Talk:Chartwell/GA1

GA Review[edit]

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Reviewer: Tim riley (talk · contribs) 11:36, 28 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Doing first read-through. Comments to follow soonest. I don't think Wikipedia's rules disqualify me from reviewing this piece simply because its nominator happens to be a personal friend of mine. I am even nastier to my friends than to everyone else, as will doubtless be evident shortly. Tim riley talk 11:36, 28 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Tim, absolutely delighted that you are picking this up, and that you are back, if only occasionally. It really hasn't been the same. I fully expect you to pull apart the grammar, the over-quoting, the MoS failings and my lamentable errors in relation to the peerage. And the article will be much the better for your so doing. Or should that be "doing so"? I'll let you get through the review and then address the points raised. All the very best. KJP1 (talk) 17:08, 28 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Detailed comments and suggestions[edit]

From a first reading it seems plain that this article more than meets GA standards, and would be a suitable candidate for FA, but as I am reviewing at present against GAN criteria, these are my comments so far. More to follow. They are mostly mere suggestions rather than sticking-points in promotion to GA.

Lead
- I'll return to this after I've read the whole of the main text. For now I merely note that you have a dangling phrase in the third sentence: the prose says that Chartwell was excluded from office, whereas you mean that WSC was excluded. If you change it to something like: "In the thirties, when Churchill was excluded from political office, Chartwell became the centre of his world…" all will be well.

Y Done

The House
- Not sure about ULC for this header or for the Gardens and Estate section later. Other things being equal I think the norm is sentence case for headers unless they contain proper nouns.

Y Done, I think, by making both lower case.

"This view 'possessed Churchill'" – two points here. First we want double rather than single quotes unless the MoS has been radically overhauled since I last grappled with it. Secondly, the phrase looks like a quotation from, I assume, Buczacki, in which case it would be as well to attribute it in the text. It looks a bit lacking in context as it stands.

Y Done - Agreed, it was a hangover from an earlier version and didn't flow. I've removed it as a direct quote.

Exterior
- "three of the house's most significant rooms" – and what do they signify? Probably safer just to call them important.

Y Done

Interior
- "1920-30s" – looks a bit odd. I think you need an en-dash instead of the comma, and to my eye "1920s–30s" would flow better than "1920–30s". Just a suggestion.

Y Done

Entrance Hall and Inner Hall
- I take it that the name of the room "Lady Churchill's Sitting Room" is its official current name. I ask only because for most of the years in which the Churchills lived there she was Mrs Churchill. There is a separate question about the capitalisation of the names of all the rooms. I don't propose to raise it here, but if you go to FAC be prepared to defend your capitalisations contra mundum.

It is, at least in Garnett's NT guide which I think is the most up-to-date authority. But you're quite right, Clementine was Mrs C for the majority of their time at Chartwell. Re. the capitalisations, quite happy to change them if you think it better. Again, I'm just following Garnett, e.g. "wrote in his first floor Study" (p=54) (my bold italic).

The Study
- "World War II"? But it was the Second World War in the lead. As the latter is the usual BrE form I'd stick to that if I were you.

Y Done

"Churchill's parents, Lord Randolph Churchill and Lady Churchill" – I can almost hear the assembled staff of Burke's Peerage calling for their sal volatile: the wife of the younger son of a duke (or marquess) takes her husband's given name as part of her title, and she is Lady Randolph Churchill, not Lady Churchill (unlike Clementine).

Y Done

"but prior to her death in 2014, Churchill's daughter Mary gave permission" – unless a ouija board was involved it is not to be expected that she'd have given permission after her death. "Shortly before" or "x years before" would be fine, of course.

Y Done

Architecture and appreciation
- "Victorian architecture at its least attractive" – I thought of commenting on this, with reference to 'St— 'st— 'st— and What's-his-name, and also You-know who, but decided you would probably kill me.

You're very kind!

The Gardens and Estate
- "Gardens Advisor to the National Trust" – does the trust really use the American spelling rather than the English "adviser"? Rather sad, if so.

Y Done - The Trust does not, my typo.

"In 1946-7" – I know the MoS's rules on date ranges have changed while I've been absent from editing, but I'd risk a modest bet that "1946-7" doesn't comply with them.

Y Done - I hope "In 1946-47"?

That's all for now. More later today, I hope. I'm greatly enjoying the article. – Tim riley talk 12:16, 28 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Concluding batch of comments

1922 to 1939
- "Clementine's anxieties regard the costs" – I think you may have meant to write "regarding", but "about" would be better.

Y Done - as "about".

"we must endeavour for live there" – not English: please check Churchill's ipsissima verba

Y Done - my typo, apologies.

"industrialist Sir Henry Strakosch" – horrible false title. Do please consider adding a "the" before "industrialist"

Y Done

1939 to 1965
"Churchill took time to extend a welcome to an old friend…all will come right if we all work together to the end." – I can't see what this has to do with the history of the house if its only connexion is that WSC wrote it from there – pretty tenuous. Or did the Duke come and stay there?

Y Done - by removal. He didn't come to stay and it was tenuous.

"the Churchills first returned to Chartwell on 18th May 1945" – "18 May" is the MoS style as I recall it.

Y Done

"Churchill lost the June 1945 general election. Churchill almost immediately went abroad" – I might make the second Churchill a plain he.

Y Done

Lead

"Closed up during the Second World War the Churchills returned to Chartwell" – another hanging phrase: the Churchills were not closed up. Perhaps something on the lines of, "Chartwell was closed up during the Second World War; the Churchills returned…"

Y Done

"The Campbell Colquhouns" – hyphenated in the main text, but not here.

Y Done - by removing the hyphen in the main text, as the name isn't.

"significantly extended the house" – more otiose significance. Perhaps "considerably"

Y Done

"it was bought by the National Trust for Places of Historic Interest or Natural Beauty" – I’d be inclined to pipe this: the National Trust tout court. Again, it's just a suggestion.

Y Done

These are my few, and very minor, suggestions. Pray consider, and we can then move to the tape-cutting ceremony. – Tim riley talk 19:50, 28 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Overall summary[edit]

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

Is it reasonably well written?
A. Prose quality:

B. MoS compliance for lead, layout, words to watch, fiction, and lists:
Is it factually accurate and verifiable?
A. References to sources:
Well referenced.

B. Citation of reliable sources where necessary:
Well referenced.

C. No original research:
Is it broad in its coverage?
A. Major aspects:

B. Focused:
Is it neutral?
Fair representation without bias:
Is it stable?
No edit wars, etc:
Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?
A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:
Well illustrated.

B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:
Well illustrated.
Overall:
Pass or Fail:

On to FAC in due course, I hope, perhaps via peer review. This article seems to me to be a potential FA as it stands. A pleasure to review. – Tim riley talk 10:25, 29 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Tim - really appreciated and glad you liked it. I think PR is the way forward and shall push it there shortly. Best regards. KJP1 (talk) 12:26, 29 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]