Talk:August Hirt

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Additional information[edit]

The German wikipedia article provides a lot more information on this person and fully justifies classifying him as a Holocaust perpetrator.Mtsmallwood (talk) 02:07, 27 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I am taking details from the French page which is also a lot more extensive. Although my French isn't great so it would be good is someone could proof read, and correct and translation errors. Ashmoo (talk) 14:05, 21 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I worked more on the translations from the French page, and added two of the sources used on that page in this article, and added the flag to indicate we did that, that is, translate from the French Wikipedia article. --Prairieplant (talk) 12:35, 12 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Photo possible?[edit]

The Russian Wikipedia article on Hirt has a photo of him at work in his lab. I do not read Russian at all, but I think they wrote a justification for using the photo (based on the boxes of text below the enlarged photo, not the actual words). The photo has a URL on wikimedia. Is it possible to use it for this article? I have seen head and should photo of him, a different photo from the one used in the Russian article, used on the web site of Hans-Joachim Lang at The Perpetrators http://www.die-namen-der-nummern.de/index.php/en/the-perpetrators, and just his face taken from the same photo was used in a news article about a documentary of Lang's work for The Names of the Numbers at this news article http://www.rfi.fr/hebdo/20141024-au-nom-de-la-race-et-de-la-science-documentaire-crime-nazi-meconnu-prime-waterloo/ by Anne Bernas. Well, a few possibilities. There is a tiny photo of him with his wife at a younger age that is mentioned in this article as a source for saying he was married, but the photo is rather small, and if it can be copied from that web page, I am not the one who knows how to do it. A photo of him alone seems more sensible, as his wife did not commit these crimes, as far as I know. --Prairieplant (talk) 13:12, 12 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @Prairieplant: There's a problem with the ru-Wiki photo for re-use on the en-wiki site. There are conflicting statements regarding the copyright, and the original source is unclear (it links to an inactive Wikimedia upload link). It was produced more than 70 years ago and the author is unknown, so it is in the public domain in Russia. [1] However, that does not hold true for use in the U.S. or on en-wiki. "A general rule of thumb is that if the creator of a work has been deceased for more than 70 years, their works are in the public domain in the country the creator was a citizen of and in the country where the work was first published. If the work is anonymous or a collaborative work (e.g. an encyclopedia), it is typically in the public domain 70 years after the date of the first publication.
Many countries use such a copyright term of 70 years. A notable exception is the U.S. Due to historical circumstances, the U.S. has more complex rules. In the United States, copyright generally lasts:
• for works first published 1978 or later: until 70 years after the author's death. Anonymous works or work made for hire: until the shorter of 95 years since the first publication or 120 years since the creation of the work [....]
• Works published before 1923 are in the public domain."
You cannot copy an image from the internet and upload to Wikipedia or Wikicommons without verifying that the image is in the public domain – it will be deleted.
The image had the tag PD-old-70 [2], "To be in the public domain in the US, a work must generally either be PD-1923, or be in the public domain in its source country on that country's URAA date, which is usually 1 January 1996." The image was not in the public domain in Russia or Germany in 1996, when the URAA went into effect. The date of 70 years should be from the death of the author (the photographer, not Hirt), since the author is unknown, and it is clearly not Hirt who died in 1945 it would go to the date of first publication (unknown) or of first creation (also unknown – the image shows Hirt dissecting a body. It could be anyone at anytime). Therefore, this applies: works first published outside the United States that were not in the public domain on the URAA date - these works are not in the public domain in the United States. You should not upload the work. If you find an existing such work, nominate it immediately for deletion."
Other options - find the source of the image if it is the PD - I found the image at http://www.holocaustchronicle.org/staticpages/477.html with a reference to the source at the Musee de la Resistance Nationale / United States Holocaust Memorial Museum Photo Archive, however I was unable to locate the image at the USHMM digitized online photo archive. Sorry that I couldn't be of more help. On the other hand, I personally think he should be regulated to the fate he would have dictated for his victims had it not been for Lang - his name and visage being forgotten. NotaBene 鹰百利 Talk 19:11, 12 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
N0TABENE That is a good education on US copyright law, thank you. I see your point about not having a photo, but his collaborators show up in his place in the Jewish skeleton collection article, Brandt and Sievers in their mug shots for war trials. There is apparently no mug shot for him, or you would have found it in that archive you searched. It strikes me that if there are those photos, Hirt should top the stack of them, and then be here as well. I suppose Lang and that newspaper could use the head & shoulders photo image they do/did, because Lang's website is not Wikipedia (did he use it in his book? I have to get a copy of that book at the library) and the newspaper might have him as a file photo? Yes, the Russian photo looks pretty grisly. You have made it clear why other Wikipedias did not pick it up. --Prairieplant (talk) 19:27, 12 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Prairieplant: Yes, Wikipedia has more stringent rules about copyright use than most online and print publications. Funny though that if you upload an image that you created, you must relinquish virtually all copyrights to the image, even to the extent that you allow other people or commercial entities to make a profit from your images. There was no mug shot of Hirt because he escaped and shot himself as you know whereas the others faced justice. NotaBene 鹰百利 Talk 20:04, 12 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Section translated from French Wikipedia & its sources[edit]

The early portion of Hirt's life is described in the article on French Wikipedia and was translated to English for this article in 2015 by an editor noted in the history of changes. There is a flag on this Talk page indicating that the article includes translation from French Wikipedia. The sources used for the French article are in a different format than for English articles. An editor (Rms125a@hotmail.com) flagged that section to have citations, I removed the flag, explaining it is translated text. The French article uses sources written in German. The first note from the French article translated by Google says this: The year 1930 is published by Klee (Auschwitz, p. 356), Benzenhöfer (Hirt, p. 23) and Bauer (de) (The University of Heidelberg and its Medical Faculty, 1933-1945 Of the twentieth and twenty-first century, in the year 1933. The change changer is mistakenly named in 1933 as the year of the extraordinary professorship. (end of note) The book by Klee is in the Bibliography section of the article, but there is nothing by Bauer, so the note is confusing, plus the phrase "change changer" does not convey anything to me. It is a note for the first paragraph of that section, and the final sentence says Hirt was a professor in 1930 at an institute in the University of Heidelberg. I did not do that initial translation for this article. If the sources for the French article must be brought over with the text, then we will need some help for that to happen. Help with German. I can read the French but not German. --Prairieplant (talk) 11:52, 19 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Fine. Quis separabit? 00:24, 21 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Birth place August Hirt: what's the point ?[edit]

You prefer to name his birth region as "Baden" (overall term), but then you sort the deathplace "Schluchsee" (which was in the same "Baden" !) under "Baden-Württemberg", an entity created only in 1952, 7 years after his death. There is no logic in that, sorry. --129.187.244.19 (talk) 07:20, 3 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

129.187.244.19 it is inconsistent. I think Baden should be replaced by German confederation, which has a wiki link, for his birth nation, the city being clear. He committed suicide while hiding in the Black Forest in 1945 after the war in Europe ended and the trials had begun. What nation was it at that moment? The Third Reich was gone. The new name? We used that village name in the infobox, while the text explains his hiding place and his suicide not immediately known. I did not do the searching yet for the name of the nation in that time of tumult months after the war ended, but I will do it. Black Forest was enough location for me, for that mixed-up man, when we worked on that article. Now I will figure out a name of the nation for him. Does that work in your view? I hope the ping works; it shows red as if it will not. Are you using an account or is that your IP address? - - Prairieplant (talk) 00:27, 4 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Moved this discussion from my Talk page to here, the article's talk page. --Prairieplant (talk) 02:19, 5 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The nation for his year of birth was German Empire, and when he died, the Allies occupied Germany, the new nations had not yet formed. So the Black Forest was in Allied occupied Germany, and those are both changed in the infobox, with a wiki link for each nation's name. Communication with IP addresses is difficult. --Prairieplant (talk) 02:19, 5 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Why put military rank in italics?[edit]

Kaiketsu I see that you put the military rank for Hirt in italics here and in the next edit. I do not understand why italics are needed in the info box and in the text for his military rank. Is this common for German armies? At any rate, new to me. -- Prairieplant (talk) 02:27, 30 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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