Talk:Brighton Icebergers/Archive 1

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I have to apologize for proposing this article for deletion, I'm not sure how I missed the citations that clearly substantiate that the Icebergers are notable.

However, it does have some content that borders on WP:TRIVIA that doesn't really comply with Wikipedia's manual of style. If it's deleted, the article will be significantly improved. Rosguill^talk 03:27, 5 September 2018 (UTC)

Was?

Does anyone know if Terry Pritchard (nickname Terry Ten times) was a member of the Brighton Icebergers before he died in 2019? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Celco85 (talk • contribs) 13:04, 23 December 2020 (UTC) Speaking of which what does Terry ten times mean? why was Terry called that? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Celco85 (talk • contribs) 01:03, 24 December 2020 (UTC) Is it a bird a plane no its Terry ten times — Preceding unsigned comment added by Celco85 (talk • contribs) 01:05, 24 December 2020 (UTC)

John Locco was Mayor of Brighton in 1992 he had a fist fight with Baths Manager Mark Greene at the baths can that be mentioned in the article? https://www.parliament.vic.gov.au/images/stories/volume-hansard/smaller/Hansard%2052%20LC%20V410%20Mar-Apr1993/VicHansard_19930316_19930330.pdf

Can this link also be added to the article? his contempt for Max Kellerman is great. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVXE22-6aS0

A random YouTube video is not a reliable source - no, nothing can be added to the article based on that.

I don't know what you are talking about with regards to the fist fight - what exactly does that Hansard link say about it (you haven't provided a page number). GirthSummit _(blether) 09:59, 25 December 2020 (UTC)

Page 38 of the Hansard and can this be added to the page its the legend the one & only John Locco in it talking about the baths in 1986 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxBa30bD5qw — Preceding unsigned comment added by Celco85 (talk • contribs) 10:06, 25 December 2020 (UTC)

Celco85, Hansard's a primary source - do any secondary sources talk about it? Eg newspapers. I don't think the YouTube vid would fly per WP:EL. GirthSummit _(blether) 10:40, 25 December 2020 (UTC)

What about this link it mentions on a google search how Locco and Greene traded blows https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/120463986/ This podcast has some interesting pictures in it https://oceanfit.com.au/john-locco/

I'm not sure the podcast is reliable, but the newspaper report probably is. Do you think the fight is really relevant to an article about a swimming club - was it about something to do with the club? GirthSummit _(blether) 15:25, 25 December 2020 (UTC)

I looked at the reference and threw it out; it is about an allegation of misconduct against one or more people, its content was being misrepresented in the version of the article that I edited, and is way out of scope for this article, as are Locco's political views. @Celco85: let me draw your attention to WP:NOTFORUM; some of your comments are so far off the mark with respect to neutrality and our policy on living people that I would advocate revision deletion, and your edits are under discussion at AN/I; I think you should go there as soon as possible and respond to the concerns raised rather than continuing to try to put irrelevant material into this article. Yngvadottir (talk) 19:48, 25 December 2020 (UTC)

Yes the punch up at the club was about a kiosk Locco it was on A current affair back in the 90's when Locco was Mayor of Brighton. Brighton council was abolished by Kennett. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Celco85 (talk • contribs) 03:33, 26 December 2020 (UTC) The punch up is relevant as it involved the club manager and Locco. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Celco85 (talk • contribs) 03:35, 26 December 2020 (UTC)

Was Terry Pritchard in the Brighton Icebergers? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Celco85 (talk • contribs) 09:12, 26 December 2020 (UTC)

Locco did say Kennett was socially demented in the Age article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Celco85 (talk • contribs) 10:36, 26 December 2020 (UTC)

The Icebergers and Locco did swim 7 kilometres Celco85 ~ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Celco85 (talk • contribs) 03:51, 3 January 2021 (UTC) The photo I uploaded and put back on this page is from inside the actual Baths health club, can that photo remain in the article? -Celco85Celco85 (talk) 03:53, 3 January 2021 (UTC) They swam from Brighton to Blackrock as the 2005 article mentions that, is that okay that is mentioned in the article? Celco85--Celco85 (talk) 03:55, 3 January 2021 (UTC)

Is it alright this article that mentions the 1.4km swim Ted Baillieu did be added to the page. -Celco85-Celco85 (talk) 04:00, 3 January 2021 (UTC) https://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/special-features/brighton-iceberger-next-premier-ted-baillieu-says-hes-there-are-lots-of-votes-still-out-there/news-story/a7687c79a4c8cb790c58e6f0d05a55c8

Reversions 3 January 2021

See User talk:Celco85 Fleet Lists (talk) 04:31, 3 January 2021 (UTC)

Can this?

Can this be placed back in the article? https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/brighton-icebergers-swim-on-as-3m-shark-spotted-in-water-off-beach-ng-5ef4299b04734c9aefb40a13d422d016 --~Celco85Celco85 (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 10:58, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

The consensus has been to delete this, so unless that changes, the answer is No. Fleet Lists (talk) 21:26, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

Sea swim boom

Can this article be added to the page? https://www.smh.com.au/sport/swimming/euphoric-why-is-there-a-boom-in-sea-swimming-and-is-it-better-for-you-20201218-p56opp.html -Celco85-Celco85 (talk) 08:25, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

The article certainly makes mention if the Brighton Icebergers. But I would like to see how you would word it in the article ie it must be relevant to the article the way it is worded so that there would be no reword requited once it is there. Fleet Lists (talk) 08:34, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

I did some more research on this last night and found there is nothing in the article which adds to Brighton Icebergers but I found this article Winter swimming which only covered New South Wales in Australia and not Victoria. So this morning I have added Victoria where the SMH article is a good reference. So it is good in that respect. Fleet Lists (talk) 22:02, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

History of Icebergers article

Can this article be added to the page? https://brighton-icebergers.org.au/our-history --Celco85Celco85 (talk) 06:25, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

@Yngvadottir and Deepfriedokra:That depends on what you want to use it for. References should not be added just for the sake of adding a reference. And if you do find a valid reason for adding it, please format it correctly. You have now been asked so many times to do that. You should not rely on other editors cleaning up your formatting errors or omissions. An unformatted reference added today to this article was deleted because it did not appear to relate to anything in the article. Fleet Lists (talk) 07:07, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

Too promo. Self source. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 07:42, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for asking, Celco85. I'd be inclined to use it if it added anything useful; the only thing I see there that's relevant and not already clear is that there are in fact two branches of the club, which explains the two home pages and the different things stated in different press articles. So I bow to the others' feeling that it doesn't add enough to be worth adding; that's the first home page listed under External links, so the reader will find it easily if they want to. I feel more strongly that the film reference wasn't a useful addition; we already have that film adequately referenced, this was just about a showing of it. Yngvadottir (talk) 08:58, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

I have added an explanation for the two clubs using the article in question as reference and also included a Google Map reference to show where the two clubs are in relation to each other. I dont think any further use of the article is needed. Fleet Lists (talk) 10:13, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

Climate article

Can this article which has a photo of John Locco posing for a photographer laying down on a pier? can this be mentioned on the page -Celco85-Celco85 (talk) 08:57, 13 January 2021 (UTC) --~Celco85Celco85 (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 08:55, 13 January 2021 (UTC)

No link shown to article in question. Fleet Lists (talk) 09:09, 13 January 2021 (UTC)

This was the link --Celco85Celco85 (talk) 09:18, 13 January 2021 (UTC) https://www.smh.com.au/technology/climate-council-reports-warmest-september-on-record-20131003-2uv76.html

I cannot see this article which is over seven years old where the facts are likely to be out of date and where the Icebergers only get a fleeting mention, contributing anything to the Icebergers article. Fleet Lists (talk) 09:45, 13 January 2021 (UTC)

@Celco85: see below. Yngvadottir (talk) 04:08, 15 January 2021 (UTC)

Can this link?

Can Flickr be used as a citation like one of the photos has John Locco holding a Port Philip bay swimming trophy and another has the one and the only Terry Pritchard https://www.flickr.com/photos/brightonicebergers/1110383788/in/photolist-2G3km4-2G8s2h-2G3L6Z-2G7LFS-2G3Jok-2G46Lp-2G8tWo-2G2MYF-2G2oQX-2G8CeC-2G35yX-2G7cps-2G7TPy-2G3Prg-2G6TvG-2G81q5-2G8DT5-2G15Lk-2G8cYm-2G3MUk-2G8bs9-2G6Rxy-2G3qdv-2G7z9u-2G3bkn-2G3msV-2G36Zv-2G8fuC-2G8jnL-2G4gFn-2G6ZmJ-2G33Fc-2G3dxF-2G2nqK-2G6Vzb-2G31tZ-2G7Bqq-2G2qBM-2G2CJ8-2G3YkR-2G2QcF-2G7eCQ-2G7hcL-J4GENy-GpDGsX-Jic4NJ-GntzVZ-Kd3niX-GMY5Bz-LYfsNX -Celco85-Celco85 (talk) 09:35, 13 January 2021 (UTC)

Flickr is usually not considered an acceptable reference as has been mentioned to you before and this one in particular does not appear to contribute anything.Fleet Lists (talk) 09:45, 13 January 2021 (UTC)

The Baths was built in 1881 as mentioned in this source https://issuu.com/mediaflash/docs/ob_18jul12_az/4

Is the Melbourne Observer a valid source? --Celco85Celco85 (talk) 12:30, 14 January 2021 (UTC)

I have incorporated that reference to add David Brooks (comedian) to the list of notable swimmers; it also supported my original impression that he's primarily a comedian and only incidentally a filmmaker. However, I have not included the link to issuu in the reference; it violates copyright. The problem with using that reference is not that it's in the Melbourne Observer; there's nothing inherently wrong with local papers, including those without online archives, but note that you must include the specifics of the reference: author, exact title, publication name, and date, and in this instance it also requires page number, particularly for offline references. (Incidentally here: the syntax for citation templates uses curly brackets, {{, not square brackets, [[, which make a wikilink. The most important part of a reference, however, is the <ref></ref> tags, and the second most important, identifying the reference. Citation templates are not mandatory.) It's that you proposed using it for the year the baths were built. This article is not about the baths! You may want to consider writing an article about the baths themselves, but I would advise against it; none of the sources indicate it is an actual registered historic building. Please stop looking for sources and proposing to use them, much less actually inserting them in the article, on the basis that they are about the baths or John Locco. This is called coatracking and it degrades the article rather than improve it. As a matter of fact the year the baths were founded is right there on one of the two home pages for the Icebergers, and the reader will find it there and probably in some of the news sources we cite, if they are interested. Yngvadottir (talk) 04:08, 15 January 2021 (UTC)

Mark Greene

This article mentions the punch up Mayor Locco and Mark got into at the Baths it was so prominent it the incident ended up on a Current Affair with Tracy Grimshaw --Celco85Celco85 (talk) 12:25, 14 January 2021 (UTC) https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/120463986/

I can't see that, but I explained my rationale for not including the incident either in an edit summary, here or on a user talk page, or at the AfD: it's off-topic (coatracking) and reflects badly on Locco (a living person who is not notable enough to have an article, let alone have us go out of our way to point out possible misdeeds). Please stop searching for, proposing, let alone inserting material on the basis that it's about Locco or one of his relatives. The article above that only mentions the Icebergers in the caption to a (less than flattering) photo of Locco lying on the seafront is a prime example. Totally unsuitable for inclusion, and you can only be proposing it because there's a pic of Locco in it. Yngvadottir (talk) 04:08, 15 January 2021 (UTC)

Dredging article

Can this article about the Dredging back placed back into the article the dredging was happening back over a decade ago something that was done by the Brumby Government in Victoria to make the bay deeper.--Celco85Celco85 (talk) 13:01, 14 January 2021 (UTC)

You omitted the link again, but as I recall the answer is that the reference added no useful information about the club. Yngvadottir (talk) 04:08, 15 January 2021 (UTC)