Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Wales/Archive 2021

Welsh Government COVID-19 videos
Hi all. After a few months of discussions, the Welsh Government have agreed to place all their You Tube videos on a Creative Commons open licence (CC-BY) and an OGL licence. This is massive! I don't think any other governments have done this; correct me if I'm wrong! I've so far added around 40 of their videos on Commons, and they will be adding pre-July videos in the next few weeks, also on open licences, which I will add to this list (with summaries) on Commons. You can add them to the COVID-19 pandemic in Wales article, and any other articles of course! They could also be a separate list article, a kind of video diary. Feel free to use and reuse on any of our wiki projects! Llywelyn2000 (talk) 18:03, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks, . I'm very pleased, but not surprised; Wales has many sources (e.g. national biographies, newspapers, journals) free to search, whilst other in parts of the UK quite hefty search fees may apply.  Tony Holkham   (Talk)  21:45, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
 * That's really kind of you Tony! It's been a lot of hard work, but yes, Welsh Government, Coleg Cymraeg, NLW, WJEC, Sain (Recording), Llen Natur, Natural Resource Wales videos, and the Welsh Book Council have all responded positively to my requests. Where internal policy changes have occurred (Welsh Gov, Coleg, NLW etc), the open content will continue on a permanent basis! More coming soon! Llywelyn2000 (talk) 09:03, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Welsh Government have now changed all of their 1,500 videos on YouTube to CC-BY! So help yourselves to those on the WG's YouTube channel. I've converted (MP3 -> WebM HD) and uploaded around 70 to Commons. Llywelyn2000 (talk) 17:21, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

Shwmae! I've uploaded a short advisory video based on our Test, Trace, Protect system run by NHS Wales. I've also created a Welsh language stub article Profi, Olrhain a Diogelu (Test, Trace, Protect). There is an English article based on the NHS Test and Trace system in England, but nothing on the other 3 nations (as usual!) Thanks! Llywelyn2000 (talk) 17:30, 11 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Ardderchog! Deb (talk) 18:50, 11 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Just published - Test, Trace, Protect. Please give it an MOT! Thanks! Llywelyn2000 (talk) 15:23, 13 February 2021 (UTC)

Tom Rees (airman) nominated for deletion
Curse you Red Baron. First of his victims. Eradicating history again. The article was a DYK. And looks it. Well developed article, but anything can be improved. 7&amp;6=thirteen (☎) 16:39, 17 February 2021 (UTC)

Welsh fiscal deficit
Re: Welsh fiscal deficit. I've tagged this article as Political POV. Only one side has been considered by the user, and half truths. He's also reverted my edits as it 'doesn't look like the cited sources meet WP:RS'. None of the sources are banned on WP, and include: www.businesstimes.com, Nation.Cymru, swalesmetroprof.blog (Prof. Mark barry, Cardiff University), International Institute for Strategic Studies. John Jones (talk) 00:35, 17 February 2021 (UTC)


 * It's concerning that so many Welsh-related articles are currently being nominated for deletion and that discussions like this are taking place without being notified to this project in the normal way. But I would advise you don't give the user any further excuse to accuse you of bias or of personal attacks. Deb (talk) 13:16, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

Little Newcastle
I have left a note on Talk:Casnewydd Bach as I have my doubts about the move from the English name to the Welsh equivalent, given the south Pembrokeshire location and the reasons given. I would like to think such moves might be discussed before they happen.  Tony Holkham   (Talk)  20:17, 3 March 2021 (UTC)

Move discussion Newport Bridge, Newport
There is a discussion on moving Newport Bridge, Newport to a less ambiguous title. Please contribute to the discussion. Polyamorph (talk) 09:45, 11 March 2021 (UTC)

FAC
Hi, I currently have an FAC running for a Welsh related topic in Johnny Owen that could use a few extra eyes if anyone has the time. It would be much appreciated, thanks. Kosack (talk) 11:43, 5 April 2021 (UTC)

Anybody in/near Rhyl?
Hi, I am writing an article on the infamous punch that John Prescott landed on an egg-throwing protestor in the 2001 general election campaign. It happened outside the Little Theatre in Rhyl (specifically between the guardrail and the wall on the footpath at the centre of this Google Streetview image), but I haven't been able to find a free photograph of the theatre. I don't suppose anyone has one they could share, or is able to take one? Many thanks - Dumelow (talk) 08:26, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
 * An article on a punch? How much content can you possibly get out of that that couldn’t be adequately summarised in the John Prescott article? – PeeJay 08:33, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
 * See this (??!!). Hopefully, if it's ever created, it will be very speedily deleted.   Ghmyrtle (talk) 08:54, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
 * What a welcoming WikiProject this is! The article is now in mainspace at Prescott punch.  There is plenty of RS coverage of the incident which has been described as the most memorable event of the 2001 election campaign; I look forward to discussing it further at AFD.  If anyone is local to Rhyl and manages to take a photo it would be greatly appreciated - Dumelow (talk) 06:27, 7 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Please don't mistake my apathy over a topic you've clearly spent a lot of time researching for a lack of welcome to this WikiProject. Evidently the incident is far more notable than I gave it credit for. – PeeJay 14:16, 7 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Hi PeeJay, thanks and apologies, I spoke in haste. Thankyou for your edits to fix my typos! - Dumelow (talk) 15:30, 7 May 2021 (UTC)

List of cultural icons of Wales
I came across the above quite by chance. Its criteria for inclusion (or exclusion) seem very subjective, and it’s very cite-lite. As just one example, Cardiff Castle isn’t listed, but Cardiff Metropolitan Cathedral is. Does the list have any validity? It certainly doesn’t seem to be verifiable. KJP1 (talk) 12:47, 7 May 2021 (UTC)
 * It's quite a random list, but a well-sourced article would be acceptable. So, I'd suggest improving the article rather than having it deleted.   (Not that I'm going to start doing it myself.)   I see that there was an attempt to streamline it in this edit, but unfortunately it was reverted without any further discussion.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 07:44, 8 May 2021 (UTC)

Rhys ab Owen
How should this new Plaid Senedd member be listed in the defaultsort? I know that ab Owen is a patronymic for his father Owen John Thomas, but would this man be referred to as "ab Owen" or "Owen" at all where we would usually put a surname? To complicate the matter further, there are several professional references where he uses the surname Thomas, but not in his political career, so it seems. Unknown Temptation (talk) 17:54, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
 * All I can find is WP:PEOPLECAT which doesn't help much. -- Red rose64 &#x1f339; (talk) 18:09, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
 * After he's sworn in, presumably within a few days, he will presumably be listed at the Senedd site, so we should use whatever alphabetical order is used by them. Until then, I would have thought that "ab Owen, Rhys" would be suitable.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 22:03, 8 May 2021 (UTC)

Category:Wales AMs 2021– has been nominated for discussion
Category:Wales AMs 2021– has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Sionk (talk) 11:46, 9 May 2021 (UTC)

Gilwern Concrete Arch Bridge.
Hello. Does anybody already have a photo', please, of the the new, record breaking concrete bridge, at Gilwern, of their own taking that they'd like to place on the Gilwern page ? Not the 'Jack Williams' ' bridge, but the arched one that's part of the same new A465 improvements, and is now the record holder. I live many miles away, and now the record of its existence is mentioned, a copyright-free picture to show should be just the thing. Thanks. Heath St John (talk) 22:04, 30 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Let me see . . Geopersona (talk) 18:57, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
 * There's one at https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/6214936 - no issue with those from Geograph - many are used on WP. Geopersona (talk) 19:01, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Now uploaded to Commons, File:Station Road flyover, Gilwern - geograph-6214936-by-M-J-Roscoe.jpg. -- Red rose64 &#x1f339; (talk) 20:44, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

Wiki Loves Earth


Hi all. In order to improve nature photos on articles related to Wales, we've now entered into the international Wiki Loves Earth competition. Their main website is here, and the Wales entry is here on Commons.

The project is bilingual and all photos must be uploaded in June, and its aim is to produce quality images from conservation areas, which are listed on the project's page, and includes all three National Parks, Areas of Outstanding Natural Beauty, Sites of Special Scientific Interest in Wales, Natura 2000 specified areas and one UNESCO biosphere reserve. WiciMon and Wikimedia UK are leading the project together with three national organizations, which will be announced immediately after the forthcoming election.

If you're interests include photography, fauna and flora, geography or geology, Wales or the world, then please join us! Llywelyn2000 (talk) 07:37, 9 April 2021 (UTC)


 * Thanks to everyone who have uploaded! The competition is now at an end, with nearly 2,000 new photographs! If you would like an online Wikimedia UK Zoom editathon on adding the images to Wikipedia and Wikidata, please add your name below (pls enable email). is organising a Welsh language session on the 16th July at 7pm. Best regards... Robin aka Llywelyn2000 (talk) 09:09, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

Thanks to all those who contributed! For the first time in history, Wales stood shoulder to shoulder with 32 other nations in a WikiLoves / Wikimedia competition. Stats:
 * UPDATE, and a quick thanks to all!
 * 1,888 images were uploaded! Out of 33 countries, we were 7th! We're a BIG nation: strong, resourceful, proud, caring (if I hear 'too small' once again...!) Fast at our heals were Sweden, Italy, Spain and Australia! Stats here on Toolforge (refresh twice).
 * 52 photographers joined in from Wales!
 * 17% of the images are used on WP articles - please help add more!
 * Iestyn Hughes and Jean Napier will now be judging the uploaded images from Wales. I'll let you know the outcome as soon as possible.
 * The uploaded images are Commons:Category:Images_from_Wiki_Loves_Earth_2021_in_Wales here.

Diolch to everybody! Llywelyn2000 (talk) 13:51, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

Palestine-Wales Editathon Project / مرحبًا بكم في برنامج التبادل الثقافي بين فلسطين وويلز
In collaboration with Palestinian editors and Wikimedians of the Levant, I've created a short competition / project over the coming month (August).

Arabic and Welsh-language editors will translate articles from en-wiki; English-language editors can develop existing articles based on Palestine culture. There's are two wish-lists of articles by Palestine cy-wiki editors. As most already exist in English, I've left the list blank, so that editors can choose themselves. If you add the number of kb in the next column, we'll be able to list the editors by number of kb. Take a look at the project page and be prepared for Sunday (1st August). I've met their main organiser, a wonderful person named Bara'a, and would like to arrange a Zoom meeting with her to discuss the project, if you're interested. Let me know on the Project page. And if you know of any past Welsh connections with the Palestinian people or Palestine itself, please get in touch!

The competition is run by Wikimedia UK, and there will be token prizes.

There are five fields of interest: Enjoy! And any help would be appreciated! Thanks! Llywelyn2000 (talk) 13:19, 28 July 2021 (UTC)
 * 1) Women
 * 2) Dishes/Food
 * 3) Places of interest
 * 4) COVID-19 Panademic
 * 5) Culture


 * Update and thanks
 * New article created in Arabic about Wales : 57
 * New articles in Cornish about Palestine: 44
 * New articles in Welsh about Palestine: 142
 * Articles developed in English on Palestine: 0
 *  Total # of new articles: 242 

Year in Wales article layout
I'd like to get an opinion from as many as possible on some recent changes made without discussion. "Prince of Wales" and "Princess of Wales" have been removed from all the articles and replaced with the name of the UK monarch! See User_talk:GoodDay for the discussion. Deb (talk) 15:43, 14 August 2021 (UTC)


 * Having viewed the layout of the Year in Northern Ireland, the Year in England & the Year in Scotland articles. I noticed that they listed the reigning monarch in their Incumbent section. The prince of Wales is not the monarch of Wales, but rather a title. The British (before-1707, English) monarch reigns over Wales. PS - If Wales has left the UK & decided that (for example) Prince Charles is their reigning monarch? I'd like some sources on that. AFAIK, the Welsh monarchy ended in the late-1200's. GoodDay (talk) 15:49, 14 August 2021 (UTC)


 * PS: I was also planning on adding the legislatures (beginning in 1999) in the Incumbent section of the Year in Wales, Year in Scotland & Year in Northern Ireland articles. Sorry Year in England, you don't have your own devolved legislature. GoodDay (talk) 16:03, 14 August 2021 (UTC)


 * Why should Year in Wales articles copy the Year in England and Year in Scotland formats that came along much later? Deb (talk) 16:44, 14 August 2021 (UTC)


 * And isn't that point about consistency just a bit disingenuous, GoodDay? As far as I can see, it was you who started inserting the name of the monarch on the Northern Ireland pages (e.g. 1999 in Northern Ireland). I can't see any suggestion on the Year in Wales pages that anyone was alleging that the Prince of Wales was the monarch. You're quite right: "Prince of Wales" is purely titular, and the person has no particular connection to Wales. I can see the argument for getting rid of that bit of information altogether, but substituting the name of the monarch serves no useful purpose. --Craigysgafn (talk) 16:51, 14 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Only four edits in 2021 & less in preceding years. Talk about coming out of nowhere GoodDay (talk) 17:04, 14 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Global edit count of 137,399 on 6 projects. You should have checked, Deb (talk) 18:11, 14 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Not an overly big deal. Thus my small print. GoodDay (talk) 18:12, 14 August 2021 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't oppose removing the British monarch from all the Year in constituent country articles, if the exclusion includes the 'prince & princess of Wales'. Those articles are best served with just the 'first minister' & other local political offices in the Incumbent section. GoodDay (talk) 16:55, 14 August 2021 (UTC)
 * That's not really up to you as an individual though, is it? Shouldn't you, out of politeness, notify the people who have been updating these articles for years? Deb (talk) 18:35, 14 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Well, with all due respect to those individuals, they don't own those articles. I would though place an invitation here, at WP:ENGLAND, WP:SCOTLAND & WP:NORTHERN IRELAND, to attend an RFC on this (incumbents) topic. Just haven't figured out yet, where to hold said-RFC. GoodDay (talk) 19:02, 14 August 2021 (UTC)


 * Update - Proper WikiProject found, RFC begun & invitations hounded out to all 'four' WikiProjects-in-question. GoodDay (talk) 19:42, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

Incumbents

 * First Minister – Mark Drakeford
 * Secretary of State for Wales – Simon Hart
 * Archbishop of Wales – John Davies, Bishop of Swansea and Brecon
 * Archdruid of the National Eisteddfod of Wales – Myrddin ap Dafydd
 * National Poet of Wales – Ifor ap Glyn

An example of what I'm posting about. GoodDay (talk) 17:31, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

RFC invitation
In relation to the above discussion, you're welcomed to an RFC at WP:YEARS. -- GoodDay (talk) 19:31, 14 August 2021 (UTC)
 * I don't see a problem with including the Princes (and Princesses) of Wales. They are incumbent postholders, after all, despite their being ceremonial titles. I'm not aware of current Princes or Princesses of Scotland or Northern Ireland, so the comparison with these other countries doesn't make sense. I've no opposition to including the (UK) monarch. Sionk (talk) 21:45, 14 August 2021 (UTC)
 * See aforementioned RFC & give your input there :) GoodDay (talk) 22:05, 14 August 2021 (UTC)


 * BTW, England has the Duke of Cornwall & Scotland has the Duke of Rothesay. GoodDay (talk) 22:07, 14 August 2021 (UTC)
 * The Duke of Cornwall is the same person as the Prince of Wales but has rights only in relation to Cornwall. Please provide the link to the RFC discussion. Deb (talk) 07:10, 15 August 2021 (UTC)
 * I already have, look above, in my 19:31, 14 August post. GoodDay (talk) 07:12, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

RfC on including an image of a child wearing the Welsh Not
Hi all. There's an RfC here on including a CG image to illustrate how the Welsh Not and how it was worn by a child. The image to be included is this one on the right, or a very similar image. Thanks! Cell Danwydd (talk) 11:56, 29 September 2021 (UTC)

Useful links on the Wikiproject page
When I was creating the template Dictionary of Welsh Biography, (for adding citations from the DWB) I found the page WP:WALES/DWB, but it appeared to be an orphaned project page. My suggestion is that on the main page of this Wikiproject there could be a section added which contained links to pages like this, also it could have a list of useful sources (similar to the "Resources for editing" section of Awaken the Dragon) along with links to the relevant templates for citing them. EdwardUK (talk) 19:08, 20 October 2021 (UTC)

Databases for historic sites
I have created a template, Coflein, that can be used for adding citations from the RCAHMW/Coflein website. It is modelled on the Cadw and works in a similar way. On the talk page for the Cadw template I have also described a possible way of making that template work for historic sites other than just listed buildings. I hope editors on Welsh historic sites will find both useful, but if there are issues with these that I have missed then any suggestions for error fixes or other improvements would be helpful. EdwardUK (talk) 23:41, 28 September 2021 (UTC)
 * I have made the changes to the Cadw template - it can now be used for Protected Wrecks, Registered Heritage Landscapes, Scheduled Monuments and World Heritage Sites in addition to Listed Buildings. EdwardUK (talk) 14:16, 22 October 2021 (UTC)

John Cledwyn Hughes (author)
Hi, I have recently had a short article on the Anglo-Welsh author, John Cledwyn Hughes (author), accepted on to Wikipedia. The more experienced editors who were kindly helping me suggested I let you know. I would be particularly interested in anyone who could help strengthen the objectivity and add sources as I am the daughter of the writer and it is clearly much better for others to contribute content! Diolch! Kittyo (talk) 09:45, 26 October 2021 (UTC)

FAR notice
I have nominated Sasha (DJ) for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Hog Farm Talk 17:32, 20 November 2021 (UTC)

Tasks for volunteer
Hello all. I have a Wiki volunteer starting shortly and was looking for the best tasks for her skill set. She is an English Literature and Creative Writing student, keen on using and developing her English language skills and I wondered whether we have a list of Wales-related articles in need of a rewrite or grammar corrections etc? Or any other tasks you might think would be a good fit? Many thanks Jason.nlw (talk) 15:09, 15 November 2021 (UTC)
 * A good place to start is WikiProject_Wales. Also on the project page there is a table of articles listed according to importance and class. There are many top importance articles needing work, depending on how familiar the student is with Wikipedia.  Tony Holkham   (Talk)  15:51, 15 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Fab. Thanks  Tony Holkham . Jason.nlw (talk) 10:00, 23 November 2021 (UTC)

Robert Evans (writer)
This article is in pretty bad shape, WP-wise, and the subject is looking for help at Help_desk. For the interested. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 11:55, 22 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Very poor shape indeed. But it’s also a paid-for piece, which puts it out-of-bounds for me. KJP1 (talk) 13:41, 22 December 2021 (UTC)


 * Looks ripe for AfD to me, at best the subject is claiming notability by association. It's more of an occasional scriptwriter and actor's CV than a Wikipedia article. Sionk (talk) 16:42, 22 December 2021 (UTC)


 * I agree. AfD seems the right route for this. Four distinct SPA throw-away user names at work, including an IP address. Reeks of paid editing. No evidence of notability.  Velella  Velella Talk 18:05, 22 December 2021 (UTC)