Talk:Aliens Online/Archive 1

no place with PREDATORS

this game has nothing to do with predators ..it had none in it... —Preceding unsigned comment added by SoulDragun (talk • contribs) 19:24, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

The list article suggested includes both Alien and Predator titles, as the two franchises are so closely related (the majority of games in both franchises being Alien vs. Predator titles). --IllaZilla (talk) 20:45, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Merger proposal

Don't merge.--4.244.3.190 (talk) 22:56, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Do you have a valid reason it shouldn't be merged, or is this just a case of WP:ILIKEIT? --IllaZilla (talk) 01:15, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Well for one someone's like "Cool I just bought Aliens versus Predator, I'm gonna look up info on it on Wikipedia, WTF IS WITH THIS SHIT MAN, IT SAYS SOME STUFF ABOUT A LIST, I DON'T HAVE TIME FOR THIS BEURACRATIC BULLSHIT!"--4.244.3.246 (talk) 17:32, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

So in other words, you like it, therefore it shouldn't be merged. That's not a good reason at all. This is a stub article with no references that is pretty much just a plot summary. It doesn't seem likely that it could be much improved from there, so it would fit much better in a larger article about Alien and Predator games in general, which is what the list article is developing into. Sorry you disagree, but frankly whether you find streamlining content to be "beaurocratic bullshit" is totally irrelevant. --IllaZilla (talk) 19:48, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Don't Merge but clean up - While this game should be included in List of Alien and Predator games it should also have its own article based on WP:NOTE and within Wikipedia:WikiProject Video games/Article guidelines. List_of_Castlevania_titles is a good example of what List_of_Alien_and_Predator_games should look like. If you look at Wikipedia:CVG/FA you will see that List_of_Castlevania_titles is a featured article and while it has information about the titles it also links to separate video game articles for each game. As for WP:Note you will see that Gamespot reviewed the game [1] as well as an overview by GameSpy [2] and a review in Computer Games Mag 11/8/2002. I propose that this article be cleaned up to meet the standards of Wikipedia:WikiProject Video games/Article guidelines but is notable enough to stand on its own.Cavafox (talk) 02:43, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

I created the List of Alien and Predator games, and modeled it after the List of Castlevania titles specifically because the Castlevania list is a featured list. So yes, I'm aware of it...unfortunately I found the list article rather difficult to build what with all the intricate coding for the tables & references, so I lost interest, but I plan to go back to it when I'm not so busy elsewhere. However, not each title necessarily warrants its own article, especially when 80% of the Alien video game articles are stubs which no one has made an effort to improve in over a year. This one is lacking the essential elements of development, history, and reception. Without those, it fails the test for notability. The last substantial edit (not vandalism or a minor edit) was in February 2007, and it's been marked for merger since March 2008. While improvements would certainly be welcome, it doesn't appear that anyone is interested in making them. Since you've obviously shown interest, why don't you improve it? Failing that, I don't see a problem with merging. The article would be redirected, so the old info would still remain in the history and could be recovered if someone wanted to revive and improve it. --IllaZilla (talk) 03:42, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

In your creation of that list you must have noticed that most of the Castlevania articles have their own pages as well as the list page. Once i have some extra time I will fix this page to compliant with Wikipedia:WikiProject Video games/Article guidelines which I will try to do this week. Until then I still feel that the article is notable considering it is in sources deemed reliable inWikipedia:WikiProject_Video_games/Sources, Yes those sources need to be added and cleaned up. I don't have all the time in the world. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cavafox (talk • contribs) 12:05, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Again, I'm well aware of the Castlevania list. Just because each Castlevania game has an article doesn't mean, by default, that each Alien game should also have one. As I said, most of them were/are stubs with no substantial activity for over a year and very little chance of being improved as secondary sources did not appear to be available. Note that even the shortest of the Castlevania game articles still have some discussion and references about their development and reception. The same can't be said of the Alien game articles, save for a few of them. Of course I assume good faith on your part and am totally willing to leave the article for some time for you to improve. As I said, I haven't worked on the list article in quite a while and even when I do get back to it I'm sure progress will be slow. None of us have all the time in the world, which is why this proposal has sat here for 6 months. --IllaZilla (talk) 15:51, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Don't merge. AO was in some ways a groundbreaking title that sadly has been mostly forgotten today. It deserves its own page as much as anything else I find on wikipedia. - Keithustus (talk) 20:23, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Whether you think it was "groundbreaking" is not really relevant. You have to show this by providing references to reliable sources (preferrably secondary sources) to show why the game is notable. Since no references have been provided, a merge into a larger article is a perfectly appropriate suggestion. --IllaZilla (talk) 20:52, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Aliens Online was one of, if not the, first First-Person-Shooters with relatively ongoing worlds, as well as with role-playing-game-like experience rewards. It also predated Counter-Strike by several years in having asynchronous goals and playstyles between the opposing teams. It also described itself as "massively multiplayer" long before that term become commonplace, although the definition changed considerably. - Keithustus (talk) 11:54, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Again, that all sounds great, but are there reliable sources to back up these claims? That's Wikipedia's threshold for inclusion. --IllaZilla (talk) 19:41, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

After this many years, not a lot of the reviews or commentary about the game still exist on the web. GameSpot's review is still available, and it does a mediocre job of explaining the concepts: [3] The trouble is that the game was only available on a pay-to-play service so did not get as much exposure as other titles of the period. There's no entry on Metacritic, for instance. It also doesn't help that the game has been impossible to play for years now, due to the licensing and centralized server requirements. - Keithustus (talk) 22:20, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

And that's our basic problem here. The verifiability policy states that we shouldn't have articles about topics for which few to no independent third-party sources exist. There aren't enough sources for us to build a stand-alone article around, and as a result we wind up with an article that will never become more than a stub and is mostly plot summary/game guide-like detail. If there aren't a decent number of secondary sources available, then it makes sense to merge this into a larger article about Alien games in general and simply give the basic details. --IllaZilla (talk) 07:52, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

Other support for the game

• The SS Free supports Aliens Online, click on the Weyland-Yutani section.--4.244.42.67 (talk) 21:46, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

• The SS Free's Aliens Online forum has over 480 members and over 8,700 posts, and Aliens Online has been dead since 2001.--4.245.78.85 (talk) 22:11, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

• Does anyone know if there are any online gaming services for this game? I mean other than GameStorm, thats down.--4.245.78.85 (talk) 22:28, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Does this have something to do with improving the Wikipedia article? This isn't a forum for general discussion about the game (ie. this is not GameFAQs). We're here to write an encyclopedia. On that note, adding links to messageboard forums and unofficial fan sites is discouraged by the policy WP:NOT#LINK and the guideline WP:EL. Specifically, under "links normally to be avoided": "Links to social networking sites (such as MySpace), chat or discussion forums/groups (such as Yahoo! Groups), USENET newsgroups or e-mail lists." We're only supposed to include links that are unique informational resources, such as official sites, reviews, etc. --IllaZilla (talk) 22:34, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Team Kindred ([4]) is official, they developed and published AO Game ([5]), Aliens Online 2: Encounter ([6]), and Aliens Online: Encounter 2 ([7]) and the SS Free (hacked) is official for several companies, including Reenactor Entertainment (hacked) (used as a backup forum), Games and Glory ([8]) (Alien versus Predator Online only), Star Destroyer Studios, Tache Interactive, 4810 ([9]), Hatton Vending ([10]) (unofficially a backup forum), F.A.W.L. Productions ([11]) (backup forum only), and a few others.--4.244.0.38 (talk) 01:01, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

OK, see how all of those turn up as red links? That means there aren't any Wikipedia articles about them (using [[double brackets]] produces internal links). It'd be more helpful if you'd provide external links by using [single brackets] with the URL in between them (ie. [http://en.wikipedia.org]); this produces an external link to the website. That way the rest of us can check out these sites and see if they are appropriate for the article. Offhand I'd say that all of these forums, etc. don't seem appropriate, since I've already pointed out that message boards, discussion forums, etc. aren't what Wikipedia is trying to provide. We're trying to provide unique resources with more information about the subject, not "places to chat about the game" or "here's where you can play the game". What I'm saying is, if there are online services that still host the online component of the game (as GameStorm used to do) then those are probably worth mentioning in the article, since GameStorm no longer supports the game, and the links to those sites could probably be used as sources. This information could be written in prose form in the article and then the links could be used in citations as references. See if you can provide some of those URLs and we'll take a look at them. --IllaZilla (talk) 02:00, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

P.S. You might consider creating an account as well. Since you're editing from multiple IP addresses, an account will make it easier for other Wikipedians to communicate with you and also make it easier for you to keep track of article edits (by creating a watchlist, etc.). Just see WP:ACCOUNT for an explanation & simple instructions. --IllaZilla (talk) 02:12, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

I have an account, but I know you will ban me, I'm xgmx, all I want to do is help out, yet 1: I'm blocked and 2: my account got hacked by rustyslacker.--4.244.3.212 (talk) 04:38, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

I have no intention of banning you, nor do I have a good reason to do so. If you think you've been blocked unreasonably, follow the instructions at WP:FAQ#BLOCK. If your account has been hacked, simply place {{adminhelp}} on your curren talk page and an admin will come along to help you. --IllaZilla (talk) 05:22, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, if only more admins were like you, also it turns out he hasn't hacked my account here yet, well I'll request an unblock, thanks.--4.244.42.20 (talk) 13:53, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Remove the -DOT- and replace it with a .--4.244.42.20 (talk) 14:01, 4 August 2008 (UTC)