Talk:Chris Hipkins/Archive 1

Birthdate

What's the source for the subject's date of birth and most of his bio? –Giantflightlessbirds (talk) 21:22, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

For now, I have reduced it to the year of birth, as there is a reference for that. Schwede66 23:38, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

This story from the New Zealand Herald supports 5 September 1978 as being Hipkins' date of birth. Paora (talk) 00:02, 23 November 2021 (UTC)

Good spotting, Paora. That's a good enough source. Schwede66 02:25, 23 November 2021 (UTC)

Vandalism report

There are two different places of birth given in the article, Islamabad and Hutt Valley? Villafancd (talk) 02:12, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

Seems to have already been edited! Villafancd (talk) 02:12, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

New Image

Chris_Hipkins_NZ_Labour_(cropped)

Hello everyone! from what I've seen from articles such as Rishi Sunak, Jacinda Ardern, and Boris Johnson, it's traditional to have non-parliamentary photos for new leaders. Something less like school photo day and something unique and more professional. Here is a photo taken a year ago that would suffice. 222.152.246.236 (talk) 09:17, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 January 2023

Kia ora,

Someone has just added a distinguish tag which does not appear relevant since the subject was announced to be NZ PM:

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Chris_Hipkins&diff=prev&oldid=1134818637

There is no need to distinguish this page with the page Hipkiss (artist). Neither Hipkins nor Hipkiss redirect to either page and Hipkiss is just one of many potential misspellings of Hipkins. No reasoning is supplied in the edit description. Surely this is just silly? The page is edit protected or I would fix this. BedazzledPanda (talk) 14:54, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

After having a conversation with the editor on my talk page, it seems they are concerned someone misspelling this page's name Chris Hipkiss would go to Chris Hipkiss. I guess this is plausible, so perhaps the distinguish tag can stay on the Hipkiss (artist) page. But I cannot see how anyone looking for Hipkiss (artist) would be searching for Chris Hipkins - Chris Hipkiss is the long-defunct name of Hipkiss (artist) and there is unlikely to be any confusion ever on this point. Per WP:HATCONFUSE/WP:HATMISSPELL, "These hatnotes should only be used when the ambiguity exists for a significant portion of the readership.". There is no ambiguity present for this page. Therefore I would still maintain the hatnote should be removed on this page. BedazzledPanda (talk) 22:29, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

Removed the distinguish tag from this page. It seems completely redundant. Actually its presence suggests there is a confusion where no such confusion exists. Probably the tag should be removed from Hipkiss (artist) as well so as to avoid suggesting a confusion on that page. OrewaTel (talk) 00:36, 22 January 2023 (UTC)

Edit warring

I note that there has been considerable dispute and edit warring over whether to have Prime Minister included in the infobox (with the assuming office tag) and further dispute over whether to label that as PM designate or just PM.

I'm not particularly that involved and relatively indifferent, but a decision should be discussed and people should cease their edit warring. Carolina2k22 • (talk) • (edits) 17:07, 22 January 2023 (UTC)

Let's keep with the facts. Currently (Monday morning NZ time) Chris is Labour Party Leader Designate. He won't become leader until the caucus meets later this morning. Okay. That's a fine distinction and it will be cleared up in about an hour. (The caucus should rubber stamp his leadership.) Nevertheless some folks have jumped the gun. Prime Minister? Now that's different. Until the Governor-General calls his name, Chris is not the PM. It's possible that Cindy Kiro could call someone else. Highly unlikely but it is legally possible and it has happened in Australia. On Wednesday morning Cindy will make an announcement and then we can change Chris from PM Designate to PM. Many of us will watch the proclamation live on television. At that point the inevitable edit can be made. The cited reference can be added later that day when NZ Government website is updated. OrewaTel (talk) 19:52, 22 January 2023 (UTC)

Yeah definitely, this is probably the wisest approach to take and the one that is most in line with everything that is going on. Designate does sound suitable, and I can understand that just having PM, assuming office, could cause some confusion to readers who skim over it all. Carolina2k22 • (talk) • (edits) 03:26, 23 January 2023 (UTC)

[Note: I typed this up before OrewaTel replied.] I've reverted back to how the infobox appeared as of yesterday. This dispute is one editor versus several other editors, so the onus is on that editor to put forward his case. @Knowledgework69: you would be best placed to discuss changes here. The fact is Hipkins has been popularly described as the "prime minister designate".[1] The governor-general formally appoints a person to be "prime minister" (a position that exists by convention, not statute), but in practice, the prime minister is designated by the governing party or coalition. I recognise that there is no office titled "prime minister-designate". Perhaps, as a compromise, the infobox can be amended to state only "Prime Minister ... assuming office 25 January 2023"? Feel free to argue your case. --Hazhk (talk) 19:54, 22 January 2023 (UTC)

Apologies, I just noticed that there was a talk page section about the infobox - I have already edited it. In this case, I moved the term "designate" from office to status - as there is no official office "PM designate". However, this is not a remark on whether it should be in the infobox at all. I agree generally with Hazhk's remarks above. The change I've made keeps "designate" clear and central without implying it is an official office that he holds. ArcMachaon (talk) 15:27, 23 January 2023 (UTC)

Thank you, this resolves the situation well! Carolina2k22 • (talk) • (edits) 01:38, 24 January 2023 (UTC)

Hi Carolina.

Just a note that the mention of Tim Shadbolt being the Mayor of Invercargill needs editing as he is no longer the Mayor.

m. 122.58.80.9 (talk) 01:00, 28 January 2023 (UTC)

@Hazhk This is not correct, in practice, the Prime Minister is appointed by the Governor-General, leadership elections within a political party are merely indicative to the GG as to which MP is most likely to command the confidence of the majority of MPs in the Legislature, who will then be appointed as PM and invited to nominate a cabinet, but this "designation" by the party is not binding on the GG.

Popular use by the media is quite a different concept from factual correctness. Bcmh (talk) 15:30, 24 January 2023 (UTC)

I have merely reinstated the content that you removed without explanation, that was reinstated several times previous. He will be sworn in very soon, so let's just wait until then! --Hazhk (talk) 16:33, 24 January 2023 (UTC)

Bcmh, are you sure you are talking about New Zealand? What you describe may fit the UK situation. Schwede66 17:48, 24 January 2023 (UTC)

For years (now) in the infobox, Wikipedia has been using the "[Political office|Political office-designate]" or "[Political office|Political office-elect]" style, for incoming political office holders. Please, wait until Hipkins becomes prime minister, before adding the "41st" bit, too. GoodDay (talk) 18:25, 24 January 2023 (UTC)

Spread your legs

Chippy's gaffe is mentioned in Chris Hipkins#Second term (2020–2023). He used the expression "Spread your legs" by mistake when he meant to say "Stretch your legs". The article says that he meant to say "Spread your wings." My correction was reverted. The article has three references, all of which say "Stretch your legs."

When Hipkins later realised his slip-up, he said he would go and “stretch his legs”

saying it was a challenge for those in high-density areas to "get out and spread their legs" rather than stretch them.

They also suggested that Hipkins meant to say “stretch your legs” which, in context, is surely the best guess.

My correction has been re-instated. OrewaTel (talk) 22:06, 5 April 2023 (UTC)

@OrewaTel: Please accept my apologies! I evidently should have read the article more closely as I looked only for the 'wings' comment, overlooking the text that you quoted. I apologise also for reverting your revision (and my comment), which was really poor behaviour. --Hazhk (talk) 20:44, 7 April 2023 (UTC)

All good. OrewaTel (talk) 06:21, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

No reference to most famous gaffe?

Should there be a reference to his most famous gaffe since taking office, where he could not define what a woman was because he hadn't had the time to pre-formulate an answer in advance:

“To be honest, that question has come out of left field for me." “I wasn’t expecting that question, so it wasn’t something I pre-formulated an answer on. But in terms of gender identity, people identify for themselves". 203.46.132.214 (talk) 05:52, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

Famous? I don't even see a gaffe there. Are you sure this isn't just some sort of beat-up by his political opponents? HiLo48 (talk) 08:22, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

It was an ambush by a known anti-government homophobic journalist. Chippy was given the option of making up precise policy on the hoof or saying that he did not know the answer to a question. He chose the latter option but clarified it with his personal view. Most NZ news media ignored it or reported his clarification, "people identify for themselves." Not WP:N because of WP:NotNews.OrewaTel (talk) 10:09, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

The gaffe is that the answer is self evident and non-controversial for the majority, however he was scared of what a minority may think if he provided an answer considered unsatisfactory to them. The whole point of being a world leader is that you are unafraid of what certain segments of society think of your views, you're not there to please everyone, only the majority. 203.46.132.214 (talk) 01:31, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

Please provide a reliable source for everything you have written there after your first use of the word "majority". HiLo48 (talk) 03:15, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

Pre-election Opinion Polls

Labour are languishing in the polls with 29% whereas National have 34%. But despite this when asked who would make the better Prime Minister, Hipkins with 43% was ahead of Luxon at 32%. (see https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/aug/09/guardian-essential-poll-new-zealand-national-holds-clear-lead-over-labour-as-election-nears ) There was a paragraph stating this fact that was removed for no good reason. It's reinstatement was immediately reverted with the comment that it is false. To avoid an edit war, i have brought it to the talk page. Unless a good reason is given, I shall reinstate that paragraph with a citation tomorrow.

Of course, it could be argued that the paragraph is current news and so is not encyclopaedic. That, however, is different from deleting a true statement because it doesn't fit certain politics. OrewaTel (talk) 08:43, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

Hello. I agree I should of done a talk page, you're right. Anywho, the judgement I made was based off this poll realsed today https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/election-2023-new-poll-shows-labour-crashing-nzf-rising-and-national-act-with-enough-support-to-govern/HNJHVHFYWRBY3HO735BBDFTHFA/ Shows Luxon and Hipkins tied. It's also on here Opinion polling for the 2023 New Zealand general election. Kiwiz1338 (talk) 08:57, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

So with my previous point and the WP:NOTNEWS aspect of it that you mentioned shall we agree to keep it deleted? Kiwiz1338 (talk) 10:03, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

Contrast this analysis: https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/132670745/national-and-act-on-track-for-election-win-latest-political-poll-shows It's only a couple of days old but it has Hipkins riding high and Luxon in the cellar. With this degree of fluctuation, either we should present a graph or table showing the variations or we should declare that the entire situation is current news. I'm going to treat this as non-encyclopaedic current news. I shall consider presenting this data after the election if it is still interesting but in the meantime I agree that the paragraph should be deleted.OrewaTel (talk) 11:04, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

Sweet. I appreciate your help. Kiwiz1338 (talk) 11:42, 11 August 2023 (UTC)