Talk:Bob Katter/Archive 1

Lebanese Australian?

The category "Lebanese Australians" has been placed on this article, but there's no mention of ethnic background here. Does he have Lebanese ancestry or is this someone's prank? Tale 02:38, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

It looks like there was an earlier version of this article which mentioned that his father was a Lebanese Australian, but that was removed. I think it should be variied if it is to be left it. -- Adz|talk 03:22, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

It's no prank. Bob's father (Robert Katter Sr) was of Lebanese origin. Katter is a Lebanese name, and Bob has sometimes referred to his Lebanese ancestry. [1] Ordinary Person 14:24, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

I have restored the information on his ethnicity. References for the ethnicity of his father (Bob Katter snr) can be found on the article of his father. Obviously, if Bob Katter snr has Lebanese ancestry, so does Bob Katter jnr.

As a matter of interest, I mention that Katter and Qatar are different transliterations of the same Arabic word.

I can't provide a direct link, but you can search the Hansard using Parlinfo, to see Barry Jones's comments on the death of Bob Katter snr:

I want to add a few words of tribute to Bob Katter, a man whom I liked very much. His background was even more interesting and complex than the previous tributes have indicated. He certainly came from a pioneering family in Queensland, but it was a pioneering family with a difference-a Lebanese family. The original family name should be transcribed as Kat'r. The affectionate description of him as `the old camel driver' really reflects this Middle Eastern origin. He was a cousin of the famous romantic poet Kahlil Gibran. I remember pointing this out to Gough Whitlam. Gough replied, `If I had only known, I would have had my staff combing the works of the Prophet'.

Ordinary Person (talk) 02:23, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

I think it's pretty clear his dad was of Lebanese descent, but that doesn't mean it's automatically relevant to this article. Around five generations ago my various great-great grandparents migrated from Sweden, Germany, Ireland, etc, etc, but I don't identify as "of Swedish descent". After a couple of generations its irrelevant. Since Katter snr was born in Australia, Katter jnr is just Australian, like me. As such, I think we can remove the category too. Donama (talk) 05:33, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Some news article has reprinted some comment about his "Lebanese heritage". I the spirit of other BLP's I really don't see the need to have this in the article, given both his parents were born here -- certainly his dad, who is the one with clear Lebanese heritage. Donama (talk) 07:59, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Seems to me as though there is a xenophobic tone to these authors. His grandfather was born in Lebanon and migrated to Australia. Does this mean he is not of Lebanese descent. This article clearly states he is of Lebanese descent: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/bob-katter-plays-hard-in-crusade-for-the-bush/story-fn59niix-1225909099589 The category of Lebanese Australian should be restored and the fact he is Lebanese Australian should be mentioned in the main text. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.107.122.28 (talk • contribs)

To me the inclusion of information about distant Lebanese heritage is xenophobic, since in Australia it's a political deficit, especially for politicians voted in by the kinds of whitebread Aussies who participated in the 2005 Cronulla riots. Distant ethnic roots of other public figures are rarely if ever mentioned. I say distant because I think there should be a cut-off for how many generations ago the ancestor was born outside Australia to deem ethnic background notable, especially in Australia, where non-Australian ethnic background is so common. In Katter's case, his parents were born in Australia, so, to me, "Lebanese ethnicity" is not notable enough to put here unless Katter himself makes a big deal about it and uses it as part of his political image. Donama (talk) 04:28, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

Mate, it is not up to you to decide what should be included or not included in an article. If it is a fact it should be included in the main text. See the Wikipedia entry of his father Bob Katter, Sr.. He is actually a distant relative of world renowned Lebanese poet Khalil Gibran. He also is from a respected Christian area in northern Lebanon, Becharre. See all the articles which state Katter has Lebanese heritage. Katter has made no attempt to hide his Lebanese ancestry like you are suggesting, and is in fact proud of his heritage. As an example of precedence, have a look at the Wikipedia page of federal Australia politician Joe Hockey. It makes numerous mentions of his Palestinian heritage, and he is elected by the people of North Sydney who have historically been 'whitebread Aussies' to quote one of your own terms. I will be forced to report you if you continue to remote the fact from the article as it is a form of vandalism. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 211.30.185.44 (talk • contribs) 02:42, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

1. I'm more than happy for you to "report" me for being prudent in application of the living persons biographies policy (WP:BLP).

2. Katter has distant Lebanese heritage and every now and then a new editor will come along and add it in to the very beginning of the article. I would have no problem with this except that ethnicity and race are not scientific thus are not hard facts and this has been well discussed in various places all over Wikipedia. The general consensus is that in a biography of a living person, unless the person self-identifies as such and such an ethnicity or race, then it should not be included. An example of this I've seen is the discussion around whether UK Labor leader, Ed Miliband, is Jewish and whether it should be included in the article. The complicating factor in that of course is that it indicates religion as well depending on how to interpret the word.

3. In the spirit of demanding watertight evidence and rationale for controversial content in living persons biographies can I ask that we await more comments from independent editors before re-adding this. I've put a notice at WP:AWNB to get some attention. Cheers, Donama (talk) 04:27, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

Quite a few reliable sources have chosen to mention his Lebanese descent. I see no good reason why we should not do the same. We shouldn't avoid mention of ethnic background merely because there is a chance that a few wackjobs might consider it reflects negatively on the subject. I could equally speculate that some Australians would learn of his mixed heritage and consider it a good trait. Self-identification is helpful but not a requirement. We have enough reliable sources available to meet WP:V easily. --Mkativerata (talk) 04:27, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

@Donama. I don't see how this is in any way controversial content. It is merely a fact about the ancestory of a great Australian. No one else, other than you, consider there to be an issue. I concur with Mkativerata's comments. Numerous sources refer to his ancestry, as does his fathers Wikipedia entry. There is absolutely no reason what so ever why you keep removing this. As Mkativerata points out, there is in no way any violation of Wikipedia's policy. Also, if your 2nd point were to be adhered to, every Australian politician would have to have their cultural background removed from their profile. Again, look at Joe Hockey, a prominent right-wing politician who's profile refers to his Palestinian ancestry. Same goes for Michael Costa (politician), Steve Georganas whose pages refer to their Greek ancestry. There are countless other examples. Hence, I have reverted the article back to the one before Donama's edits which includes information regarding Katter's Lebanese heritage. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 211.30.185.44 (talk • contribs) 07:44, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

I don't think we should neglect to mention something because it reflects negatively, Mkativerata. As I said, I'm happy to include this. I see this only as a question of accuracy if the subject doesn't self-identify as ethnicity X. (What percentage of ancestry still makes it relevant, given the new ethnicities/genes injected at each generation)? In the case I take both yours and the anonymous point that it's been reported by mainstream media so presumably an important point of self-identification to Katter. Donama (talk) 23:42, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

For the record his grandfather was from Lebanon, his grandmother is a Murri, and his mother was of Irish descent. He can self identify in a number of ways. In most contexts I don't think anyone would hold the fact that he is a Murri or Lebanese Australian or anything else against him. We are all Australians. For some his ancestory is a positive. Once that got going on the Murri grape vine do you think Murris were voting LNP at the State election? Think again. Anyway Bob himself is the Federal leader and most think it is about time we had a Murri PM but unfortunately Australians are too racist to vote him in. In that context unfortunately his ethicity probably will make a difference to people.Yeenar (talk) 12:00, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

I believe this talk of Lebanese Australian may be a direct response to a video in which Bob Katter Jnr supports "sending muslims home" and then hotly denies that his grandfather was Lebanese, saying "he's an Australian!" calling a reporter racist for suggesting so. Video: 203.217.142.241 (talk) 22:54, 19 August 2018 (UTC)

Nice image

I haven't seen that one before. Well done. Timeshift 16:29, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Can we change this image? Seems like a politically charged image. We wouldn't post an image of Ed Miliband eating a sandwich as his main portrait -- I'm not sure why we're using this one. 99KingHigh (talk) 04:31, 14 April 2016 (UTC)

Wikipedia can only use freely-licensed photos of living people, and there are no better ones of Katter at the moment. The only way this can be improved is if Katter's office decides to release a more flattering freely-licensed event or someone manages to catch him at a public event, take one themselves, and upload it to Wikipedia. The Drover's Wife (talk) 04:56, 14 April 2016 (UTC)

Comments on race

From a non queensland perspective, my impression is that Katter's national profile is mostly associated with his views on race, such as his commentary on aboriginal social assistance, his criticism of "little slanty-eyed ideologues who persecute ordinary, average Australians", and his criticism of "political correctness". Anyone have any ideas of presentation of this on this page?Spamburgler (talk) 03:00, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Preceeded by Rob Hulls?

If Katter was preceeded by a Rob Hulls it surely isn't the Victorian politician linked in the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pav5088 (talk • contribs) 07:33, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

Yes, in fact it is. The Victorian politician moved to Vic from Queensland. Frickeg (talk) 07:35, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

Remove NPOV

A few days ago this article had a significant number of unsubstaintiated statements in need of refs and citations. There have been a large number of articles about Katter in the media in the past week. Thankfully, this has enabled the previous statements to be referenced. The question now remains does this article still hold NPOV? Jherschel (talk) 06:24, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

Just as a clarification, NPOV is what we want. POV is what we don't want. Timeshift (talk) 06:25, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

The tag should be removed, as there hasn't been any specific discussion about it. Katter is somewhat similar to Wilson Tuckey in that his views are regarded nationally as extreme (eg. he voted for homosexuality to be criminalised in Tasmania). He's regularly described as a maverick. So the things he gets attention for are usually extreme or maverick. Or bananas. If people know of mundane things that Katter has done, they should add them.--Lester 09:35, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

NPOV issues

The "political views" section in this article is appallingly biased against Katter. It essentially amounts to a list of (mostly long-forgotten) controversial remarks he's made over the years, most of which has bugger all to do with the issues he's actually vocal about. He's one of the few Australian MPs for which a very good section could be written about his actual personal views, but this sure ain't it. Rebecca (talk) 14:28, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

I agree with this. He has wide ranging views from the reintroduction of protectionism to support for the National Broadband Network. He could also, perhaps, be described as a nationalist Queenslander because of the way he promotes the cause of his state passionately. Much of what is there should remain, but only in an expanded article.--Senor Freebie (talk) 09:02, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

"Independents are on the nose, led by Katter"

Does anyone know much about the Crikey Article that seems to have gone missing? Very interesting if there's some polling somewhere to show that the independent who supported the Coalition is faring the worst. Timeshift (talk) 05:23, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

Katter's Australian Party or independent?

KAP became an AEC-registered party[2] and I'm sure that his parliament profile[3] was changed to reflect this. However, it currently says independent. I recall someone mentioning somewhere on wikipedia saying that in light of the change of his profile to reflect the KAP, it removes all doubt. Thoughts? Timeshift (talk) 05:54, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

Photo

I used to see Bob Katter coming and going in Brisbane quite a bit and I think the more recent photo *is* a lot more like him today (albeit unflattering) than the much earlier photo substituted. I think we should revert to the more recent photo as it is more accurate of the man today. Kerry (talk) 23:22, 2 June 2016 (UTC)

I've never seen a worse angle taken, it made me sad :( Timeshift (talk) 23:35, 2 June 2016 (UTC)

I dunno. I shows him as he is -- a man of strong views not afraid to speak out. The ideal photo would have him wearing his hat (I always saw him wearing it), but we are limited to what we can get freely-licensed (big sigh). Kerry (talk) 23:39, 2 June 2016 (UTC)

As a man who got .5% of the votes and shouldnt be in office?Thelawlollol (talk) 07:40, 3 July 2016 (UTC)

0.5%? Looks like he is winning Division of Kennedy [4] Kerry (talk) 07:50, 3 July 2016 (UTC)

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Requested move 5 December 2017

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved. No need to wait the full week for this. Jenks24 (talk) 09:31, 8 December 2017 (UTC)

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Bob Katter Jr. → Bob Katter – Recently boldly moved by Dicklyon (talk · contribs) and now can't be undone without discussion. He is literally never referred to as "Bob Katter Jr." unless his father is also mentioned (which is rarely). This Katter is very obviously the primary topic for Bob Katter. Frickeg (talk) 06:08, 5 December 2017 (UTC)

• Oppose – WP:JR says "Using Jr., Sr., or other such distinctions as a disambiguation technique is advised only for cases in which the name with the suffix is well-attested in reliable sources." That's certainly the case here, with over 600 books doing it this way. And disambiguation is in order, as Bob Katter Sr. had the same job before him and is also very well known. Even if he is primarytopic for Bob Katter, the more precise title is helpful. Dicklyon (talk) 06:26, 5 December 2017 (UTC)
  • Google says 644 results, but stops showing any after 23, so not quite sure what's going on there (try looking at page 4 of that search). All the ones listed there are referring to him as "Katter Jr" when he was a state MP (i.e. at the time when his father was also the federal member). Since the mid-90s he has been overwhelmingly known as simply "Bob Katter". Frickeg (talk) 06:30, 5 December 2017 (UTC)
• Support As Frickeg says, Bob Katter is his common name today. Also it is not Australian practice to use "Jr" or "Sr" as part of a name, unlike in the USA. When people need to disambiguate in real life, they may add the word junior or senior but only as a disambiguation in the same way as we disambiguate Texas, Queensland on Wikipedia but its name is still plain Texas. I would see "(senior)", "(junior)" as preferable to present them more as Wikipedia disambiguations rather than common name disambiguations, which the Jr/Sr implies. Kerry (talk) 10:34, 5 December 2017 (UTC)
  • I probably should add that this is a highly visible politician noted for his very forthright views expressed in ways that tend to attract a lot of media attention. Very much a household name, unlike many of his peers. Kerry (talk) 10:54, 5 December 2017 (UTC)
• Support. Extremely rarely referred to by the current title. We're limited by the naming convention (re Jr./Sr. if included), but otherwise Kerry is exactly right. The Drover's Wife (talk) 16:32, 5 December 2017 (UTC)
• Support per all the above support and WP:COMMONNAME. Recommend resolving ambiguities with father and son with hatnotes on this article. Donama (talk) 00:02, 6 December 2017 (UTC)
• Support per the above and per the similar case of Kim Beazley. In both cases usage of the name alone is taken to mean the son and references to the father are qualified. Timrollpickering 19:01, 6 December 2017 (UTC)

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Fraser Anning POV Issue

Labelling Katter as being "associated with white supremacy" is misleading and inaccurate, as the views Senator Anning expressed were not in favour of white people ruling over non-whites, but may be better and more accurately described nativist, or nationalist (even white nationalist). To use the same terminology for someone who shares the views of Robert Menzies as is commonly used in association with terrorists or violent ideologues is unacceptably biased. Jonosbro (talk) 10:55, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

On economic issues...

On economic issues, like his father, Katter retains elements of 1950s Labor policy, including opposition to privatisation and economic deregulation.

That was not really 1950s Labor policy, because in the 1950s no one was privatising or deregulating anything. Much of the privatisation and deregulation was done by Labor, not by the Coalition, in the 1970s and 1980s. This is misleading in that it suggests the position is a Labor one and that it belongs back in the 1950s, whereas it was generally held up to the 1970s and 1980s. I will amend the text.--Jack Upland (talk) 10:55, 16 August 2018 (UTC)