Talk:Al-Walid I/GA1

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Reviewer: AhmadLX (talk · contribs) 16:11, 23 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I will review this. AhmadLX-)¯\_(ツ)_/¯) 16:11, 23 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Misc.

Holdover from the old version of the article. Removed. Al Ameer (talk) 21:57, 25 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • "born in Medina in circa 674"? I think you don't need "in" with "circa".
Done. Al Ameer (talk) 21:57, 25 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Discussion of Hajjaj's influence on Walid is rather too strong compared to EI2: "strongly influenced", "viceroy's direction" etc. Would suggest softening a bit to match with the source.
I'll look into this tomorrow when I have the sources in front of me (EI2 and others). From my readings, he was quite influential over al-Walid. While Abd al-Malik depended on al-Hajjaj it was clear who was the boss, but things were different with al-Walid, under whom al-Hajjaj acted more as a partner than a subordinate. This is the gist. Al Ameer (talk) 21:57, 25 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The EI2 entry on al-Hajjaj: "Although Abd al-Malik had now and then restrained the activities of his governor, al-Walid (86-96/705-15) gave him a free hand in everything and relied on him all the more in that he was indebted to him for his succession to the throne, which al-Hadjdjadj had urged to Abd al-Malik against the claims of Abd al-Aziz b. Marwan ... In domestic affairs also al-Walid conformed to the wishes of his governor, appointing and dismissing officials at his prompting." Wellhausen, p. 251: "Walid I, for whose succession he [al-Hajjaj] was anxious, gave him a free hand, and even in his own sphere of government gave in to him and consulted his wishes." I think the article reflects this accordingly. --Al Ameer (talk) 12:45, 26 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Al-Walid patronized or encouraged the construction of great mosques throughout the Caliph..." This should be deleted from "Public works" section, since it is the subject of a more detailed section that follows.
Done. Al Ameer (talk) 20:45, 29 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • According to Blankenship, Walid financed his public works partly by decreasing pay of Syrian soldiers. This should be included.
This is already noted in the Patronage of great mosques section regarding the mosque in Damascus. —Al Ameer (talk) 20:45, 29 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Sources & Verifiability

  • You've Kennedy 2nd edition in biblio but pages from 3rd edition
Can't you tell how frustrating this particular source has been for me? ;) Al Ameer (talk) 21:57, 25 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I've decided for myself: will always use 2nd edition, since more pages are accessible in google books and my copy is also 2nd edition ;)
I have the full ebook of the Second Edition (2004), but before that I was using whatever edition Google Books allowed me access to, hence the confusion. Anyway, fixed. Al Ameer (talk) 12:45, 26 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Google books link for Marsham 2009 plz.
Done. Al Ameer (talk) 21:57, 25 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • "a man after the heart of the scholars of the Scripture" in Wellhausen refers to Umar II I think.
This quote isn’t in the article, are you referring to al-Walid’s insistence that the people surrounding him have knowledge of the Qur’an? Al Ameer (talk) 21:57, 25 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, that one.
@AhmadLX: Just re-read it. Wellhausen does state the Umar II was "a man after the heart of the scholars of the Scripture", but is referring to al-Walid when he says "and he emphatically insisted upon knowledge of the Qoran in the case of everyone, though he, to his father’s sorrow, no longer spoke in the old Arabic in which the holy Book is written." —Al Ameer (talk) 02:11, 26 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Yes but " insisted upon knowledge of the Qoran in the case of everyone" is vague and is not equal to "[Walid] was adamant that those in his company possessed knowledge of the sacred Islamic book."
I think it’s more specific in Tabari. I’ll check. Otherwise, I’ll modify the text accordingly. —Al Ameer (talk) 02:37, 26 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Tabari lists two examples of al-Walid's insistence on men coming to him for favors have knowledge of the Qur'an (vol 23, p. 220). I think this is undoubtedly where Wellhausen got his information. "Everyone" in this case must mean everyone in his presence as opposed to everyone in the Caliphate for instance. If it's problematic, I can revise it as partial quote attributed to Wellhausen. --Al Ameer (talk) 12:21, 26 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I revised it as stated above, but honestly I think the previous version was better. --Al Ameer (talk) 13:10, 26 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for revising it, but I'm quite unhappy with what we have there now. Instead of following Wellhausen closely, I think we should rephrase what Tabari says into something like ", yet he insisted, during his reign (this one optional, or you can change it the way you like), that everyone in his company must/should have the knowledge of Quran.
Agree, I rewrote it. --Al Ameer (talk) 14:23, 29 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • "another of al-Hajjaj's appointees, Mujja'a ibn Si'r, wrested control of Uman, along Arabia's southeastern coast." I could not find this in Kennedy 2016 p. 91 (or Kennedy 2004 pp. 103-105) and Dietrich 1971 p. 41.
It's in Dietrich's entry on al-Hajjaj (p. 41, 1st column, 3rd para). However, the Oman affair was a bit confusing when I delved a bit deeper into it. I'm not sure now if it occurred during Abd al-Malik's reign or al-Walid's. --Al Ameer (talk) 14:08, 29 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oopps, had read that para 3 times, but somehow missed it ;) But there is another problem. Dixon (thesis, p. 263 ff.) places this in Abd al-Malik's reign.
I’m still not clear on the dating, but will remove it from here. Perhaps it should be noted in Abd al-Malik’s article. —Al Ameer (talk) 20:45, 29 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • "After a lengthy siege in 707–708, the Byzantine fortress of Tyana was captured." Wellhausen p. 224 doesn't give the year of the siege. Please add one source.
@Cplakidas: I was going to copy it from the Siege of Tyana article but had difficulty finding which source exactly mentioned the years "707–708". Could you add the correct reference to this article? Al Ameer (talk) 14:08, 29 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Al Ameer son: Done. Constantine ✍ 15:25, 29 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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