Talk:Bletchley railway station

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External links modified[edit]

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Location info to be improved with more precise distance[edit]

To be added...

  • "Opened by the London & Birmingham railway in 1838, the station was 31 miles 20 chains (31.25 mi) from Oxford" [1] (via Google Books. If anyone has this book, please supply the page number?).
  • 46 miles 54 chains (46.68 mi) from Euston.[2] but is this a wp:RS?

--John Maynard Friedman (talk) 16:04, 19 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@John Maynard Friedman: I've used that website in good articles without issue. It's used by national rail TOCs. Could always use Quail trackmaps instead if you need, but I like the accessibility of the web. -mattbuck (Talk) 16:29, 19 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The first one is doubtful: on the Oxford line (ex Buckinghamshire Railway) the mileage increases towards Oxford; the zero point of this line being Bletchley - but whether this was the station itself or Bletchley South Junction, I don't know. The second one is supported by Quail 4. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 19:51, 19 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Regarding the actual distance, the Platform 5 track map p30 indicates Bletchley is 30 miles 9 chains (48.46 km) from Oxford. Though if I were you I'd use the ELR files to check it as they're a lot easier to work through in my mind. -mattbuck (Talk) 20:00, 19 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The elr for Bletchley - Bedford starts at Bletchley Junction, just outside the station. So BLE is 16 miles 51 chains (16.64 mi) from BED.[3] --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 21:55, 19 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
What is the full title and author for this Platform 5 track map? --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 21:01, 19 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Redrose64 it's "Track Atlas of Mainland Britain", edited by Mile Bridge. And to prove my point of preferring the ELRs I managed to get that number wrong because I missed a mile change and perhaps mistook which one Bletchley was on. -mattbuck (Talk) 03:17, 20 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I found the elr table for Bletchley to Oxford Rewley Road. It says 31 miles 22 chains (31.28 mi) from Bletchley North Junction.[4] --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 22:06, 19 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Here's how I have handled some junction stations which also have a mileage zero for one or more branches: Dingwall; Georgemas Junction; Inverness. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 22:33, 19 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
OK, having looked at the ELR tables I come up with 31~29.
  • 0~16 on LEC1 (46~54 to 46~38; 0~16 subtotal)
  • 30~09 on OXD (0~00 to 30~09; 30~25 subtotal)
  • 1~04 on DCL (64~45 to 63~41; 31~29)
Alternatively you can get the 31~22 if you move from OXD to DCL at Oxford New Junction instead of Oxford North Junction. Which was valid when you could actually get from OXD to Bletchley I'm not sure. -mattbuck (Talk) 03:17, 20 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

This is turning out to be more work (and arguably wp:or) than I have time for right now. More relevantly, mattbuck has highlighted Patchway as an existing example with a sensible lead and "as built" units in the body. I suggest we take that as the reference sample.--John Maynard Friedman (talk) 20:31, 20 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Background to discussion above[edit]

For anyone wondering where the discussion above came from, see Wikipedia talk:WikiProject UK Railways#Appropriate place in articles for this level of detail?.

My proposal [yet to be agreed] is that the lead of this article will say something like "the station is approximately 47 miles (76 km) northwest of Euston on the WCML, about 31 miles (50 km) east of Oxford on the former Varsity line and about 17 miles (27 km) west of Bedford on the Marston Vale line". Later on in the article (at Bletchley railway station#Location} the precise chainage will be given with citations. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 21:55, 19 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Done[edit]

Revision completed per discussion above and at wp:ukrail. See lead and location section. Comments welcome. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 11:19, 30 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

It looks OK, but I thought that we were going to two decimal points with miles and km. Mjroots (talk) 14:59, 30 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I can't see how to get template:convert to do a double conversion (to miles as well as km). I suppose it could be done offline and entered manually? Is that realistic? --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 17:03, 30 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
{{convert|46|mi|54|chain|mi km|2}} ==> 46 miles 54 chains (46.68 mi; 75.12 km) Mjroots (talk) 17:12, 30 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Learn something new every day! Ok, will do. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 17:27, 30 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Technically, good- but I thought we had agreed the 11:19 edit version. The chains are given because that is in the source as we all know, and the km are given to help out anyone that is not familiar with Imperial. I have seen 45.3612 to mean 45m 36.12 chains in some obscure railway document which I can no longer find- do we mean that or are we speaking of centi-smiles? Any rate I think it just add unneccesary clutter. : ) ClemRutter (talk) 19:06, 30 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ Oxford, Bletchley & Bedford Line Through Time. Stanley C. Jenkins, Martin Loader Amberley Publishing Limited, 15 Jun 2013
  2. ^ Engineer's Line References RailwayCodes.org
  3. ^ http://www.railwaycodes.org.uk/elrs/_mileages/b/bbm.shtm
  4. ^ http://www.railwaycodes.org.uk/elrs/_mileages/o/oxd.shtm

Flyover road crossings[edit]

@John Maynard Friedman: I believe that you are still getting the geometry of the flyover confused. Google maps may be of use for correcting this. I have also drawn an svg map, which is on the right. WT79 (speak to me | editing patterns | what I been doing) 13:39, 28 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Drat. So I am. I've got the two bridges over Buckingham Road in the wrong order. Sorry for wasting your time. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 14:08, 28 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

RDTs[edit]

Given my wonderful success rate so far, I'm leaving this firmly for someone else to do (or not). Do we need give the East West Rail RDT twice in the article? (Personally I prefer RDTs to be at the end because it is always expanded for mobile users, which I suspect means that they stop reading further). --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 14:14, 28 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Is there actually any problem with having it twice? It's not like the page is going to break the size limit soon, so why not? The East-West Rail RDT is clearly related to the East-West Rail section, but having them together as well is also useful. Any thoughts? WT79 (speak to me | editing patterns | what I been doing) 16:13, 28 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Having the same RDT twice in an article is unnecessary, redundant, and repetitive. AlgaeGraphix (talk) 14:17, 13 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

But deleting the lot?[edit]

I reverted a bold edit by AlgaeGraphix, who deleted every RDT appended to the article. Per WP:BRD, this subsection is to invite explanation and comment.

  • In my view, all of these RDTs are relevant because they all describe historic, current and planned lines through the station.
  • Most station articles have similar RDTs, though to be fair, most only have a "railway lines around X" RDT
  • I recognise a case to eliminate all but template:Milton Keynes railway map but it needs discussion. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 14:10, 13 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Regardless of their relevance (or lack thereof), I nonetheless think that {{Milton Keynes railway map}} (which is actually a diagram, but I digress) should immediately follow the infobox to provide location context. AlgaeGraphix (talk) 14:17, 13 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you, I agree. I had a look at Bristol Temple Meads, Swindon, Oxford and Didcot Parkway and none have RDTs for the lines passing through. Wikipedia:WikiProject Trains/Style advice has nothing to say on the subject, but I think we have to respect 'custom and practice'. I will delete all but the MK map (which, btw, is a map, just like the tube map - not all maps are exact replicas of reality, notably the Mercator projection and the Mappa Mundi. But I also digress.)
After a look around, there appears to be no convention to place the local context map just under the infobox. So I have left it at the 'see also'. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 14:49, 13 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
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