Talk:2013–14 Arsenal F.C. season

A fact from 2013–14 Arsenal F.C. season appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 5 April 2013 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that it is hoped that Arsenal's game against Indonesia, to be played as a warm up match for Arsenal's 2013–14 season, will help ease an internal dispute between the PSSI and KPSI?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2013/April. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/2013–14 Arsenal F.C. season.

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Orphaned references in 2013–14 Arsenal F.C. season[edit]

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of 2013–14 Arsenal F.C. season's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "Campbell loan":

From 2012–13 Arsenal F.C. season: "Joel Campbell joins Real Betis on loan". Arsenal F.C. 11 July 2012. Retrieved 11 July 2012.
From 2011–12 Arsenal F.C. season: "Joel Campbell arrives ready!" (in French). FC Lorient. 31 August 2011. Retrieved 31 August 2011.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 19:03, 27 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

League table[edit]

Hi.

I would like to get everyones opinion on the league table.

Currently this article uses an own table for the teams nearest Arsenal that has to be manually updated all the time. My idea is to use the template (shown below) that many of the other teams use. Then it is enough someone on all pages change it and it will change here to. Also it will make all the articles look more alike. What does everyone think?

Pos	Team v t e	Pld	W	D	L	GF	GA	GD	Pts	Qualification or relegation
2	Liverpool	38	26	6	6	101	50	+51	84	Qualification for the Champions League group stage
3	Chelsea	38	25	7	6	71	27	+44	82	Qualification for the Champions League group stage
4	Arsenal	38	24	7	7	68	41	+27	79	Qualification for the Champions League play-off round
5	Everton	38	21	9	8	61	39	+22	72	Qualification for the Europa League group stage
6	Tottenham Hotspur	38	21	6	11	55	51	+4	69	Qualification for the Europa League play-off round^[a]

Source: Barclays Premier League
Rules for classification: 1) Points; 2) Goal difference; 3) Goals scored; 4) Play-offs (only if needed to decide champion, teams for relegation or teams for UEFA competitions).^[1]
Notes:

^ Since the winners of 2013–14 Football League Cup (Manchester City) qualified for the Champions League, the spot awarded to them (Europa League play-off round) was passed to the 6th-placed team.

I think it would be good to use this table.QED237 (talk) 20:19, 15 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The other alternative is

{{Fb cl header |qr-width=320}}	
{{Fb cl2 team |p=1 |t=[[Arsenal F.C.|Arsenal]]              |w=0 |d=0 |l=0 |gf=0 |ga=0 |bc=#D0F0C0 }}	
{{Fb cl3 qr |rows=3|competition=[[2014–15 UEFA Champions League group stage]]}}	
{{Fb cl2 team |p=2 |t=[[Aston Villa F.C.|Aston Villa]]      |w=0 |d=0 |l=0 |gf=0 |ga=0 |bc=#D0F0C0}}	
{{Fb cl2 team |p=3 |t=[[Cardiff City F.C.|Cardiff City]]    |w=0 |d=0 |l=0 |gf=0 |ga=0 |bc=#D0F0C0}}	
{{Fb cl2 team |p=4 |t=[[Chelsea F.C.|Chelsea]]              |w=0 |d=0 |l=0 |gf=0 |ga=0 |bc=#E8FFD8}}	
{{Fb cl3 qr |rows=1|competition=[[2014–15 UEFA Champions League#Play-off round|2014–15 UEFA Champions League play-off round]]}}	
{{Fb cl2 team |p=5|t=[[Crystal Palace F.C.|Crystal Palace]] |w=0 |d=0 |l=0 |gf=0 |ga=0 |bc=#BBEBFF}}	
{{Fb cl3 qr |rows=1|competition=[[2014–15 UEFA Europa League#Play-off round|2014–15 UEFA Europa League play-off round]]}}	
{{Fb cl footer|u=19 July 2013|s=[http://www.premierleague.com/page/LeagueTables/0,,12306,00.html Barclays Premier League]|date=June 2013}}

QED237 (talk) 20:21, 15 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

For artistic appeal I say we use the second option' 2.221.89.155 (talk) 20:28, 15 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

What do you mean about artistic appeal? That it looks better? We could always improve the template to look better. I think consistency with the other teams are better and the fact that someone always updates it imediately. QED237 (talk) 20:52, 15 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Well the template isn't being changed to look better and nor has it been for a long time now. Also, people in previous pages (mainly for the previous season (2012-13)) has been saying that the page includes too much information, whereas the current table only shows nearby teams which is better. I will personally update the table after each match if and when I see it hasn't already. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.221.89.155 (talk) 14:18, 21 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hi again.

We had/have a recent discussion at The Village Pump (feel free to join) where the editors modified the sandbox of {{2013–14 Premier League table/sandbox}} to have a truncated transclusion of the table for use on the pages for the current season of all the teams. This has also been informed at WT:FOOTY to get people to join the discussion at village pump. This template is then supposed to be used on all of the season articles. QED237 (talk) 12:53, 12 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

League Performance[edit]

The league performance table should be sourced, so that it's not WP:OR. I've added a source and renamed the section heading as there are NO ROUNDS in the Premier League. See - here

Please respect the Statto source provided. Thanks, JMHamo (talk) 14:51, 21 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Continued from the ANI thread[edit]

seeing as it's been closed.

I don't think there's any inherent advantage in getting stuff like league tables or positions from the Premier League site rather than a third-party source. If you're just after Arsenal's league position at the end of the day each of their matches was played, then Statto's Arsenal results page lists them clearly in a column without any complications.

In terms of stability, the Statto site has kept the same structure since it set up some years ago, whereas the Premier League site redesigns on a regular basis, doesn't employ permalinks (so when urls change, there's no redirect from the "old" urls) and drops content at will (they used to have a really useful and detailed player/club stats database, far more than just appearances and goals; it disappeared overnight). cheers, Struway2 (talk) 09:24, 22 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for continuing the discussion here Struway2. Why was the ANI closed? Anyway... I know this is the Arsenal 2013–14 season article talk page, but I would like to open the discussion wider to cover all 92 clubs in the English football league, if that's OK?

The 92 clubs that use historical league positions in their season articles, should I believe, all use the same Statto.com source for consistency, for the exact same reasons you gave above. For example, York City in League Two has listed Statto.com as the source in the Match Details. I don't see a reason not to use Statto.com for all 92 clubs, it's a WP:RS for sure. JMHamo (talk) 11:21, 22 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The ANI thread was closed because it had turned into a content discussion pure and simple, and as such belonged either at the talk page of the article in question, or if the question were broadened, at the project talk page. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 11:59, 22 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

We should take this back to WT:FOOTY then I guess? What do you think? It's not just about Arsenal. JMHamo (talk) 12:01, 22 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

CL group stage, standings table[edit]

I have opened a discussion at Talk:2013–14 Manchester City F.C. season#CL group stage, standings table QED237 (talk) 20:19, 19 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Live score[edit]

Hi. Based on Wikipedia policies and guidlines we should not provide livescores, based on WP:LIVESCORES and WT:FOOTY consensus here. Those editors keep adding this will have their edits considered disruptive and the editor may be blocked. Thank you. QED237 (talk) 19:49, 25 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think you should block people for being exuberant. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 08:04, 26 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Of course blocking people is not desirable and what anyone wants. However if an editor do not edit according to wikipedia policies and guidelines (and for example WP:LIVESCORES) I feel like they must be warned and If they already have several other warnings then report them to WP:AIV. I dont understand why doing something wrong, would not eventually mean getting blocked for a short while.QED237 (talk) 09:22, 26 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Just a minor note, LIVESCORES links to Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Snooker#Mid-match frame & match scores. What does snooker have to do with football scores? The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 09:57, 26 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I must admitt that I did not look what it links to, but on WT:FOOTY it is said that it also applies on football scores and it has the same point as the WT:FOOTY discussion. WP:NOTNEWS is perhaps a better better where live scoring fails "However, not all verifiable events are suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia.". It is all there on [[WT:FOOTY]. QED237 (talk) 10:48, 26 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

"League performance"[edit]

Hello, I'd like to open up a discussion, formally and respectfully challenging the use of league performance for the table formerly known as "results by round." Is not the league table also an indication of "league performance"? Or the results summary? Or even the matches themselves? By what logic does it seem fitting to call what is unequivocally the results by round section "league performance"? That doesn't even make sense. Italia2006 (talk) 14:30, 6 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I suggest we keep this discussion at one place on Liverpool Talk page were it started. QED237 (talk) 15:17, 6 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Transfermarkt[edit]

Transfermarkt is not a reliable source, since it is partly user edited. Please read:

And there are many more discussions if you need it. QED237 (talk) 17:20, 10 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Future fixtures[edit]

I have been reverting someone inserting text about upcoming fixtures, i.e. how tough they are and who Arsenal will meet. The copyright law says we can only mention one upcoming game so that is one reason for removing that text. Secondly we should not judge how tough the schedule are that is WP:POV and we should mention fact and not future WP:CRYSTAL. Please do not reinsert without discussion per WP:BRD or you may be blocked for edit-warring. QED237 (talk) 11:44, 8 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. it is POV to say how tough a fixture is and copyright prevents us from listing the PL fixtures. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 12:00, 8 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Results by matchday[edit]

I just wanted to let everyone now that is "result by MATCHDAY" and nothing else. Please follow the sources when editing or the page riskes getting blocked (just as 2013–14 Manchester City F.C. season was after these kind of edits). You might also get blocked yourselves for editing against a given source, so please stop it. Thank you. QED237 (talk) 13:14, 3 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

At the point when 23rd rounds have been played, Arsenal was the second with 52 points with Man City being the top of the league with 53 points. Arsenal went back to the top of the league after 24th round. The original source(http://www.statto.com/football/teams/arsenal/2013-2014/results) is wrong. The source with correct information is http://www.soccerassociation.com/0/1314/A20140128.htm. The information on this page atm is not correspond with 2013–14 Manchester City F.C. season article 'results by matchday' section which says Man City was at the top of the league after 23rd rounds. Someone please sort this out, as I'm not allowed to edit. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lovemps (talk • contribs) 06:21, 9 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Squad, Statistics, Transfers, and Loans sections[edit]

I have posted a discussion covering the Squad, Statistics, Transfers, and Loans sections on club seasonal pages over at WT:FOOTY. I would appreciate if you could provide your comments on the subject, and also contact other editors who you feel would have useful input. Kanoch (talk) 02:10, 28 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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^ "Premier League Handbook Season 2013/14" (PDF). Premier League. pp. 96–97. Archived from the original (PDF) on 22 January 2014. Retrieved 13 August 2013.

[table_note_res_ELPO0.47136622083903-1] Since the winners of 2013–14 Football League Cup (Manchester City) qualified for the Champions League, the spot awarded to them (Europa League play-off round) was passed to the 6th-placed team.

[2] "Premier League Handbook Season 2013/14" (PDF). Premier League. pp. 96–97. Archived from the original (PDF) on 22 January 2014. Retrieved 13 August 2013.

[a]

[1]