Talk:Cinque Ports in Ireland

"Petty limb of the [Cinque Ports of Ireland]" or "[Petty limb of the Cinque Ports] in Ireland"?[edit]

I couldn't Google any reference to the "cinque ports of Ireland" other than the 1462 Youghal charter and O'Connor's book. There seem to me to be 2 possibilities:

There was a group of "Cinque Ports of Ireland", modelled on the "Cinque Ports" of England, and with similar privileges in Ireland to those enjoyed by their English counterparts; but the Irish group and the English group were not linked. This is my interpretation of O'Connor's opinion.
There were a few "Cinque Ports", all in England, and some more 'petty limbs' of the Cinque Ports, some or all of which were in Ireland. This is my interpretation of Perrin's opinion.

The wording in the Calendar of Patent Rolls is ambiguous:

Edward the IV., by Charter dated 28th December, in the second year of his reign, granted to the Sovereign, Provosts, and Burgesses of the town ... that the town should be one of the petty limbs of the Cinque ports of Ireland.

Perrin cites the Calendar, but gives a different wording:

one of the Petylymmes of the Cinque Ports in Ireland

The use of the archaic spelling, rather than the standardised spelling of the Calendar, suggests a direct quote from the Roll itself.

British Borough Charters 1307-1660 cites two sources for the 1462 charter: Liber Munerum 8 and Municipal Corporation Commissioners, Reports of Ireland p.105

jnestorius^(talk) 09:37, 15 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Magna Carta Hiberniae[edit]

The Magna Carta Hiberniae (which was purportedly issued in 1216 although not attested until the early thirteenth century) was based on the 1216 version of the English Magna Carta, with some English names replaced with Irish ones (e.g. London→Dublin, England→Ireland). In particular, the reference to the Barons of the Cinque Ports was omitted.^[1] Which proves very little: only that the Irish Cinque Ports, if they ever existed, were not as salient in 1216 as the English ones at that date. jnestorius^(talk) 12:09, 18 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Statutes of the Realm. Vol. 1. 1963 [1810]. p. 15 fn.12. ; cited in Richardson, H. G. (March 1942). "Historical Revisions 5 : Magna Carta Hibernia". Irish Historical Studies. 3 (9). Cambridge University Press: 31–33 : 32. JSTOR 30005992.

Country Life[edit]

I doubt this article sheds light on the topic; Google snippet suggests it starts at the Desmond Rebellions. Still, it might be worth a scan on the off-chance:

Beharrell, Christopher H. (21 July 1977). "Reprieve for an Irish Cinque Port: Youghal, Co. Cork – II". Country Life. 162 (4177): 180–182.

jnestorius^(talk) 15:39, 14 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

[1] Statutes of the Realm. Vol. 1. 1963 [1810]. p. 15 fn.12. ; cited in Richardson, H. G. (March 1942). "Historical Revisions 5 : Magna Carta Hibernia". Irish Historical Studies. 3 (9). Cambridge University Press: 31–33 : 32. JSTOR 30005992.

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