Talk:Al-Ma'mun al-Bata'ihi

Ma'mun Al-bataihi was a warrior vizir responsible for restoration of the Fatimid state after much loss of glory. Please do help by contributing. DistributorScientiae (talk) 13:30, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

References

Please borrow references from the other language Wikipedia.DistributorScientiae (talk) 20:46, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Al-Ma'mun al-Bata'ihi/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: Cplakidas (talk · contribs) 12:10, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

Reviewer: UndercoverClassicist (talk · contribs) 13:23, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

I know very little about this period (certainly much less than the nominator), so will focus on prose, MoS and so on, with content points where I can. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 13:23, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

• Is there any image at all that could be used to represent him -- I know portraits are unlikely, given the Islamic rules against them, but perhaps a signature or similar?
  • I have looked far and wide, unfortunately nothing that is uniquely representative of him. Constantine ✍ 20:14, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
• the all-powerful vizier: suggest being a little more specific: was the vizir actually omnipotent?
  • Not entirely ;) have rephrased it to 'the de facto ruler of the state'.
• carried out a number of tax reforms: suggest cutting a number of (it could hardly have been otherwise). If the number is quite big, suggest several or many.
  • Have removed it entirely as it is superfluous.
• Al-Bata'ihi also hunted down Nizari agents and sympathizers; the al-Hidaya al-Amiriyya, issued in 1122, rebuffed Nizari claims and affirmed the legitimacy of Musta'li Isma'ilism. : can we do anything in the lead to clarify a bit about who these people and what these beliefs are?
  • Added a brief explanation both in the lede and the main body.
• In the Levant, attempts to take the offensive against the Crusaders failed, with the loss of Tyre and a naval defeat at the hands of the Venetian Crusade.: I'd put a date on these.
  • Done.
• AH 478 (1085/6): you might consider clarifying this to "1085–1856 CE", as we're explicitly working between different calendars here.
  • Good point, added the CE and AH wherever the two dates are given.
• nisba of 'al-Bata'ihi': I'd italicise rather than using single quotes, given the ' midway through the word.
  • Done.
• Could we explain nisba -- something like epithet?
  • Done.
• Hyphenate rags-to-riches as a compound modifier.
  • Done.
• when he died in 1118, the funeral prayer was read by caliph al-Amir (r. 1101–1130).: I would cut the regnal dates here: they're only really useful when we don't know anything about the date except that it happened during someone's reign, but here we have a more precise one (1118).
  • Good point, done.
• ghulams: something odd has happened here: the s is not italicised and not part of the link.
  • This is deliberate, as this is an English plural of an Arabic word; the proper plural would be ghilman. I am indeed not sure whether I should not include the 's' in the italics, but then it would give the false impression that 'ghulams' is transliterated from the Arabic.
• al-Bata'ihi ordered a tahwil ('conversion') ... al-Bata'ihi ordered a new cadastral survey (rawk): for GA, I don't have a particularly strong feeling about whether we should give the Arabic and bracket the English, or vice-versa, but we should probably be consistent. Some reviewers would advise sticking to English as far as possible in the main sentence.
  • Except that cadastral survey is an English technical term, but 'conversion' is merely the exact translation of the Arabic technical term, for which I am not aware of an equivalent technical term in English.
• increased state income by 50,000 gold dinars: was that a lot? Can we have any idea of what it might have represented in real terms?
  • It was a hefty sum; I added a comparison, am on the lookout for something better though.
• the Jew Ibn al-Munajja: is his religion necessary or important here? Would strongly advise cutting or at the very least rephrasing so as not to use it as a noun in apposition, which can read as pejorative.
  • Notable in the sense that Jews and Christians played a far more important role in Fatimid administration than in other Muslim states, but you are right, here it doesn't really add much.
• The enterprise proved very costly, which led to the imprisonment of Ibn al-Munajja: passive voice seems odd here: presumably someone imprisoned him?
  • Added.
• caliph al-Amir: capitalise Caliph here.
  • Done.
• was also re-instituted, after almost a century where it had not been celebrated, as were : could cut where it had not been celebrated (you can't re-institute something that has been continuously celebrated)
  • Done.
• Fatimid-Ismai'ili: is this "Fatimid and Ismai'ili" or "that subset of Ismai'ili that was also Fatimid"? If the former, should be an endash.
  • The latter, especially as juxtaposed to Nizari Isma'ilism.
• al-Bata'ihi scored a major success: suggest rephrasing per MOS:IDIOM.
  • Done.
• al-Imad citation: hyphen in title should be an endash.
  • Done.
• Suggest adding a short description.
• Am I right that "Sayyida" is a title/honorific rather than a name? Suggest clarifying in a footnote if so.
• In note B, MOS:WORDSASWORDS would like e.g. al-Afdali either in double quotes or italics.

Image review

• All images have alt text and good captions.
• File:The story of Cairo (1906) (14782234955).jpg: licence checks out.
• File:Cairo, moschea di al-aqmar, 04.JPG: Egypt has freedom of panorama, so all OK here.
• File:Fatimid dinar - al-Amir bi-Ahkam Allah.jpg: technically speaking, needs a PD tag for the original work (the coin). I am honestly a little suspicious that it's genuinely the uploader's own work (it looks like an image used to display a coin on an auction website), but in the absence of a smoking gun I won't push this one.
  • Noting that this one isn't done yet. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 06:36, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

Source review

All sources appear to be reliable and are formatted consistently.

Spot checks

• Note 9D: checks out.
• Note 44: checks out.
• Note 33: to support "[the caliph] was a poor public speaker", the source has "he himself, despite his love for ceremonies, did not excel at this task [of preaching]". I would consider changing "public speaker" to "preacher": there are other reasons, other than a lack of eloquence, why someone might not be great at preaching.

@UndercoverClassicist: thanks for taking the time, I think I've dealt with most of the issues above. Constantine ✍ 20:14, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

• Brilliant -- source review done, just a few bits and pieces there and further up. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 06:36, 20 May 2024 (UTC)