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Greece "interested" in membership?[edit]

So let's get this straight - of the links provided, one is a dead link, and one links to an article that is Russia inviting a debt-ridden Greece to join BRICS. Not only does the article not contain any text to support the assertion that Greece is "interested" in joining, as we all know Athens has since come out saying it is *not* interested in interacting with BRICS and the NDB. Can we get a consensus on removing the mention of Greece as an interested party? — Preceding unsigned comment added by username or IP (talk • contribs) date (UTC)

head of BRICS development bank?[edit]

India will be the first Head of BRICKS development Bank represented by the leadership of Mr. Kamath — Preceding unsigned comment added by username or IP (talk • contribs) date (UTC)

I made and maintain the map.[edit]

If there is a country that shouldn't belong on the map of brics expansion then please let me know and I will fix it. I got the information form the BRICs article. Mathsquare (talk) 04:08, 3 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Protect the map. There are a lot of anti BRICS people trying to remove the map.

138.75.6.0 (talk) 15:20, 6 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, I will do exactly that!!! Mathsquare (talk) 17:42, 18 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The whole article, not JUST the map, needs updated. The prime minister of South Africa just announced that Saudi Arabia has now officially joined BRICS (BRICS+). It's in the news from authoritative news agencies around the world on January 31/2024 and February 1/2024. See Reuters, BBC, you name it, they are all announcing this. Please update. 64.185.61.127 (talk) 14:04, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, it's the South African foreign minister who said Saudi Arabia has now officially joined BRICS. 12.233.244.107 (talk) 14:15, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

For anything about the BRICS expansion map[edit]

Please put it here and so I can easily see it. I am the author and maintainer of the map.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File_talk:Map_of_BRICS_members_and_other_countries_which_are_either_joining,_had_applied_to_join,_or_had_expressed_an_interest_in_joining_BRICS.svg Mathsquare (talk) 00:19, 19 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The foreign minister of South Africa announced that Saudi Arabia has now officially joined BRICS. See Reuters, Bloomburg, US News, and many other organizations from 1/31/2024 and 2/1/2024 headlines. Updates are needed! 12.233.244.107 (talk) 14:19, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Saudi Arabia should be colored as Invited and Argentina as Declined. Doyna Yar (talk) 19:21, 17 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Merge proposal[edit]

I propose merging BRIC into BRICS. As it stands, the BRIC article is a smaller duplicated version of the BRICS article. The only difference between the two articles is that the latter article includes South Africa to the grouping. The addition of this one country can be explained within one article. We do not need two separate articles. The existence of multiple articles on virtually the same topic leads to worse article quality and dilutes the efforts of editors. Thenightaway (talk) 12:23, 7 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

That is a good proposal. The change in title can be explained within the article. Neither article is large enough that the merge would create a size problem. Burrobert (talk) 12:33, 7 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The talk page of BRIC, specifically from 2011-2015, reveals that many discussions were had that determined that the wishes of editors at the time was to maintain BRIC as a separate article dealing about the economic theory by Goldman Sachs, separate and distinct from the international organization. Understanding the article as this shows that BRIC really has nothing to do with the international organization we know now but rather the economic theory that the organization took its name from. I do not support a merge because a lot of that information has no place in this article and is way too in-depth. That being said, I think it should be discussed whether to keep the information in BRIC at all or if it should be retitled as BRIC (economic theory) in order to maintain a distinction. Yeoutie (talk) 16:24, 13 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Editor Burrobert, you state that "Neither article is large enough that the merge would create a size problem". Both articles are 80k in size each, they are each oversize now per WP:SIZERULE. Some sort of consolidation is appropriate, possibly with a few articles on this topic and removing duplication. Possibly one article on "History of BRICS" (i.e. what is now the BRIC article), one article on BRICS as it is, and one article on its support institutions (i.e. New Development Bank and other initiatives). There may be other approaches. 182.239.152.216 (talk) 05:42, 16 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

BRICS: Prose size (text only): 17 kB (2801 words) "readable prose size"

BRIC: Prose size (text only): 28 kB (4615 words) "readable prose size"

Policy advice on readable prose size is contained at WP:Article_size#Size_guideline. Articles with a readable prose size < 50 kB are fine. Burrobert (talk) 09:20, 16 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

If you are sure that these numbers are correct, then I fully support the initiative. 182.239.152.216 (talk) 04:21, 17 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't do the counts myself. They come from the prose size gadget. Burrobert (talk) 10:01, 18 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose for the good reasons given by Yeoutie above. The original acronym was BRIC and this was a pun on brick in a discussion of investment strategy. BRICS is now a rather different thing. As the acronym doesn't work any more, I expect that the organisation will change its name but they can't even agree on that. "BRICS Plus" seems to be the current Chinese suggestion and so the title of the BRICS article is not stable. Andrew🐉(talk) 11:18, 31 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This is no longer the discussion of editors in 2011-2015, this is a discussion for 2023-4. Times change, and so does the opinion of editors. I cannot see a reason why WP would support two articles on what is in fact the one organisation. What you expect to happen is better expressed over on WP:PREDICT. 182.239.148.125 (talk) 04:51, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed ~~ El819 (talk) 16:39, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(that it should be merged)~~ El819 (talk) 23:40, 6 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose the two articles seem to be good on their own, as one of them is about the "thesis" of Goldman Sachs and the other is about the intergovernmental organization. Natg 19 (talk) 02:04, 6 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It Makes sense to Merge BRIC and BRICS into One Article as the only name change is it adds (S)outh Africa to BRIC, making the name BRICS 135.23.143.48 (talk) 01:49, 11 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose We have both G7 and G8, why not keep both BRIC and BRICS too? 2001:8003:9100:2C01:B4A5:A908:5BED:21A3 (talk) 00:58, 6 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The transition from BRIC to BRICS(+) represents an evolutionary process in the group's history. Unlike the G7/G8 analogy, where G8 essentially superseded G7, BRICS represents a broader expansion and inclusivity in membership. Merging the articles would allow for a more comprehensive examination of this evolutionary process.

Maintaining separate articles for BRIC and BRICS may lead to duplication of content and confusion for readers. By consolidating the information into a single article, Wikipedia can ensure consistency in coverage and provide a more streamlined reading experience. Pedro H.V. Santos (talk) 09:36, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose There are two different concepts here, the theory and the organisation. I think it makes sense to keep both separate. The opening in the lede of BRIC links to BRICS in a very clear way. Sargdub (talk) 00:14, 9 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, the BRIC article should be merged because it was not a predecessor organization but just its old name Daisytheduck (talk) 23:30, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Daisytheduck: The BRIC specific to the article in question and the BRIC that became BRICS are two different subjects. One is inspired by the other but are not the same thing. The equivalent would be like merging Europe, European Economic Community and European Union into one article. DA1 (talk) 12:42, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed The proposal is a good idea. BRIC should be MERGED to BRICS because it is the most current article. The notable contexts under BRIC should be be moved to BRICS general with modifications. Fugabus (talk) 17:57, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support

Even Goldman Sachs admits that BRIC and BRICS are the same thing:

By the middle of the decade, numerous BRICs-themed mutual funds, ETFs and indexes were created to track this distinct group of emerging economies. The first annual BRIC Summit took place in 2009 in Yekaterinburg, Russia, bringing together leaders of the BRIC countries to discuss policy issues and common challenges. The following year, the group voted to invite South Africa to join, cementing the acronym BRICS. - Goldman Sachs | Commemorates 150 Year History - With GS Research Report, "BRICs" Are Born

On top of that, the article name should be changed to BRICS+, as new new countries are joining the organization.

Most of the contents of the BRIC article could be organized under the "History" Section. The other contents could be easily accommodated in new sections. Pedro H.V. Santos (talk) 09:25, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Pedro H.V. Santos: Your highlighted quote doesn't match what you're saying. The "acronym BRICS" being cemented doesn't make the BRIC concept and BRICS organization one and the same. The concept of BRIC is independent from the organization. India could withdraw from the organization and the concept of BRIC would still be its own theory and grouping. DA1 (talk) 12:42, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

While I understand your perspective, it's important to recognize that the BRICS+ organization is fundamentally based on the BRIC concept. The inclusion of South Africa in the BRICS grouping can be seen as a natural evolution of the original economic criteria set forth by Goldman Sachs.

After the initial Goldman Sachs reports, most economic analysis and research had already included South Africa in its scope, as evidenced by reports such as the BRICS Investment Report (unctad.org). This suggests that BRICS is not merely an organization separate from the BRIC concept, but rather, it represents the expansion and adaptation of the original acronym to reflect changing economic realities.

Additionally, the acknowledgment of South Africa's inclusion by key figures like Goldman Sachs and O'Neil contradicts your point that the concept of BRIC is entirely independent from the BRICS organization.

Furthermore, it's worth noting that even the BRIC concept itself is not set in stone. The Proposed inclusions section mentions several instances of proposed inclusions to the acronym, such as Mexico and South Korea (BRIMCK) or Arab countries (BRICA). This fluidity demonstrates that the BRIC framework has evolved over time to incorporate new economic realities and potential partnerships.

Therefore, while there may be distinctions between the original BRIC concept and the BRICS organization, they are closely interconnected, with BRICS representing a natural progression and expansion of the original acronym to reflect the changing dynamics of the global economy.

Regards, Pedro H.V. Santos (talk) 13:05, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose For multiple reasons:

1. BRICS is an organization. BRIC is a theoretical concept and grouping that predates BRICS and its former incarnation by the name of BRIC. The subject of each article is inherently different.

2. A member state, say India, could withdraw from BRICS but it would still be part of the BRIC theoretical grouping.

3. The organization of BRICS could admit other states, such as South Africa and later Egypt, Ethiopia, Iran, etc, but they are not part of the theoretical BRIC grouping that concept is about. The purpose behind BRIC is distinct from that of the organization BRICS. DA1 (talk) 17:35, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Should this article be renamed to BRICS+?[edit]

Considering it has grown beyond the 5 member states, it seems reasonable to rename it BRICS+.

216.165.212.4 (talk) 23:08, 18 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, BRICS+ seems very appropriate. As of the morning of February 1, 2024, this article lists 9 nations in BRICS. But many authoritative news organizations announced on 1/31/2024 and 2/1/2024 that Saudi Arabia has now officially joined BRICS. So the "+" would accommodate any number of countries, and the abbreviation BRICS only highlights five of them. 64.185.61.127 (talk) 13:55, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No, it's not what sources use — DaxServer (t · m · e · c) 13:59, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What do you mean? The official website says it is called BRICS+.

Link: https://www.brics-plus.com/ 2001:8003:9100:2C01:B4A5:A908:5BED:21A3 (talk) 00:56, 6 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support Yes, the new organisation is called BRICS+. 2001:8003:9100:2C01:B4A5:A908:5BED:21A3 (talk) 00:49, 6 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support BRICS+ (or BRICS Plus) is already being used in scientific literature - brics plus - Google Scholar Pedro H.V. Santos (talk) 09:13, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

support brics, brics+, 'brics plus' is commonly used across all sources and it makes practical sense Jetsettokaiba (talk) 04:01, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Leaders[edit]

I noticed that Mohammed bin Salman isn't listed in the leaders section. Is this intentional? SirShaunIV (talk) 23:31, 18 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Isn't Saudi Arabia now a member of BRICS? First section of the article, it's not there. Here are sources for Saudi being a member:

https://moderndiplomacy.eu/2024/01/29/brics-expanded-so-what-next/

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/saudi-state-tv-says-kingdom-officially-begins-membership-brics-bloc-2024-01-02/ 75.221.95.36 (talk) 04:18, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Saudi Arabia has officially joined BRICS[edit]

Many authoritative news organizations announced that South Africa's prime Minister says Saudi Arabia has officially joined BRICS. 1/31/2024 and 2/01/2024 64.185.61.127 (talk) 13:47, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It seems really flaky https://www.reuters.com/site-search/?query=BRICS — DaxServer (t · m · e · c) 13:57, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Bloomberg got it wrong? https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-01-31/brics-gets-boost-as-saudi-arabia-joins-group-of-emerging-nations 14.2.196.234 (talk) 23:46, 23 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. They took on the words of another country's minister and ran it. I don't have access to the article, but the headline is factually incorrect as reported by Reuters — DaxServer (t · m · e · c) 09:00, 24 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 2 February 2024[edit]

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

There are 5 new countries instead of the mentioned 4, Saudi Arabia also joined BRICS along with Ethiopia, Iran, the UAE and Egypt. 174.138.221.139 (talk) 00:40, 2 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Saudi arabia also added on 2 jan 2024[edit]

Saudi arabia added on 2 jan 2024 Deepak200520 (talk) 12:36, 17 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No, it didn't, see the article body — DaxServer (t · m · e · c) 12:43, 17 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@DaxServer Have you read [1]? Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 08:41, 21 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Please see the Reuters reference in the article. — DaxServer (t · m · e · c) 17:16, 21 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@DaxServer So, you think the guancha.cn is unreliable?! Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 04:31, 22 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have no clue what that website is. You can reach out to our editors at WP:RSN to determine the reliability — DaxServer (t · m · e · c) 08:00, 22 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The Reuters article is based on a comment to Reuters by "an unnamed Saudi Official", which is hardly a statement by the Royal Saudi Government. How about Bloomberg: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-01-31/brics-gets-boost-as-saudi-arabia-joins-group-of-emerging-nations 14.2.196.234 (talk) 23:47, 23 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry no. Reuters reported they haven't — DaxServer (t · m · e · c) 08:59, 24 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, triple yes. The BBC says the Saudis are in. The Japan Times says the Saudis are in. Bloomberg reports that the chair of BRICS - South Africa - says they are in. Reuters reports that an unnamed source says they are not. Who is the more reliable source - the Foreign Minister of South Africa or an "unnamed source". Can we at least pretend that we are being impartial regarding this article? 14.2.196.234 (talk) 07:29, 25 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reuters report is the latest reporting on the issue and thus invalidates other reports that you quoted — DaxServer (t · m · e · c) 09:21, 25 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

BTW, the BBC quotes Reuters' report from Jan 31 [2] but did not consider the following report [3] because the BBC updated their article at Feb 1 13:59 GMT while the Reuters report was published at 16:48 GMT. Japan Times is a Reuters syndication from Jan 3. — DaxServer (t · m · e · c) 09:30, 25 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You have yet to explain how an unnamed source allegedly talking to Reuters takes precedence over a statement by the South African Foreign Minister. It hardly meets WP:RELIABLE - we don't use content provided by unnamed sources anywhere else on the encyclopedia. 182.239.146.143 (talk) 03:19, 28 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Try reading Source protection — DaxServer (t · m · e · c) 18:04, 28 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I would love to recall for a re-judge for reliability of Reurters, @DaxServer Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 04:48, 5 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

WP:RSN is thatway — DaxServer (t · m · e · c) 08:30, 5 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Website[edit]

The website currently in the infobox is not the BRICS website, it is the 2023 South African conference website. This is: https://infobrics.org/ 14.2.196.234 (talk) 23:51, 23 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If you have (or at least like to learn) Portuguese language knowledges, you may want to see what @Luan: said at d:Talk:Q243630#infobrics.org, which could give us why this website isn't BRICS official website either. Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 09:39, 25 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

How many countries are active in this organisation?[edit]

2402:8100:3186:D14E:3AEE:58CE:C3DF:9DC (talk) 15:14, 22 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

BRICS members are 10[edit]

Brazil,Russia, India, China, South Africa, Eygept,Ethopia,saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates, Iran 118.179.166.161 (talk) 09:23, 8 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relevance of China sovereignty note[edit]

Is there really a good reason for the note about China's sovereignty? I don't think it's particularly relevant to China's membership of BRICS and it's only used in the members table, nowhere else. Can it just be removed? Voltaic181 (he/him) (talk) 18:04, 11 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]