Talk:Bernie Wrightson

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Untitled[edit]

I moved this page (and all appropriate links) from Berni Wrightson, since as far as I know that's his name. At least, that's the name on his website. —Josiah Rowe 04:40, 14 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

He went by Berni for a long time, so many readers will think this is a mistake unless there's an explanation - which I've now added (based on this). It's such a common question, I'm not sure why it's not mentioned on his website. ←Hob 07:01, 14 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Personal Life[edit]

Mary Skrenes, one of Berni's early girlfriends, used the pen name "Virgil North" and wrote an adaptation of "The Legend of Sleepy Hollow" which Wrightson drew for I'll be Damned #1 in 1970 and "All in the Family..." which he drew for DC's House of Mystery 204. She has her own Wikipedia entry. When Wrightson came to Warren Publishing in 1974, working there was colorist Michele Brand (widow of Roger Brand, underground comix artist, who has his own Wikipedia entry), and they subsequently married (circa 1978-80) and had several children. They divorced in the mid 1990s, and Wrightson's current wife is named Liz. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.105.203.68 (talk) 17:26, 5 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

While I agree that there should be a Personal Life section, given the importance of Wrightson's work to his field, we need to reliably source that information. Of more immediate concern is the fact that he is in the hospital after suffering a series of small strokes. This has been confirmed by his wife Liz and has been reliably source by CBR News here: BERNIE WRIGHTSON IN HOSPITAL DUE TO "SERIES OF SMALL STROKES by Steve Sunu. A general basics of where he was born & raised, his education, early influences, marriages and children and any other particularly interesting and useful biographical detail should be present as well as the state of his health right now since rumors have been floating around that he is dead or totally incapacitated, neither of which are true. It's an unfortunate side effect of the Internet Age that whenever a beloved creator/artist/writer falls ill or ages, health events will trigger such speculation. CBR is usually the most reliable source for the truth of any such claims since their writers have good relationships with both the companies that produce Media and the creators of it. I am not able to devote the necessary time and effort to creating a Personal Life section at this time. I would, however, be happy to keep an eye on things and help with sourcing in a few weeks. LiPollis (talk) 06:28, 10 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Here's a Comics Journal article about Roger Brand and his then-wife Michele Brand whom he parted from in 1974. She wrote a few posts in 2011 under the name Michele Wrightson, and says she brought up two sons who are now grown: http://www.tcj.com/a-lousy-week-for-woods-remembering-roger-brand/

Wrightson mentions his ex-wife Michele Robinson Brand in passing in a TwoMorrows interview: http://twomorrows.com/comicbookartist/articles/04wrightson.html

On page 186 of HOWARD CHAYKIN: CONVERSATIONS, published in 2011, he says that he married his first wife Daina Graziunas in 1972, divorced her in 1977, then Berni Wrightson dated her, and subsequently she married Jim Starlin in 1980. All three of these men were good friends and sometimes collaborators in the comics industry. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.187.214.210 (talk) 21:26, 1 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

WikiProject Comics B-Class Assesment required[edit]

This article needs the B-Class checklist filled in to remain a B-Class article for the Comics WikiProject. If the checklist is not filled in by 7th August this article will be re-assessed as C-Class. The checklist should be filled out referencing the guidance given at Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Assessment/B-Class criteria. For further details please contact the Comics WikiProject. Comics-awb (talk) 15:37, 31 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Done. It needs a lot more references. (Emperor (talk) 23:40, 31 July 2008 (UTC))[reply]

GA Review[edit]

Passed. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 06:17, 6 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Reviewing
This review is transcluded from Talk:Bernie Wrightson/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Thebiguglyalien (talk · contribs) 05:59, 30 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]


I will be reviewing this article. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 05:59, 30 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This article still needs more work before it can be classified as a Good Article. I'm going to leave the review on hold for now to give some time for improvements. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 07:14, 30 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Well-written
  • Wrightson moved to New York in hopes of finding work with comics publishers such as DC Comics or Marvel Comics. – This is confusing because it already said earlier that he worked for Marvel and DC. This should be clarified.
  • The phrase "battle" with cancer is used twice. Euphemisms such as these should be avoided.
  • tributes by colleagues and professional admirers that included Joss Whedon, Neil Gaiman, Guillermo del Toro, Walter Simonson Mike Mignola and [the dedication to John Carpenter's "The Thing Artbook" (2017)]. – Who's that last one? I don't think that's a colleague or a professional admirer.
  • Simonson's quote provides too much detail. We don't need the definition of value in this article.
  • The lead does not summarize the body, and it needs to be much longer to do so. See WP:LEAD.
  • An individual sentence should not be on its own line. Find a way to combine them into paragraphs while still making sure that they flow.
Verifiable with no original research

Comprehensive references in a standard references list.

[12] Woerner (2017) from LA Times is a problem. It uses lots of direct quotations and some close paraphrasing, and the "Creative legacy" section is 100% dependent on it. Overall, several quotes in the article could probably be summarized or rewritten.

Most sources seem reliable, but some need to be removed and/or replaced:

  • His official website is used three times ([5], [39], [43]). It's a primary source and it appears to copy information from Wikipedia, so it cannot be used as a source.
  • [15], [33] Grand Comics Database appears to be based on user generated content, and unless I'm mistaken, it cannot be used as a source.
  • Is [36] The Sendai Bubble a reliable source?
  • [45] Wrightson's Facebook post can be removed, because a primary source doesn't add anything to something that's already sourced.

I've spot checked the following sources for plagiarism and accurate use:

  • [9] Cooke (1999) – Good.
  • [20] Ringgenberg (2017) – Good. It's a little close, but this is inevitable given that it's one simple fact with technical terminology.
  • [26] Henriksen (2017) – The article says 1983, but the source says 1982.
  • [28] Carey (2008) – Good.
  • [44] McMillan (2017) – The article says that he announced his retirement, but the source said his wife announced it.

Thebiguglyalien (talk) 06:51, 30 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Broad in its coverage
  • Abigail Arcane, a major supporting character in the Swamp Thing mythos was introduced in issue #3 (Feb.-March 1973). – What does this have to do with Bernie Wrightson? If he created her, the article should say so.
  • The article says very little about what he was doing in the 1990s, 2000s, and 2010s. The "Later career" section needs a lot more for the article's coverage to be sufficient.
Neutral

No neutrality issues.

Stable

No conflicts on the article or on the talk page. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 06:02, 30 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Illustrated

Both images of Wrightson are Creative Commons. One image of his artwork is used with a valid non-free use rationale, and the article would be incomplete without it. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 06:02, 30 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thebiguglyalien Thank you for the feedback. I've made most of the minor changes, am working on an expanded lead, and doing research on more of Wrightson's later life. I should be done by Saturday at the very latest, if that's alright with you. And I think Grand Comics Database is a reliable source, at least concerning comic book credits when no other source is available. The database has a complex verification process and it has been praised by Comic Book Resources[1] and is even reccommended for art history and literature research by the University of Wisconsin–Madison.[2] As for the other questionable sources, I am looking for alternative sources to use. --FlairTale (talk) 05:02, 1 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Take all the time you need! As far as the Grand Comics Database, collaboratively created websites generally aren't considered reliable per WP:UGC, and neither of those sources dispute that it's user generated. If you think it warrants a closer look or that UGC doesn't apply here, you can open a post at the reliable sources noticeboard and I'll go by whatever conclusion is reached there. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 05:41, 1 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thebiguglyalien I've finished, and decided to just replace the GCD citations that needed another source. How does the lead look? Is it alright to use the 'Message' source from his personal website (previously [5], now [43]) for his sons and where he was living at the time of his death? That part does not seem to be copied from Wikipedia. I added some more of Wrightson's work in the 1990s, but his 2000s and 2010s work seems to be few and sporadic. He would've been in his 50s and 60s at this time, so he was probably semi-retired. --FlairTale (talk) 05:29, 6 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Everything looks good. I'll go ahead and pass this review. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 06:13, 6 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Did you know nomination[edit]

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Bruxton (talk) 02:17, 12 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Improved to Good Article status by FlairTale (talk). Self-nominated at 12:18, 7 February 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Bernie Wrightson; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.[reply]

  • The "Bibliography" section is entirely uncited. Unless I'm missing something, this would appear to disqualify it for both DYK and GA. Was this not something that came up in the GAR? Morgan695 (talk) 23:09, 7 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Morgan695 They are all credited issues where Wrightson's name is listed as the artist. Wouldn't that make the issues themselves the source, similar to film credits for a filmography? I added a comics database to the external links, which also contains all the issue credits. FlairTale (talk) 08:48, 8 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • RoySmith, to pass a GA review, inline citations are only necessary for "direct quotations, statistics, published opinion, counterintuitive or controversial statements that are challenged or likely to be challenged, and contentious material relating to living persons", which is slightly higher than the standards set by WP:V. DYK's requirements may be even higher, as it involves posting to the main page. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 17:16, 8 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Thebiguglyalien: That feels like an incorrect reading of GAR policy to me. Criteria 2b requires that all inline citations are from reliable sources, including those for direct quotations, statistics, published opinion, counterintuitive or controversial statements that are challenged or likely to be challenged, and contentious material relating to living persons (my emphasis added). It is highlighting that inline citations are especially important in the listed instances, not that they are only required in those instances. Besides, 2c requires no original research, which requires that all material in Wikipedia must be attributable to a reliable, published source. Morgan695 (talk) 00:15, 9 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • WP:V only requires inline citations in very specific circumstances, and WP:OR doesn't require them at all. Many users have a personal preference for inline citations in front of all claims, but this is not required by any Wikipedia policy, nor is it required by the Good Article criteria. If DYK has a higher standard, then that's the standard at play, but it has nothing to do with the GA process. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 00:40, 9 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Again, this feels like an incorrect reading of Wikipedia policy to me – I'm not convinced a comic author's bibliography, which can often be quite obscure when it comes to components like individual issues authored, qualifies as uncontestably true (and thus not requiring an inline citation) on the level of a statement like "the capital of France is Paris" – but that's a discussion for another day. In any case, per Schwede66, D2 does apply here, so the Bibliography does need to be supported by inline citation(s) before this can pass DYK. Morgan695 (talk) 02:04, 9 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • @FlairTale: See above. Morgan695 (talk) 02:05, 9 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Article was nominated within 7 days of passing GAR. Article is neutral, adequately cited, and clears copyvio, with Earwigs only pinging some properly attributed quotes. Nominator is QPQ exempt. Hook is interesting, cited, and short enough for DYK. Morgan695 (talk) 07:11, 9 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ Carey, Edward (June 16, 2008). "Spotlight on Bernie Wrightson". Comic Book Resources. Archived from the original on October 14, 2017.


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