Talk:Ciena

Deletion

Why is this article targeted for speedy deletion? The entry has been in Wikipedia since 2005 and the company made a significant contribution to the expansion of the Internet. Please let me know what is offensive in the current iteration so I can make changes.

Thanks (Mhcjr 15:55, 4 October 2007 (UTC))

I did not flag it, and I agree that the article warrants keeping (many sources would be available for a $400M/yr company), but much of the article is trash. It contains sentences such as "The founding of Ciena in Linthicum, Md., was perfectly timed to ride the Internet wave. When Ciena finally went public in 1997, it raised $3.4 billion in that year's hottest IPO." Quatloo 19:08, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Fair enough. I'll make some edits, although I think it's relevant that the company was "the hottest IPO" that year; I'll find a less cheesy, more quantifiable way to say it.

(Mhcjr 20:14, 4 October 2007 (UTC))

Article Rework

I'd suggest someone needs to take a look at this article as it reads like a corporate advert. I'm not disputing the notability, we just need a NPOV here! fiftyquid (talk) 18:29, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

```` It would be a shame to remove this page since Ciena is an industry leader and innovator in the networking world. I agree that a re-write is needed to improve style, flow, and provide a more encyclopedic tone. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZTE seems like more of an advertisement until the "Legal Controversy" section.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Joegomez777 (talk • contribs) 06:48, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Chairman

Gary Smith is now Ciena's Chairman. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.69.173.84 (talk) 17:27, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

That's not correct, Patrick Nettles is Ciena's Executive Chairman of the Board of Directors. Gary Smith is Ciena's President and CEO, and also resides on the BOD. I suggest we remove this suggested edit Bogowan (talk) 20:39, 5 April 2021 (UTC)

External links modified

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Overview section

Hello! As part of my work for Beutler Ink, I've been working with Ciena to identify some updates and other improvements to the company's Wikipedia article. Currently, the article has some unsourced and poorly-sourced content, and could use some updating. Before diving into the History section, I'd like to propose adding an Overview section (or Corporate overview, if editors prefer), which I've seen in many other company articles on Wikipedia. The purpose of this section is to give readers a very basic description of the company and confirm Ciena's headquarters location, year of establishment, number of employees, and key C-suite personnel, as well as notable investors and clients. All of the claims are sourced by reputable secondary coverage. Ciena has confirmed the accuracy of these claims, and I've drafted brief and neutral language for editors to review and copy over appropriately. Please see the following proposed Overview section:

Extended content

Ciena Corporation is a telecommunications networking equipment and software services supplier, based in Hanover, Maryland. The company, founded in 1992, has been described by The Baltimore Sun as the "world's biggest player in optical connectivity". Ciena also provides software; in fiscal year 2018, the company generated $200 million in revenue from software, including $26 million from the software division known as Blue Planet. Ciena has approximately 6,000 employees, as of October 2018. Gary Smith serves as president and chief executive officer (CEO). James Frodsham is Ciena's chief strategy officer. Early investors in the company included Charles River Ventures, Japan Associated Finance Co., Sevin Rosen Funds, Star Venture, and Vanguard Venture Partners. Customers include AT&T, Deutsche Telekom, Korea Telecom, Sprint Corporation, and Verizon Communications.

References
References

Like similar company articles, I propose this section be added above the existing History. Are any editors willing to review this request and update the article on my behalf? I'm happy to address any questions or concerns. Thanks for your consideration, Inkian Jason (talk) 17:10, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for this contribution. Unfortunately it has WP:PEACOCK and WP:RESUME problems. The information you wish to present here is already largely handled by the infobox. Overview sections are not as common or as useful as you're suggesting. ~Kvng (talk) 23:45, 3 March 2020 (UTC)

@Kvng: Thanks for reviewing this request, and for adding citations to the infobox. Understand that you prefer not to add this text, and I'll look into other appropriate places to include any of the details that aren't in the infobox. Also, I've identified some updates for the History section, but before sharing, I wonder if you'd be willing to help by removing some of the article's poorly-sourced and unsourced text. Right now, the last two paragraphs of the History section ("Despite setbacks along the way…", "In 2000, Ciena announced…") are problematic, and much of the content in the Market downturn and diversification subsection is poorly sourced as well. The Recent Events section seems out of place; the second claim may be inappropriately sourced, not to mention "Recent" links to Holocene. Do you think these claims could be removed, or at least merged into the History section?

If you're willing, I'd appreciate help making these changes since I cannot update the page myself. I'm also happy to share my proposed text for the company's early history, if you're interested. Again, thanks for your initial review above and for your further consideration. Inkian Jason (talk) 16:25, 5 March 2020 (UTC)

I was brought here by your Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Telecommunications#Seeking_editor_assistance_for_Ciena_article and have taken this about as far as I am willing. I generally prefer to work on technical articles. ~Kvng (talk) 17:32, 5 March 2020 (UTC)

No problem whatsoever. I'll see if I can find another editor to assist. Thanks! Inkian Jason (talk) 17:42, 5 March 2020 (UTC)

History section

I'd like to focus on some of the issues with the current History section:

• Kevin Kimberlin invested in the company but is not a co-founder; the Wall Street Journal article currently used as an inline citation says, "Kevin Kimberlin, a New York financier who put up $100,000 in Ciena's first year, got 4.6 million shares in return." The current text is simply inaccurate.
• two-thirds of the second paragraph is inappropriately sourced: Ref #9 is sponsored by Ciena and Ref #10 is a press release hosted on the company's website
• the following sentence is unsourced: "Despite setbacks along the way, Ciena continued to grow over the next few years, by both introducing new products and by acquiring companies such as Lightera (optical switches) and Omnia (local access equipment)."
• the section's last paragraph has a "buzzword" tag and is sourced by Funding Universe, which I'm not sure is considered a reliable source: "In 2000, Ciena announced the MultiWave Metro optical transport solution, which allowed metropolitan area networks to deliver particular frequencies to individual customer premises. By June 2000, Ciena's stock had soared to $120 per share, giving it a market capitalization exceeding $30 billion. Sales of the company's new line of products prompted the investor optimism, though some analysts were beginning to wonder whether the U.S. fiber optic network had been overbuilt. The customer list continued to grow as it approached 50 names." Additionally, some of these details seem unnecessary.

For these reasons, I propose replacing the first part of the History section with an overview of Ciena's early history I've drafted here. I've worked to draft neutral text based on reputable secondary coverage, and Ciena has verified the accuracy of these claims. I should also note, there's a stray Recent Events section (which links "Recent" to Holocene), which should probably be removed, or at least the claims should be moved to the History section.

Can an editor please review the proposed text and update the article on my behalf? Thanks for your consideration. Inkian Jason (talk) 19:28, 5 March 2020 (UTC)

 Done. This falls outside my usual editing areas, but the changes seemed like an improvement and didn't seem overly promotional. (Actually they made it less promotional, because references to promotional material were removed.) WanderingWanda (talk) 04:32, 12 March 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for reviewing and updating the article. I'll be proposing some additional improvements soon. Inkian Jason (talk) 14:45, 12 March 2020 (UTC)

Revert request

Hello again. An editor recently updated this section to credit Kevin Kimberlin as a founder. Ciena has confirmed the inaccuracy of this claim, which is not supported by reliable sourcing. Additionally, these recent changes replace secondary coverage with primary sources, and add a Forbes article as a citation which does not even mention Kimberlin by name. (Any mentions of Kimberlin in sourcing I've found mention him being an initial investor but not a founder.) I propose reverting the changes made on April 25. @WanderingWanda: Would you be willing to do this on behalf of Ciena?

I will be posting another request to expand and update this article soon, but I'm hoping to address this first. Please let me know if you have any questions.

Thank you. Inkian Jason (talk) 14:26, 4 May 2020 (UTC)

@CNMall41: You helped with a similar revert on another article I've worked on. Would you mind reviewing this revert request as well? Inkian Jason (talk) 18:03, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

I don't see an issue with the Forbes reference as it is citing what is stated in the inline portion where it is used and has nothing to do with Kimberlin (in the Wikipedia page or the source). I can revert the founder information as it replaces good sources that are already there but let me know why the other should be removed again. --CNMall41 (talk) 18:13, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

@CNMall41: Unless I am overlooking, the Forbes article does not mention HydraLite. Inkian Jason (talk) 18:21, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

It supports the last part of the sentence about him staying until 1995. Maybe the request should be to remove the first part of the sentence since it most definitely mentions Ciena and his tenure. --CNMall41 (talk) 18:35, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

I agree. The source itself is not a problem, but the first part of the sentence should be removed. Inkian Jason (talk) 18:44, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

@CNMall41: Hi again! Just following up here, since a few days have passed. Thanks for reviewing this request. Inkian Jason (talk) 17:08, 11 May 2020 (UTC)

I work as a private contractor in the IT industry so I am not always on Wikipedia and often take days between edits. What is the actual request here?--CNMall41 (talk) 22:49, 11 May 2020 (UTC)

@CNMall41: I understand, and appreciate your assistance fixing this issue. I am seeking reversion of the edits made on April 25 (or restoration of this version of the article). The changes do not represent secondary coverage and make the text inaccurate. Thanks for your help. Inkian Jason (talk) 14:43, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

I responded above already about the bulk revert you requested then made another suggestion for you. You would need to request someone else make the bulk revert as I don't see it as completely inaccurate or unreliable sourcing. I see an inline sourcing issue with Forbes which you agreed about so not sure what else to do unless you have a specific request other than the bulk revert. --CNMall41 (talk) 06:14, 13 May 2020 (UTC)

@CNMall41: Sorry, I misunderstood your note above as asking for a recap of my overall request here. Above, you'd mentioned being ok with reverting the change that added the poorer quality sourcing and inaccurate founder information, and that sounds good to me. As well, you'd mentioned keeping the Forbes citation since it supported Huber staying at Ciena until 1995 and simply removing the first part of the sentence that's not supported, and I agree with that also. (The Forbes source had been included there previously to support the detail about Huber, the editor added the full citation details since they'd snipped them from the first paragraph.)

Based on that, I'm asking for:

• Reverting the change of citation in the introduction
• Reverting the changed wording and citations in the first paragraph of History
• Removing the new wording ("who changed HydraLite's name to Ciena Coporation" [sic]) added to the second paragraph of History

Would you be comfortable making those changes?

To help, here's the markup for what the updated version of the early History would look like with those changes we both agree on:

Extended content

Ciena was founded in 1992 by electrical engineer David Huber, who studied the commercialization of fiber-optic technology during his tenure at General Instrument (GI) starting in 1989. When GI was purchased in 1990, Huber was given temporary ownership of the patents to the technology and access to the company's laboratory in Philadelphia. He initially struggled to get companies to see value in applying fiber-optic technology to cable television, until Jon Bayless with Sevin Rosen Funds visited the laboratory for a demonstration in October 1993. Bayless offered funding immediately. Ciena would receive $40 million in venture capital financing, including $3.3 million from Sevin Rosen Funds. Other early investors in the company included Charles River Ventures, Japan Associated Finance Co., Star Venture, and Vanguard Venture Partners. Bayless also recruited physicist Patrick Nettles, a former colleague at the telecommunications company Optilink, to serve as Ciena's first CEO, and Lawrence P. Huang, another former colleague, to accept the sales chief role. Huber and Nettles began working from an office in Dallas in February 1994; Huber would remain with Ciena until 1995. References

Thanks again, Inkian Jason (talk) 15:33, 13 May 2020 (UTC)

Maybe I'm ignorant for not seeing it but I can't understand the specific requests. It all seems like generalities to me. When you say "Reverting the changed wording and citations in the first paragraph" I am unsure why that needs changed. I will either need to take some time to wrap my head around it or have you request through proper channels with a change request at COIN. --CNMall41 (talk) 06:49, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

@CNMall41: These recent changes are problematic for the following reasons:

Extended content

In the introduction, a New York Times article is replaced by Ciena's website In History: New text was added to say that the company was originally named HydraLite and that Kevin Kimberlin was a co-founder, and detailing the relationship between OpTelecom and HydraLite however this information is not accurate/not supported by existing or newly added sourcing The existing secondary citations were replaced by a Baltimore Sun article and an SEC filing that do not clearly support the additions of new text The Baltimore Sun article mentions HydraLite and GI, but does not establish HydraLite was the former name of Ciena and does not discuss Kevin Kimberlin at all The SEC filing mentions only that Kimberlin had provided some investment into Ciena (among other investors in the company) and does not describe him as a founder Specifically, the following phrases in red should be removed in favor of the original wording (shown above): Ciena, formerly HydraLite, was founded in 1992 by Dr. David R. Huber, Kevin Kimberlin of Spencer Trask & Co. and Optelecom, a company started by Gordon Gould, which built optical networking products. At Hydralite, Huber served as Chief Executive Officer, Optelecom provided "management assistance and production facilities" and Kimberlin "provided initial equity capital during the formation of the Company". Huber and Nettles, who changed HydraLite's name to Ciena Coporation, began working from an office in Dallas in February 1994; Huber would remain with Ciena until 1995.

For these reasons, I'm asking to have the April 25 changes reverted. Does this breakdown help? Inkian Jason (talk) 22:35, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

I hate to be a pest but I'm not inclined to do a bold revert for the same reason state previously. I don't see that all of the edits were problematic; however, you want everything reverted. The specific request above is basically pointing out why it should all be reverted but again, these are points about individual issues, not the entire edit. I think it would be better to have someone else review it if you don't mind. Especially since I am hit and miss with Wikipedia over the last few months and will be until the COVID problem subsides. --CNMall41 (talk) 06:43, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

I agree that some of the recent changes are questionable so I went ahead and reverted. However, I did then re-add the original name of the company, HydraLite, using Ciena.com as a source: https://www.ciena.com/insights/articles/25-Big-Milestones-from-our-25-Years-at-Ciena.html. Although secondary sources are preferred, WP:SELFSOURCE says Self-published or questionable sources may be used as sources of information about themselves provided it is not unduly self-serving etc. WanderingWanda (talk) 04:59, 25 May 2020 (UTC)

@WanderingWanda: Thank you for reviewing and reverting. You've been very helpful. I know you've just returned from a break but I've submitted another request to improve this article below. I know this is a major change, but I'd like to think this is a vast improvement over the existing text, and I hope you're willing to take a look. Thanks again! Inkian Jason (talk) 16:26, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

@WanderingWanda: I wanted to flag to you, the same editor has returned and made changes to the company's early history again. Inkian Jason (talk) 15:11, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

@Atvelonis: I've notified the editor who resolved this issue last time, but haven't received a reply. Are you willing to revert the most recent edit based on this discussion? I'm sorry to have to keep revisiting this issue. Thanks, Inkian Jason (talk) 19:55, 17 June 2020 (UTC)

I can look into it, but just to clarify, what exact wording do you want removed? The entire edit or just the part about Kimberlin? —Atvelonis (talk) 20:51, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

@Atvelonis: Thank you. I'm mostly looking to correct the Kimberlin part of the edit. I will let editors decide if using the Ciena.com source for the 1994 name changes by Nettles is considered an appropriate source. Inkian Jason (talk) 14:26, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

I've updated the article, but the finer details of the foundation of a telecommunication corporation are not ones I'm familiar with or have particular interest in, so I can only be of so much use in general. If this user re-adds the content I removed, I would suggest reaching out to them on their talk page. —Atvelonis (talk) 02:07, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

Thanks again for your help. Inkian Jason (talk) 15:09, 29 June 2020 (UTC)

2000s–present, acquisitions

Thanks again for helping to improve the Early history section. I'd like to focus on some of the issues with the current Market downturn and diversification and acquisition sections. The former section uses an annual report, an inaccessible Forbes article, and a press release as sources; the remainder of the section is unsourced. There are also two "buzzword" tags. The latter section has an incomplete and very poorly sourced table, displaying details in reverse chronological order and offering readers no context whatsoever. Ciena's website is used for inline citations twice here. I've worked to replace these two sections with accurate and neutral overviews of the company's more recent and acquisition histories. I've saved my work here and invite editors to review and copy over appropriately.

I propose renaming the Market downturn and diversification section to 2000s–present. The drafted text provides readers an overview of Ciena's history after the telecoms crash, including major milestones, leadership changes, and some revenue and employee figures. This section briefly mentions the series of acquisitions but saves detail for the proposed Acquisitions subsection. For this section, I've kept a simple table with company names and dates for quick reference, but otherwise details are presented in prose form, based on reputable secondary coverage. For each of the acquisitions, I tried to note the size and scope of the transaction, along with brief descriptions of the companies' services to demonstrate how Ciena was changed. I understand editors may choose to adjust or trim the level of detail here, and that's fine. I'm sharing a version I think is representative of sourcing, and I'd like to think the drafted content is a significant improvement over the current table.

Can an editor please review the proposed text and update the article on my behalf? @WanderingWanda: I know you've said this falls outside your usual topics of interest, but since you helped with the above History request, would you be willing to assist here as well? I'm happy to answer any questions or concerns.

Thanks again! Inkian Jason (talk) 16:23, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

How is it even possible to have a conflict of interest with as many companies as you do?

I've made an edit with your changes. I re-added the note about the company's old name—although the source is from Ciena themselves, it is just a timeline and fine to cite (not really self-serving). I also merged the "overview" section with the lede, as a lede is an overview. The earnings reports seem a little excessive for prose; you might want to consider a table, like on Tesla, Inc. —Atvelonis (talk) 16:54, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

Thank you so much for your help. The COI templates I add to each talk page note my employer and respective clients, who seek help making improvements to articles which often need inaccuracies fixed or other updates. Inkian Jason (talk) 17:21, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

@Atvelonis: I'm so sorry for the follow-up request, but I've been informed James Frodsham is now deceased. Do you mind removing "James Frodsham is Ciena's chief strategy officer" from the introduction? Inkian Jason (talk) 17:56, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

Sure, done. —Atvelonis (talk) 18:51, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

Thank you. Inkian Jason (talk) 19:59, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

Products

@Atvelonis: Thanks again for your help above. After working to update the history content and overview, I've drafted a brief summary of the company's products here. If this summary looks good to you, would you be willing to copy over the markup to the existing page appropriately? I believe this should be my final request for this page. Thanks again! Inkian Jason (talk) 16:06, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

I made the edit with some minor stylistic adjustments. —Atvelonis (talk) 03:42, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for your help! Inkian Jason (talk) 20:26, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

Company acquisition list

There are several semi-recent acquisitions that should be mentioned in the Acquisitions section and in the table list of company acquisitions. First is Don River which was acquired in 2018, then Centina which was acquired in 2019. I'm tied to the company so I don't want to add that myself. Anyone actively manage this page that would be willing to make those additions? Citations for those two acquisitions are easy to find.

     Bogowan (talk) 20:53, 5 April 2021 (UTC)

Ciena has recently (in 2021) announced the acquisition of Vyatta from AT&T. Anyone actively manage this page that would be willing to make this addition to the company acquisitions list? PS - Thanks to the community for adding the two previously requested acquisitions of Don River and Centina.

Bogowan (talk) 14:28, 9 December 2021 (UTC)