the same format as the scottish elections. As both countries have the same voting system, I feel it would be appropriate and give a look of consistency throughout the site.

However as it would be a major change, therefore I am looking for peoples views on the matter and if it would be alright to go ahead with editing?

Humongous125 (talk) 23:16, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

Athena Swan Edit-a-thon at Swansea
There's an Edit-a-thon at Swansea University on Monday 18th May. More information here. I've taken your suggested female scientists from our 2014 archives. Please contact Jason from the National Library for further information. Llywelyn2000 (talk) 10:30, 14 May 2015 (UTC)

SWALEC Stadium listed at Requested moves
A requested move discussion has been initiated for SWALEC Stadium to be moved to Sophia Gardens (cricket ground). This page is of interest to this WikiProject and interested members may want to participate in the discussion here. —RMCD bot 22:49, 28 May 2015 (UTC)

Anglo-welsh poets
Why are women ( with one lone exception) excluded  from the main category? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.37.173.247 (talk) 19:07, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Women are not excluded from Category:Anglo-Welsh poets. Anyone can add them to the category - please do so. If you are unsure how to do that, please note their names here or on my talk page and I will add them for you. Daicaregos (talk) 07:32, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

British Society for the History of Science Editathon at Swansea
The British Society for the History of Science Annual Conference is this year held at Swansea. Please join us for an afternoon of communal updating of Wikipedia entries on subjects related to the history of science, technology and medicine. Take a look at the Wikimedia UK event page. Members of Wikimedia UK can apply for help towards their travel costs.

This is a really great partnership, where once again, Swansea is in the Premier League of Wikipedia! I hope to be there and I look forwards to meeting you all. Robin Owain (WMUK) (talk) 12:44, 18 June 2015 (UTC)


 * You will be pleased to here that Andy Mabbett will be taking the wiki skills training at Swansea on Friday. There's a warm welcome for any one to help, and join in of course. Llywelyn2000 (talk) 12:59, 30 June 2015 (UTC)

2014 Archives lost in translation?
The 2014 archive file seems to be lost. Llywelyn2000 (talk) 13:09, 30 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Found it (Archive 2014) and the Archive 2015 too. I've added them the archive list at the top of the page. Daicaregos (talk) 09:26, 2 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Diolch Dai! Llywelyn2000 (talk) 13:32, 13 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Croeso, you're welcome. Daicaregos (talk) 13:37, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

62 Welsh newspapers
The front page of 62 Welsh newspapers have just been uploaded by Jason Evans on behalf of the National Library. Please create articles on these newspapers and tag these images into them, if you have interest in publishing / print. 2.26.180.2 (talk) 19:47, 15 July 2015 (UTC)


 * The List of newspapers in the United Kingdom is much too large. An effective, useful list is List of newspapers in Massachusetts and we should build something similar. The above link (to the NLW) has more than 80 newspapers not on List of newspapers in the United Kingdom (as found here, but I'm hesitant to develop such a mammoth. We need also to include Welsh language newspapers printed throughout the world: USA, New Zeland, Patagonia, Egypt as found on the Welsh language wiki here. John Jones (talk) 08:59, 16 July 2015 (UTC)


 * There's a lot of work here, on both cy and en, as well as other languages. We need somehow to inspire other languages to add articles about Wales, and since the GLAM/Welcome to Llwybrau Byw! - Living Paths!/20 - 20 Challenge I can't see any inspiration, other than what's happening on Twitter and in the NLW. Interesting to see that the Galicia 20 - 20 Challenge copied our format, a few weeks ago, and was another success. Llywelyn2000 (talk) 07:02, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

Commons - Category:Wales
This had become a quagmire of around 1,400 images. I've recategorised quite a few, and there remains 250 - the geograph stuff - which I've placed into this temporary category. Each image needs changing 'Category:Wales' to something like 'Category:Beddgelert'. Category:Wales needs no images, only sub-cats. I would be grateful if you could help with this: I've done most of them. Diolch, Llywelyn2000 (talk) 23:09, 13 July 2015 (UTC)


 * I've got it down to around 170 uncategorised images. Llywelyn2000 (talk) 06:38, 21 July 2015 (UTC)


 * As there is no interest in these (none have been categoried), I suggest they all be deleted. They're low res. Llywelyn2000 (talk) 11:06, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

Engravings and watercolours from the NLW
I've cropped and tried to enhance around 100 of these fab images today. Each one can be used to illustrate a Wikipedian article: there are 1,399 in all. Give it an hour or two, and we would be well away! Diolch! Llywelyn2000 (talk) 23:32, 30 July 2015 (UTC) In a few months, the new images uploaded have had well over 2 million views, as Jason mentioned here, with stats. Around 3,000 new images will be uploaded in the next few weeks, please help get them into wiki. If you have a Twitter account, please retweet Jason, NLW and of course @Wici Cymru. Llywelyn2000 (talk) 10:33, 10 August 2015 (UTC)


 * Nice! I've added half a dozen or so to appropriate Wikipedia articles (though many of the prints are repeats, or of obscure subjects/views). Sionk (talk) 18:13, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

Welsh-speaking people
See this category discussion. It's only now that I notice the category wasn't tagged as belonging to the WikiProject Wales. Marcocapelle (talk) 23:10, 29 August 2015 (UTC)


 * Participants may be interested to know Category:Welsh-speaking people is now being proposed for deletion, at Categories for discussion/Log/2015 September 15. Sionk (talk) 18:56, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

Using the new NLW images in other (--> 280) languages
I wish we could add stuff about Wales / from the NLW onto other languages, rather than only editing wiki-en. The world is a much wider, diverse place; so let's get out there and help others. Can we get these fine old maps, for a start? Llywelyn2000 (talk) 04:39, 23 October 2015 (UTC)

Please join the discussion
I've expressed a view at Category talk:Welsh-language occupations and would like to gauge opinion on this. Deb (talk) 09:49, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

Enable Apertium on cy, for Content Translation
We're through to the next round on getting Content Translation working on cy. Please vote! Llywelyn2000 (talk) 07:19, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

Hywel Dda Edit-a-thon
A Hywel Dda Edit-a-thon will be held at The National Library of Wales of October 16th, 2015 to focus on improving content relating to Hywel Dda, the Laws of Hywel Dda, and their legacy. Everyone is welcome! Jason.nlw (talk) 11:14, 24 September 2015 (UTC) Thanks for the invite.


 * The article below is from NLofWales sources. Victuallers (talk) 15:45, 11 October 2015 (UTC)

Any suggestion where the fab images in the newly uploaded Category:Peniarth 482D Vaux Passional can be used? Which articles? Llywelyn2000 (talk) 09:17, 5 December 2015 (UTC)