Talk:Alloy wheel

RE: Article

Hello, I have started this article with some information I both know and that I have researched, and I have also uploaded two pictures of the wheels on the two cars at my household, which I knew would work perfectly. Can anybody add some more information? Thanks Harrison Bass - HB4026 00:19, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

I've found contradictory information between the two articles. Here it states that aftermarket wheels are often referred to as "mag" wheels while commonly mistaken with "magnesium" wheels. However, at the magnesium wheel article it states that "mag" wheels refer to "magnesium" wheels and is often mistaken with alloy wheels. Who's right, who's wrong? Ghotiness 20:17, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

OK, from my experience, the term "mag" wheels originated for the motorcycle market, when manufacturers wanted to move away from heavy chrome plated steel spoked wheels, to a lighter more durable wheel capable of utilising tubeless tyres (rather than tubed tyres with inner-tubes). These were made from magnesium alloys, hence the abbreviated "mag" terminology.

"Alloy" wheels initally originated from car motorsports (the type of wheel, but not the name, because motorsport specific wheels are generally magnesium alloy), which then percolated into the general road-going car market. These car wheels, due to the cost of magnesium, where primarily made from aluminim alloys (although some more expensive OEM wheels can include magnesium and aluminium in the alloy), hence the term "alloys". HTH Teutonic Tamer 09:33, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Alloy?

Calling aluminum (U.S. spelling) wheels "alloy wheels" is ignorant do to the fact that, in most cases, the only other type of wheel is a steel wheel. Steel is an alloy also, therefore steel wheels are alloy wheels.

Not really. I think you are being a little pedantic. It is now very common terminology in both car and motorcycle worlds (and trucks too) to class a pressed steel wheel as a "steel" wheel, whereas an "alloy wheel" is used for any formed or cast wheel which is made from any kind of lightweight alloy, be that magnesium alloy or aluminium alloy (or any combination of lightweight metalic components). Rgds Teutonic Tamer 09:40, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

I agree with the OP that the term is misleading because all wheels are alloy wheels. However you are correct that the common usage for the term "alloy wheel" is basically "anything other than the standard steel wheel". I think the article name is correct and the content of the article is correct. However it might be worth mentioning, for complete accuracy, that steel is also technically an alloy. 80.235.138.77 (talk) 13:59, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

The OP is not being pedantic, he or she is being totally correct. The only reason that "alloy wheel" is "common terminology" for aluminium or magnesium wheels is ignorance, because the majority of the population assume "alloy" means aluminium. This erroneous belief extends beyond the world of wheels, ie drink cans that were once made of steel are now made of aluminium and referred to as "alloy cans" . Allowing such an error to perpetuate only because so many people think that way is akin to science allowing people to continue believing the world is flat. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.243.155.75 (talk) 22:14, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

The alloy article addresses this quite succinctly in the terminology section. Yes, steel is an alloy, but it is so common in the manufacture of wheels that they are simply called wheels. "Alloy wheel" almost never refers to steel wheels, but is used for wheels made from non-ferrous alloys. This is just an idiom of language, which are not dictated by scientists or writers alone, but by society in general. Like a dictionary, an encyclopedia does not make up nor enforce the language. If they did, we'd still be speaking Old English right now. We simply follow the language as it changes through time.

Just a hundred years ago, an "alloy" was a mixture of metals. Therefore, steel was not considered an alloy until more recently, because its interstitial nature was far less understood than, say ... electrum, which could easily be separated into its individual constituents. It is fairly recent that "alloy" came to include metals mixed with non-metals. It is likely that the meaning will change again in the future, but society will determine that, not us. (As an example, in Old English, "gear" meant "habits and mannerisms." In Middle English it came to mean goods or supplies carried with a person. In the Renaissance, it was any internal workings of a machine. It was only in the last century that it came to mean a wheel with interlocking teeth.) Zaereth (talk) 22:49, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

Merge

Magnesium alloy wheel should be merged into this article. There are so many alloys that differentiating between them is pointless. 171.71.37.29 20:26, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

I agree they should be merged. We could then make a clear distinction between magnesium alloy wheels and aluminium wheels, whilst still keeping them under the same generically used 'umbrella' term of 'alloy wheels'. Teutonic Tamer 09:45, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

• Article is now merged. HarrisonB - Talk 07:13, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Rim vs wheel

Why is this article called "alloy wheel"?
Rim + tire = wheel. (i.e. Only the rim is alloy, while the tire is rubber) Socrates2008 (Talk) 12:46, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Erm . . . a rim plus a tyre does NOT equal a wheel! A "rim" is merely a term for the outer edge of a wheel - in the same way that a "rim" is the outer edge of say a volcanic crater! A "wheel" does NOT need to have a tyre attached to be called a wheel. -- Teutonic Tamer 22:11, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

It's probably down to regional/country differences in terminology. Socrates2008 (Talk) 22:32, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Composition

189.42.228.115 (talk) 23:49, 16 March 2008 (UTC)I have found conposition of ZK60: Mg- 5,6% Zn and 0,55% Zr by w. Could I add it to the article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.42.228.115 (talk) 23:45, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Wheel weight/mass

The entry states: "The mass of typical magnesium automotive wheel is about 8–12 kg (depending on model)." which is unsourced and--as far my limited looking around has netted--inaccurate. For example: Axis Mag-lites 17x7 are 7.1kg; Hammann magnesium 19x8.5 are 8.2kg; Minilite Magnesium in 14x6 and 15x7 are 4.5 and 4.8kg, respectively; Nismo LM GT Magnesium 18x10(!) are still only 7.8kg. Certainly we could debate the word "typical" in this context as magnesium wheels are more apt to be used in a racing situation (and thus will be larger/heavier wheels as a result) versus a passenger car (where the "typical" wheel size should not even breach the 8 kg listed in the article). I've looked through this site: http://www.wheelweights.net/ and the heaviest magnesium wheel I found was 10.3 kg. Using only that source as a frequency guide I'd perhaps suggest a range closer to 5-9kg as being roughly 1.5-2 standard deviations about the mean. Any thoughts? EDIT: Logged in to re-sign Avram42 (talk) 13:50, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

I updated the appropriate section with my findings, address it as you will Avram42 (talk) 02:56, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Production methods

I separated this out from the "magnesium" section because the methods seem to apply to all alloys. the language needs to be changed to reflect this and more detail needs to be added. 71.236.242.147 (talk) 04:13, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

At least in Europe another production method is common, there called „Alubandrad“ (Alumminum Belt Wheel). It is built similar to the here so called Pressed Steel Wheel and replaces these increasingly as basic equipment. --84.178.38.161 (talk) 15:18, 18 January 2014 (UTC)

Request edit

This topic, "Alloy Wheels", begins with the statement -

"Alloy wheels are wheels that are made from an alloy of aluminium or magnesium. They are typically lighter for the same strength and provide better heat conduction and improved cosmetic appearance over steel wheels."

I find this strange as steel is itself an alloy.

I refer to Wiki's page titled "Steel" which states -

"Steels are alloys of iron and carbon, widely used in construction and other applications because of their high tensile strengths and low costs. Carbon, other elements, and inclusions within iron act as hardening agents that prevent the movement of dislocations that otherwise occur in the crystal lattices of iron atoms."

The problem probably arises from the fact that many people through ignorance automatically relate the word "alloy" to something made of aluminium.

Please do not help perpetuate this error. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.243.155.75 (talk) 01:27, 18 March 2015 (UTC)

This is discussed in a bit more detail in the alloy article. Steel is indeed an alloy, but is so common in the production of wheels that they are simply referred to as "wheels." The term "alloy wheels" almost never refers to steel wheels. That is simply idiomatic. Language is funny that way, but, like dictionaries, we simply follow the trends; we don't set them. However, I don't think it would hurt to add a little clarification that steel is in fact an alloy as well, just not the alloy used in "alloy wheels." Zaereth (talk) 06:18, 18 March 2015 (UTC)