Talk:Chortai

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Photo[edit]

Just a suggestion: The photo of the Hortaya Borzaya shown is downright skeletal, champion or not. If a more suitable photograph of a healthier looking dog with proper weight could be found it would help give a better (and more responsible) representation of this breed.

I hate to critique and not offer any solution... I'd help if I could, but my dogs are Borzoi and Tibetan Mastiff, I can offer no picture of these dogs. Cherchez la Femme 14:58, 28 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This dog looks exactly as dogs of this breed and breed type look. It has the proper weight for a dog of this breed. Should - for the convenience of western people so used to fat and meaty animals - asian dog breeds be fed to comply with western aesthetics? A Hortaya fed to the point of "meatiness" considered "healthy" by western people would actually be sick, with grave troubles to liver, heart and basic bone structure. In all asian sightdog breeds (and quite some african ones as well) visibility of vertebrae, ribs and hipbones is entirely normal. A look at e.g. Azawakh or Bakhmul will correct such assumptions: http://www.agraria.org/cani/azawakh.jpg or http://www.kennels.cz/image_show.php?image_id=33 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.188.224.25 (talk) 13:04, 10 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

IPA pronounciation[edit]

The IPA pronounciation is a nice idea, but already now the name is horribly mangled by English/American English speakers with the X/Ch regularly pronounded as in chortle and the J whenever it gets included in English as in jackal. So while the former pronounciation info may have been non-standard it at least got the job done. IPA does not, as I unfortunately had occasion to discuss with newly interested American Hortaya aficionados. —Preceding unsigned comment added by HortayaBorzaya (talk • contribs) 11:02, 1 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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Citation[edit]

The article is listed for modification or deletion, I will work on the sources. Otherwise except for the section on breeding the article looks decent.--LoraxJr 18:41, 25 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Breeding[edit]

@ Cavalryman @ William Harris section on breeding in this article has zero sources and I could not find any verification neither in Russian nor in English. Other sections can be sources. Will it be ok if I delete this section completely? --LoraxJr 18:53, 25 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hello there LoraxJr. Given that another editor placed "refimprove|date=October 2010" over the entire article back in 2010, interested editors have had more than adequate time to provide references. Feel free to delete the entire section as it is unsourced. Wikipedia is built by text drawn from cited WP:RELIABLE sources. William Harris (talk) 20:05, 25 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hello again LoraxJr, I have a couple of sources that bring this article into line, but you are right, all of the unreferenced and unreliably referenced material needs to be removed. Regards, Cavalryman (talk) 20:32, 25 January 2021 (UTC).[reply]

LoraxJr, I have completed a rewrite and afterwards saw you added a number of websites as sources [1]. Websites like dogzone.com fall short of what we consider reliable and local agreement is to remove them whenever we see them, you can see the most recent discussion at WT:DOGS#Sources, this discussion includes a list of bad sources including dogzone.com. Kind regards, Cavalryman (talk) 08:12, 26 January 2021 (UTC).[reply]

Cavalryman Thank you for your advice, I have not come across that discussion yet, will know now. Hortaya is a relatively rare breed, but there are more sources in Russian, that I could ad. Will do so soon. --LoraxJr 21:48, 26 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Just beware citing anything from many of the websites that pop up on Google, most of them are self-published sources, unless you can clearly find the author’s details and demonstrate the author is an expert in the field (in reality been previously published by a reputable publishing house) the website cannot be used, many of them use Wikipedia as a source.

If you could track down a breed standard at the Russian Kynological Federation [2] that would be a great addition. Kind regards, Cavalryman (talk) 22:16, 26 January 2021 (UTC).[reply]

Unfortunately they are not recognised by RKF. LoraxJr 12:13, 27 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Many thanks. Cavalryman (talk) 12:24, 27 January 2021 (UTC).[reply]

There's an official standard since 1951 and the breed is recognised officially by Russia, Belorus, Ukraine, Poland, Czechia, Slowenia, Slowakia, and Hungary.

And guys, you have vandalised this entry, denigrating several of the go-to breed experts and breed judges with over 50 years of experience. Sometimes one simply has to go the extra mile and look up the status of people in Cyrillic. Grainsofsalt (talk) 06:49, 15 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Editing Vandalism[edit]

All your "cleaning up" has turned this entry into a singularly error-ridden mess without any truthful or cogent information whatsoever. One glance at the Russian entry could have provided proof, citations and enough information to please even the worst of nitpickers.

The much criticized paragraph on breeding is a subsumption of Dr. Stanovoi's, Lada Ponomareva's and Dr. Shubkina's essays. Dr. Stanovoi is a Russian veterinarian, and has translated the Russian standard of the breed, as consequently instituted as the national Chortay standard in Czechia. Lada Ponomareva and Dr. Shubkina are experts on the breed, kynologists, biologists and the latter is the director of the main preservation efforts of the Russian state regarding this breed. It's arrogant to accuse them of being hobbyists. They were cited as sources.

The last iteration of this entry which achieved any meaningful level of correct and basic information can be found at [3] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Grainsofsalt (talk • contribs) 08:20, 23 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]