Talk:Cain Velasquez

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Did His Father Enter the U.S. Legally?[edit]

What does it mean that his father came to the U.S. a number of times, but finally successfully? That seems to be a polite way of saying his father was one of the 12 million illegal immigrants.

After some reflection, I have realized that this question is inflammatory against all immigrants to the United States, and I am a complete fuck-tard for asking it.

MMA Statsbox[edit]

Are we going to the boxing format with mma now?Just curious.(MgTurtle (talk) 14:38, 7 September 2009 (UTC)).[reply]

We use that format for any professional fighting sport.GSP-Rush (talk) 09:52, 3 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Quality of the article[edit]

This article contain alot of information and is on a very notable fighter. I think that rating this a stub article is insulting to the writer who took the time and wrote this ( it was not me ). I would be good if an adminstrator could come and rate this article appropriatly. GSP-Rush (talk) 06:24, 21 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Hey[edit]

I was mearly reminding the editors involved to be nice to newcommers ! Mlpearc MESSAGE 20:44, 28 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Article talk pages are only for discussion to do with improving the article, not for general chat. It was quite proper to remove your messages. More advice on your talk page soon. JohnCD (talk) 20:48, 28 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Ther was a huge debate going on between a newcomer and an experienced editor. I think reminding people not to bite the newcomer is pretty relevent here. Altought i don't realy think that put a photo of a man chewing on ball whit writing on it... is appropriate.GSP-Rush (talk) 09:50, 3 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

About the "Brown Pride" -tattoo[edit]

Cain comments on the "Brown Pride" -tattoo:

'I got my tattoo because I wanted people to know I was Mexican and that I was doing good things with my life. I'm really proud of what I went through to get where I am. Growing up, there wasn't anyone in the media [who was of Mexican decent] who I could look up to. There wasn't anyone who looked like me [in the media], so I never thought I would do something good. I figured I would just go out and join the regular work force. I never thought I'd make a career out of wrestling or fighting. I just wanted everyone to say I was just like them and that I was good at what I did.[1]

Based on that, I would say that it isn't a racist tattoo. If you are going to claim that it is, please accompany your claims with a source, and mention who thinks that it is racist (following the NPOV guidelines). hsaarinen (talk) 18:04, 5 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

First, Velasquez is setting up a straw man argument by using the word 'Mexican' rather than 'Brown'. His tattoo doesn't say "Mexican Pride", a nationality, but "Brown Pride", a racial connotation.

Second, I didn't say that the tattoo was racist, but carried a racist connotation. That is a fact, not opinion (POV).

Third, just because someone denies or obfuscates doesn't make his statement true. It just means that it is his opinion.

Fourth, you could include Velasquez's explanation in addition to the tattoo reference. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.127.58.141 (talk) 18:47, 5 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Connotation isn't a fact, it's an opinion. And before you get into the "Brown Pride is equivalent to White Pride" -argument, check out White Pride#Criticism.
And about the neutrality and adding sources, Wikipedia:Neutral point of view says: 'All Wikipedia articles and other encyclopedic content must be written from a neutral point of view, representing fairly, proportionately, and as far as possible without bias, all significant views that have been published by reliable sources. and about opinions: Values or opinions must not be written as if they were in Wikipedia's voice. When we want to present an opinion, we do so factually by attributing the opinion in the text to a person, organization, group of persons, or percentage of persons, and state as a fact that they have this opinion, citing a reliable source for the fact that the person, organization, group or percentage of persons holds the particular opinion. For instance, rather than asserting that "The Beatles were the greatest band ever", locate a source such as Rolling Stone magazine and say: "Rolling Stone said that the Beatles were the greatest band ever", and include a reference to the issue in which that statement was made.
So, if you want to add it, please cite the sources that claim the tattoo has a "racist connotation" and don't present it as a fact - since it isn't a fact. hsaarinen (talk) 19:14, 5 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

aaaand the winner by knockout "Hsaarinen"! good job —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.235.231.188 (talk) 06:37, 6 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I'm going to mention Velasquez' famous tattoo, albeit without any opinionated/political comment. Centrepull (talk) 05:04, 22 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2009/6/8/903053/quote-of-the-day-cain-velasquez

Sources for nationality[edit]

Do we have a citation for Velasquez's nationality for the lead? TIA --Tom (talk) 21:11, 5 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, http://www.ufc.com/CainVelasquez . It's also the first reference on the article page. hsaarinen (talk) 21:49, 5 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Where does it mention it? It shows that he was born in the US. So nationality should be American? --Tom (talk) 22:25, 5 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Oops, sorry. At least the LA Times article (ref. number 21., http://articles.latimes.com/2010/feb/20/sports/la-sp-ufc-velasquez20-2010feb20) mentions that his father is an Mexican immigrant and his mother is American. --hsaarinen (talk) 08:08, 6 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, that's fine, but without a citation showing that he has Mexican nationality, his ethnicity should be removed from the lead. --Tom (talk) 13:40, 7 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Everything I have read about Cain Velasquez is that his Nationality is American and his Ethnicity is Mexican. Born in America, schooled in America, American university. How could anyone list his Nationality as 'Mexican'? Mexican-American would be appropriate, imo, since Velasquez identifies with his Mexican ethnic heritage. But he definitely should not be listed as only 'Mexican'. It would be inaccurate. Dave Dial (talk) 02:21, 30 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Per WP:MOSBIO, ethnicity should not be used unless it is the reason for his notability. I have reverted while consensus is reached.--Threeafterthree (talk) 02:43, 30 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
So when it comes to Marcus Davis (A White MMA Fighter) Threeafterthree stops reverting the Irish but on a Mexican American who grew up 30 mins away from MEXICO he doesn't. Velasquez grew up spending his weekends and summers in San Luis Río Colorado, thats also were his Moms parents came from. Plus didn't Dana White refer to Cain as trying to be the FIRST EVER MEXICAN Heavyweight champion in History. But I know whats going on - It's ALL O.K. with Marcus Davis, Maybe Cain should of been IRISH.--Polvo (talk) 11:35, 31 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
"Throughout fighting history, there has never been a Mexican heavyweight champion, but at UFC 121, Cain Velasquez will try to make history and become the first," UFC President Dana White stated that at the official UFC: 121 fight card Announcement. Why might a company that makes it's money on PPV say he's MEXICAN. Maybe it's because California and Texas have always lead in PPV buys. Mexicans and Mexican Americans make up the bulk of those numbers. It's not a question of Nationality but of Ethnicity in the Lead. Again why does Marcus Davis have Irish and Velasquez is forced not to have a mention of his Ethnicity. When Cain always refers to himself as a Mexican.--Polvo (talk) 12:07, 31 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
"So when it comes to Marcus Davis (A White MMA Fighter) Threeafterthree stops reverting" - Good God. Paralympiakos (talk) 12:17, 31 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Polvo please cool it. I have reverted the article back for now. Please do not even insenuate(sp) this is about race for me. I don't give a sh$t about Polish/Jew/Mexican/white/black/republican/democrat/muslim/palestine/isreal/right/wrong/good/bad/onandonandon. Its about trying to get the articles "right" in terms of MOSBIO and NPOV. PERIOD! Most warriors on this project can't see the forest from the trees because of their passions/convictions/POV/milantcy/dislaikeforthe"other"side. To answer your question about why White might refer to him as Mexican, its about sales/money and the market he is in as you pointed out. I still believe this peron is most notable for being a fighter/athlete rather than his ethnic background. Also as far a Davis goes, I still don't like have ethnicity mentioned, but other editors disagreed and it seemed that there was "controversy/mention/whatever" about his being "Irish", ect, ect. Anyways, thanks for AGF, I am out for now, do whatever you guys want, I don't care. --Threeafterthree (talk) 13:48, 31 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Singular, not plural. I was quoting and expressed my disdain for that message by Polvo. Paralympiakos (talk) 14:13, 31 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I redacted "you guys" then :)....--Threeafterthree (talk) 14:34, 31 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think it's good right now, the lede descriptor as a Mexican-American(because of his heritage and there are enough sources indicating he's proud of his Mexican heritage) and his Nationality listed as American. It seems like an appropriate compromise, despite the uncalled for accusations of xenophobia by PolvoMexicano. Dave Dial (talk) 15:05, 31 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

FWIW in the hype episode for UFC 121 that is on Spike right now (1323 EDT 16 October 10) he describes himself as "Mexican" not "Mexican-American" or "American of Mexican descent" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.19.14.16 (talk)

He has Mexican parents; that itself gains him Mexican nationality. Plus he describes himself only as Mexican, comes in with the Mexican flag only and comes in with Mexican songs. 189.225.184.116 (talk) 05:37, 16 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

That above should be signed by me. Daalo194 (talk) 05:38, 16 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  • He's a citizen of the US, that makes him American. Having native Mexican parents does not give him Mexican nationality, it gives him native Mexican ethnicity. Machine Man (talk) 03:47, 20 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Would like to point out that Dana White is in no way a citeable source for CV's nationality. DW's primary objective in anything he says is to increase UFC PPV and live ticket sales, not to make encyclopedically accurate statements. The same goes for related media sources. I think the current framing is ok:

CV's self-described nationality (heritage/ethnicity is not really in question) is another issue entirely. Is he Mexican if he himself swears he is? Even if he is legally a US citizen? I believe Mexico and the US both allow dual citizenship. -- Centrepull (talk) 15:42, 1 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Reference Section[edit]

This section seems weird because it's more like an article more than a reference section. It's just weird IMO. Maybe we can do something to make it better. (MgTurtle (talk) 17:27, 3 October 2010 (UTC))[reply]

Would it be possible to link this page with the List of current mixed martial arts champions page? Thaddeus Venture (talk) 20:25, 29 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

His race is mestizo.[edit]

Mexican is a nationality not an ethnicity. He was born in the United States so his nationality is American even though he never displays the American flag . He always has the Mexican flag and does not support the USA. (Even the children of illegal immigrants born in America are treated as American under one interpretation of the 14th Amendment, although this is a whole separate controversy as to whether that improperly rewards the children of illegal aliens.) Hispanic/Latino is an umbrella cultural term for Spanish-speaking people of all races and ethnicities. "Brown" is recognized by no major sources as being an actual independent race. Mestizo however which implies mixed Amerindian and European ancestry which 80% of Mexico falls under is an accurate word. 184.96.234.249 (talk) 16:24, 23 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see "Brown" listed anywhere in the article. What are you trying to change? BrendanFrye (talk) 20:15, 24 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Edit request from 222.155.167.1, 24 October 2010[edit]

{{edit semi-protected}} "Cain Ramirez Velasquez[3] (born July 28, 1982) is a Mexican American[4] mixed martial artist in the Heavyweight division.[5] He defeated Brock Lesnar to become the UFC Heavyweight Championship at UFC 121." Umm how about: He defeated Brock Lesnar to become the UFC Heavyweight CHAMPION?? As if a man would turn into an actual competition...cmon. Lets be a bit more professional with our grammar, okay team?

222.155.167.1 (talk) 10:05, 24 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Seems done. Lots of editing between the request and now. -Atmoz (talk) 16:34, 24 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Fluent in Spanish[edit]

Cain Velasquez doesn't speak "fluent" spanish, go watch any of his spanish-language interviews. I know youtube can't be considered a reliable source but just check it out if you don't believe me, it's the man himself. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdynolYeXaA — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.138.132.197 (talk) 19:41, 27 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

His grammar is extremely bad, his pronunciation cannot be considered "Spanish," and his vocabulary is extremely limited. It would be a huge overstatement and just a flat out lie to say he speaks Spanish fluently. Also, the citation that says he is indeed fluent is from cagepotato.com, which is not a reliable source, and it does NOT mention anywhere in the article that he speaks Spanish fluently.. This is a blatant coverup of the truth and it should not be stated that he speaks Spanish fluently. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.125.22.209 (talk • contribs)

Sorry the comment that I edited was not someone elses but my own old comment. I have a dynamic IP address so that's why my IP is different. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.125.22.209 (talk) 21:59, 27 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I am a native Spanish speaker and after listening to the Spanish interview in youtube I can tell that his Spanish is fine if not perfect. He can speak Spanish much better than the interviewer. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.61.231.79 (talk) 15:59, 11 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Ramírez Velásquez or Velásquez Ramírez?[edit]

Obviously Ramírez is his mother's née. So is his name spelled American style ([mother's family name] [father's family name], i.e. Ramírez Velásquez), or Hispanic style ([father's family name] [mother's family name], i.e. Velásquez Ramírez)? --bender235 (talk) 12:20, 27 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

IPA[edit]

Do anyone have the WP:IPA for "Velasquez"? I hear so many different pronunciations of the namely, namely how to say to "u". I don't speak that language at all, but some say it quite literally and some say it more like "Velasqéz". Mazter00 (talk) 14:42, 31 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Ethnicity as a Mexican[edit]

Can someone claim to be a Mexican if they were born in california? It seems like he is american with a Mexican heritage. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.86.81.141 (talk) 22:58, 2 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Mexican is both a nationality and ethnic group. He's fully capable of describing himself as such, but it would be more accurate to say "Mexican-American" or "American of Mexican descent." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.168.185.218 (talk) 17:10, 3 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Velasquez's Nationality[edit]

This article should not confused Velasquez's nationality with his ethnicity. It should be mention first that he is an American, no matter how strongly he identifies as Mexican or Mexican-American. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.208.170.100 (talk) 05:29, 29 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Edit request on 20 October 2013 (Cain's mma achievements)[edit]

Cain ties with Randy Couture, Tim Sylvia and Brock Lesnar for most title defenses (two)

First defense against Antonio Silva and second against Junior Dos Santos. 86.96.61.76 (talk) 10:32, 20 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: Please say exactly what you want put where in the article, and provide reliable sources for it. Thanks. --Stfg (talk) 11:36, 20 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Mexican American[edit]

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Pronunciation[edit]

I've heard his first name pronounced as "Kye-EEN" in addition to "Kane". Could someone clarify? Mac Dreamstate (talk) 22:57, 7 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Seems to me you are referring to the Spanish pronunciation of the name, as opposed to the English pronunciation. Since Cain is of Mexican descent in part, it seems to me some people would use the Spanish pronunciation of the name. warshy (¥¥) 22:01, 8 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 5 November 2019[edit]

some information is wrong and it needs to be corrected 84.19.44.233 (talk) 11:54, 5 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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