Talk:Carlisle (disambiguation)

Rearrangement of topics

I would like to propose a minor rearrangement of the topics on this disambiguation page. Normally I'd just go for it, but in this case it may be controversial. I suggest that less weight is given to the entry for City of Carlisle. I suspect that its prominent position at the top of the list is diverting some readers to that article when actually they want to go to the article about Carlisle proper at Carlisle, Cumbria. Page hits for these two articles are very similar, as they are for other locations such as Lancaster, which are disambiguated in the same way. However, other primary locations, as opposed to local govenment areas, attract far more hits when they're not disambiguated. Have a look at Greater Manchester and Manchester as an example, and there are many more. My proposal is to place Carlisle, Cumbria at the top of the list with City of Carlisle next, and on the same indent level. I would also like to provide better a better explanation in the case of Carlisle proper as follows:

• Carlisle, Cumbria, a city in Cumbria, England, known also as the Border City
• City of Carlisle, a local government non-metropolitan district of Cumbria, England (no change)

At some point it could make sense to rename City of Carlisle to something like City of Carlisle, local government area, or words to that effect, to give further clarity to the matter.

Are there any other views on this? LevenBoy (talk) 17:05, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

I support the proposal to rearrange the list. (Personally, I dislike "known also as the Border City" as that's really just a marketing device, not actually one of its official names. You could equally call Berwick-upon-Tweed the border city if you wanted to. You could call carlisle "the city in Cumbria" as it's the only one.) --Northernhenge (talk) 17:31, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

I would be against any rename as it is the correct name as it stands for the district, trying to give it further dab is unnecessary and confusing. Keith D (talk) 19:17, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

A rename, especially to Levenboy's suggested name would be silly. Keep it simple. The point of the dab page is to distinguish between the local government district and the settlement proper, so renaming the page would be overkill. As for the current layout of the dab page, I understand the logic of both positions, but am leaning towards the status quo. While I appreciate logic that the two articles should be given equal placing as they get equal hits, I do not think that the current arrangement is doing the articles or the reader a disservice. Carlisle, Cumbria, is within the City of Carlisle, and not only that but it's administered by the City of Carlisle. That's assuming that there is some disparity in the current layout, which I really don't think there is. If anything, because it's indented from the rest of the list Carlisle, Cumbria, is more prominent. The two links are adjacent, one isn't tucked half-way down the page so keep the layout as it is. Also, why would you place Carlisle, Cumbria, above City of Carlisle? Nev1 (talk) 19:54, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

I can't see how this dab page would force anyone to read one article over another. I oppose both the rewording and the renaming. However, I've read WP:MOSDAB and I can't see anything about indenting there so, unless anyone can find something to say it is essential, I would not be opposed to the one list item being unindented. I really don't think it will make much difference though. MRSC (talk) 21:09, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

So how about removing the indent then? I think the first two entries should be reversed because the settlement is the primary topic in which most people would be interested. Although page stats give a pretty even split I'd be interested to see if there was any change without the indent and reversal of the first two links. This could be monitored for a month and then put back to how it is now if necessary. LevenBoy (talk) 20:09, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

The page stats argument assumes all view are coming via this dab page. Clearly they are not, it is just as possible the pages are viewed via direct links to the articles. Looking elsewhere, New York (disambiguation) starts with the state and then the city. I would argue that NYC is the primary topic that most people would be interested in, but instead the larger entity is listed first. MRSC (talk) 08:47, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Not at all. I was merely using the page stats to demonstrate relative levels of interest. The fact that the Carlisle articles buck the tend and have a disambiguation page of the current format (also true for Salford) perhaps suggests that the disambguation page has something to do with it. However, can we at least agree that the indentation of Carlisle, Cumbria should be removed? LevenBoy (talk) 20:33, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Sure, why not. I don't think it's particularly important. Nev1 (talk) 18:59, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

I was extremely surprised that this page wasn't about the city in Cumbria. This page should be renamed Carlisle (disambiguation) and Carlisle, Cumbria should be renamed simply Carlisle, with an otheruses link to City of Carlisle and Carlisle (disambiguation). See Worcester as an example. For instance: "This article is about the city of Carlisle in England. For the local government area, see City of Carlisle. For other uses, see Carlisle (disambiguation)."

You say you are surprised that the page isn't about the city in Cumbria.... Carlisle, Cumbria is not a city. The City of Carlisle is a city. This is precisely why it was moved - to avoid this mistake. The format "PLACENAME, COUNTY" is not about what people say, it is the way we disambiguate ambiguous names (see WP:PLACE. Format used at Lancaster, Salford and others. --Jza84 |  Talk  18:28, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Bad choice of name

This address should direct to the town of Carlisle, and the list moved to "Carlisle (disambiguation)".

None of this "Carlisle, Cumbria" nonsense please - that's an Americanism. Most people in Carlisle still relate to Cumberland not the manufactured region of Cumbria anyway.--MacRusgail (talk) 18:33, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

Agreed. . . Mean as custard (talk) 11:09, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Carlisle, Cumbria which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 09:00, 20 August 2018 (UTC)