Talk:Brooke Fraser

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Personal Life[edit]

I've removed the personal life details. I don't see where they really add much in the way of content to the article. The subject has also requested this, and in the interest of doing the right thing, I think this is something we can do. Best, NonvocalScream (talk) 12:11, 9 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Are you in contact with the subject? I think some of what you removed actually adds to the article. The biography should entail more than just her work as a musician. Killiondude (talk) 16:59, 9 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The information on this page has been carefully and thoughtfully built from public sources by the various editors. As Killiondude indicates, it is also material which is generally appropriate for a Wikipedia biography. If editors wish to improve the article it needs to be done element-by-element with an explanation and if necessary a discussion, and not as a single unilateral removal. Webmink (talk) 04:24, 15 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The references to "Hosanna" and "Lead Me To The Cross" keep being removed from this section without explanation. Both are substantiated as Brooke's work by the attached YouTube videos, officially posted by Hillsong, where Brooke describes writing them. The references appear both informative and valid and I see no reason for their removal. Webmink (talk) 01:39, 19 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Her involvement with Hillsong is a large part of her popularity. I don't know why it's been edited out of this article the way it has, but she's spent significant amounts of time touring with Hillsong United, speaking at their conferences, etc. It is a significant and notable part of her identity for the purposes of this encyclopedia, independent of any desire on anyone's part to distance her pop music artist persona from her role as a songwriter, worship leader, and speaker on the Hillsong platform. Tags have been removed, but she is indeed a Christian songwriter and a Hillsong musician. She sings, plays guitar, and writes songs for Hillsong albums/tours which are purchased/attended by thousands and thousands of people, whether it is as a 'volunteer' or not. Slow Graffiti (talk) 23:57, 27 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The subject herself seems to want to distance her "professional" career from her involvement with Hillsong. Not that I agree, I'm just explaining what's happening here and why some editors feel the need to remove that information. Killiondude (talk) 00:06, 28 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

That the subject wishes to distinguish her "professional" career from her involvement with Hillsong is interpretive language used by one of the writers/editors of the article. If you check the source you will see that it references only an objection to the commercialism of the "Contemporary Christian music" industry. On Wikipedia, "Christian Music" and "Contemporary Christian music" have two separate pages, because they are two separate things. Christian music is any music made with a Christian theme, "Contemporary Christian music" is a particular industry of music, that has infact come under criticism by individuals other than Brooke Fraser. The nature of her criticism is therefore not unfamiliar to most modern Christians and should not be distorted by editors into a desire not to be publicly identified with one strain of her own music. She is a maker of "Christian music" (according to Wikipedia's definition of that term). This is a part of her public persona and what she is known to the world for, and therefore it in part defines her biographically. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.14.229.150 (talk) 17:03, 20 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I have been going through sections of the article, and semi-rewriting them with reliable and properly formatted references. I may have removed some of the above mentioned material.Feel free to add something, as long as you reference it. Adabow (talk · contribs) 04:32, 28 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

You are right, her Christian music is part of her career and life and should not be removed either from the musical tags or the description of her general occupation on the basis of anti-religious bias or anything else. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.77.90.121 (talk) 16:00, 8 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Would the editors who continually delete the reference to her status as a creator of Christian music either cease doing so, or offer an argument in the discussion section for doing so, particularly in the light of what I have mentioned three paragraphs above this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.14.229.150 (talk) 19:11, 23 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Cleanup Tag[edit]

It's not obvious to me that this article needs a generic Cleanup tag any more - the article appears informative and NPOV and any issues are localised to specific sections that could be individually tagged if other editors are motivated to do so. I propose removing the tag from the top of the article. Webmink (talk) 15:30, 9 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I saw some external links in the article just now, so I'll go ahead and do a last cleanup and then possibly remove the cleanup tag. Netalarmtalk 22:01, 9 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Images needed to be updatd[edit]

Can someone change the image please Singyemojo (talk) 19:44, 15 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia only uses free images (see WP:IUP for more). The only images currently available are at Commons:Category:Brooke Fraser. Adabow (talk) 03:38, 16 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Removal[edit]

I have not been to this article in over a year and I see that there is a continuation of the trend that was around when I was last here of removing all references to her prominent Christian music career from the page without explanation. This really needs to stop. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 100.37.100.12 (talk) 05:40, 2 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

You'll have to talk to her management. Also, they were all explained. Walter Görlitz (talk) 05:54, 2 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
No it was not explained, just as your cryptic first sentence is unexplained. The discussion above the present one ended with an agreement that this material should be included and no subsequent discussion was added before the material was removed again.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 100.37.100.12 (talk) 2 January 2015
The article subject and her management contacted Wikipedia years ago with regard to content in the article. That doesn't necessarily mean much, but there you have it. If you find reliable sources that would help in expanding this biography, then by all means you can edit the article! Killiondude (talk) 05:48, 3 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I realize I'm a year late to this discussion, but can someone elaborate on this? It seems like a glaring omission for that entire aspect of Fraser's professional career to have been excised from this article, and all links to those articles severed, especially considering she's still (correctly) attributed for her significant contributions in several albums' articles, among other places. The connection is verifiable, and I would think there should be at least a paragraph noting her involvement, and "see also" links to Hillsong's discography, where appropriate. What's the justification for acceding to her management's wishes in this case? --Fru1tbat (talk) 15:11, 18 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
PoppyTohill (talk · contribs) was one of the editors who removed content, but there have been others such as 122.60.200.30 (talk · contribs). If we can find reliable sources, then I see no reason for excluding any content. Walter Görlitz (talk) 15:34, 18 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I'm assuming album credits are at least enough to justify the corresponding content? As for the rest, I've poked around for reliable sources discussing her and Hillsong, and unfortunately, they're not easy to find - she's been extremely careful in discussing anything in interviews for a while now, it seems. --Fru1tbat (talk) 15:47, 18 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
It looks like Walter Görlitz ritually removes any mention of Brooke as part of Hillsong every time a new edit is made containing those facts. What's the deal? You cannot use personal preferences to alter facts, dude. Here is a link to the Hillsong page which states that she and her husband release music with Hillsong and are a core part of the Hillsong leadership team: hillsong.com/contributor/brooke-ligertwood/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.177.219.197 (talk) 01:53, 9 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, I remove all unsourced and unexplained additions to all articles per WP:V. We operate based on references, not "facts". Walter Görlitz (talk) 07:10, 9 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Hey Walter Görlitz -- What the heck are you talking about? First off, your statement makes no sense. The sole reason for references is to substantiate claims that something is a fact. Secondly, I just gave you an authoritative reference supporting previously removed claims (as others have in the past). Additionally, one could argue that a solid body of witnesses attesting to the same claim counts as a reference. You haven't just removed questionable claims on details...you've ritually removed any notion that she is Christian or has anything to do with Hillsong Church's massive music scene. In one edit, you just removed the reference to her as a Christian. Where are your references, dude? Here, let me help you with some references: [1]. Can anyone give me guidance on how to report this guy? If you check his talk history, you'll see this is not the first time he's over-exerted himself. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:420:C0C4:1002:0:0:0:111 (talk) 14:20, 9 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
IO'm talking about WP:V. If references do not meet WP:RS, they should be removed. If you check my edit history, you'll see I make about 100 edits per day. Probability is that I'll annoy some editors. Walter Görlitz (talk) 15:54, 9 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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