Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Webcomics/Archive 2

What happened to Acid reflux?
Its marked as getting a Keep for its AfD but its no longer in the wiki. &mdash;preceding unsigned comment by Dformosa (talk • contribs)
 * Nothing happened: Acid Reflux (webcomic). - brenneman (t) (c)  05:38, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Oh I've seen what happened, its been moved from Acid Reflux to Acid Reflux (webcomic) I've fixed the page to reflect this. Dformosa 06:20, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Concurrent versions
While looking through Category:web comics I noticed that there are 2 nearly identical versions of the same artitle: Soap On A Rope and Soap on a Rope. One should be merged/redirected into the other, I'll leave that up to someone who knows about the strip. ~ Dread Lord C y b e r S k u l l ✎☠ 04:25, 2005 August 4 (UTC)
 * Fixed! Since they were identical, I just redirected Soap On A Rope to Soap on a Rope.--DNicholls 04:47, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

New Link Format
In my opinion, all the "wcl" links that were just added make the list harder to read less visually appealing. I think that perhaps this outweighs the benefits of the "Talk Links Edit artitle website" features.

- Matthew0028 02:31, 10 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Talk/Links/Edit are just one click away from the article anyway. Bo Lindbergh 12:57, August 10, 2005 (UTC)

ArticleStructure
Should we attempt to come up with a page structure that can be used as a model for each webcomic article? Like, mention different sections that should be included, and order they should appear, etc. Obviously, not every article will fit the mold 100%, but it would probably be a good guideline. Comments? Matthew0028 05:45, 14 August 2005 (UTC)


 * Yes, this a good idea. I've been looking at some of the currently stubbed articles and it's hard to know where to start. A consistent structure would help. I'd think sections on the following would be a good start: Brief History (of the comic)Plot, Characters, Art and Writing Style, Anything else? Dragonfiend 21:31, 15 August 2005 (UTC)


 * I think a good place to start would be by looking at what sections are currently used (and useful). Checking the more detailed and better articles for examples would be a good idea (which I will be doing shortly).Matthew0028 03:50, 16 August 2005 (UTC)


 * Possible topics taken from existing articles: For comics with a setting detailed enough to warrant it, a discussion of the setting could be useful. Availability (online, in print, etc.), Criticism & Praise, The Site (and/or fan community). Matthew0028 04:02, 16 August 2005 (UTC)


 * I am using the structure we've suggested to try to get the Narbonic entry in shape. If anyone (especially you, Matthew) wants to help organize the Narbonic entry that would be great. Then we can use the final organized format for Narbonic as the guide for others. Dragonfiend 18:15, 17 August 2005 (UTC)


 * Likewise, I've used a similar structure when I added a lot of content to the Bob and George entry, so it's probably similar to what we want to end up with. Comments and modifications, either on the article or more importantly on the structure (and whether it is something we should adapt overall), would be useful.

Side Projects
I'm not sure where the notability line is drawn on webcomics sideprojects. My feeling is that a side project shouldn't have its own entry unless the sideproject itself is notable. Instead, the side project ought to be briefly dealt with within the article on the original notable webcomic. Below is an older discussion that was taking place on the project page that should've been here in discussion. Dragonfiend 02:01, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Built for Comfort:
 * This article was formerly a stub, probably created because of the connection it has to the comic No 4th Wall to Break. I expanded this article so it is no longer a stub. Previously listed as nonnotable by another user but is a project of the co-author of No 4th Wall to Break and so article was created to compliment other project (similar to Jeph Jacques' Indie Tits) - Tedzsee
 * I'm not very familar with either of them, but neither of these side projects appear to be notable enough for their own entry. Dragonfiend
 * No 4th Wall is a member of the well-known Day-Free Press webcomic group. IndieTits already had a vote for deletion that ended in a keep vote.  With that as a precident, I wrote the article for another side-project of a similar DayFree press comic. Hope that makes sense as a rationale.Tedzsee

Article not updating?
I've checked out a few of the entries in the article and several contained out of date information. This does not seem to bode well for this enterprise. (Yeah, pretentious, I know, but it sounds good.) Seriously, how about someone going through and updating them? Lee M 02:39, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Not sure if you're saying this project page needs updating or whether you're saying the articles that the project page links to need updating. Both are true. It's also true that practically every wikipedia article needs updating. I, too, wish there were more active people working on this project, but the best suggestion I would have for you is to just continue to update articles yourself as needed. Dragonfiend 18:19, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
 * I was referring specifically to entries on the project page not being updated in line with the linked articles - see for instance the entries for Count Your Sheep and Perry Bible Fellowship where I've now struck through the obsolete info. Of course I'll continue to do so if I catch others, but as you say it would be nice if there were enough people to catch the ones I missed. Lee M 23:18, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

"kick ass" articles discussion
Do we want to have some sort of discussion about before a given article should make it to the Articles that kick ass section? I know it's not completely necessary, but it could be helpful. First, keep marginal entries that could benefit from being in a lower section (i.e. "please work on me") out, and also help decide what still needs to be done, which would probably lead to it being doneJ. Just a suggestion. Comments? - Matthew0028 03:51, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

Deletion list
Hi folks,

I just wanted to let you know about a list of comics- and animation- related Votes for deletion. Not all of the items on the list are webcomics, of course, but a few webcomics turn up almost every day. Anyway, the list is maintained by WikiProject Deletion sorting, and you can find it here.

Please use the list to track and contribute to webcomic-related debates. If you use the list, please also help keep it up to date. Thanks!

Cheers,

-- Visviva 04:13, 18 August 2005 (UTC)


 * Personally my own experience with webcomic VfDing left a sour taste in my mouth, and a potential bias toward inclusion. Lee M 23:26, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

Linking author names
I am of the opinion that all webcomic articles should have the author's name wikilinked. What are the project's guidelines on this? Dread Lord C y b e r S k u l l ✎☠ 12:25, 2005 September 2 (UTC)
 * I'm strongly opposed. If a webcomic is notable, but its author has done nothing else that is notable, then any personal information about them should go in the webcomic article. If we have them wikilinked, we'll get a lot of useless articles that say, "John Smith is the author of Webcomic.  This article is a stub." DenisMoskowitz 15:58, 2005 September 2 (UTC)


 * Bad idea. Very few webcomic authors are notable for anything other than drawing the webcomic.  Most of them are still in college -- most webcomic author articles will be similar enough that we can use a template to create them:
 *  is the author of the webcomic . He was born in,  in , and is currently attending.


 * --Carnildo 20:23, 2 September 2005 (UTC)
 * --Carnildo 20:23, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

Can a skeptic join?
Can I join if I'm a fan of webcomics, and want to improve articles on notable ones, but am a skeptic of your mission as currently stated? -- SCZenz 22:51, 29 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Yes. Dread Lord C y b e r S k u l l ✎☠ 06:30, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

A heads up
Would interested Wikicomicians keep an eye on the targets of the message posted at WP:ANI? -Splash talk 14:06, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

Author stub
I'm not sure what the author stub category should be for webcomic-author-stub. The stub currently links to Category:Webcomics authors stubs, but I think that it may be named wrong, which is why I haven't instantiated it yet. If someone could correct this, I would appreciate it. ~ Dread Lord C y b e r S k u l l ✎☠ 01:28, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

© templates
I've started making copyright templates for webcomic media. The first one I made is webcomicpanel, based off of comicpanel. Thoughts? Dread Lord C y b e r S k u l l ✎☠ 12:26, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I think we may not need these copyright templates. Webcomic artists tend to be more approachable than other comic artists, so it should be pretty easy to get a single strip or a cast sketch released under a free license. --Carnildo 18:28, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

genre categories
I've created some genre categories for webcomics. Please tag articles appropriately and add any missing genres. Dread Lord C y b e r S k u l l ✎☠ 10:57, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Category:Anime and manga webcomics
 * Category:Comedy webcomics
 * Category:Drama webcomics
 * Category:Fantasy webcomics
 * Category:LGBT webcomics
 * Category:Political webcomics
 * Category:Science fiction webcomics
 * Category:Video game webcomics
 * Category:Webcomic webcomics
 * This looks like a good idea, but I'm not sure just how feasible it is -- maybe you can explain how you see it being used. Some questions/issues.


 * 1) Do you think there's a limit to how many genres a single comic should be categorized as? As per genre, "In general there are three types of genre: Those of setting, such as westerns or science fiction; Those of mood, such as comedy or horror; Those of format, such as musicals or non-fiction. In artforms such as music, painting, and sculpture, genre tends to be determined by format and [a 4th type of genre] style." Already your list has genres of style (Manga), genres of subject matter (LGBT, political, etc.), genres of setting (science fiction, fantasy), and genres of mood (comedy, drama). We could also add genres of format such as full page, strip, single panel, and infinite canvas. It would seem then that every comic would have 4 genres or more. Going by style/format/seting/mood, Narbonic is a cartoon/comic strip/science fiction/comedy. Mega Tokyo is a manga/full page/video game/comedy. 8-Bit Theater is a sprite/comic strip/video game an/or fantasy/comedy.
 * 2) I added your list of genres to a "See also" portion of Webcomic genres, where I see very specific genres like "absurdist fiction" and "dark comedy." Do we want to break comedy up that finely? Absurdist comedy, dark comedy, light-hearted comedy, slapstick, etc.? It seems like at some point we'll cross the line into original research (which I think that Webcomic genres article probably already has).
 * 3) We probably ought to make sure that the webcomics info boxes use these genre categories in the category field, right? And link to, for example, Category:Comedy webcomics rather than just comedy from the info box?
 * I do think this will be useful, being able to find all of the manga webcomics or science fiction webcomics in a single category, but I guess I'm not sure yet how to go about this without knowing your thoughts on this -- Should every webcomic have 4 or 5 genre categories? How finely should we divide our categories? Should our categories be consistently used in the infoboxes as well? Dragonfiend 15:47, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
 * It more or less looks like most webcomics will have several genres. Dread Lord C y b e r S k u l l ✎☠ 13:23, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

I more or less copied the basic setups from the film and book genres. I wasn't planning on any really fine grain stuff at this point. Dread Lord C y b e r S k u l l ✎☠ 22:29, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Sounds good. I didn't realize their was a precednt for this type of categorization. I've started adding the catogeories myself. (Though about 99% of the articles I go to add categories to I discover some one else has already added them to. Maybe we should note on the project page which ones are categorized (as well as which ones have infoboxes)? So it's clear which articles need that work?Dragonfiend 19:47, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

Webcomic awards
Ok, as it turns out there are 2 articles on the Web Cartoonist's Choice Awards. I'm gonna need help merging them. (One was started by myself because the other was not listed). Dread Lord C y b e r S k u l l ✎☠ 23:41, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Web Cartoonist's Choice Awards
 * Web Cartoonists' Choice Awards


 * Damnit! I *knew* there was a common spelling of the WCCA's that I was missing (previously, the WCCA article used a directional apostrophe, so nobody could ****ing FIND it)! But no, I'm not sure we really need to reproduce the list of winners, as the lists are real easy to find off the WCCA site; just mentioning the awards on each comics' article should be enough. Nifboy 07:42, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I see what you mean ;) . I reproduced the results for better reference to the articles that have award(s). Dread Lord C y b e r S k u l l ✎☠ 23:41, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

Are those famous enough?
I had started working on an article about a webcomic, but now I'm not sure if it's "notable" enough. It's. I also considered writing an article about, but, well, same problem .I looked at the project page, but looked at the "notability" criteria too late, which are way more strict than the "must have more than 100 strips" mentioned on the project page. I'm neither one of the creators, nor their friend, nor a rabid fan; I just read them a while ago, and added references to those comics to the List of dragons, and thought adding articles would make sense *shrugs* Anke 19:14, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I haven't checked out the articles you've added, but see WP:WEB for more info on whether a particular webcomic may be considered notable. I have also updated the year-old introductory mission statement on this article to reflect the current consensus on notability. Dragonfiend 19:44, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I had written it in Notepad and not added it to Wikipedia. I'm quite sure those comics don't meet the criteria, so I won't add them. Thanks. Anke 07:56, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
 * If you've already got it written up, the Comixpedia wiki will probably want it. --Carnildo 07:59, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

Dr. Shroud
I happened upon this poorly formatted stub, and I was wondering if it's worth saving or if it's AfD fodder. I'm not up on webcomics and wikipedia's standards, so I'd like to get some feedback. Thanks. -R. fiend 22:57, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I don't think WP:COMIC covers flash animations (which are generally one-timers or mini-series), but then, the Red vs Blue article calls its subject a "video webcomic" so I have no clue. Nifboy 03:29, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I wasn't really sure if they were included in the category. Is Homestarrunner a webcomic or a webcartoon? Anyway, I figured anyone here would at least know more on the subject than I do. Should I take it to AfD? -R. fiend 04:47, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
 * See WP:WEB for guidelines on web sites. Dragonfiend 05:58, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I've gone and made it into a proper stub. Dread Lord C y b e r S k u l l ✎☠ 01:49, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Same or Similar Titles
How should we differentiate comics with similar titles but have nothing to do with (and probably aren't aware of) each other? For example, there exists an entry for Roomies (comic) by David Willis, but not one for "Roomies" by Dan Canaan, which has also been established for several years and should have an entry. Should the article titles be "Comic Name (comic) by Author Name", "Author Name's Comic Name" (which wouldn't need "comic" in parens), or some other convention? I think the first is the best bet. Gentaur 15:09, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
 * There is some precedent for doing something like "Comic Name (Author)" or "Comic Name (Author Comic)." For example, Scream (Sarah Bettens) or Birds (Bic Runga album) or Spiders (System of a Down song). -- Dragonfiend 18:55, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

user webcomic
User:CyberSkull/User webcomic What do you think? Dread Lord C y b e r S k u l l ✎☠ 10:29, 26 November 2005 (UTC)


 * It's good, but I also felt like we should have a Project Member template for our User pages. See Webcomics_Project_Member and tell me what you think. Jokermage 06:59, 6 December 2005 (UTC)


 * It's been moved to User webcomic. Enjoy! Dread Lord C y b e r S k u l l ✎☠ 02:02, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I finally got around to adding this to my userbox list. I noticed the webcomic link in the template leads to the category.  Perhaps we could have it lead to the WikiProject instead?  –Abe Dashiell (t/c) 07:44, 10 January 2006 (UTC)


 * No, that's what this one is for. ;) &mdash; Nightstallion (?) 09:25, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Ah, nice one. Any opinion about adding Category:Wikipedians interested in webcomics to this one as well?  I know opinion is divided on adding cats to user boxes. –Abe Dashiell (t/c) 12:36, 10 January 2006 (UTC)


 * AFAIK, categories designed to help with writing an encyclopedia are not controversial, so feel free to add the category... Though I'd prefer something like Category:WikiProject Webcomics members. &mdash; Nightstallion (?) 14:14, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Okay, I created the cat and added it to the userbox. I think I'll add both of these userboxes to the main page. –Abe Dashiell (t/c) 22:53, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Two more...
Found pages for 9th Elsewhere and Secret of Mana Theater which I will be adding to the list and cleaning up over the next few days... - CorbinSimpson 09:51, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

keenspace.com domain name going away
KeenSpot is doing away with the keenspace.com domain, effective at the end of the year (i.e., in a few days). It looks like xxx.keenspace.com will change to either xxx.comicgenesis.com or just xxx.comicgen.com, but whatever the case, we should keep an eye out for keenspace links and fix them as we find them. There's some details in this forum post. –Abe Dashiell (t/c) 15:31, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I fixed a few articles in the list that I could find confirmed URL updates for. –Abe Dashiell (t/c) 16:04, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
 * See WikiProject Webcomics/references to keenspace.com for a machine generated list of affected pages. Should we temporarily add this to the todo list? Bo Lindbergh 23:07, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

I went through the list Bo created and updated all the links and Keenspace references. A fair number of them aren't in the webcomics list, and I suspect if I add those, some will quickly land in AfD. It turns out the keenspace.com domain still works, but as of 11 January, all keenspace urls redirect to comicgenesis. –Abe Dashiell (t/c) 22:23, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

keenspace.com domain gone
I regenerated WikiProject Webcomics/references to keenspace.com from a newer database dump. The list is much shorter this time around. Bo Lindbergh 12:15, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I've fixed a few of these. I'm both sick as a dog and busy as hell, so my Wikitime is greatly diminished, but the list's short, so I'll get it done in the next few days. –Abe Dashiell (t/c) 23:03, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I found a little time, and it didn't take very long to fix the links. There is just one link left to Keenspace, and that is from Dave Kelly's Smut.  Its current url is "smut.comicgenesis.com", but because "smut.com" is blacklisted, it's not possible to update the link.  I noticed this last month and submitted a whitelist request on Meta, but it's not been acted upon. –Abe Dashiell (t/c) 00:19, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Articles for the Wikipedia 1.0 project
Hi, I'm a member of the Version_1.0_Editorial_Team, which is looking to identify quality articles in Wikipedia for future publication on CD or paper. We recently began assessing using these criteria, and we are looking for A-Class and good B-Class articles, with no POV or copyright problems. Can you recommend any suitable articles on Webomics? Obviously, your articles that kick ass are the kind we're looking for. :) Please post your sugestions here. Cheers!--Shanel 03:43, 6 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Problem is, like 98% of them consist almost entirely of lists, usually character lists. As they currently stand I'd reccomend Megatokyo and half of Penny Arcade (the half that is not the crossovers and minor cast lists), possibly Sinfest as well. Nifboy 04:44, 6 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks!--Shanel 18:08, 6 January 2006 (UTC)p


 * I agree with Megatokyo and Sinfest. - Corbin Simpson 21:22, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

For those interested, the list (along with the list of every other Project) is here. Nifboy 03:09, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Webcomic search engine
Oh No Robot is a search engine for webcomics. If anyone needs to lookup a quote or something for the 300+ comics it has, I recommend it. Dread Lord C y b e r S k u l l ✎☠ 09:33, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Should there be a category for comics on Oh No Robot? Nekura 19:35, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't think so. In theory every webcomic could be indexed in it, so we would have every webcomic we have in that category. Dread Lord C y b e r S k u l l ✎☠ 23:59, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Undeletion
I'm interested in getting Stubble undeleted. I belive that the deletion was missing important facts about the strip in the first place, such as the comic had a spin off. In the interest of full disclosure I do state that I have been a fan of Stubble for quite some time now. Dread Lord C y b e r S k u l l ✎☠ 12:44, 28 January 2006 (UTC) "Stubble is an independent humor/drama webcomic by Josh Mirman. It stars the sometimes angsty Clint Wilson and his friends as they experience and struggle with life, love, betrayal, and death. Stubble has been online since the year 2000."
 * It's one of Josh Mirman's comics, so I agree it should have a place. However, after looking at the last deleted version, I think maybe it would be easier just to recreate the article.  It was just a stub that didn't do much to assert its notability.  Here's all it said:
 * I don't think that would survive WP:DRV, and even if it did, you'd end up waiting a week just to get a stub back. If you've got an expanded version in mind that would weather a WP:WEB challenge, I'd post that without worrying about formal undeletion. –Abe Dashiell (t/c) 13:05, 28 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Oh, and if you do recreate it and someone speedies it, let me know. I'll undelete it and pass it on to AfD if necessary.  Recreations shouldn't get speedied, but sometimes they're mistaken for out-of-process undeletions. –Abe Dashiell (t/c) 13:31, 28 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Ok, thanks for the info. I haven't seen the article in a long time and I couldn't remember what it said. Looks like I gotta get writing. Dread Lord C y b e r S k u l l ✎☠ 00:16, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

what does the template mean?
I recently came across the Wikiproject Webcomics template on Talk:Stickworld. What does it mean that an article is part of the project? Are the folks involved advocating the existance of the article and/or indicating an intention to improve it? I ask because this particular one looked a lot like a speedy candidate, and has been deleted, yet it still has the template on its talk page. I think it would be useful to do more than slap a template on it, when the article is up for deletion. Is any webcomic, no matter how unheard of, going to be considered part of this project? Friday (talk) 20:47, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Near as I can tell it's just a standard plate applied to anything in Category: Webcomics. Although it just occured to me that the list on the project page (which, theoretically, should contain everything in list of webcomics) is a worklist that existed before worklists were popular. Nifboy 21:23, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I generally consider any webcomic-related article to fall under the project. Speedy candidates are the exception, but that particular iteration of the article was nominated for deletion via WP:PROD, not WP:CSD.  I didn't believe it was sufficiently important to be saved, which is why I didn't remove the , but because we do keep track of deletion candidates, I added the template. In any case, I deleted that talk page.  I'm not sure why that wasn't removed along with the article itself.  –Abe Dashiell (t/c) 21:36, 7 February 2006 (UTC)