Talk:Bury F.C.

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"Nationality given from place of birth"[edit]

I don't really like this idea for the current squad. No-one would classify, for example, Terry Butcher as a Singaporean. Glynn Hurst was born in Barnsley. It's common to assume nationality from place of birth if no other clues are obvious. I'm therefore removing the note "Nationality given from place of birth".  sʟυмɢυм • т • c  20:44, 12 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Also David Buchanan was born in England, yet has Northern Irish nationality through his father. Here I would say his nationality would be classed as N. Ireland, because he plays for the under-21s. -- Boothman /tɔːk/ 15:18, 13 November 2006 (UTC).[reply]

This claim makes no sense...[edit]

The sentence "Recently Bury became the first football club to score a thousand goals in the top four tiers of the English football league." makes no sense to me. Since the football league has been going since the 1888, nearly 120 years, and dozens of clubs must have reached this milestone. Several clubs scored over 80 goals in the 06/07 season alone. There is no evidence to back the claim in any case. Oneeye 15:40, 19 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It should read "in each of the top four tiers of the English football league". There was quite a lot of publicity at the time. -- Boothman /tɔːk/ 16:57, 19 May 2007 (UTC).[reply]
Maybe you want to edit the text then so it makes sense, and if there was a lot of publicity then it should be easy to cite a reliable source. Oneeye 20:44, 20 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Shaker's nickname[edit]

They are nicknamed 'The Shakers' due to first chairman, JT Ingham who, before a Lancashire Cup game with Blackburn, said "We will shake them. In fact, we are the Shakers."

Hi, nice article. I wonder if the statement above could be referenced. I am aware many current supporters believe it and it may well be accurate. Are you sure it is a complete co-incidence that the early Shakers (i.e. religious movement) were I believe once active in the Greater Manchester area? --Steve Mercury (talk) 21:11, 29 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Now sourced (twelve months later). It's not necessarily a coincidence - Ingham could have known about the Shakers when he said that. Scolaire (talk) 18:46, 17 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]


"Building strong foundations (1907-2001)[edit]

This wouldn't seem to make sense for a topic. Strong foundations of what? And why over 94 years? Lots of dates in the headings of this article seem to be off. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.181.125.188 (talk) 01:44, 26 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Section removed[edit]

I have removed the "famous fans" section as it is completely unsourced. The list in its entirety is below, and any can be restored if there is a reliable source included for verification. --Jezebel'sPonyobons mots 14:11, 9 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Famous Players section[edit]

An IP editor continues to revert the removal of the famous players section. All suc lists need to have clear inclusion criteria or are by definition simply OR Through the edit summaries I have tried to make this clear to no avail. Is there any chance another editor could add some in so we don't just have a random list of players clogging up the article for no clear reason, please? Fenix down (talk) 09:06, 4 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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Loved the chart of league performance...[edit]

...so made it larger. And upgraded the article from Start to B-class. Well done. However, as not a Brit or a football fan, will cede reevaluation to those more knowledgeable on the topic. David notMD (talk) 16:34, 27 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

That's great, David, and thank you very much. Another reviewer has made some suggestions too which will further improve it. All the best. No Great Shaker (talk) 19:40, 27 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review[edit]

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Reviewing
This review is transcluded from Talk:Bury F.C./GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Casliber (talk · contribs) 05:37, 3 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]


I'll take a look - will copyedit as I go and make straightforward changes. Please revert if I inadvertently change the meaning. Comments below: Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 05:37, 3 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • In 2018–19, the first-team competed in EFL League Two, the fourth tier of the English football league system, having been relegated from EFL League One in May 2018. Bury finished the season as runners-up to win promotion at the first attempt and will return to League One in 2019–20. - possibly a wee bit wordy for the lead. Maybe "The team have returned to League One, the third tier of the English football league system, for the 2019–20 season, after spending one year in League Two in 2018-19." Agreed and condensed, but please check new wording.
yep, that'll do Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 21:12, 3 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

*Founded in 1885, the club has been a member of the English Football League (EFL) since 1894. - I'd move this sentence into the next paragraph and incorporate it chronologically, like this. Done.

  • Maybe add a descriptor to "Aiden Arrowsmith" - "local businessman/sports enthusiast" etc. Certainly a local enthusiast but his age and profession are unknown. Some better sources found.
  • You've said they helped found the Lancashire league in the lead but not expanded on this in the body. This is in the second paragraph of "Formation and early years (1885–1895)": please advise if more information desired.
Yes but that just says they were one of the founding clubs. "Helped found" suggests there was some active or admin role...? Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 23:18, 3 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I see what you mean. There is a belief that the Bury board actually founded that league and then invited other clubs including Liverpool, no less, to join. I can't source it though, so I've just said we were founder members per the Rundle source used in the narrative. Hope this helps. No Great Shaker (talk) 04:29, 4 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah it's frustrating when that happens - something you know or suspect might be so but no sources to back it up....Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 10:29, 4 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • they should have been relegated after the 1904–05 season but gained a reprieve when the capacity of Division One was increased from eighteen to twenty clubs - :should" is a word best avoided, maybe "they finished bottom in the 1904–05 season but avoided relegation when the capacity of Division One was increased from eighteen to twenty clubs". Done.
  • In the 1900 final, they beat Southern League team Southampton by four goals to nil - any reason why score is spelt out here? Looks odd when elsewhere it is the usual "1-1" format etc. Changed to 4–0.
  • Bury took part in wartime competition and, like all other clubs, often relied on guest players because of service calls. - even though obvious, probably best to clarify that this is WWII. Done, plus a couple of extra links.
  • The Colours and crest section needs some information on the crest. Second paragraph is about the crest, which reflects the town's traditional industries. Also, any reason why the colours were chosen in the first place? Searched high and low for that and can't find anything. We don't even know what colour the original stripes were. There are various theories about the colours but, without citation, no good here.
Oh well, if you can't find it you can't find it then. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 23:18, 3 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Anything about supporters/hooligans, and any particular songs/chants they sing, or mascots? Ha! This is a good one. We do have a few nutters, like all clubs. They seem to hate Bolton, Rochdale, all Yorkshire clubs especially Leeds and, of course, Man U. We don't have any particular songs or chants other than shouting "Come on, Shakers" and "Who's your father, referee?" No, not a lot to be added to that, I'm afraid. LOL!

Re the point below, I ran a copy edit to change some of the wordings around the many promotions and relegations. Apart from the guys who won the Cup in 1900 and 1903, we haven't really had any major players apart from the young Colin Bell (who remains the best Bury player I've ever seen at Gigg). We've seen some pretty good players on the other side, though – we "entertained" Cloughie and Forest when they were European champs and they put seven past us!

Overall the page has 22kb of readable prose, so could double in size before it really really needs to be split. It's pretty complete, though some more on important players at various points in the history might make for less yo-yoing ("they were promoted, they were relegated, etc.") in the text. A nice read. Have had one read-though of the prose and think I'll need to have another. If you wanna make a push for FA-hood (which I recommend) then we can hunt out some other comments. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 08:46, 3 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Casliber: Hello and thank you for the review which has raised some good points. Thanks also for the work you've done on the article to help its chances. I'm a bit short of time just now but should be able to pick up some of your questions later today, certainly tomorrow. All the best. No Great Shaker (talk) 15:29, 3 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Casliber: Hello again. Managed to find some time this evening and I've been through all of the points raised. I've made some changes and added comments above in bold. Do please let me know if there is anything else I may be able to help with. Thank you again. No Great Shaker (talk) 20:45, 3 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

1. Well written?:

Prose quality:
Manual of Style compliance:

2. Factually accurate and verifiable?:

References to sources:
Citations to reliable sources, where required:
No original research:

3. Broad in coverage?:

Major aspects: - see below...
Focused:

4. Reflects a neutral point of view?:

Fair representation without bias:

5. Reasonably stable?

No edit wars, etc. (Vandalism does not count against GA):

6. Illustrated by images, when possible and appropriate?:

Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:
Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:


Overall:

Pass or Fail: - an engaging read. Tricky to get other source material/ I just had a look on google books, and found this which adds some colour (a mascot, for instance) and this Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 14:34, 4 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Aargh, it never even occurred to me to mention the mascot. We had "Robby the Bobby" for many years but he was an idiot who I'd rather forget. He was based on Robert Peel, who came from Bury. The current mascot is a cartoon police dog figure called "Peeler" who started in the last year or two. Please leave that with me because my brother-in-law, who lives in Bury, tells me he once saw something about Peeler on the club site and in the local paper. I'll see what else I can find about supporters. There is this "Forever Bury" action group who try to raise funds but not sure if they are on the internet at all. Thanks again. No Great Shaker (talk) 19:14, 4 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Casliber: Back again. That was easier than I thought it would be. I found pieces on both the club and newspaper sites about the two mascots. I also found a small site by Forever Bury and added a line about recent average attendance. Let me know if there is anything else I can help with. Thanks again. No Great Shaker (talk) 20:00, 4 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Ok all good. GA pass then. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:37, 4 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, Cas Liber. Much appreciated. All the best. No Great Shaker (talk) 20:49, 4 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 05:58, 13 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Bury F.C.

(
)
  • ... that in 2001, Bury Football Club had a mascot called "Robbie the Bobby", a police officer who was sent off three times by referees for bad behaviour? Source:George, Thomas (15 May 2018). "Bury FC's new mascot revealed". Bury Times. Retrieved 4 June 2019.

Improved to Good Article status by No Great Shaker (talk). Self-nominated at 12:53, 5 June 2019 (UTC).[reply]

  • Article was promoted to GA status within the last seven days, is over the required prose size and has no copyvio concerns. Hooks are both interesting and have an inline citation to a reliable source. User is exempt from QPQ as this appears to be their first DYK nomination. Good to go. Kosack (talk) 10:18, 8 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you, Kosack. Just to confirm you are right that I haven't used DYK before. I intend to learn about the review process and will help out when I feel capable. All the best. No Great Shaker (talk) 10:25, 8 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Hi, I came by to promote this, but the 3rd paragraph under "1895–1929" lacks a cite, per WP:DYKSG#D2, and the paragraph at the end of this section also has a "citation needed" tag. Yoninah (talk) 22:15, 11 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thank you. Restoring tick per Kosack's review. Yoninah (talk) 15:14, 12 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

reversion of vandalism[edit]

I reverted some vandalism this morning, but I had no idea whether the immediately previous edit was a good one or not, so if someone would check the work of Agijt89? --valereee (talk) 13:21, 27 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Valereee: The edit to the Bury kit pattern didn't work properly so I restored the previous version. I don't know if the editor is being disruptive or not but altering kit pattern variables on dozens of football pages seems a strange thing to do. I've looked at a few and, while some are no different after the change, others like Bury show subtle differences which are not readily apparent. Thanks for raising the matter here as it could have been missed given the next edit. No Great Shaker (talk) 15:24, 27 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
No Great Shaker, glad to help, even if somewhat incompetently. :) --valereee (talk) 15:54, 27 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Category missing[edit]

Category:Companies that have entered administration in the United Kingdom. Page protected so I cannot add it. 80.189.131.73 (talk) 20:28, 27 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

 Done that is uncontroversial as Bury F.C. have been in administration before, but I butchered the edit summary terribly, because I mean to refer to the collapse of ITV Digital. --Minoa (talk) 21:08, 27 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, scrap that: neither of the two sources mention administration by name. I’m always getting things so mixed up. --Minoa (talk) 21:12, 27 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
They entered (and were brought out of) administration in 2002; as you say the financial problems were related to ITV Digital collapsing. [1] [2] 80.189.131.73 (talk) 10:50, 28 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The Companies House source should be good enough, but I will let another editor add in the CH source and determine if the suggested category should be adopted, because my original edit would have been contested for not having a source that mentions Administration by name. --Minoa (talk) 16:56, 28 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
 Not done: The page's protection level has changed since this request was placed. You should now be able to edit the page yourself. If you still seem to be unable to, please reopen the request with further details. Melmann 16:32, 7 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Officially expelled from Football League.[edit]

Statement just released.[1]Culloty82 (talk) 22:14, 27 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ https://www.efl.com/news/2019/august/bury-fc-membership-of-the-league-withdrawn/

Semi-protected edit request on 27 August 2019[edit]

Change the league on Bury from League One to N/A. They have been expelled from the EFL. GingerNinjaCAFC (talk) 22:16, 27 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 28 August 2019[edit]

Change current words such was "is" and "plays" into their past versions, as Bury FC is now expelled from EFL Jammyjames16 (talk) 06:43, 28 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: The football club still exists as an entity for now, they are just without a league. Kosack (talk) 06:54, 28 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Squad list[edit]

Why has someone just deleted the squad? Have the club just released all the players? Cls14 (talk) 08:15, 28 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

they would technically still be contracted to the club. So yeah they will technically still be bury players... for now. (Wasn't me who removed them but they should prob be put back)Muur (talk) 08:42, 28 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I've restored them until sources confirm they're no longer under contract. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 09:15, 28 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
David Conn is reporting that the players are all free agents as Bury is no longer an EFL club.[3]-- Pawnkingthree (talk) 15:12, 28 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
He ends it saying "and can leave". Can't leave if youre still there. theyre still contracted to the team until actual sources say theyre not.Muur (talk) 21:38, 28 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
You can’t be a free agent and contracted. Pawnkingthree (talk) 21:59, 28 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
We have a source for them releasing 150 youth players, but still no mention of the remaining senior players. (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49514852)/ since bury have stated theyre going to sue the EFL and try and get their league spot back, they will prob try and retain these players in case they get put back in... though like with Archer leaving today, I forsee none of this will remain players come the closer of the transfer window on tuesday.Muur (talk) 22:03, 31 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

New league[edit]

So dus anybody know what will happen now? will they be reformed in a lower league? or completely folded? REDMAN 2019 11:54 28 August 2019 (GMT)

We don't have a crystal ball, but the team itself still exists, just doesn't have membership of the league. They could apply for membership of a lower league for next season. Alternatively, they could go into liquidation and start a new club in a lower league with a slightly different name, like how Chester City became Chester and Hereford United became Hereford. 2A00:23C5:E1AB:4500:FC04:71FD:6DF7:44AD (talk) 13:04, 28 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I'm pretty sure I saw a source mentioning that they were already going into liquidation from next week (or similar.) Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 14:37, 28 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Today's BBC article only mentions liquidation in reference to Maidstone United in 1992 (last league club to be expelled) and the possibility of Bolton going into liquidation. Quote: "It is not yet certain what will happen to Bury Football Club, its staff and players or the stadium." [4] 2A00:23C5:E1AB:4500:6064:C213:8477:B17 (talk) 17:15, 28 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

International players who played for Bury F.C.[edit]

The above suggestion I feel could make for some interesting reading. The likes of Neville Southall, Gary Kelly, Michael Nugent, Peter Reid and I have no doubt many more. How about such a Bury FC category ? 51.171.231.250 (talk) 22:24, 15 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

We do have the table of notable players in the article which was begun and then left in limbo with just three entries. You could expand that if you like. Many of these players, however, were not with Bury when they made international appearances. Colin Bell and Neville Southall, for example, began their careers at Gigg and made their international debuts soon after they moved to First Division clubs. Thanks. No Great Shaker (talk) 05:21, 16 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I have added a table of full international players - mainly from UK and Ireland (there may also be others from non-EU countries who won caps while at Bury). I have moved the content of the 'notable players' into a bulleted list and prose - feel free to add Southall, et al to the list. Paul W (talk) 08:53, 17 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Great work, Paul. Well done. No Great Shaker (talk) 16:38, 17 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I'm 99% sure our last-ever skipper Neil Danns played for 🇬🇾 Guyana while he was with us. If I can find anything to confirm, I'll add Neil to the list. No Great Shaker (talk) 22:48, 17 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I have added a note about Danns being the last Bury full international. I haven't yet found a source that provides an easy summary of all the Guyana matches he played in so that caps and goals while registered at Bury can be synthesised, so I haven't added him to the table yet. Paul W (talk) 11:07, 18 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Added Danns to the table based on the six games he played in qualifying and in the 2019 CONCACAF finals. Paul W (talk) 20:52, 23 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
That's great, Paul. Thanks again. My brother-in-law has been helping me search for confirmation but it's the needle in a haystack! No Great Shaker (talk) 14:07, 24 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I'm guessing Baichung Bhutia would be one of the best known of those who played international football while with Bury. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 09:22, 18 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Added Bhutia - found stats on the RSSSF website. Paul W (talk) 13:56, 21 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Est.1885[edit]

Hello, all. Just to clarify that our group's name is rendered Est.1885 with the period. I notice that some outlets including the BBC are spelling it wrong but, for confirmation, see our website. Thanks. No Great Shaker (talk) 11:06, 20 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Consensus to maintain the 1885 formation date of Bury FC post-merger[edit]

Decide in the event of a newco "Bury FC" returning to the English pyramid to:

  • A) maintain 1885 as the year the club was founded.
  • B) change the date to 2022 or 2023 or whenever the reformation occurs.
  • C) both e.g. under 'founded' infobox section include both 1885 and reformation of the newco

Background: In addition to the WikiProject/Football talk page about keeping/merging the Bury AFC article in the event of a merger (see for background on active irl events) we could probably also do with establishing consensus ahead of time for the decision above so as to help manage an inevitable edit war that occurred and could be spurred on by Rangers F.C. post-2012.

Nominator's argument in favour of option A: Common precedent on WikiProject/Football (shown below) is to separate the emotive legacy of a football club from the companies that operate them provided the different companies trade by the same team name. The "oldco" Bury F.C. wasn't even incorporated until 1897 but we consider the football club to be formed in 1885 because we look for more of a social construct than what is listed at Companies House. In this event, the "Bury F.C." name would live on.

Examples of precedent to support argument above:

Raised by JamesLewisBedford01 (talk) 02:38, 14 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

*option C) both There is a discontinuity not just in the Bury F.C. company, but also insofar as the 'new Bury F.C.' might - if the merger plans are agreed - actually be a previously separate club, the renamed Bury A.F.C. (founded December 2019; pedants might suggest an option D: that 1885, 2019 and 2022/3 all be noted!). There is also a subtle difference from the Darlington example: in that case, a new club was started immediately so there was no break in the footballing history; in Bury's case there was a season-long break between Bury's EFL expulsion and AFC's first competitive game. Paul W (talk) 15:28, 18 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I think AFC being a previously separate club is an indifference (and semantic) as the same was true of Darlo 1883 but I do see what you are saying about the discontinuity. There was no football (FC OR AFC alike) played in the 2019/20 season so a formation date that implies 1885–present is not entirely accurate and may need to mention reformation(s). Comment by James Lewis Bedford (talk) 16:06, 18 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Update The merger in the end did not go through.

Merge or retain separate Bury articles[edit]

There is a discussion on the Football WikiProject page about whether to merge or retain the Bury AFC article alongside the Bury FC article. Paul W (talk) 09:08, 25 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

the discussion above this one gives precedence to merge bury afc into this page, as darlington 1883 was merged into the regular darligonton page. same exact situation. kicked out of league, new team formed, new team later merges with old team as one team. same exact situation so treat it the same and merge afc into this one.Muur (talk) 22:34, 27 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
looks like its time for someone to merge.Muur (talk) 04:16, 6 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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