Talk:2007–08 Leeds United F.C. season

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Transfer fee[edit]

Maybe it will better use k instead of ,000. Like ₤500k instead of ₤500,000.--ClaudioMB 02:44, 5 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Events[edit]

The event list is a good idea. Nice! Other articles could also used it. I'll create a template for events, then all articles will have the same look. --ClaudioMB 02:48, 5 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Moving from[edit]

I didn't get those 3 players moving from Leeds United A.F.C. What that means? They were from the Youth system? If so, you should enter YS instead of the club itself. --ClaudioMB 02:57, 5 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Basically, these three players played for Leeds last season and up til June 2007 had contracts with Leeds. They are all still playing with Leeds on trial and are expected to sign new contacts (they could not sign before due to the transfer embargo on Leeds (administration business) in the next week. --T1v37r 08:45, 5 August 2007 (GMT)
I believe it's not consider a transfer when a player's contract ends and he signs another one. A player need to come from another club to be consider a transfer, or at least comes from the youth system and be a new regular player in the first team squad. So, if they where Leeds players last season and still there, you could just take them from the transfer list. --ClaudioMB 14:32, 5 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

End column[edit]

What the — means in the Squad Information's End column? --ClaudioMB 22:58, 9 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

They basically mean "None", In the "Squad information" section it means no squad number is assigned, in the "Transfers In" section it means no transfer fee. Chappy TC 12:00, 10 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Ok. But the Squad Information's End column is for the year when the players contract ends. So, what the — means in that column? No contract ending? There are 2 players with a — in their End column: Madden and Delph. --ClaudioMB 12:31, 10 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delph has been assigned a squad number, is legally at the club and can play at the club, however has not yet signed a professional contract as far as the fans know so we cannot put an end date if he hasn't signed a contract. --t1v37r 09:08, 26 August 2007 (GMT)
Maybe it could be used "n/a" instead and explain on notes "Contract not sign yet" with a link to the source.--ClaudioMB 03:34, 28 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Offers[edit]

What's "1p in the pound", "11.2p in the pound" etc.? Conscious 04:53, 20 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

For every pound of debt owed 1p or 11.2p (dependant on which offer) would be re-payed to the creditor. Chappy TC 11:29, 20 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Championship name[edit]

I'd like to propose to change from Coca-Cola Football League 1 to Football League One or League One. I believe is a standard in Wikipedia to use only the original name, as you can see in its article Football League One. --ClaudioMB 04:46, 22 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yup do it, should be sticking to standards used throughout the rest of wikipedia. Chappy TC 17:45, 22 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Notes on Squad information[edit]

Just a suggestion: maybe instead of place a source in the players' notes, the players' article could be improved using that source. Considering Squad information uses players' articles as a source, then it will not be necessary place the source in the notes column (it's easy to readers just click on the player's name). That way, the table will be more clear and when something out of ordinary needs a notes, it will not be lost among lots of notes.--ClaudioMB 03:42, 28 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This article shouldn't really be using Wikipedia as a source. If someone wrote a thesis/dissertation/essay and used only the thesis/dissertation/essay as a source for the facts it included then the author would fail. (That's just an example I know this isn't a thesis/dissertation/essay but the theory on references and sources is the same) Chappy God's own county TC 18:20, 28 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I understand your point, but all articles in Wikipedia must have a reliable source, so you could consider them as an indirectly source. Unfortunately, that's not guaranteed, so, when someone uses a Wikipedia's article as a source he/she should check if that article has a reliable source. Entering the source in the players' article will improve them and the Squad section will be cleaner. Anyway, this still just a suggestion. Regards. --ClaudioMB 18:34, 28 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
P.S. The analogy between Wikipedia as a whole and one single thesis/dissertation/essay is not good. It's possible compare one article of Wikipedia with a thesis/dissertation/essay but not the whole Wikipedia. So, as a thesis/dissertation/essay could use another thesis/dissertation/essay as source, a Wikipedia's article could use another one. A thesis/dissertation/essay could use a Wikipedia's article as source. As any source used, it must be checked, if not, your thesis/dissertation/essay or Wikipedia article will be unreliable. --ClaudioMB 18:49, 28 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I know it isn't the greatest analogy, but a thesis was the largest thing I could think of quickly that uses sources. I was going to give the example of the Encyclopædia Britannica but then it's ages since I actually looked at it and I couldn't remember if it used sources. I am sure however that the writers would ensure that they didn't use other articles contained in the encyclopaedia as a source. The big point about wikipedia is that if a source is available for the information on the other page then the source not the article should be used here, if not then the information isn't the most reliable and maybe shouldn't be in the article. Chappy TC 17:52, 31 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
For me it's ok if you don't want to use another Wikipedia article as a source. But, I don't think there is a rule forbidding a Wikipedia article using another Wikipedia article. Anyway, my goal here is not tell how editors should or shouldn't write, but helping them to focus on the information rather than code and keep the articles easy to read. So, what about another column for source and keep Notes column for extra information? Regards. --ClaudioMB 23:34, 4 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
It's not the best idea to use wikipedia. A good example would be someone putting person opinion or rumour on a page and referencing it on another, e.g. I could put "is an Idiot" on Alex Ferguson's page and then reference this on the unspeakable of club's page as fact. Due to wikipedia's nature of anyone and everyone can edit and the possibility for personal opinion or rumour being added, one article should not reference another as a source. On the extra column for source and notes, I can't say I see the point at least for the english game as there's no limitations on the players that would require a large amount of space, plus I think the reference is a type of note. (The only real note I can think of for the "Squad information" section except a source is "cup tied"). Chappy God's Own Country TC 11:21, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I think you are missing the first Wikipedia pillar (WP:5) that any information in Wikipedia must have a source (WP:SOURCE). I believe anyone could delete any information without a reliable source and if someone else wants that information back, he/she must find one. As an editor, when I use an information from other Wikipedia article, I make sure that information has a reliable source (sometimes, I enter it myself). Anyone who doesn't do that, or uses other article's information knowing that information has no source, is doing a horrible work as editor, and other people will complain or remove that information (like the "is an Idiot" on Alex Ferguson's page example). However, like here in this article, using the original source is even better. Anyway, I'm not trying to change any information here, just trying to improve the templates so you and other editors could make better use of them. About the Notes column, it just doesn't look right a column with mostly reference links with a "Notes" title. Other articles are using the Notes column to inform the player was on loan for some time in the past, has left the club after season started, also plays in other position, is injured and other things (example). How about enter a ref number in the specific information that the reference is about? For example, in End column: 2009[1]. Regards.--ClaudioMB 00:26, 6 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The first part proved my original point that wikipedia can't be used as a source for itself. If the other article is sourced then the exterior article on another site can be used as a source on this site and if the article isn't sourced then the information is unreliable so shouldn't be presented as fact with the other article as a source on this page. My point with the fergusson article was to provide an extreme example of the possibility of non-fact appearing on one article and being referenced as fact in another. With regards to using something such as 2009[1] would the cite web work inside the squad information template? Chappy God's Own Country TC 11:17, 6 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The Since and End columns are simple text. Anything you enter there should work. The only problem is width. The column have a set width and if goes much more the table could not fit in a 1024 width setting. Since cite web needs a title, I think it won't fit (unless the title is a single "."). How about enter like 2007, that works well and looks good? --ClaudioMB 21:14, 6 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Citeweb only shows something such as a [1] where it is placed, the title along with all other information only appears in the references section of the page, see all the reference numbers in the events section of this article. With this in mind, if its only the width of the text displayed that affects it then I wouldn't think that at most 5 characters would affect it. Chappy God's Own Country TC 22:07, 6 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
If you use <ref> </ref>, like in the events, it will be not a problem. The width won't be a issue. --ClaudioMB 23:36, 6 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Standard date format[edit]

This discussion is grouped here with other similar articles. Please, participate. Regards. --ClaudioMB 01:23, 9 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

most frequent starts[edit]

i beleive david prutton has been used on the right, and jon douglas in the centre of midfield, contrary to what this column says —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.188.213.214 (talk) 11:37, 10 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Manual of Style for club season articles[edit]

There is a discussion about Manual of Style for club season articles that could after this article, you could participate here.--ClaudioMB 16:33, 12 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Vice-captain[edit]

Please note, that I have changed the vice-captain from Shaun Derry to Jonathan Douglas as this link from BBC Sport confirms this. --t1v37r 17:33, 20 December 2007 (GMT)

I'm afraid they've got it wrong. The official site lists him in articles as a "Stand-in Skipper" and not vice-captain. See : here, here and here. ChappyTC 09:55, 23 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Got the programme from last night's (12 Feb. 2008) match against Forest. It clearly states (page 9) that Thompson is the club captain, Douglas is vice-captain, Hughes is the second vice-captain. Hence, I have put that fact on the page. t1v37r 09:27, 13 February 2008 (GMT)

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Move discussion in progress[edit]

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