Talk:Best Thing I Never Had/GA1

GA Review

Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch

Reviewer: Calvin999 (talk · contribs) 18:20, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

Lead

Resolved comments

• "Best Thing I Never Had", was not originally written as a ballad. It was inspired by the drumming on Doug E. Fresh's song "The Show". → Reads like a list, no flow.

  Okay. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 19:07, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

• An R&B-pop song, the subjects of "Best Thing I Never Had" are revenge and karma. → Reads awkward.

  This is one is right. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 19:07, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

  ? Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn}

• Knowles' vocals, and the lyrical content of the song, were complimented. → Again, reads awkward.

  Okay. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 19:07, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

• However, some lyrics, including "showed your ass", were criticized. → Also reads awkward, there is no flow between sentences, this could easily be linked back into the previous point. It's so disruptive to the flow to keep on having to stop after just a few words.

  Looks good as well. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 19:07, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

  ? Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn}

• It attained a high point of number three → It peaked at number three

  For a change, i used attained a high pint. This is FAC-type language. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 19:07, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

  I think it sounds awful. How high is high? Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn}

• In the video, Knowles is preparing for her wedding. She recalls her ex-lover, who never gave her the attention she deserved. → Can't these two sentences be linked to each other instead of being two sentences?

  Okay. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 19:07, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

• and other shows. → Remove, not needed. You've already said on several televised shows.

  Not all shows are televised in the US. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 19:07, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

• ""Best Thing I Never Had"" → Spot what is wrong here.

  Calvin you can at least tell me where it is? Jivesh1205 (Talk) 19:16, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

  There are 4 quotation marks, there should be two.

  Lol. I asked where is it? Jivesh1205 (Talk) 19:30, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

  First paragraph. Just do Ctrl+F and type "" Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn}

Calvin, with all the respect i owe to you... Are you kidding me with these issues? Jivesh1205 (Talk) 18:52, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

No. Those points do read like hard facts, there is no flow with them. Actually read them out loud on the article, it is disruptive. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 19:04, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

The above prose is good. Feel free to ask for second opinion. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 19:16, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

Overall it is good, yes, but the points I have listed do read like a list Jivesh. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 19:21, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

I insist that they are good. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 19:30, 2 December 2011 (UTC)#

I never said they aren't good Jivesh, I said it reads like a list. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 19:53, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

I have told it numerous times. I am not changing anything. The prose is good. Ask for a second opinion. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 19:56, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

I didn't know what you mean't by "This is one is right" and "this looks good aswell". Jivesh, you are not understanding. I have never said the prose is bad. I simply said it reads a bit awkward, which means it could be refined slightly. But you aren't willing to change anything. End of matter now, there is nothing left to say on this page now. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 19:59, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Recording and development

Resolved comments

• Smith was initially intimidated at the prospect of working with Knowles. He told Gyant of Black Entertainment Television about the session. → Do you see what I mean by it being like a list?

  Calvin. This is the proper way of writing. You problem is that you write long sentences. Long sentences are what make the prose choppy. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 19:23, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

  I tried something better. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 19:25, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

  Much better. See how what you have written is in effect shorter, but makes more sense to read and you say it in one sentence, not two broken up ones. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 19:27, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

• Smith was in Los Angeles when Tony Dixon telephoned Smith → Smith was in Los Angeles when Tony Dixon telephoned him
• Smith went to the studio in Los Angeles. → Okay?

  Should i remove it? Jivesh1205 (Talk) 19:26, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

  Yes, it is redundant. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn}

• During his journey, Smith wrote part of the song, and in the studio, Edmonds joined the writing session. → During his journey, Smith wrote part of the song, and was later joined in the studio by Edmonds.
• Dixon and Smith completed the writing session for "Best Thing I Never Had". → It is literally killing me to have to keep stop, this is seriously like bullet points being read from a piece of paper.
• It sounded more like a late 1980s hip hop material than a ballad. → Who said this?

All  Done Jivesh1205 (Talk) 19:28, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

Artwork and release

Resolved comments

• A private listening party for Knowles' fourth studio album, 4, was held on May 12, 2011. Knowles offered a select group of fans a preview of five songs from 4 and the official video for the lead single "Run the World (Girls)". On that occasion, "Best Thing I Never Had" was one of the songs previewed.[8] → Are all three points from FN8?

  Done? Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn}

Yes. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 19:14, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

• On May 1, 2011, a song titled "End of Time" was leaked as a demo[9] while the full demo of the song, featuring Knowles professing everlasting love, was leaked online on May 20, 2011, watermarked with the tag "internal use only". → I'm confused by this sentence. I think you should write that the lyrical content is about Knowles professing everlasting love. And what is the watermarked tag about? I think this needs to be explained more.

  Go to the link ad listen to the audio file. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 06:42, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

  Doesn't matter. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn}

• with "Best Thing I Never Had" was favored → with...was? Not right.

  Done. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 06:42, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Composition

Resolved comments

• compared to Knowles' → compared to Knowles' song's, not quite so ambiguous.

  Done. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 06:50, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

• and strings, → strings, the "and" is too repetitive.

  I don't see how. And is a connective. It is not a verb. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 06:50, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

  "big bass drums,[24] and strings,[24] and layered female vocals" → Do you need two ands? The former is not needed. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn}

• which suits both of them. → I don't understand what you mean by this.

  It means the break-up was the best thing to do. They both benefited from it. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 06:46, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

  Can you write that then? Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn}

  Why should i write it? It is already understood. I wonder how you got stuck there. I cannot rely too much on a personal interpretation of mine. We have to make appropriate use of sources. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 19:16, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

  Oh okay. I didn't understand what you wrote, so that means others might not either.

• "What goes around comes back around"; the lines "Best thing I've ever had", "Best thing you've never had", and the closing line, "Sucks to be you right now". → Shouldn't each lyrics be followed by a semi-colon, not just the first?

  No. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 06:53, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

• I think the lyrics should be italicised so they are distinguishable.

  I have been here for over two years and i have never seen lyrics being italicized. Is that a welcome action at FAC? Jivesh1205 (Talk) 06:46, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

  I italicise lyrics. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn}

  I don't. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 19:16, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

  I do as it makes them more distinguishable, it's clear that they are lyrics, not prose. But Okay. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 19:19, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Critical reception

Resolved comments

• Dose magazine → I'd write Dose, as the name of the magazine is Dose

  Have a look at recent FACs that have passed. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 06:53, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

  GAN is not FAC. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn}

  I won't change it. Your point (which i often use) does not apply here. You can ask anyone else. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 19:17, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

  Okay. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 19:19, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Chart performance

Resolved comments

• For the charts → chart ?

  Done? Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn}

Yes. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 19:18, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

• chart,[63] The following week → Should chart be proceeded by a full stop or should The be a lower case t?

  Fixed. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 07:36, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

• released.[65]Four → Need a space between the footnote and Four.

  Fixed. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 07:36, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

• the single peaked at → song, not single.

  Okay. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 07:28, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

• (Section wide note) Can you find alternatives for writing "Best Thing I Never Had" all the time? It's already getting too repetitive, and I'm only on the third line.

  Wait... What do you want more? I have alternated it well. I use BTINH... the song and so on. There is nothing repetitive. Repetitive is what you usually do. You use the song... the son... the song... everywhere. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 07:28, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

  In the first paragraph of this section alone, you use "the song" twice and "BTINH" 6 times... Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn}

  I cannot do anything more. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 19:24, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

  Okay, I saw you changed a few anyway. I think it's best to alternate for example if you started with BTINH, then use The song, then BTINH, then The song. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 19:27, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

  No, it is good now. YOU ARE ASKING FOR TOO MUCH. Please stop now. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 19:31, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

  That point is advice for all articles you work on form now on. It's advice that was given to me and I go by it. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 19:39, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

  Well you should also learn to effectively apply what has been told to you. It just does not apply here. What you are asking me is illogical. Pardon me but there's no better way i can express myself at this point. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 19:43, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

  How? It avoids having to say "Best Thing I Never Had" constantly. It is better to alternate to avoid sounding repetitive. But anyway. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 19:45, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Why don't you ever agree? Do you think i am trying to misguide you. I am telling you all this for your own good and you are still repeating the same things. Anyway, let it be. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 19:53, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

• "Best Thing I Never Had" debuted at number 53 on the US Hot R&B/Hip-Hop Songs, where it was the highest debut that week. → As you don't mention this chart further, I assume this was a debut and peak? Got to where it peaks at 4 now, try to keep component charts together, it's a bit all over the place at the moment, as you go from R&B to Dance to Radio then back to R&B.

  What do you normally do for the UK? week by week, right? All these charts are compiled by Billboard and that's the way they are supposed to be represented. It is the same country that i am talking about. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 07:21, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

  I just find it all over the place to jump between charts, its confusing. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn}

  It is not. We go by a weekly analysis for each country. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 19:23, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

• It stayed at number one for another week. → Link back to previous sentence.

  This will make the prose choppy. I told you it is better to make short sentences rather than very long ones. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 07:32, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

  Use a ; Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn}

  I will say it again. There is not need to do all that when short sentences can be used. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 19:23, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

• It rose and fell for the next five weeks,[77] "Best Thing I Never Had" entered the top 20 on July 25, 2011, at number 18. → This sentence is not good.

  Fixed. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 07:36, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

  Rising and falling is just the present tense of the past rose and fell, you haven't improved this. I'd use fluctuated. It's short and to the point. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn}

  You could have told this from the very beginning, right? Jivesh1205 (Talk) 19:23, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

  I didn't know you was going to simply change it from past to present tense Jivesh. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 19:27, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

• On its fifth week on the chart → In its fifth charting week (Like what you said to me on Te Amo)

  I hope you do not have anything against me. Lolzz. There is a big difference in what is here and what was in "Te Amo". You wrote at number 22 in its sixth week in Australia Do you remember now? Jivesh1205 (Talk) 07:18, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

  Still. Lol. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn}

  It does not apply here. Why are you trying to make something happen when it simply won't fit here? Jivesh1205 (Talk) 19:23, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

• It became her fourth single as a solo artist, to reach number one on that chart and seventh including her singles with Destiny's Child. → Redundant comma, no need for it.

  Fixed. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 07:36, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

• "Best Thing I Never Had" debuted at number 35 in the Irish Singles Chart on June 16, 2011.[88] It fell to number 42 the following week.[89] From June 30, 2011, the single climbed the chart, entering the top 20 four weeks later.[90] The following week, it entered the top 10 at number six.[91] "Best Thing I Never Had" peaked at number two on the Irish Singles Chart on July 21, 2011.[92] → 5 sentences to say this? Really? This should be 3 maximum.

  Please do it for me. Post it here itself. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 07:19, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

  "Best Thing I Never Had" debuted at number 35 in the Irish Singles Chart on June 16, 2011,[88] and fell to number 42 the following week.[89] After several weeks the song peaked at number two on the chart on July 21, 2011.[92] → As we say in England, don't use twenty words when you can say it in ten. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn}

  From what i see, you removed many sentences and information. The first sentence does not read well. I suggest you read it aloud five times. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 19:23, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

  I went on too long. It's just fluffing it up. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 19:27, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

  Look at what i have done. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 19:29, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

  better, but: "the song climbed the chart consecutively" this is not clear. Id say "the song began to ascend up the charts from June 30, 2011, and entered the top 20 four weeks later. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn}

  What you suggested is not better either. I have changed it. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 19:36, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

  It is better now. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 19:39, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Music video - Background

Resolved comments

• was filmed → filmed. Filmed is already in the past tense, don't need a "was", as it's already obvious.
• The music video for "Best Thing I Never Had" was directed by Diane Martel, and was filmed in Westchester County on June 15, 2011 and in Fort Greene, Brooklyn, on June 16, 2011. On June 20, 2011, it was announced that Knowles would not play the prom queen in the video. Knowles said that " ... not being prom queen in the video reminded her of how she never wore the coveted tiara at her own high school dance." She added that she felt strange because her father, Mathew Knowles, did not escort her down the aisle in the wedding scene, as he had when she married Jay-Z in April 2008. → Source(s)???
• Knowles also wore a tiara designed by Lorraine Schwartz → Source?

  All  Done Jivesh1205 (Talk) 07:43, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Music video - Reception

Resolved comments

• Rolling Stone finds Knowles, → This doesn't read right.

  Fixed. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 07:04, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

• (Section wide note) I do find the ellipsis at the start of each quote rather disruptive, I don't think they are necessary at all. Also, there are lots of quotes, can't you paraphrase some?

  Fixed. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 07:04, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

• Unlinked "Run the World (Girls)", was linked in the Artwork and release section

  Fixed. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 07:04, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

• compared Knowles with Maria von Trapp → Who is she?

  What do you mean? Linking the name is more than enough. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 07:04, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

  I didn't know who she was. For example, if she was an American singer (I know she isn't) you could say "American singer Maria von Trapp". Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn}

• of Billboard magazine → Don't need to write magazine

  Already explained above. From today, also add it when you expand articles of Rihanna. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 07:04, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

  Alrighttttt! Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn}

• , adding, → , writing,

  Fixed. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 07:04, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

• New York magazine said, → Pretty sure the magazine didn't say anything.

  Fixed. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 07:04, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Music video - Alternate video

Resolved comments

• I'd move this to the end of the Background section. No need for this to have it's own sub-section.

  As i have told you in the past, i won't do that. It is a completely different video. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 07:45, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

  Can't you expand it more? It's so small. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn}

  No, i can't. There is nothing more. NOTHING. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 19:24, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

  Okay. I guess it will have to stay how it is then. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 19:29, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Live performances

Resolved comments

• first major solo female performer → called a "headliner"

  Fixed. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 08:01, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

• Knowles performed wearing a low-cut, sequined gold jacket. → Source?

  Fixed. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 08:01, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

• "Best Thing I Never Had" is already becoming repetitive in this section

  Fixed. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 08:01, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

• Knowles gave a free concert, → Is this needed?

  How many times have you seen singers giving free concerts? Jivesh1205 (Talk) 08:01, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

  Are all GMA performances free concerts then? Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn}

  How is this relevant here? Jivesh1205 (Talk) 19:25, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

  I'm trying to understand the importance of highlighting the fact that it is a free concert. What does this mean? No one paid for tickets? People never pay for TV show tickets. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 19:30, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

  It is not always free. And Calvin, GMA is a concert which is also televised. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 19:32, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

  It is in the UK, that's what I go by, as I am from England. Okay, I still don't see the relevance of it it being free though, but I'm sure you won't remove it. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 19:35, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

  Wait... how can you attend a GMA concert (being held in the US) in the UK? How on earth is that possible? Are we in the year 3000? Lol. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 19:39, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

  Jivesh, I mean't that televised shows and live shows are free in the UK. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 19:41, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Yes televised shows are always free. anyway the UK is irrelevant here. Let's stick to the US please. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 19:48, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

• and her hair in bushy, Tina Turner-esque locks. → Is this needed? Also, never use the word "locks", doesn't fit here nor does it sound skillful.

  Yes, it is needed. Look at the FAC of SL. Sometimes viewers wonder how the performer was looking like. 'Lock' is a word just like others. How does it not fit here when the magazine is using it? Jivesh1205 (Talk) 08:01, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

  Not everyone might know what you mean by "locks". Some people might think of on a door. I'd use "style". Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn}

  That would be very foolish. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 19:33, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

  It's an example. I think "locks" sounds immature and unprofessional. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 19:36, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

  Calvin, i am not a native speaker of English and i immediately understood what locks mean? And do you think Tina Turner has only one style or what? Jivesh1205 (Talk) 19:40, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

  Doesn't matter if you are a native speaker or not, my opinion is the same. Hairstyle or style sounds a lot better. I guess it's because English is my first language that I know that "locks" is rarely used. And of course not. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 19:42, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Locks is perfectly understood in American English. We are using American English here because Beyonce is American. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 19:45, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Consensus has been reached that while you are editing an article related to an American, American English is used. All other points fail. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 19:50, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

• Knowles is becoming repetitive. Try to use alternates.

  Fixed. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 08:01, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

References

Resolved comments

• FN2: Link BET Networks
• FN6: Link Entertainment Weekly and Time Inc.. (Remove the full stops from Time Inc as it appears as double)
• FN11: Publisher is New York Media, LLC (See FN45 which is correct)
• FN39: Unlink Entertainment Weekly and Time Inc (Remove the full stops from Time Inc as it appears as double)
• FN47: Link Rolling Stone and Wenner Media
• FN54: Unlink Rolling Stone and Wenner Media
• FN96: Unlink Rap-Up
• FN99: Remove the full stops from Time Inc as it appears as double
• FN115: There are double brackets "))" and brackets within brackets
• FN124: Remove the full stops from Time Inc as it appears as double
• FN126: Same as FN115
• FN139: Link The Official Charts Company

  Linked at FN 85.

  Okay. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn}

• FN2 and FN42 have double quotation marks, which means you have use " instead of ' in the title parameter.

All  Done Jivesh1205 (Talk) 19:05, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

Everything so far has been fixed. I will be back tomorrow. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 19:36, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

Overall

Passed. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 20:00, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 20:01, 3 December 2011 (UTC)