Talk:Book of Mormon monetary system

This article was nominated for deletion on 22 December 2023. The result of the discussion was no consensus.

A fact from Book of Mormon monetary system appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 13 December 2023 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that it is debated whether or not Nephites used minted coins?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2023/December. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Book of Mormon monetary system.

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Heidi Pusey BYU (talk · contribs) has been paid by BYU. Their editing has included contributions to this article.
Rachel Helps (BYU) (talk · contribs) has been paid by BYU. Their editing has included contributions to this article. COI declarations on userpage

James Moss[edit]

I can't find for the life of me who James Moss is and what his religious affiliation is. There are literally several people named "James Moss" that come up when I try to find the right one. Heidi Pusey BYU (talk) 23:01, 23 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Did you know nomination[edit]

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Bruxton talk 22:20, 5 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment or view
Article history

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... that it is debated whether or not Nephites used minted coins? Source: 1) Skousen, Royal (2005). Analysis of Textual Variants of the Book of Mormon: THE CRITICAL TEXT OF THE BOOK OF MORMON. Vol. 4, Part 3. Provo, Utah, USA: Foundation for Ancient Research and Mormon Studies. p. 1812.
2) Sorenson, John L. (1985). An Ancient American Setting for the Book of Mormon. Salt Lake City, Utah, USA: Deseret Book. p. 233. ISBN 0-87747-608-X.
3)Takagi, Shinji (2022). "Gold, Silver, and Grain". BYU Studies Quarterly. 61 (2): 8–10 – via BYU ScholarsArchive.
- Reviewed:

Created by Heidi Pusey BYU (talk). Self-nominated at 22:57, 9 November 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Book of Mormon monetary system; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.[reply]

Interesting. QPQ done, date, size, refs, hook's neutrality, all GTG. Minor issues such as ref Bingman needing page numbers are not needed to be addressed at DYK level IMHO. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 01:29, 10 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Heidi Pusey BYU and Piotrus: I am unable to access the references for hook. I note that the nominator only has 300 edits and two months experience and the editor is paid and it is disclosed here Bruxton (talk) 22:19, 5 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Bruxton and Piotrus: Two of the references are books. If you would like, I scanned the relevant pages and uploaded them to box so you can review them. Here is the link: [1]The other reference (Takagi) is an online article; I have now added the link to the nomination so that the article is accessible. I acknowledge that I am paid to edit; however, I have performed extensive research for the article. If you find any other problems with the article, please let me know. Heidi Pusey BYU (talk) 03:52, 5 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Heidi Pusey BYU and Bruxton: Per AGF and reply above, I am still fine with this being promoted as DYK. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 04:10, 6 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Lede[edit]

I think the lede needs to be completely rewritten. As it stands, it doesn't give any context as to why the monetary system is important or why anybody should care about it. And it doesn't give any general touchstones that an average reader would recognize. By the second sentence we've already name-dropped like 6 weird Mormon names (amonihah and zeezerom?) that mean nothing to anybody, but haven't yet linked to Book of Mormon. ~Awilley (talk) 04:29, 7 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You have a good point. The lede could definitely use more context, so I'll start working on that. I'm currently working on another big project, so I might not get to it immediately. If you feel like fixing the lede is urgent, you're welcome to start rewriting it. Feel free to reach out if you notice anything else! Thank you for your perspective, and I hope you have a wonderful day. Heidi Pusey BYU (talk) 23:59, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Arguably, one of the reasons to have an article like this is to highlight the absolute absurdity of the claims that this is anything but a complete confabulation. I added a sentence pointing out how anachronistic all this is. More work needs to be done. jps (talk) 14:10, 12 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

NPOV Tag[edit]

Although the fairly recent AfD discussion may have been overly zealous, I do believe that the issues the nominator raised were cogent. The article credulously treats the Nephite monetary system as fact, and repeats various aspects of the Book of Mormon narrative in granular detail. To my knowledge, there is little or no agreement in mainstream scientific communities that any of the Book of Mormon is real. The article's discussion of it without a single disclaimer from start to finish, strongly suggests a POV that is out of the mainstream - and therefore not appropriate for a mainstream article like Wikipedia. I'm going to work on some things, but overall I think many sections will need to be rewritten. Trevdna (talk) 00:41, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]