Talk:Adolph Kliebhan

This article was nominated for deletion on 21 November 2022. The result of the discussion was keep.

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"well-known bowler"[edit]

I struck the "well-known" qualifier for bowling. While there is a line in his 1962 obit describing him as a "prominent" bowler, it is unclear whether the brief obit had editorial independence or was prepared by the family. It's also unclear what is meant by a "prominent" bowler. Does that mean he was one of the better bowlers in his local league in Milwaukee? Or among his group of bowling buddies. I've searched Newspapers.com and have found ZERO coverage of him as a bowler other than the brief obit -- nothing to indicate he ever won a tournament, won any honors as a bowler, etc. Cbl62 (talk) 18:00, 22 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

My searches also find ZERO coverage of him as an official for either baseball or football. If he were an official for anything other than local high school or little-league games, his name would appear at least in box scores. I'm not seeing any such mentions as an official. Cbl62 (talk)

Cbl62, I am fine with your change. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 02:16, 23 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Inaccurate claim that he was Packers' first QB[edit]

The article has been edited to add the assertion that Kliebhan was "the Packers' first ever starting quarterback." This is demonstrably false. First of all, the 1921 season was not the first for the Packers, as the team played 22 games in 1919 and 1920, with others playing at the QB position. Second of all, he was not even the first starting QB during the 1921 season. It is asserted that he played QB on October 23, and the Packers played four other games prior to October 23 during the 1921 season. Cbl62 (talk) 18:26, 22 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I haven't been able to find the box score for the October 23 game, but a pregame "probable lineup (here) showed him as a backup at halfback. The whole notion of his being the Packers' first QB is quite dubious at best. Cbl62 (talk) 18:28, 22 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Also, List of Green Bay Packers starting quarterbacks states: "The team's first starting quarterback was Norm Barry." Cbl62 (talk) 18:31, 22 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I found the box score for the Oct 23, 1921 game: here. It does show Kliebhan (spelled Kliebhahn) at QB. Still doesn't appear to be the first starting QB for the reasons outlined above. Cbl62 (talk) 18:34, 22 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I edited the article to state, "In the team's first APFA game, on October 23, 1921, he was the starting quarterback ..." This is now accurate. Cbl62 (talk) 18:47, 22 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Cbl62 I think your interpretation of what was meant by "first starting QB" is right. I agree with your change. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 02:16, 23 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

More than one game?[edit]

Besides the October 23 game, Kliebhan also appeared in three early season non-APFA games:

September 25 as a backup at QB here
October 2 as a backup at fullback here
October 9 as a backup at right halfback here

Do these count in the NFL record books? Cbl62 (talk) 19:09, 22 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Cbl62, my guess is no, they don't. Maybe considered semi-pro games? « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 02:16, 23 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]