Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Wales/Archive 2024

Requested move at Talk:Royal corgis
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Royal corgis that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 13:08, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Holywell Town F.C.
Template:Holywell Town F.C. has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the entry on the Templates for discussion page. EdwardUK (talk) 03:56, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

Good article reassessment for Guto Puw
Guto Puw has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Spinixster  (chat!)  07:23, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

Watchlist
Links to the "recent changes" watchlist for articles related to the wikiproject have been added to the sidebar and the Open tasks section of the project page. EdwardUK (talk) 19:37, 9 January 2024 (UTC)


 * Diolch!  Dank Jae  20:27, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
 * @EdwardUK, hi, just made Deputy Minister for Mental Health and Wellbeing, where do I add it?  Dank Jae  20:00, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
 * I divided the watchlist between four project subpages: Article List, Article Talk List, Other List and Other Talk List ("Other" covers things like categories and templates). The aim is to do full updates from time to time to deal with any changes, though new articles (or those newly tagged by the wikiproject) and their talk pages can be added to the relevant section of these lists. EdwardUK (talk) 20:39, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
 * I assume you mean the Wales versions of those, will do.  Dank Jae  20:46, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Yes - must have cut/pasted the wrong links - have corrected them now EdwardUK (talk) 21:24, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

Missing Welsh Government cabinet posts
Just a notice that I am slowly going through creating the missing Welsh Government cabinet posts. Just published five:
 * Chief Whip (Wales)
 * Minister for the Constitution (Wales)
 * Minister for Rural Affairs (Wales)
 * Minister for North Wales (used to be tagged onto "Minister for the Economy", so felt it should be separate from R.A.)
 * Deputy Minister for Climate Change (merged "Minister for Transport" into this as multiple sources refer to the position as such and doubt a split off is needed).

I assume they're notable as their holders are presumed such per WP:NPOLITICIAN, and well wanted to accompany Minister for the Economy (Wales), Minister for Finance (Wales) and Minister for Local Government (Wales). If not notable, open to a list of Welsh Ministers article or something.

Just raising this because I do not know the history of these positions enough and there are a few gaps in the continuity of these posts as I struggled to find sources for exact dates of previous office-holders, so there are a few gaps on the older positions. Plus as not fully knowledgeable of government, I may have made a little mistake here and there, so any corrections would be welcomed.

Yes I am aware, the upcoming new first minister may reshuffle it all again, but I started this before the announcement was made. :/

Blwyddyn Newydd Dda.  Dank Jae  17:20, 2 January 2024 (UTC)


 * Done all of them, if I missed anything please check!  Dank Jae  02:50, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

Devolution related pages need an update
Proposed further Welsh devolution and Proposed Welsh justice system require an update following recent events and debate which has been covered in the news.

Welsh independence also needs an update following recent news (the neutrality banner has been there for months and I'm not sure why either). Unionism in Wales could perhaps be updated in the same manner.

I've added some pointers to the talk pages of those first three pages.

Thanks Titus Gold (talk) 03:11, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

Cadwaladr and the Welsh Dragon
Note this video stating that the claims the Welsh Dragon being linked to Cadwaladr were a mistake. It minimally mentions such link being present on Wikipedia, although critiques the sources’ sources instead. There may be edits based on this video on articles relating to the dragon, national flag, Cadwaladr, the Tudors and others. Just a heads up should edits based on this already be done or if an editor wishes to accept the video’s argument or actively reject it.  Dank Jae  22:33, 26 November 2023 (UTC)


 * The Cadwaladr article was already fine. Information that contradicted Cadwaladr was added to Flag of Wales and Welsh Dragon sourced to an MA in Creative Writing that I had already taken issue with before. No prizes as to who added it, and perhaps why (do I detect some POV in the sidelining of Henry VII?) Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 09:24, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I think the video is mostly fair but seems to make some wrong assumptions about what a source was pointing to. Even the video creator admits to the wrong use of Cadwaldr and the dragon and having done months of research to reach that conclusion. I'm glad it's been assessed. Multiple reliable sources acknowledged the connection between Henry VII and the Red Dragon of Cadwaladr, but no citing of the original source it seems. The MA source I think was just acknowledging the association that Henry VII made rather than Cadwaladr actually using it.
 * For such ancient history, I think it's wise to avoid any news articles! Thanks for addressing this. Titus Gold (talk) 03:54, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Funnily enough, I recently realised the lack of evidence whilst editing the Welsh language equivalent. "Gwarchan Maelderw" (poem) seems to be one of the earlier mentions of a red dragon. Titus Gold (talk) 04:02, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Doesn't look like a reliable source to me. Deb (talk) 18:49, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

Good article reassessment for Rhondda
Rhondda has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 22:33, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Mass implementation of Welsh place-names on other Wikipedias
While the inner workings of other Wikipedias are not impactful on this Wikipedia, as each one operates separately. Just want to raise that after noticing excessive changes at Wikidata, such as removing "Bala Lake" for Llyn Tegid, seems one editor is mass-replacing derivatives of the currently used English names with the ("official", in a few cases) Welsh ones at various other (up to 32 ish) Wikipedias. Which depending on the Wikipedia may go against rules they may have in place, similar to what we have as WP:COMMONNAME here. Once again, while we shouldn't try and influence the consensus at other Wikipedias, considering the editor has had issues here, I could not overlook it and seems unlikely an active contributor in most of these 32 other language Wikis aside in place-names.

Nonetheless, just raising this should any discussions be started on English Wikipedia and an argument along the lines of is used, which is obviously not enough alone regardless, but providing more context should it be used.

While sympathetic to using Welsh names, including that of Llyn Tegid (I have a personal project on it), one editor changing to Welsh place-names in 32 languages seems questionably good faith, let alone fluent or with local consensus. If any of you have connections to other (aside cy) Wikipedias to either take action, start discussions there, or recognise these edits are acceptable, then please do.

Apologies if this isn't the correct place, but have no idea where.  Dank Jae  18:21, 19 November 2023 (UTC)


 * Good to see TG honouring the spirit of their T-ban, and keeping their rampant POV in check. KJP1 (talk) 18:49, 19 November 2023 (UTC)


 * I expect it has something to do with the recent decision by the local national park to only use the Welsh language names of lakes in their juristiction. I don't have any knowledge of the rules that govern articles in other language Wikipedias - but unlike the English language Wikipedia, I doubt they need to have a preference for English language titles for their articles. Sionk (talk) 21:04, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
 * So far, quickly checking es and fr, they seem to have something like commonname. de is a bit more complex stating "in the national language" from translation, but then goes to basically commonname if not the case. it states "official" names can be used if only there is no pre-existing italian version or italian use of the English one. Nonetheless, not saying every change is wrong, but doing it suddenly in 32 languages seems that such policies were not considered and was agenda-based. Some of them at fr, seem to be reverted, and was even banned from one wiki. Just raising it nonetheless.
 * Plus these changes are also impacting Wikidata, so corrections need to be there. Seem also not to be limited to lakes, with
 * Snowdonia Eryri,
 * St Asaph Llanelwy, (so far not moved the articles yet )
 * Bull Bay Porth Llechog,
 * Red Wharf Bay Traeth Coch,
 * Tanygrisiau Reservoir Llyn Tanygrisiau, also spotted, with all the (former) names in English removed entirely, not even an alias, meaning such data items cannot even be found with the old name under search. May raise it at Wikidata? no idea tho.  Dank  Jae  22:34, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
 * As KJP1 suggested, it doesn't bode well for any chance of having a Wikipedia topic ban reviewed, especially with the questionable name changes in Wikipedia article-space. Wikidata problems will have to be raised on Wikidata. Sionk (talk) 00:34, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Already raised at Wikidata.  Dank Jae  11:39, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes used Welsh names except for "British English" where I left as is. I agree official "British English" should be left as is on wikidata. Would prefer coming to me directly if I've made any mistakes so that I can immediately correct. Apologies Titus Gold (talk) 21:15, 25 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Removing all the "English names" under "English" and all other languages seemed very intentional, leaving a newly added sole "British English" for the actual Common name. I explained my reasoning there on both the issue and why I chose the location of the discussion.  Dank Jae  01:52, 26 November 2023 (UTC)
 * - Your call for a direct dialogue would have more credibility, if you had attempted to discuss this major change before implementing it. But that would run counter to your modus operandi of seeking to get Facts on the ground in support of your view. What was the reason you didn't discuss this, here or on the other wikis, before implementing it? And do you think it is compliant with the spirit of your Welsh-topics T-Ban on en:Wiki? And what is the purpose of the change? KJP1 (talk) 05:38, 26 November 2023 (UTC)
 * That's fair enough. It was intended to apply a consistent label pattern used for all non-"British English" labels as there didn't seem to be consistency or guidance for these labels. I also hadn't considered that common name policy might actually apply for non-British English or Welsh labels. In hindsight, I agree I should've discussed before implementing this on some pages. I will do this from now on wikidata in the same way that I've been doing in past few months in particular for Wikipedia. Hope that explains it. Titus Gold (talk) 13:14, 26 November 2023 (UTC)
 * It doesn’t explain it at all. What you mean is: “Having got my own way, I’m content to promise collaboration in future”. But you’ve made, and broken, that promise many times. What would have some credibility, would be if you self-reverted your changes, and then came back here to discuss what you planned to do and why. Are you prepared to do that? KJP1 (talk) 13:27, 26 November 2023 (UTC)
 * They're back at it again for Devil's Appendix on other Wikis, see Wikidata.  Dank Jae  20:49, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Quelle surprise. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:10, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
 * - Personally, I think this needs to go back to ANI. The terms of the topic ban are:
 * "There is a near-unanimous consensus here to topic-ban Titus Gold from articles relating to Wales, broadly construed. A six-month wait before any appeal is recommended. There isn't a consensus for any additional topic bans or other restrictions at this time, but the community's patience is clearly wearing thin, and Titus Gold should be aware that problematic behavior in other areas will likely lead to further sanctions. (As written, the topic ban applies only in mainspace, but, again, disruption elsewhere will probably result in a swift expansion of the restriction" (my bold).
 * To me, this is a second clear breach of the spirit, if not the letter, of the ban. It's also a clear breach of their commitment given above: "I should've discussed before implementing this on some pages. I will do this from now on wikidata". In short they simply cannot be trusted not to continue to push their POV. I'll flag it shortly, unless anyone else wants to pick it up (please!). I've pinged TG so they are aware, although they watch this page. KJP1 (talk) 00:25, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Topic bans are specific to English Wikipedia. Wasn't this a change to Wikidata only? If so, there is no breach of the topic ban and TG is perfectly entitled to make those edits. Having said that, the nature of the edits would be material in any appeal to the topic ban. It is exactly the type of POV editing that raised the concerns before. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 08:46, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Absolutely take the point, and I think your reading of the ban scope is entirely right. What I was wondering was whether the "problematic behaviour in other areas" clause would cover it. But quite happy to be told I'm wrong on that point. What is so frustrating, aside from the continued POV editing, is TG's bad faith. On 26/11/23 (above), they promised to discuss before implementing any more such changes. So where was the discussion before this latest change? KJP1 (talk) 09:48, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
 * To be honest, I am not sure what the process is for taking this up at Wikidata. Wouldn't it have to be raised with admins there? But I get the frustrations. TG has always been civil, but again and again the same things recur. There may be reasons for that. I know nothing about TG the person, and I am aware that there are reasons why past commitments can be forgotten without it necessarily demonstrating bad faith; but whatever the reasons, the effect is disruptive. TG needs to be aware that the community is repeatedly asking for more discussion, and if this is not forthcoming then referrals to whichever admin board is appropriate will follow. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 10:09, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
 * This is technically not about Wikidata itself. Whenever you move a page on any Wiki including this one you also edit Wikidata. The edits at Wikidata are a result of their page moves on Norwegian Nynorsk and Cebuano Wikipedia. Which I don’t think they’re fluent in, nor considered what that language actually uses, and are only there to POV push Welsh names.
 * Not calling for anything specifically, nor do I think I can, just raising the issue again, as it seems that this issue isn’t solved, so expect them to do more, and appears that nothing has changed in their editing since the T-ban both on this Wiki (moved to other Celtic countries) and slowing spreading to other Wikipedias.  Dank Jae  11:27, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
 * OK, in the interests of starting the discussion suggested above; - could you:


 * Briefly outline the place name changes you have been making on foreign-language Wikis and your intended rationale;
 * Briefly outline the steps you've taken to understand the policy/guidance prevailing on those foreign-language wikis on place naming, e.g. their equivalent of COMMONNAME;
 * Briefly outline the steps you've taken, with diffs, to obtain consensus on the foreign-language wikis for the changes you've made;
 * To help get a sense of scale, give details of:
 * (a) the number/names of the foreign-language wikis where you have made changes;
 * (b) the number of place name changes you have made on each foreign-language wiki.

Thank you. KJP1 (talk) 17:12, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Undertake not to make further changes until this discussion is concluded.


 * As other users have stated, I was sure not to edit anything within the scope of the ban. As far as I can see, since the 20th November, Nant Clogwyn y Geifr is the only one I changed in other languages. (Also just created a handful of pages on the Welsh language Wici on small places that mostly didn't exist in other languages.) Some of reasons behind the two page moves was that there is no automatic preference for any English place names in Wales in any other language; the national park has announced it is moving to official names in the original Welsh only for waterfalls; common name doesn't seem to apply because I couldn't find any info on Nant Clogwyn y Geifr in those languages.
 * I thought bold moves were permitted on other language Wikis? So I'm now meant to start discussions before page moves? (Obviously I would know this is more often needed on English Wiki because there might Welgh lang/English lang contenders for any name changes)
 * What must I now do to have the topic ban lifted? Could I have very clear and defined criteria please (I think ambiguity on this may have been one of the contributors to the ban in the first place.)?
 * Thanks for your time. I'm happy to conform to any recommendations for now and future. Titus Gold (talk) 17:39, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
 * - can you give details of all changes, including those before 20/11/2023. KJP1 (talk) 19:39, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
 * After double-checking it's only those two moves for a place name (in a language other than Welsh) since November 2023.
 * (Since 2016, May 2020 I've counted (roughly 10 pages with roughly an average of 5 different language moves for the same page) so total of 50 page moved over that period.
 * Some of the reasoning I used in the past was:
 * Other languages tend to always use whatever the English Wikipedia uses as a page name without even considering the Welsh name simply because it was what English wiki uses (and perhaps being completely unware of there being two names for some places in Wales)
 * Welsh Wici is virtually never used for the template for name of places in other languages and I was concerned that this tendency of only using English placenames for Wales across all other language Wikis regardless of any other factors.
 * Common name does not seem to apply to the virtually all of these names since there seems to be virtually no reference to these place names in other languages (exception mentioned below).
 * Officially and legally in Wales, the Welsh name comes first, followed by the English name if there is one; so my thinking was that if a page was not in English, then perhaps it would be appropriate to default to Welsh more often if there was no common name factor.
 * For some there was added reason that the Welsh name only was official, e.g some lakes in Eryri/Snowdonia.
 * One name that I had perhaps had not considered properly for common name was Mont Snowdon in French. Consequently, this were reversed anyway and remain the reversed name (some were other reverts as well I think). Obviously France is geographically closer to Wales and and after some digging I found one or two articles using "Mont Snowdon"; so in hindsight, I had overlooked common name for that.
 * Titus Gold (talk) 20:54, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

Merge proposal
A proposal to reverse an undiscussed split at Talk:List of Nuttall mountains in England and Wales. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 18:57, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

Welsh named pages
A discussion last year was about the renaming of Talk:Lôn Goed. Today I searched for Arthur's table, but realised it was actually listed as Bwrdd Arthur. Perhaps more Welsh named articles should be redirected into English? Starting with the Iron Age Arthur settlement on Anglesey, should we change Bwrdd to Table for the search engine? Cltjames (talk) 01:42, 7 February 2024 (UTC)


 * @Cltjames, if you believe it meets WP:RPURPOSE be free to make it, however IMO probably not, at least as a redirect (maybe a DAB). Although IMO, translations are a bit tougher to justify, especially in vaguer cases like making Big beach for Traeth Mawr. If Arthur's table is used by sources as an alternative name for Bwrdd Arthur then yes a redirect could be made, but if it isn't (incl. as just a translation) then it indicates the subject is more commonly referred to by its Welsh name. Plus there can be multiple translations, or the translation be very generic or vague possibly referring to other articles too, so in this case other tables? I believe such one could be confused for King Arthur's Round Table. If Bwrdd Arthur is commonly described as just "Arthur's table" in multiple sources and no other article is referred to that either, then it possibly be more justified, but this case probably not as a redirect, at least that's my initial opinion.  Dank Jae  03:40, 7 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Bwrdd Arthur seems like a good option for the article name as the alternatives each have minor variations: A Topographical Dictionary of Wales describes it as 'The fortress of Din Sylwy, otherwise called Bwrdd Arthur, or "Arthur's round table"', the RCAHMW list of historic place names records it a 'Bwrdd Arthur or Dinas Sylwy' and Smith, G., 2008, Iron Age Settlements in Wales has 'Din Silwy has an alternative name of Bwrdd Arthur – (King) Arthur's Table'. EdwardUK (talk) 04:46, 7 February 2024 (UTC)
 * @EdwardUK? @Cltjames, is arguing whether Arthur's table should be made a redirect, the article is already called Bwrdd Arthur?  Dank Jae  04:53, 7 February 2024 (UTC) Edit: "redirected" gave me the wrong impression.  Dank  Jae  04:56, 7 February 2024 (UTC)
 * On second thought, @Cltjames, by "redirected" do you mean "moving"? If so then no, per WP:USEENGLISH, Bwrdd Arthur is likely used more.  Dank Jae  04:55, 7 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Well, Din Silwy could work. Only I'm approaching the issue of Welsh placenames on the English Wikipedia here. Cltjames (talk) 05:09, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

Newport: City vs County Borough
Hi, there currently is a discussion and a dispute over whether District of Newport should be converted into about the Newport county borough (principal area) with Newport, Wales reduced to only the city. This discussion can be found at Talk:Newport, Wales. Thanks!  Dank Jae  11:18, 7 February 2024 (UTC)
 * It might be worth looking at if Swansea and Cardiff should also be split but unlike Newport both Swansea and Cardiff had boundary changes in 1996, see User:Crouch, Swale/Welsh districts, District of Swansea was merged with parts of Lliw Valley and District of Cardiff was merged with Pentyrch from Taff-Ely while Newport like Merthyr Tydfil had no changes so should be dealt with in 1 article. In terms of Swansea the Welsh Wikipedia article is ta cy:Abertawe (sir) and the German one is at de:City and County of Swansea and with Cardiff the German Wikipedia article is at de:City and County of Cardiff.  Crouch, Swale  ( talk ) 17:04, 7 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Nonetheless any splits of the long standing status quo have to be formally proposed, as any such change could vastly overhaul any such articles. Overall I am on the fence over such splits, I have found it odd, especially for Swansea where Gower is basically grouped as part of the city, however it may be hard to detangle the two, and they are styled as "City and County" together with their city status making the two more blurred, compared to Merthyr Tydfil where there is clearly still a "County Borough" represented, but can see an argument for a merge of Merthyr Tydfil and its county borough, but reluctantly.
 * But I do believe there is a stronger argument to actually merge those former district articles where there were minimal boundary changes with the main articles discussing the modern principal areas. But this ofc applies more to Newport and Cardiff, than Swansea. Pointing to a user page doesn't really say much, I did add the changes to Principal areas of Wales.
 * In terms of names it will be complicated "City and County of Swansea/Cardiff" can still give the impression it is also on the city, so the only contender may have to be "Swansea (county)" and "Cardiff (county)". Nonetheless any proposal should be discussed first as it will be a massive change, and not exactly convinced the worth of it, especially as England constantly shifts left and right when separate articles should or shouldn't exist, and plus more reasoning is needed than "because England" as referred to at Newport.
 * But once again, if it is formally and clearly proposed as a full split, a consensus for/against can appear.  Dank Jae  17:44, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

FA review: Edward I
I have nominated Edward I of England for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets the featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" in regards to the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Jim Killock (talk) 21:30, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

Welsh Wikipedians' notice board
What is the purpose of this? Just asking, but best if some of the stuff there were merged or linked to from here? Not calling for mass redirecting, as links to the archives need to be maintained somehow. May be it merged/reconfigured with a WikiProject sub-page?

P.S. I may start some new local guideline (mainly geo-naming policy) discussions soon, I'll go slow, in case I overwhelm anyone.  Dank Jae  01:38, 15 January 2024 (UTC)


 * I’ve honestly no idea. I don’t think I knew it existed. I’d agree that it seems to duplicate the aim/objectives of this page. I see User:Deb was a contributor and they may have a better understanding than I as to its history/purpose. KJP1 (talk) 05:18, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
 * No objection. I think it may have existed before the WikiProject was created but I'm not going to spend hours checking. Deb (talk) 09:11, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
 * I think if it could remain accessible through a link, for historical purposes if nothing else, then it would be best merged. Though I see we've still not got an article on Plas Glyn y Weddw, which definitely warrants one. KJP1 (talk) 09:31, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
 * The noticeboard could be tagged as superseded (WP: HISPAGES) and the wikiproject marked as its successor. There is probably not much to merge as most of the content has not been updated for several years. The section on web-based resources may be a good addition to the wikiproject page (there is also something similar on the Awaken the Dragon page), but the links would need to be checked and updated. EdwardUK (talk) 15:43, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Will try, slowly merge stuff, may move the out-dated stuff which wouldn't be helpful to merge, to an archival sub-page or something?  Dank Jae  23:05, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

Just seen someone use the old notice board's "Articles where your opinion is sought" section, should I move these under a WikiProject Wales/Articles needing attention page? or just put on the main page? Essentially a manual Article Alerts? Or should it just be recommended anything be made a talk section here? Also Dydd Gŵyl Dewi Hapus  Dank Jae  09:52, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

Brecon Beacons split
There is a discussion at Talk:Brecon Beacons that may be of interest to participants of this project. All opinions are valued, including any opposition or support to the proposed split. Diolch  Dank Jae  11:52, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

UK county flags discussion
A discussion has been opened at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject UK geography concerning the UK county flags, which you are welcome to participate in. Thanks, A.D.Hope (talk) 11:19, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

Wales WRU Executive Board
I saw what was doing with the Welsh government roles, and after doing some work on articles related to some members of the executive board of the Wales Rugby Union, I saw there is a gap relating to the separate roles of the WRU, e.g. sporting directors, head of rugby etc, such as the role of Nigel Walker (athlete), or the work Ryan Jones until 2020. Any ideas on approaching a new article relating to the structure of Wales' rugby board? Cltjames (talk) 00:21, 21 March 2024 (UTC)


 * I wouldn't know where to start, so I'll just ask a question - are these roles that might change their titles frequently over time, or are they very well-established? Deb (talk) 09:16, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
 * OK, you raised a good question. After doing some research it seems the positions have changed name slightly over the past decade or so, but now there is some stability in the Chairman, CEO, member of the Professional Rugby Board (PRB). Here are some links about appointments on the WRU website, WRU board and Executive board. Perhaps these pages explain the set up now, but is right, for how long are the exact names of the roles allocated for...? But I think the Executive Board set up is well enough explained to elaborate in an article. Cltjames (talk) 14:04, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
 * I'd have no problem with that, though I'm unlikely to be able to be of much assistance. Deb (talk) 14:24, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
 * After inspecting most of the other top tier playing rugby nations for comparison, it seems only Wales has a president list. Then, New Zealand Rugby and Rugby Australia are the only other articles that have included any mention of an executive list of board members. Rugby Australia has a potentially good article in creating a central hub for all rugby purposes, whilst New Zealand rugby have created a good Patron and Officers section with a table showing the personnel. Any ideas on what Wales' WRU could do better explain the corporate set up. I feel Welsh Rugby Union article is similar to the Australian and All Black articles I linked in showing the set up. But, there is a lot more that could be done for the Welsh article to better show the corporate structure for regions and women's game, as well as then the executive board set up, then also perhaps a table similar to the New Zealand article? Cltjames (talk) 15:18, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Probabaly best expanding/creating "governance" at the Welsh Rugby Union article (combining the principals list?), and if the tables or other things from the AU or NZ articles can improve it then be free to base an expansion on those articles as a guide, and better to try to see if it works. Not into rugby, but be free to raise it on the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Rugby union, unless someone into Welsh rugby also replies here.  Dank Jae  12:45, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Ok thanks, feel free to join the debate I started on the Project Rugby Union page. Cltjames (talk) 13:46, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

Community locator maps
Hi all, over the past month I have since created a svg map of every (I think) local government community in Wales listed under Commons Category:Locator maps of communities in Wales. With progress tracked at its talk.

I may slowly add them all to articles here (plus Wikidata), although help adding them would be appreciated, if anyone is interested. , sorry to duplicate some of your great maps, which I adopted its orange scheme.

I have created all maps from the 2010 Nilfanion's files, then manually updated those that (appear to) have changed since, with 2024 versions. If they have changed, "2010" and "2024" were added to the beginning of the file's names. ''I am confused if Torfaen and Vale had boundary changes?? They appear very minor.''

The names for the communities in the 2010 files were derived from Nilfanion's 2010 files, and the 2024 names were the ones from Ordnance Survey, they may not automatically match the names of articles here, and hopefully have no typos. Although I removed full stops and apotrophes from "St. David's" etc, so "St Davids" (I think).

Please raise any mistakes/typos I have made. Diolch  Dank Jae  15:32, 27 March 2024 (UTC)


 * Looks like a lot of work, you've made a rod for your own back :) Glad you followed through consistently with the orange (as opposed to the red for electoral wards) ...which I'm pretty sure I copied from some pre-existing maps when I created some new community locator maps following previous boundary changes. I'm unaware of a boundary review this year, so in my opinion it would have made more sense to name the files after the year of the boundary changes - there seems to have been a widespread review in 2016, for example. Quite a number of communities in Wales are very small and I expect they'll hardly be visible at the size of a map in a article infobox (particularly with Powys) - I'm not a fan of Nilfanion's base maps (there's a lot of wasted space on some of them) and cropped my versions as much as possible to maximise the visibility of the communities. But hey-ho, have fun. Sionk (talk) 19:36, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Only named them 2024 because they're up to date as of now, a few counties had multiple reviews since 2010 so would've had to make multiple versions, which is not as needed as many just need a up to date map first, and rarely see the reviews discussed for any needed intermediate maps. Understand any issues with Nilfanion's spacing, but only used those for consistency, style and ease, and still learning how to convert the OS data to map form. Yes Powys' are a bit large.
 * In the end, just want all of them to at least have a map, so focused on making them as quick and consistently as possible. Any new round of new versions will at least be much more slower, and smaller volume, allowing more time for any tweaks. Although I wish there were an easier and quicker way to batch upload to commons, as tbh that is where most of my time was spent.
 * Also I think I also saw green used for electoral wards? So seems to be a clash. Nonetheless, as per UKGEO, they're discussing whether wards are presumed notable themselves (discussion leaning to they aren't), so probably not worth the effort, in making every individual ward maps IMO for now (except Wrexham, because I already made them years ago :/), maybe county-wide ones, with labels and/or results. We'll see.  Dank Jae  21:28, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Definitely communities are the priority, we can all agree on that. Sionk (talk) 22:31, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
 * I am wondering how should I add them. Currently trying Anglesey, and for example at Holyhead added it in the second image parameter in the infobox UK place, but now it has basically two maps. Prefer a switcher between the two, displaying only one at a time, but that seems not workable. For many of these the "community" is as important so would prefer if it were in the infobox, but it seems I'll have to move it to the body of the article? Comments?  Dank Jae  12:45, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

Monmouthshire
I've been doing a bit on the Monmouthshire article, taking the GA-assessed Pembrokeshire, Carmarthenshire, and Ceredigion as models. It still needs expansion (particularly the History/Geology) and a fair amount of polishing. But I'd be grateful for any thoughts on obvious gaps. Are there elements/features of the county that should be included, but currently aren't. I'd also be interested in any thoughts on the infobox image. Currently, it's got one, as have Pembrokeshire etc. But some of the English counties, e.g. Somerset, Gloucestershire, have rather nice multiple images. What would one choose, if trying to represent the county in 3 -5 pictures? KJP1 (talk) 12:18, 12 April 2024 (UTC)


 * @KJP1 If you mean the main infobox image at Somerset etc, then I guess the discussion before, leading to WP:WLSCOUNTYCOLLAGE, applies, based on England's version. So usually 3 images. As done for Anglesey, Denbighshire and I did for Torfaen, and slowly doing the rest, leaving the GAs for last, aiming for a discussion for those. I did mention this at Talk:Monmouthshire, so happy to give my ideas, and encourage anyone else to give their's too.
 * In terms of the general article, will look if I notice anything missing or if I can help.  Dank Jae  12:47, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
 * - much appreciated. I'm pretty clueless as to the MoS on this, and on much else, so very happy to go with a convention of 3. So, how to sum up Monmouthshire in 3 shots? The usual internet searches give you Tintern Abbey, Chepstow Castle and Raglan Castle as the "top 3 attractions" but that'd give a very medieval-buildings focus to the IB! I'd be most grateful for any suggestions. And thanks for casting your eye over the wider article. Hope you're keeping well. KJP1 (talk) 12:51, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
 * It’s simply a project guideline, someone was adding 7 images on the northern counties, and there was once 15 added to Merseyside, which is clearly too many so called a discussion to set a number and most preferred similarity with England’s.
 * In terms of the actual images, in the end that’s fully subjective. You can be free to decide your own or prompt a discussion for a longer-standing selection.
 * When I decide them, I usually base them on four criteria, geographic representation, image quality/looks, defining feature of the county (is the county known for a World Heritage Site, for being coastal etc) and fitting in the infobox (usually requiring one vertical for it to fit). Some in England also use a cultural aspect for example a notable breed of animal.  Dank Jae  14:39, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
 * That's very helpful. I have gone through many of the Monmouthshire pages running the "Good images" search, but there is so much mis-categorisation, it's easy to miss things. I think my personal preferences would be for one of Tintern, Chepstow or Raglan; then one panorama- probably from the Kymin, although I can't find any good ones; and you could as well argue for the Sugarloaf or the Skirrid - although they don't have any Good images either; and then something else. But what I'm not sure. KJP1 (talk) 14:50, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Yeah constantly scrolling through the most obscure commons categories (usually every community), then popping onto Flickr, Geograph and Google Images with Creative Commons, looking for them, is tiring.
 * Maybe try a mock up of them, sometimes I like a selection of places but when put together the images clash so sometimes still have to make adjustments.  Dank Jae  15:46, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:English_Maelor
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:English_Maelor that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Natg 19 (talk) 23:00, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Afon Tanat
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Afon Tanat that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject.  Dank Jae  21:34, 19 April 2024 (UTC)