Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Wales/Archive 2018

Cadw template request
Is there an individual listed building and structure page provided by Cadw that we can link to in a template equivalent to the NHLE one? I dislike using the British listed buildings website as it is an unofficial commercial site with advertising and is not updated with the regularity of statutory pages. Is this the Welsh version of this ? No Swan So Fine (talk) 16:30, 8 January 2018 (UTC)
 * - Hello Swan, I hope you are keeping well. I find this the best CADW site,, with two caveats. First, it's a map, so you have to know the location of your desired building. Second, quite a lot of listings are, very, brief. I've discussed this with CADW, who accept it is a resources issue. That said, it generally works very well and you can use it for embedded cites, just like Historic England. This Trewyn House shows how I've used it. Once you've accepted the T&C, you just click the CADW Listed Buildings box, go to the area you want, click on the pin for the relevant building, and then click on the Details line. Hope it helps. Drop me a note if you need more. All the best. KJP1 (talk) 18:14, 8 January 2018 (UTC)
 * p.s. Have you seen Cragside? It might appeal. KJP1 (talk) 18:28, 8 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Thank you - I've loved Girouard's Victorian Country House for several years now, there are so many fantastic pictures of gloomy hulks in there. Should we request that a CADW template be created? Lovely article, by the way! No Swan So Fine (talk) 13:35, 9 January 2018 (UTC)

Monmouth School
This is currently up for Good Article review if anyone fancies having a stab at it. KJP1 (talk) 19:45, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Now done. KJP1 (talk) 12:14, 1 April 2018 (UTC)

Grade II* listed buildings in Monmouthshire
Now that the Grade I listed buildings in Monmouthshire list is complete, I'd really like to do the same for the Grade II*s. What we're lacking at the moment, aside from the articles themselves, are images. We are missing 29, out of a total of 244. This is good for plotting where the missing ones are. If any Wales Project members find themselves on the byways of Monmouthshire, I'd really appreciate it if some of the gaps could be filled in. I picked up another eight last weekend, but my visits aren't as frequent as they once were. Many thanks. KJP1 (talk) 09:14, 27 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Mostly private houses, by the look of it. I don't think I can help much with those. Deb (talk) 20:00, 27 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Indeed they are, but not on the Chatsworth scale and therefore often fairly near public roads, rather than surrounded by large estates. The tricky bit is finding them! All the best. KJP1 (talk) 20:06, 27 April 2018 (UTC)
 * In some ways that makes it harder, though. You'd be bound to be noticed, and some householders might be suspicious (in addition to not wanting photos taken). Deb (talk) 14:54, 28 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Ah, I see what you mean. Actually, in having taken about 60 of those that we have got, that's not been my experience at all. With a single exception, people have been delighted when I've explained why I want a photo, and pleased to encounter someone who has an idea of the significance of their house. Sure, there's a lot of rural crime in Monmouthshire, as elsewhere, and farmers particularly are understandably suspicious, but they tend to be fine once one has explained. I've had one difficult encounter with a householder who just really didn't want their house photographed, but that was more than offset by another who was so delighted she invited me in for tea! But obviously your call entirely. Best regards. KJP1 (talk) 15:39, 28 April 2018 (UTC)
 * This advice may help.  Tony Holkham   (Talk)  15:08, 28 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Very helpful, thanks. KJP1 (talk) 15:39, 28 April 2018 (UTC)

Looking for a paper
In updating the articles on the Women's Liberation Movement/Women's Liberation Movement in Europe, I ran across reference to a paper which was delivered by Avril Rolph (Rolf, A. 2002. Not just the miners’ strike: "The women's liberation movement in South Wales") at this conference in 2002 at the University of York. I have been unable to find any links to conference papers (only an abstract of the paper) or compilations on this conference which might include the paper. I have written to the conference administrator in hopes of finding the paper and done an extensive websearch without result. As I am in Mexico, there are at times difficulties in retrieving sources elsewhere. Would anyone who is part of this project know how I might gain access to this source? I have found reference to another paper "Too friendly for feminism? The early years of the women's movement in south Wales" by the same author, which was published in Llafur (2006), Volume 9, Issue 3, which is also inaccessible to me, but might be helpful, if someone could provide a copy. Thank you for any assistance or direction you might be able to give. SusunW (talk) 19:51, 26 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Might it not be possible to contact Avril Rolph through Women's Archive Wales, of which she seems to be a committee member? See Deb (talk) 19:58, 26 May 2018 (UTC)
 * No idea but I'll be glad to give it a try. SusunW (talk) 20:18, 26 May 2018 (UTC)


 * You could try The National Library of Wales. They do have a list of some of her papers.  Tony Holkham   (Talk)  20:28, 26 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks there are a couple of sources there on the WLM, but it required me to create a sign in to request them. When I did that, it said they were only available in print at the library. Maybe she or someone will repond to the e-mail I sent to the women's archive Deb provided. Fingers crossed. SusunW (talk) 20:44, 26 May 2018 (UTC)

WikiProject collaboration notice from the Portals WikiProject
The reason I am contacting you is because there are one or more portals that fall under this subject, and the Portals WikiProject is currently undertaking a major drive to automate portals that may affect them.

Portals are being redesigned.

The new design features are being applied to existing portals.

At present, we are gearing up for a maintenance pass of portals in which the introduction section will be upgraded to no longer need a subpage. In place of static copied and pasted excerpts will be self-updating excerpts displayed through selective transclusion, using the template Transclude lead excerpt.

The discussion about this can be found here.

Maintainers of specific portals are encouraged to sign up as project members here, noting the portals they maintain, so that those portals are skipped by the maintenance pass. Currently, we are interested in upgrading neglected and abandoned portals. There will be opportunity for maintained portals to opt-in later, or the portal maintainers can handle upgrading (the portals they maintain) personally at any time.

Background
On April 8th, 2018, an RfC ("Request for comment") proposal was made to eliminate all portals and the portal namespace. On April 17th, the Portals WikiProject was rebooted to handle the revitalization of the portal system. On May 12th, the RfC was closed with the result to keep portals, by a margin of about 2 to 1 in favor of keeping portals.

There's an article in the current edition of the Signpost interviewing project members about the RfC and the Portals WikiProject.

Since the reboot, the Portals WikiProject has been busy building tools and components to upgrade portals.

So far, 84 editors have joined.

If you would like to keep abreast of what is happening with portals, see the newsletter archive.

If you have any questions about what is happening with portals or the Portals WikiProject, please post them on the WikiProject's talk page.

Thank you. &mdash; The Transhumanist  08:00, 30 May 2018 (UTC)

Mary Hopkin
Please contribute to the discussion at Talk:Mary Hopkin, which concerns whether a detailed list of TV shows should be included in the article about the singer. Verbcatcher (talk) 19:09, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

Parliament for Wales Campaign- potential source
Here is the link to an essay by J Graham Jones I found that has researched this red-type topic. Perhaps someone would like to review it's content and put together an article after checking his sources some. The link offers one to share it on Facebook, LinkedIn and more so I believe that equals CC rights. Mrphilip (talk) 04:42, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

The Celtic Knot Conference, at the NLW, Aberystwyth
Following last year's Celtic Knot Conference at Edinburgh, tickets are now on sale for this year's Celtic Knot Conference at the National Library, Aberystwyth. It's being organised by the world's only National Wikipedian, Jason Evans, and the opening speech is by our Minister for Welsh Language and Lifelong Learning, Eluned Morgan.

As the name suggests the original focus of the conference was the 6 Celtic language Wikipedias including Welsh, Gaelic, Breton, Cornish and Irish. And whilst Celtic languages were well represented, the conference also attracted delegates from Norway, Catalonia and the Basque country. Wikidata, the wiki community, multi-lingualism and education will all be huge themes at this years conference as we work together to grow the diversity of Wikipedia and to encourage the use of indigenous languages in a digital environment.

More info, and registration... here! See you there! Llywelyn2000 (talk) 06:11, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

Discussion on naming
There is a proposal to remove accent in the name (and all body references) for the Owain Glyndŵr article. This has implications for all welsh names (not to mention the use of the umlaut form of u in german articles and so on -Snowded TALK 04:29, 9 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Has now morphed into a formal page move request -Snowded TALK 21:12, 12 June 2018 (UTC)

4,878 new images of biogs from the National Library
Fantastic work by Jason, our National Wikimedian, who has just uploaded 4,878 new photos to Commons - National Library of Wales Portrait Archive. There's a lot of work involved here, together with the 300,000 or so linked data on Wikidata eg add categories, crop a copy using the Commons CropTool, add to WP articles. Enjoy! Llywelyn2000 (talk) 08:21, 25 June 2018 (UTC)

Bristol meetup
I am organising a meetup in Bristol for this summer - provisionally Saturday 1 September 2018, and you are invited (everyone is welcome). I know Bristol isn't in Wales, but it will be within reach of those of you in the south east of the country. For details see Meetup/Bristol/3 to join the discussion, including expressing preferences about dates and venues, see the talk page at m:Talk:Meetup/Bristol/3. Thryduulf (talk) 19:32, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

St Donat's Castle
but...if anyone still fancies a review, this is up for PR here,. KJP1 (talk) 14:04, 1 April 2018 (UTC) :Now done, but it will soon be on its way to FAC where any comments would be equally welcomed .KJP1 (talk) 09:46, 6 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Now passed. KJP1 (talk) 13:58, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

Notability - Welsh language sources?
John Rhys Evans has been tagged for notability. The references are sparse and yet he seems to have had a fairly distinguished operatic career (besides being Sir Geraint's half-brother). I've looked for Welsh-language sources but can't find any - which seems surprising. Any thoughts?


 * I think notability is OK. His obit (name John Evans) was published in the Washington Post in 2010 (indirect ref here ). He died in the USA, so maybe a search there would be more fruitful than in Wales.  Tony Holkham   (Talk)  13:51, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

Tredegar Park
There is a discussion about what to do with Tredegar Park/Tredegar House Country Park/Tredegar Park, Newport at Talk:Tredegar House Country Park. Who might be interested as they have done work on wards.  Crouch, Swale  ( talk ) 17:03, 21 September 2018 (UTC)

Church Farmhouse, Caldicot - request for an image
In connection with some work I'm doing on listed buildings in Monmouthshire, I'd really appreciate a photograph of Church Farmhouse, should any editors live in/visit Caldicot. I'm not sure how accessible it is from the public highway, Google Earth indicates it might be, and obviously the privacy of the owners should be respected. This 2017 advertisement,, suggests you wouldn't miss it if you saw it! Thanks and regards. KJP1 (talk) 17:08, 21 September 2018 (UTC)

Importance of county council articles
I've noticed that Pembrokeshire County Council is rated low importance and Ceredigion County Council is mid-importance. Should all county councils have the same level of importance and, if not, why not?  Tony Holkham   (Talk)  16:07, 25 September 2018 (UTC)
 * It fits with the importance criteria of the Wales WikiProject to assess them as 'mid'. Sounds a sensible rating, IMO, especially for the larger authorities (maybe all of them). Sionk (talk) 20:20, 25 September 2018 (UTC)
 * That was my feeling. Thanks, .  Tony Holkham   (Talk)  21:29, 25 September 2018 (UTC)

Referencing lists of listed buildings
Comparing the lists Grade I listed buildings in Monmouthshire and Grade II* listed buildings in Monmouthshire with some of the best examples we have, e.g. Grade I listed buildings in Bath and North East Somerset or Grade I listed churches in Cumbria, an obvious weakness of the Monmouthshire lists is the lack of references. User:Rodw and User:Peter I. Vardy have addressed this in slightly different ways. Rod has a Reference column at the end of the lists, while Peter puts the references in the Notes section. Assuming there is agreement that references are desirable - I don't think we would get any of the Welsh lists up to FL standard without them - are there any views on the best way to include them? Secondly, what references should we use? Taking Tintern Abbey as an example, the obvious possibilities would be this, or this. Are there any others? It would be very helpful to get a collective view on this such that the approach adopted could then be used on the other Welsh listed building lists as they are developed. KJP1 (talk) 08:40, 26 September 2018 (UTC)
 * P.S. Should I ping some of the major contributors to the Monmouthshire articles, User:KTC, User talk:Nev1, etc. directly? KJP1 (talk) 08:46, 26 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Looking at Grade I listed buildings in Monmouthshire as an example (and assuming others are similar) I note the use of Template:Cadw listed building row and Template:Cadw listed building header These appear to be similar to Template:English Heritage listed building header and Template:English Heritage listed building row, but these include the rows "| show_ref = yes " & "| reference =", which the Welsh ones don't appear to have. I don't know enough about templates to know whether these could be added to the Welsh ones. A template expert such as User:Pigsonthewing might be able to advise. As for which reference to use I would always go for the government one (ie http://www.coflein.gov.uk/) over the .net one. In England I would always use the Historic England one (which appears to be down this morning) over British Listed Buildings which has a delay before any updates are included from the official list and with the possibility of adverts appearing at some point in the future.&mdash; Rod talk 09:19, 26 September 2018 (UTC)
 * - Most helpful. I'm a complete template dullard so this is way beyond my paygrade and I shall ask elsewhere. Nev1 will also be able to advise as he's done a lot of work on Grade I listed buildings in Greater Manchester, another FL. He adopts a structure like yours, with a Ref. column to the far right. Re. the sources, the net. version is also government, but Cadw rather than RCAHMW. The advantage of the Cadw is that it gives much more info. than the Coflein, although they struggle to keep it up to date due to resourcing/funding issues. Many thanks again. KJP1 (talk) 10:40, 26 September 2018 (UTC)

Reassess Gresford disaster
It's been ten years since Gresford disaster was assessed as start/mid. The article has been substantially improved since then, is it time for a reassessment?
 * Definitely! Deb (talk) 15:45, 3 October 2018 (UTC)

Tom Pryce nationality
There is a discussion concerning Tom Pryce, a featured article associated with this project, taking place at Talk:Tom Pryce for those interested. -- DeFacto (talk). 17:03, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

RfC on election/referendum naming format
An RfC on moving the year from the end to the start of article titles (e.g. South African general election, 2019 to 2019 South African general election) has been reopened for further comment, including on whether a bot could be used move the articles if it closed in favour of the change: Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (government and legislation). Cheers, Number   5  7  15:42, 20 October 2018 (UTC)

Geographical stub articles proposed for deletion
I have proposed the stubs Meini Duon and Trwynmynachdy for deletion as they are rocks with no information on them (and as far as I can see no particular distinguishing features); they are listed in the Ramsey Island article. I'm not sure whether the proposals will automatically be listed in Article alerts, so I am mentioning it here.  Tony Holkham   (Talk)  22:56, 30 December 2018 (UTC)