Talk:Bullet Club

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Orphaned references in Bullet Club[edit]

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Bullet Club's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "DDT":

  • From Kenny Omega: "ケニー・オメガ". Dramatic Dream Team (in Japanese). Retrieved 2012-01-28.
  • From Kota Ibushi: "飯伏幸太". Dramatic Dream Team (in Japanese). Retrieved 2013-07-07.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 16:24, 8 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review[edit]

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Reviewing
This review is transcluded from Talk:Bullet Club/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Wugapodes (talk · contribs) 02:38, 21 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Reviewing. Wugapodes (talk) 02:38, 21 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Checklist[edit]

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

  1. Is it reasonably well written?
    A. Prose is "clear and concise", without copyvios, or spelling and grammar errors:
    B. MoS compliance for lead, layout, words to watch, fiction, and lists:
    need to ask about whether the topic should be treated as WP:WAF
  2. Is it factually accurate and verifiable?
    A. Has an appropriate reference section:
    B. Cites reliable sources, where necessary:
    C. No original research:
  3. Is it broad in its coverage?
    A. Major aspects:
    B. Focused (see summary style):
  4. Is it neutral?
    Fair representation without bias:
  5. Is it stable?
    No edit wars, etc:
  6. Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?
    A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid fair use rationales are provided for non-free content:
    B. Images are provided if possible and are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions:
  7. Overall:
    Pass or Fail:

Comments[edit]

  1. "professional wrestling stable" the term stable should not be used in the lead as it is jargon.
  2. Same with "promotion", the lead should be for people who don't know anything about professional wrestling and should not have jargon.
  3. the storyline was tweaked to them coming together "tweaked" is unencyclopedic, and the sentence is slightly confusing.
  4. The acronym "nWo" needs to be defined, as do all the three letter acronyms in "(like former NJPW stables C.T.U., G.B.H. and nWo)".
  5. though most of his matches featured outside interference from the rest of the Bullet Club.[36][37][38][39][40][41] WP:OVERCITE and possibly WP:OR as I'm guessing the large number of sources is to support the use of "most".
  6. I feel similarly about this sentence: On June 9, Devitt advanced to the finals of the tournament after defeating Kenny Omega in his semifinal match, again with help from Bullet Club.[42][43][44] though it seems less like WP:OR but this whole section could benefit from citation bundling.
  7. The "Under Prince Devitt's leadership (2013–2014)" section is far too long and could be summarized more. It does not need to be an exhaustive list of every match, just the most notable ones.
  8. The same for "Rebirth and championship dominance (2014–present)". The sections are far too large. If you don't think you can remove anything, breaking them up into subsections would help, but as it stands it's just two large intimidating blocks of text. I guess the question to be asking is, what do these events have to do with "bullet club" rather then the individual wrestlers or pairings? I mean, I know nothing about Pro Wrestling so maybe it's more than I know, but I'm not sure how much the events are aspects of the stable rather than aspects of the wrestlers, especially when it lists X wrestler won/defended Y title at Z time. Where the only connection is that X is part of bullet club.
  9. I don't know what the section "In wrestling" is. The title should be more clear as it doesn't give me an idea of what the content will be.
  10. The "In wrestling" section text also suffers from WP:OVERCITE but it's an optional thing to be dealt with as in this instance it doesn't harm readability.
  • Most of the sources are in Japanese, so I'm going to assume good faith and trust they are reliable.
  • I also am unsure of how writing about fiction applies in this case because most (all?) of this seems to be, as the article said, a storyline. I guess it would be similar to coverage of reality shows as the events invariably happened but they were part of storylines. I'll ask a couple people for input on this issue.
  • @Wugapodes: - as a member of WP:PW, I assure you it's utterly natural for the majority of this article to be about the group's storylines. starship.paint ~ KO 02:02, 22 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • That's what I thought. I looked through a couple other articles and the project's style guide before passing and realized that it was more common than I expected. Good to know for next time, and for other reviewers who ever ask about it. Thanks for the input! Wugapodes (talk) 02:26, 22 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  2. When has it ever been mentioned by WWE that Gallows and Anderson were named "The Club" in reference to their past membership in Bullet Club? To say such is assumptions and hearsay as it's never been implicitly stated. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.190.230.136 (talk) 07:51, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Results[edit]

On Hold for 7 days pending changes with possible extensions depending on progress. Wugapodes (talk) 04:02, 21 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Listed I think that the biggest hurdle for the article is the number of citations. I'd recommend a thorough look through to see what citations can be bundled, which ones are truly necessary per WP:CITE. Also, while the images are in line with WP:WIAGA, I think that a number of images could be cut down. Further, if you plan to seek FA status, I think the prose will need to be tightened up a lot. While it's clear, concise, and focused, I think that the quality of it could be enhanced. I would recommend a WP:Peer review. Congrats, and happy editing! Wugapodes (talk) 21:56, 21 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Membership of Jay White[edit]

Why was Jay White removed? By now Jay White is still in Bullet Club and still listed on NJPWs Website as a member and even if he goes to AEW he still could be in. With Juice Robinson another member of Bullet Club is also in AEW. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2003:F2:7725:16BA:666F:8CFA:CD34:CB1D (talk) 13:50, 12 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

House of Bullets[edit]

Has this phrase used as an alternate name for BC turned up enough to warrant mention? Heard it at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZstehrfaxvI&t=1m5s by the announcer and it's catchy but I haven't watched much NJPW so I don't know if it has appeared at other times. 184.145.18.50 (talk) 15:00, 25 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Haven't seen/heard it outside of that one mention. Don't think it's enough. リボン・サルミネン (Ribbon Salminen)(ZOOM) 15:54, 25 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Bullet League and Bullet Parade[edit]

Should we mention this in the background as a tentative name for the group Prince Devitt considered? He mentions this as Finn Balor in an interview with Chris Jericho at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e62jah03ehs&t=3m5s "there was Bullet Parade, Bullet League and bullet club" and Jericho quips "Bullet Boys" in response. 184.145.18.50 (talk) 15:29, 25 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Added. リボン・サルミネン (Ribbon Salminen)(ZOOM) 15:54, 25 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Gallows & Anderson in WWE[edit]

It should not be mentionned that they are Bullet Club if they are not named this way in WWE, for the moment.207.253.179.213 (talk) 04:44, 12 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Their WWE stuff doesn't belong on this article at all. They're not Bullet Club anymore. リボン・サルミネン (Ribbon Salminen)(ZOOM) 13:17, 12 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Then I believe the Gallows and Gun redirect to the Bullet Club page should be removed for a separate history of Gallows and Anderson's tag team career across New Japan, independent scene, and now WWE.--Brody's Ghost (talk) 04:45, 14 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Done. See Karl Anderson and Luke Gallows. リボン・サルミネン (Ribbon Salminen)(ZOOM) 14:34, 14 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The cross by Tanga Roa's name[edit]

I have seen this numerous times. What is it for? Should we remove it? Kirantheray (talk) 02:29, 2 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

It's a dagger. It's used to indicate a footnote. リボン・サルミネン (Ribbon Salminen)(ZOOM) 11:47, 2 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Membership of the Club[edit]

There's a lot of nonsense going on at the moment concerning the membership. People are being added and removed and it's about time some of them were discussed. There was no reason to remove The Young Bucks for instance. However it has been established in edit summaries that Gino Gambino is NOT a member, given that no source that is independent, reliable or not in violation of public relations rules seems to exist to confirm it. We need proper sourcing to be done in all respects otherwise there is just going to be oodles of edit warring between people who mean well but need to confirm stuff more firmly and with full respect to good sourcing, especially with the wrestling. 1.124.106.185 (talk) 10:55, 14 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Edit request 21 February 2018[edit]

Please revert the edit by User:Believeintheshield here]. This edit contains a source that - while reliable - makes no mention of Gambino being a member of the Bullet Club. Just because he tagged with current member Bad Luck Fale does not mean he's a member. Gambino is not a member of the Club. 101.189.132.146 (talk) 20:20, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Support - This is a WP:BLP violation even though the article isn't about a person. A claim is being made about a person (Gino Gambino) that is not proven to be true. NotMemberofBC (talk) 01:59, 22 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

  •  Done. He's not been treated as a member since that one-time tag pairing. oknazevad (talk) 02:24, 22 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I find sources to the contrary that list this person as a member, such as Australian Wrestler Gino Gambino Joins the Bullet Club and Gino Gambino Becomes The 13th Member Of The Bullet Club, is there an explanation for this? This "NotMemberofBC" user has been hyper-aggressive and rude about this since account creation, and I'd question their impartiality in this matter. TheValeyard (talk) 02:37, 22 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
As explained on BLPN, those sources are not reliable. See WP:PW and their sources page for confirmation. Never use 411 mania or The Sportster. NotMemberofBC (talk) 02:40, 22 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
How curious that a clique at a wiki-project can declare what is and is not a reliable source, something usually left to WP:RSN. Curioser still is how a brand-new account, i.e. you, have such detailed knowledge of inner Wikipedia workings. Any previous Wikipedia identities you'd need to disclose? TheValeyard (talk) 02:44, 22 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
No - IP editing only and for awhile. I actually didn't want to create an account but this forced my hand. WP:PW has a history of excellent work identifying unreliable sources, and as you could see there are a lot of them in pro wrestling. NotMemberofBC (talk) 02:48, 22 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you @Oknazevad: and there is a reason why Adam Gambino isn't being treated like a member. The stunt at MCW was driven by them and not by Fale, in order to help promote MCW's participation in the New Japan tour of Australia. Several MCW wrestlers appeared on the Melbourne show - Slex and Sexton call it home while many of the other Aussies on the show have worked at some point for MCW. Some also appeared on the shows in the other cities. It was a publicity stunt and nothing more. 101.189.132.146 (talk) 11:01, 22 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
This conversation is dumb as all hell. Here's an official NJPW advertisement for the recent New Japan tour in Australia that explicitly identifies Gambino as a member of the Club. [1] Dahumorist (talk) 08:59, 24 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Then why wasn't he on the current show with all the other members? It was a publicity stunt driven by MCW. He's not a formal member. If he was he'd be on the NJPW/ROH Honor Rising show. He's worked just one NJPW show in Japan and that's it - and that show never acknowledged he was a member. (IP Change from 101.189.132.146) 101.182.163.112 (talk) 23:04, 24 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The Australia shows are official NJPW-branded events. In their advertising, they list him as a member. You're just arguing personal semantics at this point. Dahumorist (talk) 00:06, 25 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Means nothing when Gambino has never been recognised as such in Japan - NJPW's home. Prove he is a member outside of Australia. Wait - you can't. Because he's not. It's a promotional stunt that you have fallen for. 101.182.163.112 (talk) 01:29, 25 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Why would official NJPW advertising mean nothing? Pretty sure NJPW has the authority here, not you. Dahumorist (talk) 18:16, 25 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Then where's the confirmation that he's a member by the NJPW media outlets? Fact - the tour was co-promoted by Bad Luck Fale and Melbourne City Wrestling under the NJPW name. The Gambino thing was a publicity stunt and meaningless. 101.182.163.112 (talk) 02:35, 26 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Edit request 27 February 2018[edit]

Please revert the edit by User:TheKinkdomMan here. This edit contains a primary source that is controversial and is therefore not permitted under WP:BLP. A reliable independent source is required, and there isn't one. Gambino is not a member of the Bullet Club - there is no reliable sourcing to prove this. 101.189.160.30 (talk) 22:53, 27 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Doesn’t matter which is required it is a reliable source witch vacates your claim therefore your in the wrong TheKinkdomMan (talk) 04:25, 28 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Read WP:BLP and recognise that you can't use a primary source (which current source is). The edit should be reverted under BLP as it is a controversial claim. 101.189.160.30 (talk) 07:26, 28 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The source is fine. Also, he is named as member of BC by NJPW. Even if it's a promotional tactic for Australian fans, he is an official member of Bullet Club --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 21:16, 1 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Done manually but I qualify this action with a suggestion that this be discussed in full. Controversy needs to be quelled to satisfy WP:BLP and the links given by HHH Pedigree don't give enough detail to really support the claim - it is weak at best even though it exists. I think it needs to be a lot stronger, hence my decision to support the edit request. Discussion strongly recommended. Addicted4517 (talk) 04:38, 3 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Gino Gambino Bullet club[edit]

As I’ve taken a look at the notice board, the Administrators are taken a look at the sources further more I don’t think anyone should remove Gambino which is provided with a reliable source, if anyone would like to take a look at the notice board go search the Bullet Club TheKinkdomMan (talk) 21:14, 3 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The source is primary and the claim is controversial so it MUST have an independent reliable secondary source under WP:BLP! The reversion was right - he shouldn't be there! You didn't tell the notice board you used THAT I'll bet! (Which one? Nothing's showing up on a skim) 101.189.95.32 (talk) 01:01, 4 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Thought as much. Checked your edits, and you weren't telling the truth. No notice board re the Bullet Club, and you were warned for edit warring as well. Admit you got it wrong and revert your edit. 101.189.95.32 (talk) 08:30, 4 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
First, the source is reliable since it's the promotion itself. Second, I gave two sources of live events where Gambino wrestles as part of Bullet Club. Another one, NJPW Australian facebok, where it includes Gambino as member of Bullet Club. So, right now we have 4 reliable sources. NJPW Facebook, MCW, the wrestling observer and PWInsider. [2] --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 12:50, 4 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Facebook is NOT reliable!! MCW is a primary source and can't be used when contested as is happening right now!! Wrestling Observer and PWInsider never reported his membership. Prove that he's a member with a news story, not show results!! (Thank God I can now edit the article!) NotMemberofBC (talk) 05:04, 5 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
That link given wasn't to the New Japan Facebook page anyway. It was to the tour page, which was run by MCW! 101.189.95.32 (talk) 07:57, 5 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@TheKinkdomMan: You shouldn't be reverting! That's edit warring! 101.189.95.32 (talk) 10:10, 5 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The sources are fine. One is the MCW report, just includes Fale introducing him. Second, it's the NJPW Australian Facebook with the official cartel for the event. If you don't like it, here is NJPW official and verified Twitter with the same poster. [3] As the article states, NJPW has the power to include anyone into the stable. The Australian tour is organized by NJPW in association with MCW, so every decision is taken by NJPW. PWInsider, a reliable source, says "New Japan Pro Wrestling announced this morning that IWGP Heavyweight champion Kazuchika Okada and Rocky Romero vs. IWGP Heavyweight Tag Team Champions Evil and Sanada in a non-title match will main event their 2/19 event in Perth, Australia. Also announced was The Bullet Club (Kenny Omega, Gino Gambino, Chase Owens and Bad Luck Fale) vs. The Mighty Don't Kneel (Jonah Rock, Slex, Marcus Pitt and Damian Slater.)" NJPW iself includes Gambino inside Bullet Club. Dave Meltzer reports " Bullet Club (Kenny Omega, Bad Luck Fale, Gino Gambino & Chase Owens) defeated TMDK (Marcius Pitt, Damien Slater, Jonah Rock & Slex) Good 8-man tag match. TMDK did not look out of their depth against Bullet Club. Crowd was split, mostly supporting TMDK who were formed in Perth, but cheering for Kenny when he was in." Also including Gambino in the stable. Since then, this is your personal crusade against Gambino, but the sources are reliable and reports Gambino as member of BC. Even if this is a promotional move to gain Australian fans, stills oficial by NJPW. --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 12:22, 5 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Also, there is several websites calling him member of BC. "At this weekend's November Rain event, fans experienced an emotional moment as Bad Luck Fale inducted Victorian wrestler Gino “Juicy” Gambino into the famed and exclusive Bullet Club faction." "They consequently discovered Mr Juicy (Gino Gambino) who made his debut as the first Australian member of Bullet Club at Wrestle Kingdom, during the New Japan Rumble, and the UnderBoss and Gambino alliance has Australasian fans thrilled for future potential." Cagematch profile "Gino Gambino Becomes The 13th Member Of The Bullet Club" I can gave more, but sadly, aren no reliable. --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 12:56, 5 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

First of all we have all provided more than one source which vacaits the BLP and there is no edit warning if it’s your first revert TheKinkdomMan (talk) 21:29, 5 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Second I never said I went to the notice bored I said there was a discussion going on with the Bullet Club on the notice Bored, and thirdly when provided with more than one source makes it reliable and lastly all the reverts you have done have breached 3RR your lucky none of us have reported you if we did you would be blocked permanently so I’d take into consideration that your on thin ice TheKinkdomMan (talk) 21:32, 5 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

You're on thin ice! Publicity stunt! You feel for it! Both of you, and PWInsider and Observer! Facebook isn't reliable and it's not the NJPW official page! It's a tour page run by MCW! Primary source! BLP says get a proper independent source and you haven't yet! 101.189.95.32 (talk) 08:13, 6 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, but there is nothing wrong with the sources. That's your blindness and your personal crusade against Gambino. The tour is promoted by NJPW. The Twitter is verified, the poster is official. PWInsider and WON are independent reliable sources. --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 11:28, 6 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah. While I'm not convinced he should be listed as a full-time member unless he continues to appear more regularly, he was definitely advertised as a mwmeber by the promoters themselves. The PWI and WON sources are actually less definitive, however, as they're WP:ROUTINE card announcements and results, which only really establish that he wrestled alongside BC members, not that he was a member himself. That's why the NJPW sources are needed; they are not invalid sources as first-party sources are legit for establishing basic facts without interpretation. oknazevad (talk) 11:45, 6 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
See @HHH Pedrigree:? I don't have a personal crusade against Mr Juicy. I have a personal crusade for the truth, and the truth is it's a publicity stunt. The promoters that Oknazevad mentioned were NOT New Japan! They were MCW who co-promoted the tour with one NJPW person - Fale. Juicy's worked ONE NJPW show outside of Australia and that's it! No way that's the conduct of a full blown member! 101.189.95.32 (talk) 23:04, 6 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I think everyone needs to calm down here. There is a lot of ownership behaviour here that does not help resolve this issue - and there is an issue. There is no doubt about that. Sourcing provided is either not reliable or weak on the one side. On the other side we have unsourced claims that smell of original research. This is a situation that requires proper discussion addressing the issues of the weakness or sourcing (reliability on that point is irrelevant - the mention of WP:ROUTINE is an excellent point). To this end first and foremost Gino Gambino should remain off the list. This is the preference under WP:BLP until a consensus is reached. Any attempts to add him before such a consensus is reached should be regarded as edit warring. Let's talk about this, and in reasonable tones. Is that too much too ask? Addicted4517 (talk) 04:09, 8 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Addicted4517: It's hard to discuss this when the IP oncly turn down the sources because "it's MCW" or "I don't think this source is reliable". Point 1, NJPW, the promotion owner of BC, made a tour in Australia. In that tour, Gambino was presented as member of bullet club (TMDK vs Bullet Club (Kenny Omega, Gino Gambino, Chase Owens and Bad Luck Fale)) The promotion includes him inside the stable. Also, he has no prove about the social media is controlled by MCW (he is only repeating over and over the sources aren't reliable since MCW is behind the shadows without proofs), for me, it's the NJPW Australia facebook and the official verified Twitter of NJPW. Even if it's a promotional tactic, looks like NJPW includes him as part of BC. As Oknazevad said, its advertised as a BC member by NJPW (not MCW as the IP said, since its a NJPW tour, not a MCW. Again, no proofs) so at least, he should be in the table. Maybe as a part timeer, like others, but is advertised by NJPW as member of BC. Again, it's hard to discuss wwhen the IP repeat the same nonsense arguments over and over and I gave several sources. --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 11:37, 8 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I'll repeat what I said over and over because you haven't proven your claim to begin with! Fact - and you can look this up - Fale put the tour together. Not NJPW. He used the NJPW name because that's who he works for. Fact - he couldn't have done it without local back up, and that's where MCW came in! Your sources are out of whack because they are wrong! Or maybe weak like Addicted pointed out! If Gambino is a member, why was he NOT wearing a Bullet Club tee during his appearance on Being the Elite, and everyone else WAS! Huh? Where's his appearances with the Club in Japan? One run in a Rumble where he was NOT acknowledged as a member! That's all! The circumstantial evidence against him being a member is over whelming! And you are choosing to ignore it! Hey, how do you think that article appeared in the Herald Sun? MCW promoted it, which is why you can't use it because of WP:ADV!! The onus is on you to prove beyond any doubt that he is a member, and you can't because he's not! 101.189.95.32 (talk) 11:52, 8 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Again, do you have sources about the NJPW tour is made by Fale? No, every source said the Australian tour is promoted by NJPW. It's WP:OR, since you have no proves Fale made the tournament using NJPW name. Also, your only way to turn down the sources its saying "sources are wrong" without a real reason. The Australian Tour its a NJPW tour, not a Fale tour. Your only claim is MCW it's behind everything, behind Herald Sun, behind NJPW Twitter, behind the PWInsider. It's irrational, you turn down sources just claiming MCW it's behind everything. Also, you can proofe he is not a member because doesn't wear a tshirt. Here is Fale giving him a BC TShirt [4], does it proof it's an official member? --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 11:57, 8 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
No it doesn't because that's an unreliable source! Twitter is an unreliable source! Why didn't Gambino wear his tee on the Being the Elite video? As far as Fale NOT running the tour? He gave a speech thanking the crowd and singled out Bad Luck Fale as the person who put the tour together, even asking that the audience gives Fale more love than they've given anyone else. (see in the notes under Cody Rhodes beating Rocky Romero). You think MCW had nothing to do with the tour at all? If they weren't involved there wouldn't have been any Australian wrestlers on the tour!! Guess what? That includes Gambino! You're a fan boy who has been tricked and are too proud to admit it - that makes YOU irrational. The circumstantial evidence is there, and you are ignoring it out of convenience! 101.189.95.32 (talk) 22:00, 8 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Social media ccounts are reliable if it's from the company and is the official account. The Twitter account is verified, so it's like NJPW website. --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 10:59, 9 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Twitter is NEVER reliable! NEVER! Official or not! 101.189.95.32 (talk) 12:14, 9 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Yes. Sometimes, is reliable. [5] "Self-published or questionable sources may be used as sources of information about themselves, especially in articles about themselves, without the requirement that they be published experts in the field, so long as the following criteria are met:

The material is neither unduly self-serving nor an exceptional claim. It does not involve claims about third parties (such as people, organizations, or other entities). It does not involve claims about events not directly related to the subject. There is no reasonable doubt as to its authenticity. The article is not based primarily on such sources. These requirements also apply to pages from social networking websites such as Twitter, Tumblr, and Facebook." I think this claim met the criteria. It's not undily nor exceptional (it's not NJPW saying NJPW it's the numer 1 promotion in the world). Talks about their own creation, NJPW has the right of BC. Is related to the subject. It's verified, so it's aunthentic. --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 13:55, 9 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

There's an issue here regarding what constitutes a member of the stable. Is it really reliable sourcing that proves this, or is it the promotion itself. As the article clearly passes WP:GNG, the argument regarding sourcing needing to be not WP:PRIMARY is ok, but not everything needs to be independent. If a company said that they had a new stable, and mentioned who they were, that should be all the information needed to prove that they are members of the team (As there is no real contracts regarding these types of teams). So, the big issue here, is if New Japan or any partner have said that they are a member, or if it's speculation. I'd actually argue that regardless of if he is a member or not, he should be mentioned simply for this reason Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 12:14, 8 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
One problem. You're ignoring WP:BLP. That invalidates your argument over WP:PRIMARY because there's controversy pressing the need for an independent secondary source, along with invalidating your other argument. 101.189.95.32 (talk) 22:00, 8 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The IPs argument is besides the point when multiple sources are claiming Gambino is a member, he may not be a full time member however being advertised as a member proves the sources to be correct to him being a member, I don’t think we’re gonna get anywhere with this I think we should bring in a Administrator, the IPs argument comes to a end with Gambino being advertised and claiming a multiple reliable sources are wrong, not to mention when did I or HHH Pedigree use Facebook as a source TheKinkdomMan (talk) 19:25, 8 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

WRONG! There is evidence that he is NOT a member as I have said time and time again, not to mention most sources of yours being unreliable. HHH Pedigree did use Facebook as a source (the NJPW Australian tour page). Bottom line - proof is needed that Gambino is a full time and current member that is independent of NJPW and MCW that isn't advertising or routine and is reliable. Guess what? There isn't one! Clear as glass!! 101.189.95.32 (talk) 22:00, 8 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Your WRONG your by providing a source saying he isn’t so until you do that he is a member, if you read the guidelines on here you would know that, further more he didn’t use FB as a source he used it as evidence and no reliable source is wrong until proven it is unreliable, I advise reading more of Wikipedia’s guidelines and policies, not to mention your not proving the source is wrong when we are proving it’s reliable, so tell me who would win this if a Administrator was brought in TheKinkdomMan (talk) 22:09, 8 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

You will lose because as he said you are ignoring WP:BLP which REQUIRES an INDEPENDENT reliable source which is NOT routine like Oz pointed out!! You don't own the article like Addicted said! And I take offence to his calling me on using original research! I never did that! My issue is with the violation of BLP and only that! Stop editing the article to support your supposed ownership and get an effing consensus! Until then - leave it! YOU are edit warring!! NotMemberofBC (talk) 23:54, 8 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oh and the onus is on you because one can't prove a negative. NotMemberofBC (talk) 23:55, 8 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I’ve already reported this whole situation and you for breaking 3RR I suggest you stop reverting my edits or any others I’ve also pointed out which IP user you are too so you will lose, further more read up the BLP is not in violation when multiple sources are reliable and pointing to it as a member, I suggest you stop why your ahead all these comments are on the report TheKinkdomMan (talk) 01:27, 9 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

No such report made re 3RR and Oz reverted you rightly. Prove that your sources are independent, reliable and not routine! Independent sources are REQUIRED under BLP and all you've given from reliable independent sources are match results - routine and NOT GOOD ENOUGH! I've given enough circumstantial evidence to prove he is NOT a member. You don't own the article! Get proper sources! You don't have ANY right now! Stop pointing to the ones you have given because.....well I won't repeat myself AGAIN! NotMemberofBC (talk) 01:47, 9 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

You haven’t provided crap, all you stick to is BLP and I have pointed out to the admin bored all your reverts as well as mine, further more this discussion is going no where so as I said before and we need a Administrator, you haven’t pointed out anything, we have given multiple reliable sources if that’s not enough we shall let a Administrator decided this, do you agree with that since no one of us can come to a conclusion TheKinkdomMan (talk) 01:55, 9 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I say we bring in a experienced editor and Admin this discussion isn’t going anywhere, none of us can come to a conclusion and frankly I’m getting tired of arguing over this when someone with experience and power can settle this TheKinkdomMan (talk) 01:58, 9 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Sticking to BLP is the right thing to do because you aren't paying it any attention at ALL! Fact - this is CONTENTIOUS (I'll use the right word this time even though controversial means the same thing). All your sources FAIL the requirements BLP because they are either unreliable or just plain poor because they are in violation of WP:ROUTINE as Oz said! This is going nowhere because you being totally ignorant! Here's another fact. Where is Gambino in the NJPW media OUTSIDE of the Australian tour as a member? NOWHERE! Why isn't his membership covered in detail by reliable sources like PWInsider or Wrestling Observer? It's news! But they haven't touched the story. Why? Because it isn't true!! Getting it yet?? NotMemberofBC (talk) 06:00, 9 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@101.189.95.32: I didn't want to get involved back into this, but I saw you trying to explain the circumstances of the the tour of which you clearly don't understand fully yourself. MCW was not the only company involved in the tour, NJPW were supported by a company in each Australian state (for use of their ring, etc), and MCW had a far lesser hand in organising the tour than you think. The reason that there were Australian wrestlers on the tour is that NJPW held tryouts in Melbourne around the time of Gambino joining the Bullet Club in November, and another tryout in Sydney in late January. I just wanted to clarify that, as MCW didn't pull any strings to get their guys on the shows. — Preceding unsigned comment added by BelieveInTheShield (talk • contribs) 05:34, 9 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Rubbish. EVERY Australian wrestler on the show has at some point worked for MCW - no exceptions. The ring usage is irrelevant! Guess who arranged the tryouts? MCW! NOT NJPW. They just agreed to it seeing as they had Fale out here anyway! There were Aussie wrestlers on the show that have NOT worked in the other cities - Marcuis Pitt for instance has NEVER worked in Sydney! MCW DID pull strings from the get go!

Ignorant no and your still not comprehending the concept of reliable sources there not weak there fully up to date, as I said I’m awaiting for the Admin on the Notice Board and further more sticking to one thing when we’ve all proven without a shadow of a doubt the sources are reliable and correct yes he may not be a full time member if he was added to the stable, just like there are different types of groups that are in the Bullet Club from all over the world, your not taking that into consideration BLP may state it must be deleted but it doesn’t say if the source is reliable which it is but like I said let’s get a experienced editor and Admin in here to decide this so we can put this to rest instead of going back and forth TheKinkdomMan (talk) 06:42, 9 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Here’s your independent sources [6] [7]

Oh and before you state there not reliable it’s currently being discussed on Reliable source Notice Board TheKinkdomMan (talk) 07:25, 9 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Sportster is already listed as an unreliable source on the source list at WP:PW with proof! Never seen the other one before but it looks sus because it's lead editor is nothing more than a fan by his own admission. 101.189.95.32 (talk) 08:58, 9 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Do you want me to try to find another one because I’ve came across 10 but I only listed two but I’ll find more, and I understand why your sticking to BLP, just hear me out ok, The BLP should vacate when one or more reliable sources provide the right information and I don’t blame you for sticking to it, it’s just you need to come up with a little more argument that states and provides that out sources are not reliable TheKinkdomMan (talk) 19:04, 9 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Here’s a source [8] TheKinkdomMan (talk) 19:31, 9 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Here's another source where Fale gives the Bullet Club shirt to Gambino [9] TheKinkdomMan (talk) 20:23, 9 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, that's pretty definitive. Bad Luck even used the word "official". He's in. oknazevad (talk) 20:54, 9 March 2018 (UTC) PS, lease keep indenting properly; it's easier to follow the conversation that way.[reply]
IP below gives a good reason that it's not definitive and remains contentious, and looking at it it's not from the official account either. NotMemberofBC (talk) 01:29, 10 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
411mania is listed as unproven at WP:PW and at present should only be used for TV and PPV reports. The second one relies on Twitter and is therefore unreliable. List all the others if you want to get this over for review - no exceptions. 101.189.95.32 (talk) 20:37, 9 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Twitter is not unreliable if it's an official, verified account, though it cannot be used to establish notability, just basic facts. You are incorrect in your understanding. oknazevad (talk) 20:54, 9 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
What's nitability? LOL! Seriously where is this official Twitter account status that confirms him? I couldn't put the account through Google Translate easily and it won't give me anything further back than a couple of days. Here's the official account for the record. NotMemberofBC (talk) 01:29, 10 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

411 is yet to be proven or not proven reliable this making it a independent source TheKinkdomMan (talk) 20:44, 9 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

That's wrong - you never use an unproven source in situations like this with BLP. It HAS to be proven, and 411mania isn't. Don't clutch at literal straws. NotMemberofBC (talk) 01:29, 10 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Let's review each of the sources given thoroughly one by one;

  • [10] Facebook is not reliable unless it is the official account. This is not the official account, but a tour account that has not been verified.
  • [11] Twitter has the same issue as Facebook, and again this is not the official account per what I just said.
  • [12] This can't be used because of a pay window blocking access.
  • [13] This appears better, but it claimed that Gino Gambino was introduced at Wrestle Kimgdom as a member and there seems to be no coverage of this on reports on the event. I'm not saying that renders it unreliable, but it does place a question mark over it. Fale is quoted from Twitter (and that's a verified account which could work) but only mentions his dojo linking to Facebook.
  • [14] Cage Match is listed at the Wikipedia Pro Wrestling source list as only reliable for match results.
  • [15] This is listed as unreliable on the same source list, noting as proof a false report
  • [16] This is listed as not yet proven by the Wikipedia Pro Wrestling source list in terms of reliability, which may put it in the same category a Vulture Hound above (which is not listed at all). This is the case as it uses the same Twitter status as Vulture Hound, but unlike Vulture Hound doesn't expand on it. I would therefore not use it as a reflection on the story rather than the website.
  • [17] I disagree with the IP that the writer of this one being a fan is a factor. Said editor seems to have some journalistist experience. However he had written for Wrestlezone, which is listed on the Wikipedia Pro Wrestling source list as unreliable.
  • [18] This also uses the same Twitter status as both Vulture Hound and 411 mania and is even briefer in it's note to the point where I would call this routine.

That's all from this section of the talk page. There are apparently other sources so we should see them so they can be reviewed. As it stands for the present I would favour the argument that Gambino has not been proven satisfactorily under the relevant WP rules to be a member. I would also suggest that the IP and NotMemberofBC tone down their aggressive statements. Whilst TheKinkdomMan has been until recently behaving like he owns the article, those two are being just as bad in that regard. That doesn't allow for this debate to reach a consensus. Further, the claims made the IP about publicity stunts needs verification just as much as the claims from the other side need to be. I do however agree that the circumstantial evidence (that is - the lack of proof of certain claims on both sides) is substantive. It just needs proof, and there has only been one link so far with that, and it is from a reliable source - Wrestling Observer. I am referring to the claim that Bad Luck Fale put the tour together. There is however no proof that Melbourne City Wrestling were in any way substantively involved in the tour. Addicted4517 (talk) 02:58, 10 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

No proof?? WTF?? I gave a link proving that Fale put the tour together and there's no way he could have done it without help IN AUSTRALIA!! Explain that!! Yeah I'm aggressive but only because it's polite to shout when people aren't listening!!! 101.189.95.32 (talk) 04:58, 10 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Addicted4517:. Thanks for your intervention. It's fair for me, close case. Also, as Addicted said, the IP claim about MCW it's pure speculation without sources or proof. --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 10:38, 10 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

What about this [19] TheKinkdomMan (talk) 03:54, 15 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Article written by "Marchman". Give me a break! HAS to be unreliable, and not only that the story said Fale gave a T Shirt to Gambino, and suddenly that makes him a member? Hey I'll get a T-Shirt and suddenly I'm a member!! Give it up - this is done!! 101.189.151.252 (talk) 11:12, 16 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Dude, there's plenty of reliable sources. Just stop. oknazevad (talk) 12:45, 16 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Where? NotMemberofBC (talk) 09:53, 17 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Just cause Wikipedia hasn’t said it’s reliable or not there are plenty of Reliable sources, as I’ve pointed out multiple sources you can also go to the amdmin reliable source noted and post it and ask if it’s reliable they will tell you, as I’ve also gotten confromation from them saying some of the sources I proved were reliable but yet you keep reverting them so again use your brain instead of sticking to not reliable when sources can be reliable and take it under consideration your not a king nor a important person on here that’s why your Administrator to be request was denied because you haven’t proven to know everything there needs to be, and lastly I’m currently talking to Administrators right now about this TheKinkdomMan (talk) 17:51, 16 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

You aren't talking to admins. I looked at your edits. You haven't been there for nearly a week. You don't own this article like Addicted said!! You claim there are plenty of reliable sources. Give!! And don't repeat any of the ones above because they aren't reliable! Oh - and I'm adding that last link to the Pro Wrestling sources page as unreliable as the IP pointed out. I 100 percent agree with that call. NotMemberofBC (talk) 09:53, 17 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@NotMemberofBC: Please curb your aggression. It doesn't help your cause. While you are correct that KinkdomMan doesn't own the article, neither do you. I also happen to agree with the IP's review and your addition of the site to the list you mention. Just chose some better words and lose the exclamation marks if you wouldn't mind. Addicted4517 (talk) 02:33, 18 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Listen fool I have had conversations with admins it wasn’t on the account further more I will report you for being in civil and you will be blocked second of all you are not a admin nor do you have the powers they do and lastly I’ve alrady gotten the reliable source in just waiting on a admin to give me the ok so further more don’t chime in what you don’t know, and it’s not me that’s in contact with a Administrator it’s my friend, oh and I forgot I’m reporting you for being un civil in this convo or you can apologize and I won’t report you TheKinkdomMan (talk) 04:54, 19 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

You do not Own the article as addicted pointed out, further more I have more evidence just to report you while your being un civil so feed me more why don’t you TheKinkdomMan (talk) 04:58, 19 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

You have nothing because you provoked me! Look at yourself in the mirror before projecting on others, and while you're about it stop lying. There is no way to contact administrators without it showing on your contributions! YOU don't own the article and you still haven't given any reliable sources like you claim you have! NotMemberofBC (talk) 05:31, 19 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Both of you knock it off or I'm going to have you both topic banned and given an interaction ban. This ridiculous dick measuring contest is useless and stupid. Grow up. There are reliable sources in the article. Now knock it off. oknazevad (talk) 10:43, 19 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
There are not reliable sources in the article, Oknazevad, in relation to this. Your remark there is approaching the same level of lack of co-operation as the others, not withstanding the accuracy of your remark otherwise. If there are more sources available, please place them here for review so we can finally obtain a consensus on this. Addicted4517 (talk) 12:53, 20 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I never provoked you, you started being uncivil for no reason, which is becoming a problem when you’ve been warned more than once in this convo, which I could use as evidence if I report you but since I’m all about giving people a second chance I’m willing to give you one, and second I never said I was talking to a Admin with this account I used a IP and lastly we’d both get blocked for being uncivil so I’d have to agree with Oknazevad TheKinkdomMan (talk) 17:32, 19 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

In fact you did provoke him even though his conduct in response was not appropriate. Both of you are at fault, and I would advise that using your IP to alert administrators amounts to sock puppetry, TheKinkdomMan. A while ago you said you had more sources, and you are yet to provide them. Please do so as it will allow us to draw this to a conclusive result. Addicted4517 (talk) 12:53, 20 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I’m not creating a second account to get blocked, and Wikipedia isn’t allowing me to post the source I keep trying but I keep getting error and it won’t post, maybe I did provoke him but his conduct wasn’t appropriate as you pointed out but you have to take under consideration that I left this convo for awhile and then I came back and he was being very uncivil for no reason, I’m trying my best to post this source but it won’t post I don’t understand why TheKinkdomMan (talk) 17:26, 20 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

He had an excuse (which was not acceptable as observed) and that was that he didn't forget or forgive. It happens a lot. An apology for your initial conduct to him might help but that's up to you. I admit to guessing. As far as this link you have not posting, it's most likely because Wikipedia has blacklisted the website you got it from. Given that you haven't specifically identified the error that comes up when you try to post it I don't know, but that appears the most likely explanation. And if it is black listed, it's not reliable by default I'm afraid. Addicted4517 (talk) 22:33, 20 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I don’t think it’s blacklisted but every time I go to save and post I get the error TheKinkdomMan (talk) 02:08, 21 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

What's the name of the site? Addicted4517 (talk) 11:55, 21 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

It’s wrestlingnews.co TheKinkdomMan (talk) 17:37, 21 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Hmmm. I was able to add it to my sandbox after I found the story. Very odd. [20] But I would say no to this because it has been written as an editorial piece (an opinion) and not as a news story. It also relies on the same tweet from Fale as the previous ones noted. What would really resolve this is a note from New Japan itself, but that would be difficult as their site is in Japanese obviously. Addicted4517 (talk) 22:49, 21 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
That’s odd I don’t know why it wouldn’t let me add it, but maybe this one could be added even tho the IP claims this is not reliable [21] it also shows Gambino in the Bullet Club TheKinkdomMan (talk) 04:02, 22 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Even tho it’s not proven to be reliable or unreliable it’s a source stating Gambino is in the Bullet Club [22] TheKinkdomMan (talk) 04:02, 22 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
It has to be proven reliable to pass WP:BLP!! Anyway, Addicted already said no to that one. Cage Match can only be used for match results, or didn't you read what Addicted said in review of that site even if the link he reviewed was a different one! Come on! NotMemberofBC (talk) 00:14, 23 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Still Wikipedia isn’t letting me add all the sources I found all I get is error TheKinkdomMan (talk) 02:28, 23 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

What is the error you are getting? Please copy and paste it word for word here. Addicted4517 (talk) 19:55, 25 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Every time I try to even post it on here or copy and paste it, I get the error notification, I can’t even post it so as for now I can’t post the sources until I can I will but for right now I’m gonna have to take a break from Bullet Club a break TheKinkdomMan (talk) 16:09, 29 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I am not talking about the links that create the error message. I am talking about the actual error itself. The words on the screen when the error comes up. That is easy to copy and paste here. Addicted4517 (talk) 09:54, 30 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Ah I see, I use my phone so I really don’t know how to copy it but I’ll try TheKinkdomMan (talk) 17:54, 30 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Or you should use a desktop or laptop, although I suspect your phone may be the issue and not the links themselves. Addicted4517 (talk) 21:37, 6 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

It’s possible that it’s my phone TheKinkdomMan talk 22:50, 15 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Compromise proposal[edit]

At this point it's pretty clear that Gambino is not a full-time member of the Bullet Club, but would there be any objection to listing him as an Associate member with his timeline dates as follows: 11/11/17 (the MCW show where Fale formally invited him into the group) and 2/16/18-2/19/18 (the NJPW branded Australia shows that he appeared on as a member of the Bullet Club). Again, we wouldn't include him in the full-time member section, and his timeline would be more in line with Mephisto or Haku's. I'm hoping this is a compromise that will satisfy everyone's concerns. Dahumorist (talk) 07:24, 14 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I think that's a reasonable solution. The Video of his induction, coupled with his His declaration of loyalty to the Firing Squad/OG (note the response from Tama) shows that he's a memeber, and not forgotten, even if only a part time member. oknazevad (talk) 14:18, 9 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Unaccounted for 5 star matches[edit]

Cole and the Young Bucks got 5 stars in a PWG show in 2016 as part of the Bullet Club: Adam Cole and The Young Bucks (Matt Jackson and Nick Jackson) vs. Matt Sydal, Ricochet and Will Ospreay on September 3rd 2016. Addressed in 12th of September 2016 edition.

Also recently Kenny and Ibushi vs The Young Bucks got 5 Stars: Kenny Omega and Kota Ibushi vs. The Young Bucks (Matt and Nick Jackson) on March 25th 2018. Addressed in 29th of March 2018 edition.

All Info via Wrestling Observer (site requires membership, so i cannot cite) https://www.f4wonline.com

These are addressed in their personal wikipedia pages, and should be in here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by AM Woody (talk • contribs) 17:15, 29 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The PWG doesn' belong here. There is no BC in PWG. --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 17:15, 2 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I disagree. The wrestlers were a team and all acting members of the bullet club at the time. The fact they were teaming together as the superkliq (a sub-group of BC) means there is bullet club in PWG. Either way it would be disingenuous to not show their accomplishment while they were active members of the group. AM Woody (talk) 19:17, 2 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
No. They didn't worked at PWG as Bullet Club. Even if they were members, they didn't wrestled under the Bullet Club banner, but the Mount Rushmore 2.0 banner. --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 19:55, 2 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
It seems strange to recognise some 5 star matches, but not others, but whatever. AM Woody (talk) 16:37, 4 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Leader?[edit]

Why is Cody marked as current leader and Omega not? Omega still claims leadership and it has not officially been decided as to who the leader currently is. The graph should reflect this.

174.112.56.24 (talk) 19:40, 5 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Omega lost the leadership at ROH Supercard of Honor when he lost to Cody. It was the match stip. 1.124.107.20 (talk) 07:48, 6 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Leadership history question[edit]

The current article and chart says that Devitt was the first leader, then Karl Anderson and AJ Styles were co-leaders somehow, until Kenny took over. This article has Fale stating that Anderson would have been de facto leader had AJ Styles not joined, and I think I recall an interview where Anderson laughed at the fact he was considered 'leader' since he was not. It seems from what I've fact checked, Devitt/Anderson/Styles were de facto leaders or 'Aces', but not formal leaders. This was later clarified on the Talk is Jericho podcast where Omega said the following @ 5:37:

"...AJ was sorta referred to as a "silent leader," and up until then there was really no leader. People had maybe had thought that Finn was one, but no one had really said "Hey, this is a definitive leader," until AJ had stepped in, but AJ had never really referred to himself as the leader. But we rolled with it...but between all of us there never has been a leader, we've all just been equals."

source

So it seems to me if I'm reading this all correctly, Omega was the first actual "leader" followed by Jay White, and prior to Omega it was a leaderless but with certain members as de facto figurehead's of the group. With this in mind, I propose the member table be updated or amended as it's a bit confusing (especially with Anderson) --BLKFTR (tlk2meh) 20:12, 28 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

AJ has clarified the leadership issue, sourcing here but the article should be updated: "Here we go again. I am going to say this, at no point was AJ Styles ever the leader of The Bullet Club. I never said it, no one ever said it about me that was in our group," - AJ Styles, 2022

Semi-protected edit request on 1 September 2018[edit]

Currently, there are a few championship belts missing here and more specifically: Tama Tonga: JCW Championship from the Jersey Championship Wrestling

AJ Styles: RPW British Heavyweight Championship from the Revolution Pro Wrestling

The Young bucks ( Matt and Nick Jackson ): WST Tag Team Title Tournament (2018) and WSW Tag Team Championship from the World Series Wrestling

I would ask you to add these Championship belts to the list of Championships and accomplishments ( and yes they won those titles as a members of the Bullet Club ) M MRVertez (talk) 21:21, 1 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made.  spintendo  07:38, 9 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]


I think that ther is no need for this ... When i see this page and think abaut what are you writing hear I am just geting angry ... You're stealing a piece of their story and either you do not know it or you're blind ... Now you remove from this side what they won and its not the first time ... This page sucks ! and ist and it's yours fault — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.82.196.119 (talk) 21:27, 5 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Amell and Haku[edit]

Shouldn't these two should be in the members section, instead of associates, because a 'part-time' member is still a member. Keeping the note to say they only make sporadic appearances would avoid any confusion. AM Woody (talk) 19:27, 8 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I moved them there since those two are Part Time Members of the group and NOT associates (Kota Ibushi is somebody who (like Sakuraba w/CHAOS) is an Associate through his partnership with Kenny Omega). Now I wish they would STAY there because Amell and Haku ARE part time members of the group, and Ibushi IS associate w/the Bullet Club Elite. ForrestFuller (talk) 11:04, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Again, the Associates section is unnecesary. All of them are/were members, the only exception is Ibushi. I don't knwo why are you so obssesed with Ibushi, the note is already included in the Golden Elite part. The section is about members and Ibushi is not. In the end, the associates section ends full of OR, like Taguchi Japan --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 11:32, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The associates table was creates on July 2018. [23] I don't like it, every member, except Ibushi were members of BC, no just associates. I changed to part time members, since it's accurate. And personally, I know how the associates tables end, full of OR, like Taguchi Japan. --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 17:51, 9 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The Elite moved to former members[edit]

I’ve seen that Kenny Omega and The Young Bucks have been changed to former members of the Bullet Club. I know Cody has left, but where’s the confirmation on the other 3? ItChEE40 (talk) 06:39, 26 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Yes I also noticed the change. Some quick searching doesn't show any evidence of them leaving or Jay White being the new leader. As far as I can tell the current Civil War storyline is still ongoing TunaNoodleMyFavorite (talk) 19:58, 26 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
There is no source or confirmation or anything about the rest of BC Elite leaving, so I'm going to revert back AM Woody (talk) 17:21, 30 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
It is sourced now. Ironically, the source (Jericho's podcast) was literally streaming as the last response was added here. oknazevad (talk) 08:49, 2 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Chase Owens Is Not In BC Any Longer[edit]

Chase Owens was booted out after the Long Beach show. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:6C63:647F:DA77:9C07:475A:159A:8CE5 (talk) 22:00, 8 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

He and Yujiro are back in now according to "Good Guy" Tama Tonga's instagram AM Woody (talk) 17:52, 5 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

new/splinter BC in AEW[edit]

I've been adding content on this splinter group / re-union to the history and it's been reverted twice. On the shows, they have called themselves Bullet Club directly or saying "it's complicated," and Tonga has called them "bootleg Bulletclub." Whether they are working with NJPW to do a full re-union, or NWO/NWO Wolfpac type rivalry, it belongs somewhere in the history for the time being IMO till it becomes clearer where to place things, as long as they are using the name Bullet Club on their shows. EDIT: Seems users have already added all members to the Elite article despite things being unclear.--BLACK FUTURE (tlk2meh) 18:34, 11 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

It's been reverted because they are not apart of Bullet Club. Just because they name drop the Bullet Club name does not make it relevant here. You mentioned them working with NJPW or doing a NWO/NWO Wolfpac type rivalry. This argument is invalided because, 1. AEW doesn't have a working relationship with NJPW and 2. the NWO/NWO Wolfpac type rivalry happened in the same promotion (WCW). So unless the AEW "Bullet Club" and NJPW Bullet Club start feuding or NJPW recognised the AEW "Bullet Club", then this is the equative of the Styles/Balor and Gallows and Anderson reunion in WWE. Your edits have been reverted by myself and another editor. So BOLD, revert, discuss cycle applies and any mention of the AEW's "Bullet Club" should be keep out as per status quo until an consensus is reached. TheDeviantPro (talk) 01:59, 12 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Exactly. What Omega, the Good Brothers, and Young Bucks are doing is no different than when WWE had the OC or Balor Club. Plays off their former membership, but not actually Bullet Club. And none are mentioned here. oknazevad (talk) 09:08, 12 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I get what you're saying, but those examples don't really apply here unless they start calling themselves something other than Bullet Club. If they just said "the Elite" then yeah, I'd agree. --BLACK FUTURE (tlk2meh) 04:12, 17 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I get what you mean, but unless it's actually NJPW-related, it's not Bullet Club. Bullet Club is NJPW, and unless they officially branch out like they did with CMLL in 2013 or ROH like they did from 2016-2018, it's not officially Bullet Club. All this just goes under The Elite as far as I'm concerned. ItChEE40 (talk) 10:58, 12 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
That's not really true, just because NJPW has the rights, doesn't mean there isn't a licensing agreement going on behind the scenes and this is more and more seeming like the ROH type situation. On the Impact PPV tonight, the Goodbrothers had full custom Bullet Club branded ring gear, and Omega wore a Bullet Club shirt much of the match. Personally this looks like a work to get people talking like we are here, but from a Wiki perspective IMO it's related to BC's current history and with former founding/leadership members using the name and logo in other promotions now it seems relevant enough to include (ie, its not a one off, not a social media thing). Woudlnt surprise me to see Gallows & Anderson show up in NJPW soon to feud with the 'real' BC. --BLACK FUTURE (tlk2meh) 04:05, 17 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
.It's too soon to talk about a name (I tought the name was 4-Life). But agree, BC rights are owned by NJPW, so unless they aprove it, this is not bullet club, even if they share members, fingers and history. Just like The Original Club in WWE, or The Band in TNA. --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 11:51, 12 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Unfortunately I dont think theres any way for us to know if and when things are approved, can only go by what's on TV. They're using the full name and logo now, too, not just fingers or a spin on the name like "The Club". You make a good point about The Band in TNA, but I'd like to point out that even The Band is mentioned in the NWO article, in addition to having its own separate article. --BLACK FUTURE (tlk2meh) 04:05, 17 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Just want to add that on Dynamite last night, Moxley called this group 'Bullet Club'. So using the name on both AEW and Impact broadcasts from multiple performers, and Gallows/Anderson using the name and logo on their ring gear. Personally I think it would be WP:SYN to assume there is some licensing violation going on and this version (so far) isn't "real" --BLACK FUTURE (tlk2meh) 16:32, 21 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

and i guess to expand on this drama, they've referred to the group as Bullet Club on both shows now, both from performers, and on AEW from the commentators JR & Tony each. Seems closed case at this point.: edit: and now Moxley is feuding with Kenta / Bullet Club in NJPW and Bullet Club in AEW, and the Bucks on BTE said this is like 2013 and "not the 2021 version of Bullet Club because we know it sucks - we're not working with them" "we dont like that no good asshole Tama Tonga"--BLACK FUTURE (tlk2meh) 06:04, 29 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I know it's something that people have been avoiding as it definitely complicates the article a bit, but I'm inclined to agree that this current American TV incarnation might be noteworthy enough in the legacy of Bullet Club to warrant mentioning and tracking on this page. "Bullet Club" may be a copyright owned by NJPW, but articles on wikipedia are not beholden to those same restrictions - the goal is to include an accurate and encyclopedic overview of the subject matter. The inclusion and overlap of NJPW wrestler and Bullet Club (proper) member KENTA on AEW television also muddies the waters on the notion that these things are completely unrelated. Maybe it's too soon to explicitly add Kenny, the Bucks, and the Good Brothers back as members (at least until something more concrete, like an announced AEW/NJPW partnership, or more definitive advertising of "Bullet Club" wrestling pops up) for now, but the storylines (which have pretty explicitly name-dropped Bullet Club) are certainly pertinent to the subject matter of this article. Just my 2 cents.Dahumorist (talk) 07:01, 4 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Just want to add since I'm trying to keep track, but Omega/Kenta are teaming next week and in a web promo, Kenny said "Brother Switchblade never told me to expect a guest, welcome to the American 'Club my friend" (then Kenta told him to take a hike), so there's definitely some weird overlap now with regional chapters? Also to point out, the Omega/Goodbrothers new theme is very BC inspired and the composer even said as much ("Bullet Club with Sabbath vibes, and Hendrix solos")--BLACK FUTURE (tlk2meh) 00:02, 5 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, it's a tricky situation at the moment. Omega/Anderson/Gallows (with Don Callis) are clearly a stable in AEW/Impact, with the Young Bucks seemingly allied for now, but that's maybe not The Elite (professional wrestling) (where the splinter BC stable, real-life friend group, and BTE are all in one article, which is another mess), it's not officially the Bullet Club quite yet, and it's not notable enough (nor has a group name) for it to be its own article. I think we can logically assume that New Japan is cool with them referring to the Bullet Club, but that probably doesn't make them officially back in the group yet. To make it more complicated it's certainly possible they start going by the "Bullet Club" name officially, but the NJPW wrestlers in Bullet Club don't recognize them officially as members to set up a later feud.Froo (talk) 13:47, 4 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Sure, but like I said, who cares what the original Bullet Club members think about it? If it's factual information about the history of "Bullet Club", that's what this page is intended to cover. Dahumorist (talk) 16:43, 4 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Recent interview with Callis kinda solidifies that they consider themselves the A-team bullet club and the NJPW version the call-ups 'flying the flag while we were gone' https://twitter.com/AEW/status/1359709103866707971 --BLACK FUTURE (tlk2meh) 12:49, 11 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Bullet club 2022 USA and Japan members[edit]

There seems to be shift in bullet club affiliation. Njpw1972 still poise GoD as being members of bullet club. While Jay White is in the USA making his own version of cross promotion bullet club. This is long term booking. Still not considering the inevitable break away of House of Torture. Any thoughts. Wikipedia should reflect Njpw standings over all other sources. Ogfacts (talk) 18:45, 21 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Join Dates of returning members[edit]

Karl Anderson and Doc Gallows' join dates in the "Members" section are each listed as February 2022 when they officially rejoined the stable, rather than their original join dates during their initial tenure. However Chase Owens and Yujiro Takahashi's join dates are listed as the dates they initially joined Bullet Club, despite having also left the group and later rejoined. There should be consistency here; either list all as the date they originally joined the stable, or list all as the date they rejoined after previously leaving. — Preceding unsigned comment added by CKYGuy (talk • contribs) 06:11, 6 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Timeline removed[edit]

The timeline keeps getting removed by User:Drmies because it "violates WP:ACCESSIBILITY". At this time, it still isn't clear what standard is being violated. My guess is that it has to do with MS:COLOR, but if that's the case, Drmies better be working hard removing every timeline for every music band there is on this site (cf. Queen, The Doors, The Band, Bad Company, Jefferson Airplane, etc). MordecaiXLII (talk) 07:58, 25 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • User:MordecaiXLII, your "guess" is correct: bravo. As for the shitty tone of your note, I am not responsible for every article on Wikipedia--nor are you responsible for every trivial fact in every childish wrestling article. Drmies (talk) 12:20, 25 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    • Keep being condescending and see where this takes you in life. You still haven't answered the question. What was the exact problem with the use of colors? Contrast? MordecaiXLII (talk) 14:08, 25 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
      • Keep being condescending, says the editor who claimed "Drmies better be working hard removing every timeline for every music band there is on this site". But yes--contrast, mostly, and the vary layout. Drmies (talk) 13:33, 26 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
        Then come up with a suggestion to fix the issue with the timeline instead of outright deleting several years of other people's contributions. You're coming off like you have some personal grudge and got defensive about your stance instead of FIRST explaining your reasons or putting it up for debate to the contributors. Restore it until a decision can be made with other people's input and your own explanation. That's what we do here. Also the person you're responding to used hyperbole, not condescension. 2604:3D08:957D:6200:DC3B:658E:84F8:FC23 (talk) 18:05, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Karl Anderson Membership Status 2022/2023[edit]

Karl Anderson is currently listed as having left Bullet Club for a second time on October 10, 2022 by virtue of his re-signing with WWE, however he wrestled at World Tag League/Super Junior Tag League Finals on December 14, 2022 still representing Bullet Club (including interference on his behalf from Gedo), and will be competing at Wrestle Kingdom in January 2023 as well. Considering that neither Anderson nor Gallows were formally removed from the group and are only being considered former members by virtue of their re-signing with WWE, do we consider Anderson to have rejoined the group for a second time (thus giving him three unique "join dates" overall), or do we consider this an extension of his second run that began in February 2022? CKY Guy (talk) 14:58, 14 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@CKY Guy I say the latter. Based on both the above and how he, Doc Gallows and other members of Bullet Club have portrayed themselves on social media since October, I think it's safe to say (at least in kayfabe) that the Good Brothers haven't left BC yet. 72.141.226.8 (talk) 16:31, 14 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Exactly. Why are they still listed as former members? Karl's feud with Tama Tonga is still about Tama getting revenge on BC. T3Deliciouz (talk) 05:47, 26 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Because Bullet Club only exists outside of WWE's kayfabe bubble. There have been allusions to it over the years but they've never once had it exist in their promotion. Kevin W. - Talk 01:31, 2 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
But NJPW still lists Gallows and Anderson and members, because as far as they're concerned they are. And considering that BC is a NIPW stable, their listings are definitive. oknazevad (talk) 09:42, 2 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

GoD and Jado[edit]

Why is Jado listed as a member of GoD in the sub groups? He was only a second for GoD during their BC tenture. Jado did not officially join GoD until after all three man were booted from BC. It was also then that GoD was boosted from tag team to faction. As it stands Jado should not listed with the GoD subgroup as he wasnt in it when they were in BC. — Preceding unsigned comment added by T3Deliciouz (talk • contribs) 01:14, 9 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Bad Luck Fale[edit]

Should Bad Luck Fale be moved to the rogue army section of the group rather than the main japan one? Imdeadinside12 (talk) 18:13, 25 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Bang Bang Scissor Gang[edit]

Should we add the acclaimed to bullet club gold? Imdeadinside12 (talk) 20:14, 19 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

They're not members of BG, just as BG aren't members of the Acclaimed. The two groups have an alliance. — Czello (music) 20:58, 19 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"Tokyo Latina" Pieter[edit]

can she even be considered a member of house of torture? i feel like she should be in the part time member section i dont even know the last time she appeared with yujiro Imdeadinside12 (talk) 00:07, 26 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Bullet Club USA[edit]

what classifies a member to be considered to be a bullet club us member? is jack perry one? Imdeadinside12 (talk) 17:30, 6 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A reliable source. --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 10:29, 8 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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