Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Women in Red/Archive 100

What percentage of your biography edits are on pages about women?
Has anyone created a tool that gives this metric? Or related ones like what percentage of the biography pages a user has created have been about women? I'd be curious to see it! &#123;{u&#124; Sdkb  }&#125;  talk 18:30, 20 August 2021 (UTC)
 * well now that depends. Pretty much every biography I have written from scratch is about a woman or non-binary person. I've done a handful of men's bios, surely less than 10. But that being said, I am often adding information to the biographies of their partner, spouse, colleagues', who are of various genders, to better integrate women into the encyclopedia. How many random edits might that be to pages that aren't a woman's bio? I have no idea. Giving a percentage would be hard to do, but way more than 50% and less than 100%. SusunW (talk) 20:14, 20 August 2021 (UTC)
 * , I keep track of it manually. I've created 5,317 new articles of which 1,527 were biographies about women (about 29%). --Rosiestep (talk) 20:31, 20 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Yeah, like any automated tool, it would need to come with the caveat that its use is limited; it's not a how-feminist-is-your-editing score where rating less than 10% means an automatic RfA oppose. But it's a data point I think many editors might like to know about themselves or others, and might motivate some people to contribute more. &#123;{u&#124; Sdkb  }&#125;  talk 20:34, 20 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Watch out, @Rosiestep, you'll have me fangirling over here (haha). -- A Rose Wolf  20:38, 20 August 2021 (UTC)
 * , haha. ;) --Rosiestep (talk) 23:46, 20 August 2021 (UTC)
 * I'm just completing a study of 1,000 "random article button" articles. North8000 (talk) 22:21, 20 August 2021 (UTC)
 * , for the potential for misinterpretation you mention I would feel a bit weird about such a tool. I’m not so sure what purpose it would serve to drill down on individual editors’ themes of focus, even if we made it equal opportunity (e.g. making it possible to look at percentage of edits under any project tag, not just women’s bios). Innisfree987 (talk) 22:56, 20 August 2021 (UTC)
 * , An educated guess on my edits - at least 90% of edits are on women's' biographies, organizations, or feminist movements - including suffrage. WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 23:06, 20 August 2021 (UTC)
 * (That said I’m personally happy to share that two-thirds of my bios started are about women.) Innisfree987 (talk) 23:15, 20 August 2021 (UTC)


 * As this seems to be an opportunity for displaying our achievements, with 1,609 biographies of women (nearly all start class or higher) I seem to be slightly ahead of . But I am well behind her in the total number of articles created as I've only created 2,620. There are quite a few other contributors who have created far, far more articles about women, especially those in the the sports sector. For example has now created almost 100,000 articles, many of which are about women (although I wouldn't dare to guess what proportion). As for the proposed tool, I'm not too sure it would be very useful for individual editors as I think most of us have a pretty good idea of how much of our editing time is devoted to creating articles about women. Indeed, several of use keep a tally, displaying the results on our user pages.--Ipigott (talk) 08:54, 21 August 2021 (UTC)
 * , you are an inspiration to us all! --Rosiestep (talk) 12:55, 21 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the kind words. I have no idea what percentage of the pages I've started are women's biographies either, but I did make an active effort to start with female biographies for missing Olympians for Tokyo 2020 (swimming, athletics, shooting, rowing, etc). And, of course, I do make a special effort when it comes to women's cricket, including, but not limited to, the captains of the Kenyan, Nigerian and Rwandan cricket teams. Take that, systematic bias!  Lugnuts  Fire Walk with Me 09:11, 21 August 2021 (UTC)
 * From time to time,, I look at the articles you have been creating over the past few days and often find long, long lists of women. You are frequently also the editor who has contributed most articles to AlexNewArtBot's listing for Women in Red. Many of them may be short stubs but they all contribute to the number of articles on women each month. Keep up the good work!--Ipigott (talk) 11:51, 21 August 2021 (UTC)
 * I did not understand the question to be how many women's biographies one has written out of the total articles, but of all of your edits how many are to women's biographies. The 2nd one is harder to answer as I cannot judge out of nearly 60,000 edits to nearly 12,000 pages how many of them were to women's biographies. Most of them clearly, as out of 1365 pages I have created 1235 (+/-90%) of them were women's bios and another 37 were women's schools, women's movements, and women's organizations. I was surprised that I have written 23 articles about men, more than I thought but all but 5 of them were related to articles about women. SusunW (talk) 13:00, 21 August 2021 (UTC)
 * If we take pages first, out of your 1,365 new pages, two are FAs, 43 GAs, 102 Bs and 630 Cs. As far as I can see, all of these are about women. I don't think anyone else is even close to these achievements. As for edits, I would guess that about 98% of all your 56,000 edits have been about women. From my general stats, I would also estimate that about 130,000 of my 172,800 edits have been directly associated with women as in mid-2015 I decided to spend most of my editing time on this important new priority.--Ipigott (talk) 19:44, 21 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Incredible work by both of you! As well as Rosie, Lugnuts, Antiqueight and others on this remarkable thread. Wow—well done and thank you for these really tremendous contributions. Innisfree987 (talk) 23:23, 21 August 2021 (UTC)

I don't have a tool but I have a script which can be replicated about the share of biographies about women I've created : Articles created by gender. It uses R, PAWS Jupyter notebook and wikidata. Feel free to ask me any question about the script. PAC2 (talk) 20:06, 21 August 2021 (UTC)


 * @PAC2, that looks very promising! I'm not too familiar with scripts; how do I run it?
 * To reply to some of the comments above, it seems like many people here pay close attention to how many pages about women they create, which isn't surprising given which talk page this is haha. I envision the tool as more something that might nudge editors less focused on this area--they'd click on it if it's easy to activate just out of curiosity, get a gut check of "oh, almost all my articles have been about men", and then decide to go write some articles about women to remedy their personal imbalance. &#123;{u&#124; Sdkb  }&#125;  talk 20:29, 21 August 2021 (UTC)
 * I keep a page here (*on wiki) and on excel (they can be copied one to the other if needed) to check my article creations (no clue what individual edits would be). Currently I have created 666 women's bios, which is 91.11%, Places comes to 25 or 3.42%, bios about Men 13 or 1.78%. I have created 10 Lists and 10 articles about Groups of people at 1.37% each. The rest 7 articles are less than 1% of those I've done.  &#9749;  Antiqueight  chatter 21:57, 21 August 2021 (UTC)


 * Not going to do that math right now, but I want to say this: for every article I start about a woman, I probably improve ten or twelve others. Articles about towns, colleges, businesses, government agencies, organizations, museums, movements, films, species, concert halls, events, and people get improved whenever there's a new article about a woman. It's just part of stitching each bio into the fabric of the encyclopedia. Penny Richards (talk) 23:10, 21 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes ! That's what I was trying to say. Those are random and impossible to quantify. Is she tied to her spouse? Partner? School? Organizations? World events she was part of? Of course then there is the reverse, I write anchor articles usually with lots of help to cover all of women's names in them. Integration is so important. I learn a lot reading an article on a woman and then following the links to others. SusunW (talk) 14:31, 22 August 2021 (UTC)
 * I've a small handout here User:PAC2/How to compute gender statistics about your contributions?. Hope it clears. I'd be happy to improve my script and transform it as a tool each user can use. PAC2 (talk) 07:59, 22 August 2021 (UTC)


 * I think every editor here is amazing, whether you've written one article, a thousand, saved an article from deletion, participated in one edit-a-thon or every event since the very first. No one knows your life journey better than you but we see your talents, your gifts, your abilities on display. The very act of researching and writing a single completed article about another person's life is an incredible feat. Many here have done this multiple times over. One word or a million, thank you to everyone here for revealing the incredible Song's of women around the world and throughout history. -- A Rose Wolf  12:18, 23 August 2021 (UTC)

Mary Cutts
Hi all, I've created Mary Cutts, an interesting article on Dolley Madison's niece. Any chance anyone can find a picture or some more information? Cheers, Eddie891 Talk Work 14:18, 23 August 2021 (UTC)


 * In an odd coincidence I just added portraits of her parents to Commons, I'll see if I can find one of her.  Gamaliel  ( talk ) 19:07, 23 August 2021 (UTC)

Sara Solá de Castellanos
I just created this biography, Sara Solá de Castellanos, as a translation from the ES-WP, and then added additional content/references. Any chance someone can find her year of death? --Rosiestep (talk) 19:20, 23 August 2021 (UTC)

Rosa Egipcíaca - but what about her book?
Hello all! I started a page the other day for Rosa Egipcíaca who was the first black woman in Brazil to write a book. I wondered if her book should also have a page? If so, would it be best to leave the title in Spanish (it was never translated and mostly destroyed by the Portuguese Inquisition). The book was called Sagrada Teologia do Amor Divino das Almas Peregrinas. I'd welcome people's thoughts. Also, if anyone has Spanish - would they be able to check how google translated the title of the book? Lajmmoore (talk) 13:37, 23 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Lajmmoore I would say write a section about the book in the article. If you find significant coverage about the book as distinct from its author, you can create a book article later. The title would be Portuguese and there seem to be two versions for some reason, at present the translation is the long version and the title is the short version. I have a little Portuguese and have tweaked the translations

I'd think redirect from the book to her - and from all versions of the title both in English and in Portuguese. I see that pt.wiki doesn't have a separate article on the book. I wonder too: is the text of those six pages available online anywhere? Or, if not, where is it published? Pam D  20:53, 23 August 2021 (UTC)
 * The Cambridge History of Latin American Women's Literature has Sagrada Teologia do Amor de Deus, Luz Brilhante das Almas Peregrinas Sacred Theology of the Love of God, Shining Light of Pilgrim Souls
 * Literary Cultures of Latin America : a Comparative History has Sagrada Teologia do Amor Divino das Almas Peregrinas Sacred Theology of the Divine Love of Pilgrim Souls. TSventon (talk) 15:17, 23 August 2021 (UTC)
 * , thanks very much! & what a *facepalm* - of course I meant Portuguese! What a silly mistake. Thank you for your help! Lajmmoore (talk) 15:29, 23 August 2021 (UTC)

Voting period ends 31 August
Did you know... that there are 19 candidates for the 4 available seats in the 2021 WMF Board of Trustees election? View candidate statements, verify your eligibility and vote now. The voting period ends 31 August. --Rosiestep (talk) 16:14, 23 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: It looks like eligible voters can vote in ranked order, or simply vote for only one candidate. WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 15:56, 24 August 2021 (UTC)

request for opinions/help
Hello hive brain! I have been editing the article on the artist Mellor. I think the page needs to be moved from Dawn Mellor to Bod Mellor with a redirect from Dawn to Bod. I currently have it set up the other way-round. The artist changed their name via deed poll. I assume that declaration along with a name change at the Tate is enough to allow this change. The talk page appears to have a message from the subject requesting the name and pronoun change. Any thoughts? Or feel free to move the page if you agree.

Also I think the artist should be moved from the List of gay, lesbian or bisexual people: M to the List of people with non-binary gender identities, but that list is a table and I don't use the visual editor, so I could some help with that too. Thanks! WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 15:54, 24 August 2021 (UTC)
 * , I'll request the move on the talk page. Are there any other sources that reflect the change other than Tate? -- A Rose Wolf  16:12, 24 August 2021 (UTC)
 * I can't find any other "reliable" sources, and that's an issue. How does one change their identity if all past references are to the old person? It looks like Mellor has gotten the Tate to change, but history does not really support this. I don't know where Wikipedia stands on this. That's why I have tossed out to the group. I believe the change/declaration occurred in 2020. WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 16:24, 24 August 2021 (UTC)
 * I put the move out there. Let the community decide. If consensus is to allow then the move is simple. If the consensus is the opposite then we tried. No harm done. -- A Rose Wolf  16:28, 24 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Thank you for passing it along to the BIG hive brain :) WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 16:30, 24 August 2021 (UTC)
 * , You are so welcome, lovely. Thank you so much for all that you do. This is just one aspect of what WiR is about. We collaborate and work together to build a better and more inclusive encyclopedia where we can. -- A Rose  Wolf  16:37, 24 August 2021 (UTC)

52nd WIR Editathon
The 52nd WIR Editathon hosted at the University of Edinburgh by will take place tomorrow. Newbies welcome. Register with eventbrite (details in the link). A new article in a few hours is a frequent occurrence! how Ask Singlehammer how they found over 3,000 accused "witches" and added them all to Wikidata (that's a lot of 16th century women suddenly siezed from obscurity)... and the editathons worked on articles about Eagle House (a place with monuments created by over 60 UK suffragettes) that was bulldozed 60 years ago. May see you on-line. Drop in when you can, I will. Victuallers (talk) 10:47, 24 August 2021 (UTC)
 * I registered! --Rosiestep (talk) 11:16, 24 August 2021 (UTC)
 * , I didn't get the Zoom link. Maybe I misunderstood; is it an in-person event? --Rosiestep (talk) 14:24, 25 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Ah sorry about that Rosie, the Zoom link was emailed to email addresses signed up to the Eventbrite. Can you check the email address you used at signup and see whether the email got placed in junk or spam folders? If not received at all then might change things up for next workshop on Fri 24th Sept. Sorry again. Stinglehammer (talk) 17:14, 25 August 2021 (UTC)
 * , I checked my spam and there wasn't anything there. I did receive the Eventbrite "Order Confirmation for Women in Red event - adding inspiring women missing from Wikipedia" in my email Inbox immediately after registering so that part worked fine. Oh, well. Hope it was a good event! --Rosiestep (talk) 17:59, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

Request for inputs
Greetings,


 * Hi, I'm User:Bookku a discussion about the sourced content is underway @ Talk:Minar-e-Pakistan. Your inputs are requested and awaited. Thanks and warm regards


 * &#32;Bookku, &#39;Encyclopedias are for expanding information and knowledge&#39; (talk) 18:12, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

Using photos from newspaper archives
Hello everyone, I am seeking some guidance on images which are seemingly out-of-copyright due to their age but nonetheless owned by corporations. I use the British Newspaper Archive quite a lot to research British women, and have come across some photos of women that I have not been able to come across elsewhere. Some of these are very old images, e.g. published ~1900. However, since these images have been uploaded by and are owned by different publishing groups I'm assuming the date argument doesn't matter? I have saved the bare URLs in my sandbox for reference. If anyone has ran into this problem before I'd be grateful to hear any advice! Unexpectedlydian (talk) 19:20, 27 August 2021 (UTC)
 * To be published on WP, they must either have a fair use rationale (person is dead and no readily available free copy can be found), and be uploaded only to en.wp or must be in the public domain in the country of first publication and in the US. US rules are here and basically require proof that they were published (Not taken, published) between 1926 and 1978 and 95 years have lapsed since publication or it meets a bunch of conditions if published after 1926; after 1978, the rule is basically life of the author + 70 years. If they appear in a newspaper, that is evidence of publication. You'll need to evaluate British statutes if they all appeared in British newspapers. or  may be willing to help you sort it out. SusunW (talk) 20:03, 27 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Susun is quite right. Note something rather similar made a rather large brouhaha a few years ago, enough we have an article about it: National Portrait Gallery and Wikimedia Foundation copyright dispute. In short, an editor uploaded a large number of some old images from a major British museum, which the museum claimed copyright on for debatable reasons, and The Wikimedia Foundation stood by the editor. So Wikipedia will stand by you if you are in the right. The relevant rules are https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Copyright_rules_by_territory/United_Kingdom If the photographer is known, copyright is 70 years after photographer's death, if unknown, copyright is 70 years after publication. If these are newspaper photos circa 1900, they're pretty likely to be public domain, unless the photographer is both known and unusually long lived. You can use license templates https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:PD-UK-unknown and/or https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:PD-old-assumed (Use them so:  ). --GRuban (talk) 20:47, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

Draft:Edna Alexander
Can anyone help build out this draft? It would be great if we could have an article about her, but the citations given are all mere mentions (basically just song credits). Calliopejen1 (talk) 21:27, 6 August 2021 (UTC)
 * clarifies her pseudonym was Alex Belledna, ,,,,w/ photo, which is the Colored American article which is marked need full citation. Hope they help. SusunW (talk) 04:18, 7 August 2021 (UTC)
 * and, I uploaded the photo but am having a little bit of Saturday brain fog. It looks like the image is in The Colored American magazine. v.3-4 901-1902 but Ms. Alexander was born in 1920 according to wikidata. What do y'all think? WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 15:55, 7 August 2021 (UTC)
 * that date seems highly unlikely. She married in 1917, which would be before she was born. o.0 Let me see if I can find anything to clarify. SusunW (talk) 16:41, 7 August 2021 (UTC)
 * There's an Edna Mae Alexander (1920-1979) ... On the face of it that's who the WD item is for - https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q60829808 - there may or may not be conflation going on ... Edna Mae was also a composer/songwriter, according to VIAF. Our Edna is Edna Belle Alexander (d. 1972). --Tagishsimon (talk) 17:04, 7 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks for that . our Edna Belle was born on 9 or 19 March 1894 according to a 1958 ship passenger list or the Social Security office. The year is confirmed by their marriage record, which took place on 19 March 1917 in Council Bluffs, Iowa. mom Mary Hamilton father Price Alexander, who is confirmed by one of those newspaper clips above.  Also found a note that said her birth 19 March 1892, as per 3 sources.,,. These say she was born in Iowa, not Canada? SusunW (talk) 17:17, 7 August 2021 (UTC)
 * BUT, then it seems to me that there is still something wrong as our woman born in 1892-1894 would've been 7-9 years old in 1901, so I think that is not a photo of our lady. SusunW (talk) 17:23, 7 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks for all the intel! For now I will remove the image from the draft but will leave the photo in the commons. And Wow! a real cringe-worthy write up in the magazine.WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 17:46, 7 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Doing one more screening for due diligence, she was issued a delayed certificate of birth in 1939. Her father Price was the informant and stated she was born 19 March 1892 in Ottumwa, Wapello, Iowa. Clearly that is the most logical date given both primary and secondary sources. I'm just not sure there is enough here without the Colored American article to support GNG, unless someone has access to other sources. SusunW (talk) 17:55, 7 August 2021 (UTC)
 * (I'm getting to this late, so I'm going to ping a few of you:, , ) Based on connections between these 5 sources, I think the picture of the Edna Alexander above is Edna Alexander Farrell, who grew up in Chicago but died (in Austria or Australia) on August 31, 1913. It seems she was the leading soprano in the musical A Trip to Coontown and was a lead in Williams and Walker Co. shows. I've found a handful of other mentions about her and her family, but would she pass notability? Also, could Edna Belle Alexander meet WP:COMPOSER for "Sugar: That Sugar Baby O'Mine"? Either way, there's this write-up about the use of her pseudonym Alex Belledna, and a handful of reviews for the musical Pansy that she co-wrote, including one (although very negative) from the New York Times. Also, there's a mention of "The Maceo and Edna Pinkard publishing company" and the "Pinkard and Alexander Music Company", although I'm not sure if that just means her and Maceo self-published their own songs for a time or published others' music. - Whisperjanes (talk) 23:04, 21 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Whoops, and now I see that SusunW already mentioned most of the sources above (face palm)! Either way, I still wonder if that one music credit would mean she meets WP:COMPOSER.- Whisperjanes (talk) 23:16, 21 August 2021 (UTC)

This is exciting ! Though I cannot see any of the PQ articles, it looks to me as if you have access to articles of their collection of the Associated Negro Press! Perhaps there is info there on Edna Pinkard as well. I'm handicapped right now. Power outages are ongoing from "Grace", but it looks as if you have been able to sort the confusion. As I can't see any of the sources, can't judge based on GNG, but thank you! I am hoping that the power situation stabilizes soon. SusunW (talk) 16:47, 22 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Two interesting people, a performer and songwriter. Thanks to everyone for the sources and efforts to untangle. The earlier one is pictured on Flickr with her interview quoted and then conflated with the later songwriter. I will work to untangle. Both appear to be notable and the songwriter co-wrote other notable tunes such as "Kitchen Man" which was recorded by nunerous artists on major labels over many years. I will work to untangle. FloridaArmy (talk) 00:52, 23 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks for starting the draft, ! The name was more common in that time period than I would have guessed, so hopefully the untangling (now that we know these two) won't be too too difficult. And, I hope your power situation is getting better? And yes, luckily I have library access to ProQuest's database of Historical Black Newspapers, which has come in immensely handy for researching biographies so far. I'll have to take another look soon if I can find more about Edna Pickard (there's always that process of going through all of the possible name combinations, and I probably haven't tried them all yet). - Whisperjanes (talk) 01:07, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

Women Do News
Are any watchers of this page involved with the initiative Women Do News, aimed at adding women journalists to Wikipedia? I happened across a previous editathon of theirs and then learned they have one planned for September 15, which coincides with our virtual editathon on Women writers. I don’t know if the organizers might like to be connected in some way (whether we should share their meetup; or they might like some of our red lists; or other thing I haven’t thought of?) Innisfree987 (talk) 17:04, 25 August 2021 (UTC)
 * This is a highly active group. They've already done lots of good work.--Ipigott (talk) 07:29, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
 * See Women Do News for details of their editathon on 12 September.--Ipigott (talk) 09:05, 27 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Just to clarify, it’s 1PM PT on September 15. Innisfree987 (talk) 12:00, 27 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Sorry,, I don't know where I got that date from. You are quite right, it's on the 15th but it seems more of a workshop than an editathon.--Ipigott (talk) 09:28, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

Flagicon for New Kingdom of Granada
I just translated the biography of Jerónima Nava y Saavedra, a writer and Catholic religious from New Kingdom of Granada (present-day Colombia). I can't sort out the flagicon for New Kingdom of Granada to be added on our event pages 205 and 208. What I added is a redlink. I also added the flags of Spain and Colombia but I'm not sure if that is correct. Any historians here who can help? Thanks. --Rosiestep (talk) 16:05, 28 August 2021 (UTC)


 * New Kingdom of Granada needs a Template:Country_data_New Kingdom_of_Granada along the lines of Template:Country_data_Iran, for the flagicon to work. --Tagishsimon (talk) 17:05, 28 August 2021 (UTC)


 * And that's now fixed. --Tagishsimon (talk) 18:22, 28 August 2021 (UTC)
 * , thank you!! Rosiestep (talk) 19:26, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

Mary V. R. Thayer
Newly created article on Mary V. R. Thayer. Fascinated me, at least. Others may be able to find more to flesh it out Eddie891 Talk Work 21:09, 29 August 2021 (UTC)

Women's shelter
Greetings,

Request for inputs: A Peer review request has been made for the article Women's shelter to  brainstorm and understand information gaps and uncovered areas and to receive a broader perspective on how it may be improved, please do share your inputs at the review page.

Thanks and warm regards

&#32;Bookku, &#39;Encyclopedias &#61; expanding information &#38; knowledge&#39; (talk) 13:25, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

Does any one fancy a small sleuthing?
Hello all! A while ago I started a page for Queens of Industry - who were representatives of the industries they worked in, primarily in the UK from the 1920s to 1970. One of the well known queens was Railway Queen, Audrey Mossom/n - see here. I had been under the impression that her surname was Mossom, but recently an IP editor has changed the references to Mosson - but with no references. I'd like to give the benefit of doubt, and I wondered if anyone was good with any of the UK genealogy websites and might be able to work out which spelling is accurate? It's not in my skillset, sadly. Many thanks Lajmmoore (talk) 15:10, 30 August 2021 (UTC)
 * What I see is father Percy Henry Mosson (1891–1973), mother Elsie Winifred Kitchen (1892–1952), m. July 1940 husband Thomas A G Tulloch (1917–1996). In addition to various primary records, there are newspaper clippings from the Western Daily Press in the records of ancestry.com, some of which use the spelling Mossom and some use Mosson. You might try searching for newspaper clips for any of those people and see if you find anything in UK papers. I find nada in newspapers.com or newspaperarchive.com. SusunW (talk) 16:11, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

Splitting the Wikidata lists of poets
In preparing for our September event, Women writers & their works, I looked at the two Wikidata lists we have for poets, Poets 1 and Poets 2, which together total >10,000 names. With so many names, it would probably make sense to split them more descriptively, perhaps by year of birth. Does anyone have ability/time/inclination to work on this? --Rosiestep (talk) 15:21, 27 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red/Missing articles by occupation/Poets born before [foo]
 * Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red/Missing articles by occupation/Poets born in the [foo]th-century
 * Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red/Missing articles by occupation/Poets born [foo]-[foo]
 * WikiProject Women in Red/Missing articles by occupation/Poets missing year of birth
 * I’ll give it a go; I think I know how to do all but maybe the last one, and perhaps I’ll be able to learn! Innisfree987 (talk) 16:48, 27 August 2021 (UTC)
 * If you need help let me know. I'll do everything I can to assist you. Thanks, . -- A Rose Wolf  16:51, 27 August 2021 (UTC)
 * ,, I’ve made some progress and will be reaching out for more help about how to optimize the queries I’ve got so longer list can load without timing out (ARW, very grateful for any ideas you have!), because right now this query, for instance, of women poets born before 1850, loads 750 names in SPARQL, but is killed by Listeria for overtaxing the OS. Woe. Unless this can be improved, the 11,000-person list will have to become at least 12 lists (a couple pre-1900; basically one every decade for the 20th c. until 1980-present; and another list of undated names.) I just wanted to ask whether that sounded useful to folks, or if with that many lists, it would be more helpful to use a different way of divvying up, perhaps by geography? I am agnostic, just want to see what others would find most constructive! Innisfree987 (talk) 05:07, 28 August 2021 (UTC)
 * , I really don't know what's the best way forward. Maybe, our Librarian-in-Residence has some thoughts? --Rosiestep (talk) 05:12, 28 August 2021 (UTC)
 * may have some ideas about this. He has been able to get some of the longer lists to update by removing some of the columns.--Ipigott (talk) 09:10, 28 August 2021 (UTC)
 * I can look at this later today. I agree that if they need to be split down to decade, the division wouldn't be that meaningful. I can try other criteria and see how's the distribution. Maybe carving out top countries to their individual lists, and then have some regional lists for countries with a low number of entries? MarioGom (talk) 09:23, 28 August 2021 (UTC)
 * For Listeria limits, you can try removing columns containing geographical data until it works. I think the autodescriptions, which often includes countries, do not contribute to Listeria limits. Country of citizenship, place of birth, and place of death, are the ones overloading. MarioGom (talk) 09:27, 28 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the reminder about columns, had forgotten about that. I’ll continue to try to wrangle Listeria. But yes in any event, decades like the 1940s, ‘50s and ‘60s each have more than 1000 names, so based on recent Listeria limitations it seems like it would be hard to group them. I’m interested to hear what Megalibrarygirl thinks. I like the idea of country and regional lists. Or some combination—I’d guess UK and US poets may be long lists, might still need division by era. Innisfree987 (talk) 17:09, 28 August 2021 (UTC)
 * On a cursory test, it seems no country (per at least) reaches 1000 entries. So it would be viable, at least technically. Also maybe it's good to have the pre-1850 list, even if we also have lists by other criteria, since historical countries are quite messy for lists. Anyway, if you need help with any query, feel free to ping me. MarioGom (talk) 17:37, 28 August 2021 (UTC)


 * As an update on work-in-progress, I made some country lists (of those with the most red links) and some regional lists, listed at WP:WikiProject_Women_in_Red/Redlist_index%23Occupation_and_country. So far it covers about 3,000 of the 11,000 poets. Unfortunately almost 4,000 have no country of citizenship listed; am still futzing with the lists I have to see if including other parameters like country of origin, etc., could get more people, [ETA: seems not to make a difference] ; will make more regional lists; even if not all the names get covered, this seems more helpful than decade splits. I hope! Innisfree987 (talk) 05:45, 30 August 2021 (UTC)
 * , I like separating by country of citizenship. It makes it easier to target countries with languages you know. :) Megalibrarygirl (talk) 23:00, 30 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Thank you for weighing in, and so glad this seems like a good way of organizing the info, to an expert! Innisfree987 (talk) 23:37, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

Canadian suffragettes
While searching for sourcing on women's nationality, I ran across this amazing bibliography for sources on Canadian suffragettes/feminists. Not sure where to put it, as it isn't biographies per se, but surely a red list could be developed from it and it would be an invaluable tool for anyone who is interested in Canadian women's history. Just thought I'd share it if anyone is interested. SusunW (talk) 17:50, 28 August 2021 (UTC)
 * It certainly appears to contain some interesting resources. Perhaps could look through it and perhaps pick out some of those we could draw on. Not sure to what extent they are accessible over the internet. Some of the biographies on pp 67-73 look as if they would be useful.--Ipigott (talk) 15:25, 29 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Great minds, ! I e-mailed it to Sue when I found it. And yes, that is the question, are the materials available on-line? Even if they are not, the biography section gives names which perhaps will help us develop broader coverage of Canadian women, if the sources can be located. SusunW (talk) 15:36, 29 August 2021 (UTC)
 * We could start by checking out the names of those mentioned under biographies and add any who look significant to WikiProject_Women_in_Red/Missing_articles_by_occupation/Suffrage either under Canada or wherever else.--Ipigott (talk) 15:47, 29 August 2021 (UTC)
 * I was kind of hoping that one of those lovely technically inclined people could figure out a way to isolate the names given and make a list. For me, it'd be a long process to read, select, research if we have an article, etc. I do wish I had a magic wand. SusunW (talk) 16:16, 29 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Probably not as difficult as you think. Many of the names appear more than once and most already have bios on Wikipedia. I'll take a closer look tomorrow.--Ipigott (talk) 16:48, 29 August 2021 (UTC)
 * I've been through the biographies. There were only two which were redlinks, Sarah Florence Hussey (already listed on WikiProject_Women_in_Red/Missing_articles_by_occupation/Suffrage#Canada) and Emily Spencer Kerby, whom I've added.--Ipigott (talk) 11:23, 30 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks I am sure more names exist in the treasure trove, but good to know that we have covered most of them in that section. Appreciate your going through them. SusunW (talk) 12:58, 30 August 2021 (UTC)
 * When Sue embarks on Canada, she will no doubt find them useful.--Ipigott (talk) 14:46, 30 August 2021 (UTC)
 * , I still have sooooo much USA to do. But yeah, Canada sounds good. There were a lot of Husseys involved in women's suffrage in the US, too. I wonder if they're related? Megalibrarygirl (talk) 23:07, 30 August 2021 (UTC)
 * There seem to be lots of Husseys all over the place. As for embarking on the Canadian provinces, you've now covered almost half the American states (each with a general article, a timeline and a list) in almost exactly a year. You should therefore be able to move to Canada by late 2022 -- unless of course you have other things in mind.--Ipigott (talk) 06:35, 31 August 2021 (UTC)

Katrina Forrester
Does Katrina Forrester pass WP:NPROF? Her monograph on Rawls won some notable awards but I'm not seeing a clear pass of notability standards. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 01:11, 2 September 2021 (UTC)


 * It looks like a fairly clear pass to me. The Drover&#39;s Wife (talk) 04:19, 2 September 2021 (UTC)

August metrics
The month's not over yet but with less than 1,800 articles to date, it looks as if this is going to be our least productive month this year as well as our weakest August to date. This is surprising as August is usually one of our most productive months. Maybe with the assistance of some of our prolific sports enthusiasts like and keen contributors like, we can still create many more. Let's see how it goes.--Ipigott (talk) 11:43, 28 August 2021 (UTC)
 * I got a late start this month and I'm working on it, but I don't know that I can manage more than about 2 per day for the rest of the month... and if I manage that it'll be a miracle cause I'm getting windows put in and it's a mite distracting ;-)  &#9749;  Antiqueight  chatter 11:11, 28 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the quick response. Don't overdo it. I just gave you as an example. I hope many others will help out too. In any case, with Women writers coming up next month, we should soon be able to make up any shortfall.--Ipigott (talk) 11:41, 28 August 2021 (UTC)
 * I love the August editathons, but this is the first time I've gotten to see my mom irl in two years, so my participation level is close to zilch for a good reason :) -Yupik (talk) 00:11, 29 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately so far I've managed only 1 a day since I said that... le sigh.... Ah well....  &#9749;  Antiqueight  chatter 21:34, 29 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Having restarted my efforts on the 17th I didn't quite manage an average of 1 a day for august... but I did get 26 done!  &#9749;  Antiqueight  chatter 20:28, 31 August 2021 (UTC)
 * I've been focussing elsewhere but saw this call and have written about two Aussie writers (too early for Writers' month!) and will do more this month and next.--Oronsay (talk) 21:43, 29 August 2021 (UTC)


 * I see we're up at 2,240 for August today, a considerable increase. Thanks to all who contributed over the last few days. It certainly made a difference.--Ipigott (talk) 06:59, 2 September 2021 (UTC)

Noliwe Rooks photo
Hello, is there an available photo of Noliwe Rooks that can be used in her article? Thank you, Thriley (talk) 17:04, 30 August 2021 (UTC)
 * I couldn't find a CC image of Rooks but I did find a CC-licensed YouTube video of Melissa Nobles and Tracey Meares. Would be great if someone could extract a usable image from here: . TJMSmith (talk) 17:59, 30 August 2021 (UTC)
 * maybe you can help get screenshots of Nobles and Meares? Not sure if there is a CC image of Rooks. TJMSmith (talk) 20:11, 1 September 2021 (UTC)
 * , thanks for the ping, I had missed this! I’ll be glad to give it a go. Innisfree987 (talk) 20:56, 1 September 2021 (UTC)
 * ✅ and added to their bios. Good find, ! Innisfree987 (talk) 18:29, 2 September 2021 (UTC)
 * , yay! Thank you! TJMSmith (talk) 18:40, 2 September 2021 (UTC)

Metrics adjustment
Metrics junkies will know that WiR's metrics slightly overstate the count of qualifying articles, because the ReportBot does not remove redirect and disambiguation pages from the monthly lists.

Articles which have been added to WP and the metrics with Title A, but which have been moved to Title B, are added a second time as Title B, without Title A being removed. (Example, from June 2021, we have Holly Aitchison (rugby union), a redirect, listed & counted, as well as Holly Aitchison. IMO this is a bad thing; we're double counting.

Equally, articles added to WP and the metrics with Title A, but changed to a redirect to another article entirely (example) are also not removed. Does WiR want to count the creation of articles which are subsequently changed to a redirect? WiR metrics do not count articles which have been deleted (They're removed from the monthly lists); and 'changed to a redirect to another article entirely' is a form of deletion.

I suspect it'd be possible to reset a monthly count page, by deleting the content of the page; I think ReportBot will recreate the page on its next daily run and will not add DABs and redirects.

And I'd quite like to try that. I'd like metrics to report on the number of articles, not the number of articles plus redirects.

Clearly, were this done, numbers would go down - my estimate, by about 3-4% - but, arguably, accuracy would go up.

Thoughts? --Tagishsimon (talk) 20:17, 2 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Support. Thanks for this idea on how to resolve the issue. Innisfree987 (talk) 20:37, 2 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Please go ahead and make the necessary adjustments. If the count is made correctly, I suppose it should correspond with the stats from Humaniki, although these are not compiled on a monthly basis.--Ipigott (talk) 16:13, 3 September 2021 (UTC)

Public domain 1968 yearbook image? Linda Trip
Is it likely that the 1968 yearbook image posted here:, could be public domain  ? How could that be verified? TJMSmith (talk) 18:42, 3 September 2021 (UTC)
 * , I found a similar one that I verified as PD-US-no notice. I'll upload it! Calliopejen1 (talk) 20:28, 3 September 2021 (UTC)
 * ✅ See Linda Tripp. Calliopejen1 (talk) 20:39, 3 September 2021 (UTC)
 * , great, thanks! TJMSmith (talk) 21:33, 3 September 2021 (UTC)

Let Us Not Praise Famous Women
I came across this recent blogpost by Deborah Cameron, the linguist who wrote The Myth of Mars and Venus: Do Men and Women Really Speak Different Languages?. In "Let Us Not Praise Famous Women", she investigates some of the names in  Women in the History of Linguistics, published at the end of last year by OUP. What information is available to the general non-academic reader, who hasn't got £110 for a copy of the book? Unsurprisingly, some but not all of the women she looks for are represented on Wikipedia; unsurprisingly, many of these mentions are inadequate and in some cases insulting.


 * The Wikipedia part of the problem (which matters because Wikipedia is such a go-to source for students and anyone without access to academic libraries) is well-known, and there have been efforts to deal with it by organizing ‘edit-a-thons’ in which entries for missing women are added. But this approach has limitations. It’s implicitly based on the assumption that women have been overlooked inadvertently, and that attempts to correct the record will be welcomed. But some recent research by Francesca Tripodi casts doubt on that assumption. [...] It shouldn’t surprise us that the digital revolution hasn’t changed this [tendency to subsume women's achievements]. There is no technological fix for sexism: the problem is political, and the solution must be too.

I have no question to ask, but offer this as a potential resource - both Cameron's commentary, and a pointer to the weighty tome. --Carbon Caryatid (talk) 09:10, 3 September 2021 (UTC)


 * Mentioned in Deborah Cameron's blog post as needing work:
 * Ann Eliza Worcester Robertson - not in WP (Q106641549)
 * E. Adelaide Hahn - WP entry says nothing about her actual contribution in linguistics, while making insulting mention of irrelevant personal characteristics
 * Alice Kober - WP entry insulting (following Margalit Fox's New York Times obituary)
 * Lucy Shepard Freeland / L. S. Freeland / Nancy Freeland / Nancy de Angulo - no WP entry, but full coverage of an 'erratic genius' husband (who actually harmed her career)
 * Have stubbed now. Dsp13 (talk) 11:31, 4 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Barbara M. H. Strang / Barbara Strang - sparse WP entry, misleading to call her professorship a 'novel appointment' (though that is following John D. Haigh in ODNB, which comments that this was 'the first chair of its kind in England, just as she was one of the first women to hold such a post')


 * Mentioned in the opening (unnumbered) chapter of Women in the History of Linguistics, and presumably worth review / content creation:
 * Johanna Corleva (1698-1752) (Q19756224)
 * Marguerite Buffet
 * Carolina Michaëlis de Vasconcelos / Carolina Michaëlis de Vasconcellos / Karoline Wilhelma Michaëlis de Vasconcelos / Karoline Wilhelma Michaëlis de Vasconcellos
 * Ban Zhao / Bān Zhāo
 * Anna Maria van Schurman
 * Marie Le Jars de Gournay
 * Bathsua Makin
 * Elizabeth Elstob
 * Francisca de Chantal Álvares (1742-post 1800)
 * Julie Heins (1822-1902)
 * Clementina Scagliarini
 * Emma Widmer-Gotelli
 * Hester Piozzi
 * Carolina Coronedi Berti (1820-1911)
 * Margrethe Thiele (1868-1928)
 * Luisa Lacal de Bracho
 * María Goyri
 * Anne Dacier
 * Louise Gottsched (1713-1762)
 * Maddalena Manfredi (1673-1744)
 * Teresa Manfredi (1679-1767)
 * Teresa Zanotti (1693-1732)
 * Angiola Zanotti (1703-1735)
 * Wakamatsu Shizuko / Matsukawa Kashi
 * Adele Marion Fielde
 * Ella Cara Deloria
 * Daisy Bates
 * Vaijayanti
 * Lucy Catherine Lloyd / Lucy Lloyd
 * Carobeth Tucker Laird / Carobeth Tucker / Carobeth Laird
 * Mary Haas
 * Klara Collitz / Klara H. Collitz (1863-1944)
 * Cinie Louw (1872-1935)
 * Elizabeth Catherine Carmichael / Ella Carmichael (1870-1928)
 * Valborg Olander
 * Chiri Yukie
 * Caterina Franchesci Ferrucci (1803-1887)
 * Elisabeth Jacobsen / Lis Jacobsen
 * Dsp13 (talk) 15:27, 3 September 2021 (UTC)
 * I have a copy of Riddle of the Labyrinth, and I did have in my head that the article on Alice Kober could do with some work – maybe I should take this as an incentive to see if there are any easy gains to be made there! Caeciliusinhorto-public (talk) 15:33, 3 September 2021 (UTC)
 * , thank you so much for this work list and especially the details of where various claims originated. Hoping we can improve without departing arbitrarily from sources. Innisfree987 (talk) 15:48, 3 September 2021 (UTC)
 * I have updated the crowd-sourced Linguistics red list from these names: WP:WikiProject_Women_in_Red/Linguistics. Innisfree987 (talk) 16:00, 3 September 2021 (UTC)
 * , Most already had Wikidata entries, but I went ahead and created the remaining ones for this list. Several have non-English language Wikipedia articles. TJMSmith (talk) 17:15, 3 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Great, thank you ! Innisfree987 (talk) 17:41, 3 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Ah and perhaps this is implicit in Dsp’s ready access to the book, but I’m delighted to see that Women in the History of Linguistics is available to anyone with the Wikipedia Library bundle, by selecting Oxford Scholarship Online database and searching the book’s title. Innisfree987 (talk) 16:19, 3 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Great, thank you ! Innisfree987 (talk) 17:41, 3 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Ah and perhaps this is implicit in Dsp’s ready access to the book, but I’m delighted to see that Women in the History of Linguistics is available to anyone with the Wikipedia Library bundle, by selecting Oxford Scholarship Online database and searching the book’s title. Innisfree987 (talk) 16:19, 3 September 2021 (UTC)


 * , I don't even believe politics can fix this either. It's deeper than political. It is a heart issue among the human species. It is deeply personal and only a person can choose to be sexist, can choose to be racist and can choose to have any kind of hatred or ill will directed at other humans. They can choose to live their life in anger or choose not to. It is always a personal choice and because of that it can not be legislated, adjudicated or forced out of the hearts of those who choose to connect with it. All we can do is fight it where we are able and choose to live as examples of the opposite: kindness, love and acceptance. -- A Rose Wolf  15:38, 3 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Before assuming that lack of coverage of women in a particular field is due to malicious sexism, deliberate neglect etc etc, it is necessary as a first step to try to check that the situation for male equivalents is actually different, otherwise such speculations are worthless. Very often the situation for the men is just the same; we don't have bios for most academics of some distinction, even American ones . And "WP entry says nothing about her actual contribution in..." is probably true of the majority of our bios of academics of both sexes, unfortunately. As for "making insulting mention of irrelevant personal characteristics", these are picked up from the obituary in a specialized journal - perhaps blame the author of that. Tripodi's research doesn't really bear on this issue, and has statistical problems that the May issue of The Signpost analysed very well.  A clear majority of the "opening chapter" list do have bios already, which maybe isn't too bad.  Johnbod (talk) 02:56, 4 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Whatever the situation in regard to bios of men, when we hear of specific problems in regard to women, we should of course look into them and make any justifiable corrections. As most of those who are still red-linked are probably known for their publications, they look like good candidates for our current focus on writers. Thank you for bringing this to our attention and  for preparing the lists.

African women’s football teams
I was going through the GAR requests at WP:GAR and there are a few for African women’s football teams. The main editor of these articles is no longer here so I was interested if anyone from a related project might be interested in picking them up. They basically need updating as the last substantial verifiable edits were in 2012. There are issues with uncited statements and other general fixes needed too. The ones with GA requests are Rwanda women's national football team, Burundi women's national football team and Central African Republic women's national football team. There are other articles like Gambia women's national football team, Madagascar women's national football team  etc (see Category:African women's national association football teams) that have similar issues. I don’t think it would take much effort to update these as they don’t seem to play a lot of games. The issue is finding sources. It would be a shame to delist them so hoping someone is keen to have a look at them. Aircorn (talk) 23:09, 31 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Maybe would be interested in helping out here.--Ipigott (talk) 09:36, 1 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Pinging, , , to see if they might be able to assist as well. Thanks for letting me know. Hmlarson (talk) 18:24, 1 September 2021 (UTC)
 * I can try helping out, but I'm currently finishing up exams period, and then it's holidays, and in general a million things are going on in life hehe. --SuperJew (talk) 21:09, 1 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks,, for this helpful response.--Ipigott (talk) 08:55, 2 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Sure! I would be glad to help out. I have worked on the Ghana women's national football team I think that can be reassessed because its now beyond a start article but rating still stands at start. The issue about the articles at the moment are the records. The cap appearances, top scorers, captains. I would have a look at them and see how to help. Ampimd (talk) 14:25, 2 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the ping. FWIW Laura Hale who created these articles was one of my favourite editors. I remember she knocked them all out in a few days which I thought was astonishing! I think later on she was basically hounded out by a motley collection of neckbeards and incels. We need to find some way to keep hold of our most talented editors at the expense of the mediocrities who have nothing positive to offer the project. Bring back Daz Sampson (talk) 12:36, 4 September 2021 (UTC)

Women in photography
This looks interesting: https://hundredheroines.org/ Pam  D  08:49, 5 September 2021 (UTC)


 * Yes,, this certainly seems to deserve attention although looking at the As, with a few exceptions, those from the "past" who have bios on Hundred Heroines generally seem to be well documented on Wikipedia. A few of the "present" ones have articles while others appear at first sight to be notable enough for inclusion, e.g. who would also qualify under our Latin-American focus.--Ipigott (talk) 10:34, 5 September 2021 (UTC)

70 Pacific women - one to watch out for!
Hello all! Looking for something else, I came across this campaign which celebrates 70 years of the Pacific Community by selecting (& I hope publishing a list of) 70 Pacific women who are role models! Lajmmoore (talk) 07:16, 7 September 2021 (UTC)

Notable American Women, 1607–1950
For those who had fun creating redlists of the missing names in the 25 thousand entry Dictionary of Women Worldwide, you can help out with the five volume Notable American Women, 1607–1950. Redlist in process here:  Notable American Women. Good news, most of the names so far are blue! You can help out by correcting typos, creating redirects to match redlinks to articles, etc.  Gamaliel  ( talk ) 02:28, 7 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Playing my song! Is it helpful to do some formatting (I notice some occupational categories are showing up as redlinks)? Innisfree987 (talk) 02:45, 7 September 2021 (UTC)
 * I used OpenRefine to add brackets to the whole list and forgot to filter out the section headers. Gamaliel  ( talk ) 03:00, 7 September 2021 (UTC)
 * No problemo, I’ll help convert to subheds. Innisfree987 (talk) 03:13, 7 September 2021 (UTC)
 * some of the redlinks look like OCR errors. Should those just be corrected in the list? Dsp13 (talk) 11:33, 7 September 2021 (UTC)
 * yes, please!  Gamaliel  ( talk ) 14:56, 7 September 2021 (UTC)

Adding Dante's women to Wikipedia
The women who appear in Dante’s ‘Divine Comedy’ are finally getting their due, 700 years later. Interesting article by on how students at Wellesley College are being encouraged to include articles about women in connection with Dante's Divine Comedy.--Ipigott (talk) 15:42, 7 September 2021 (UTC)

Courtauld and statues of women
"Jessica Barker argues that we should rediscover overlooked sculptures of women. " BBC recording at, spotted at , might be of interest here. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 17:54, 25 August 2021 (UTC)
 * She's a specialist in English tomb monuments. Very few of these indeed have their own articles (for either gender), and sourcing online would usually be tricky. Most are paired with the husband. Additions to our poor coverage of the general topic, at Tomb effigy and elsewhere, would be the most useful response, I expect. Outdoor portrait statues in the English-speaking countries are pretty well-covered, I'd have thought. Johnbod (talk) 15:33, 27 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Just a comment on the irony of this. Women's studies first started with a group of academics who set out to identify women and their activities as depicted in famous paintings with the logic that if someone took the time to preserve the images they must have some significance to societal development. Surely that same logic applies sculpture, though as Johnbod points out it might be difficult to source. SusunW (talk) 18:32, 27 August 2021 (UTC)
 * It's news to me that was how women's studies started, but whatever. Not sure how you take the time to preserve a painting either. In the case of tomb monuments they are the women of the nobility and gentry (typically only those who had married and produced heirs), generally shown lying flat on their backs wearing their best clothes. Useful for fashion history, but not much for "activities". But, as I said, a topical approach to the subject would be good. Johnbod (talk) 03:39, 28 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Just happened to hear this on the BBC this morning. One of those she discussed in some detail was Alice Chaucer, Duchess of Suffolk and her sculpted monument which she was able to pay for herself. Barker's recent book Stone Fidelity (Boydell, 2020) looks like interesting reading. She pointed out that only 80 of the UK's public sculptures of people are of women while some 400 are of men. (Rather like Wikipedia, n'est-ce pas?) Most of the country's sculptures of women are however not public as they are in churches. It certainly looks as if this could be an interesting new avenue to explore.--Ipigott (talk) 10:11, 28 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Anyone good at coding? I imagined that we might have an app that would allow you to see on a map all the sculptures of women in the UK/wherever that SHOULD be there. With emerging augmented reality we could (soon?) create a viewer that showed what the world would look like once we have fixed history with every other stature being of a woman. I live in Jedburgh where the first woman scientist in the world (Mary Somerville) was born. No statue (sigh) Victuallers (talk) 10:05, 9 September 2021 (UTC)

Articles for deletion/Sheila Steele
I have no idea if this activist is notable or not, but her article is up for deletion if any project members are interested in commenting.4meter4 (talk) 20:54, 9 September 2021 (UTC)

Researcher asking for help: Are there archived red lists?
Hello everybody, let me first tell you, that I just got to know about WiR and I am amazed about what you guys are doing and how far you already got! I recently heard about it in a conference talk by Jess Wade, where she told the story of Gladys West got her wikipage and finally got the credit she deserved.

Now, I am a researcher in social sciences myself and this story got me thinking: Is this `just' a really cool anecdote or is there something going on here, i.e. is there a chance to measure the effect of WiR on female researcher recognition?

For that purpose I would need the old redlists, so I can identify the moment when a particular individual turned from `red to blue'. If I had this, I could try to make before/after comparisons e.g. google search queries, news media coverage, citations etc. Similar women still `in red' at the time could serve as a control group. (I could even try to restrict the control group to women who eventually turn blue some time later and try to extract variables from their wiki pages to make sure I only match the most similar control to each woman - wikipedia is just fantastic!).

Ok, so much for the pitch - here are my questions:

i. Do you know whether the outdated redlists are archived somewhere, so I could download them? Or are they just overwritten by the bot?

ii. If the old lists are gone, I could still try to extract the redlists directly from wikidata. But for that I would need to run the queries on an archived version where the WiR are not yet turned to blue, right? Do you know how to do that? Do I need to download the wiki data dumps? Where can I find archived data dumps?

iii. Is there maybe an easier way to do it? Each data dump is about 50GB large after extracting, so if I could avoid downloading all dumps since 2015 that would be great.

Maybe it has become obvious, but I must acknowledge that I am completely new to wikipedia and all this, so please bear with me if I am asking obvious things or if I am violating etiquette. -- Aaaasen (talk) 08:55, 8 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Use the 'View history' tab at the top-right when you're viewing a redlist, and you can see the different versions of it as generated by the bot since it was first set up, to see a specific version you click on the date that the edit was made. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 09:45, 8 September 2021 (UTC)


 * Alright, that is exactly what I need! Thank you very much! Aaaasen (talk) 11:07, 8 September 2021 (UTC)


 * It's great to see you intend to undertake research on our use of redlists. If you let us know exactly what you have in mind and why you think redlists rather than other statistics are of prime importance, we might be able to help you along. As you may have noticed, there are various kinds of redlist, those that are based on Wikidata and those we call "crowd-sourced" which are compiled by editors. There are also lists based on biographical dictionaries, etc. You may also find it useful to see how statistics on women's biographies have evolved over the years. If so, have a look at Humaniki, WDCM and Denelezh. You may also be interested in other related research papers which you'll find on the WiR research page. Please let me know if I can be of any further assistance.--Ipigott (talk) 15:28, 8 September 2021 (UTC)


 * Thank you for your reply and the links/ressources provided, I will check them out! I also appreciate your offer to assist, I will surely get back to you once I know enough to ask useful questions! Aaaasen (talk) 12:06, 9 September 2021 (UTC)


 * In the meantime, it would be useful if you could include a few works about your interests on your user page.--Ipigott (talk) 12:09, 9 September 2021 (UTC)


 * Alright, thank you for the hint! Aaaasen (talk) 08:00, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

Articles for deletion/Sadia Sadia
Project members may wish to comment.4meter4 (talk) 20:04, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

Articles_for_deletion/Arushi_Nishank
Another article on a woman up for deletion. Project members may wish to comment.4meter4 (talk) 00:13, 11 September 2021 (UTC)

Woman in Red
The Matrix 4 trailer is out and I was surprised to see the Woman in Red was missing. I have also added Mouse, who wrote her code according to The Matrix.

Avindra talk 07:02, 11 September 2021 (UTC)

Lotte Bailyn photo
I recently created an article for Lotte Bailyn. Any chance there is an available photo of her somewhere? Thriley (talk) 23:11, 4 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Sorry to say I could find only copyrighted images (I did find a CC-licensed video of her husband, whose bio was not illustrated either.) That said I feel like there are some Internet Archive wizards with tricks of their sleeve I haven’t learned yet, so maybe one will yet be found? Innisfree987 (talk) 19:56, 5 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Thank you for looking! I’m sure there’s something out there. I’ll keep looking myself, but I expect the wizards will come through at some point. Thriley (talk) 03:54, 6 September 2021 (UTC)
 * If you get time then email MIT Sloan School of Management. IMO its bonkers that universities copyright the pictures of their leading figures. I cannot imagine them enforcing this restriction, it just constrains the law abiding Victuallers (talk) 08:12, 11 September 2021 (UTC)

Question about notability criteria and patents and scientific papers
Hi all

I'm exploring helping WIPO (UN World Intellectual Property Organization) import some data into Wikidata including names of people with most patents and people with the most cited patents. I want this information to be useful for Women in Red to identify people who could have Wikipedia articles. Could someone who is more knowledgable than me tell me if patents (legal documents published by government agencies) and scientific papers published in journals written authored by the person help towards notability? And if yes how much?

Thanks very much John Cummings (talk) 14:06, 3 September 2021 (UTC)
 * An academic paper can help demonstrate notability per WP:SCHOLAR, if that paper "has had a significant impact in their scholarly discipline, broadly construed". If you can show that a paper that a particular person has written has been "highly cited", that counts towards notability.
 * As far as I know, there's no guideline which says that the same is true of patents; the only thing I can find on patents in wikipedia space is WP:PATENTS, which notes that patent authorities "do not fact-check, edit or endorse any material in the patent application". As far as I can tell, there's no specific notability guideline for inventors – they need to get by on WP:GNG or WP:ANYBIO, and I don't think that their patents are likely to count significantly towards either. Caeciliusinhorto-public (talk) 14:34, 3 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Hi thanks, this is extremely helpful and will allow us to import more relevant people into Wikidata for Women in Red. Any other thoughts very welcome. John Cummings (talk) 14:53, 3 September 2021 (UTC)
 * A patent is merely a "proof of existence" primary source, thus of no value for demonstrating notability. Secondary sources that discuss the patent or patent holder in significant depth are more useful. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 11:44, 4 September 2021 (UTC)
 * I suggest you also bring this up on the talk page of WikiProject Women scientists. I seem to remember quite a few of our bios of women in science and engineering refer to their patents. In addition to WIPO (e.g. Gender Gap in Innovation Closing, But Progress is Slow), you might find it useful to look into the European Patent Office who have given special attention to women inventors on various occasions, including Women inventors] and Celebrating women inventors. There's also an interesting BBC article Why are so few women inventors named on patents?. It looks to me as if one of our future monthly priorities could be on "Women and patents". We also have Category:Patent holders and Category:American patent holders (although they are not well populated and don't list many women}. It might be useful to create Category:Women patent holders and see who deserves to be included.--Ipigott (talk) 12:10, 4 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Hi, super helpful, thanks very much, I'll update this when I've started to get lists ready, it should just all feed into the existing WD redlists but I'll see if there's anything new that needs adding in terms of profession or whatever. John Cummings (talk) 13:07, 4 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Please keep me informed of developments, . It's one of the areas I know quite well as when I was involved in early applications of machine translation, I came into close contact with the EPO and other patent offices in the EU. It would also be iworthwhile exploring the extent to which women work as patent agents, a key component in the application process. See for example Closing the Patenting Gender Gap Requires More Women Patent Attorneys.--Ipigott (talk) 14:48, 4 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks very much, will do. John Cummings (talk) 15:18, 4 September 2021 (UTC)
 * John, I have exchanged some emails on behalf of WIR with WIPO and surprisingly/refreshingly they are willing to use open licensing on their images when requested, but they were not willing to make a batch change. Email/Telegram me and I can give you more detail. Victuallers (talk) 08:09, 11 September 2021 (UTC)

Hi long time no see :) Yes I've also been working on it, recently got them to release a first batch of images here. Please do use them to encourage them to share more. Were there any you were after specifically? John Cummings (talk) 08:33, 11 September 2021 (UTC)
 * I had a lot of good releases from here, but they wanted a specific email listing each image we wanted. They were very friendly but I found other routes. I sent them flickrmail and got useful replies. Do thank them for the ones they released to me as "Victuallers1". Cheers Roger aka Victuallers (talk) 08:50, 11 September 2021 (UTC)

ITNRD candidate: painter Yolanda López
Painter Yolanda López died yesterday. I admit I am running on fumes here at the moment, but if someone(s) has the energy, she would be a great addition to ITN. I can definitely help if anyone needs assistance with the nomination at WP:ITN/C; I’m just not sure I’ll have the bandwidth for referencing the entry this week. (That obit alone is quite comprehensive though, and should go a long way, so maybe…) Innisfree987 (talk) 02:47, 5 September 2021 (UTC)
 * I've moved her to the correct title (with accent) and added her to the list of surname-holders at López. Pam  D  05:28, 5 September 2021 (UTC)
 * (piling on) and I've added her picture. Sadly (see above) this is one of the routes for getting your picture on Wikipedia Victuallers (talk) 08:34, 11 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Thank you! A successful nomination, thanks especially to the efforts of editor Cedar777 who did quite a lot of work to bring the entry up to standard. Innisfree987 (talk) 09:37, 11 September 2021 (UTC)

Lady Rhondda's dinner guests
This fascinating website, unravelling the identities and stories of the guests at a 1933 dinner, including "28 gentlemen ... alongside almost 100 women, amongst them many of the pioneering women of the early 20th century" in honour of Lady Rhondda, may be useful. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:47, 12 September 2021 (UTC)

Articles for deletion/Bianca de la Garza
Project members may wish to comment.4meter4 (talk) 22:05, 11 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the heads up. But, you know, we have another page WikiProject Deletion sorting/Women where such AfDs can be listed, and where people who wish to comment on AfDs on women can find those AfDs and comment on them. It is not necessary to turn this talk page into a duplicate of that deletion sorting list. And despite the neutral wording of your announcements here, regularly announcing such AfDs at a board known to have the purpose of increasing Wikipedia's coverage of women could be seen as falling afoul of WP:CANVASS, and especially the bullet point about vote-banking in WP:CANVASS. —David Eppstein (talk) 22:11, 11 September 2021 (UTC)
 * @4meter4. Thank you for the alert. After examining the sources I have voted to Delete. Xxanthippe (talk) 10:52, 12 September 2021 (UTC).
 * Neutral notifications of AFD discussions to interested wiki projects is clearly not considered canvassing per APPNOTE which states: "'An editor who may wish to draw a wider range of informed, but uninvolved, editors to a discussion can place a message at any of the following: The talk page or noticeboard of one or more WikiProjects or other Wikipedia collaborations which may have interest in the topic under discussion.'"
 * This project's interest is in women; so any AFD notification related to women placed here is appropriate under policy. Arguing that this is somehow canvassing is frankly the opposite of policy as written, and saying otherwise is basically arguing that WP:WikiProject Women in Red is somehow excluded from the rights granted to other wikiprojects under wikipedia:APPNOTE. That's a biased view which is essentially arguing that policy should not be applied the same to this project as to others. That's not cool. That said, thank you for making me aware of the project’s other page on AFDs.4meter4 (talk) 11:57, 12 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Neutral notifications to WikiProjects are certainly covered by WP:APPNOTE, but I don't see how notifying some apparently random AfDs here is that helpful compared to WikiProject Deletion sorting/Women (which I encourage everyone to watch). Why should some of these be notified here, and not all of them? That would make sense if the articles were part of a recent Women in Red event, for example. MarioGom (talk) 12:46, 12 September 2021 (UTC)
 * I wasn’t aware of the deletion sorting page until this conversation, but as for the one’s I posted, I simply felt the project members could assist in aiding the discussions without any particular agenda. Regardless, this page is seen by more editors and is therefore more likely to draw input at AFD/ assistance in locating RS then the alternative page which probably isn’t viewed by all that many project members. 4meter4 (talk) 13:15, 12 September 2021 (UTC)
 * There's also WikiProject Women in Red/Article alerts, updated daily, which lists AfDs and PRODs, as well as a few other groupings. Also WikiProject Women/Article alerts, which largely overlaps but isn't identical. Both are updated daily. Pam  D  15:33, 12 September 2021 (UTC)

Women Editors
This article listed | 10 Women to Watch Meet these news publishing leaders driving the industry forward .I have created This article listed 12 Of India's Most Powerful Female Editors.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 00:26, 12 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Danielle Belton editor of HuffPost needs expansion
 * Monica Richardson the first Afro American  editor in 135 years of Miami Herald needs expansion
 * Daisy Veerasingham also needs expansion ,
 * Fanny Miller  founder of  El Latino San Diego.
 * Hi, I had a go at expanding the first article on the list earlier. It seems that the last article doesn't exist.  Didn't you create it in the end or has it been speedied?  RicDod (talk) 16:35, 12 September 2021 (UTC)
 * I did not create the last one. Thanks a lot.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 10:35, 13 September 2021 (UTC)

2021 Women's March
Not a biography, but project members may be interested in watchlisting or improving 2021 Women's March. Thanks! --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 22:02, 13 September 2021 (UTC)

Nancy Unger
I started an entry on Nancy Unger who chairs the history department at the Santa Clara University and wrote books on American women environmentalists and a couple of other activists including Belle La Follette. She also seems to be a bit of an activist or at least politically active herself. I thought she might be of interest here and certainly there's more on her and her work to cover. Thanks. FloridaArmy (talk) 01:12, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

Woodrow Wilson
I didn't see the issue of women's suffrage and women's rights isn't noted much (is it mentioned at all?) in this entry which seems strange to me. Wilson's record as a racist and segregationist is also whitewashed. As far as women's issue some of the history is covered in the article on his re-election. It seems that this important aspect of his and U.S. history deserves appropriate coverage. Noting here in case there's interest in fixing the problem. FloridaArmy (talk) 01:27, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

MacKenzie v. Hare
This U.S. Supreme Court case, which I just redirected, should have its own entry if anyone is interested. FloridaArmy (talk) 02:02, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

Israli paralympic female competitor Michal Escapa (IPC profile) is also a swimmer?
How many chances are there that another woman named Escapa has always competed in Tokyo 1964 but for Italy and winning two medals in swimming? --Kasper2006 (talk) 11:00, 14 September 2021 (UTC)