Talk:Cloud9 League of Legends

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Did you know nomination[edit]

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Kingsif (talk) 20:41, 26 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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  • ... that the Cloud9 League of Legends division won back-to-back League of Legends Championship Series titles in their first two seasons of existence? Source: "Cloud9 won back-to-back LCS titles in their first two years of existence by winning the 2013 NA LCS Summer Split and 2014 NA LCS Spring Split." (From intro, so not direct citation for this quote. [1])
    • ALT1:... that the Cloud9 League of Legends division finished the 2020 LCS Spring Split with a 92.9% win-loss percentage, breaking their previous LCS record of 90.9% from 2013? Source: "With an overall 26–2 game win-loss record, including playoffs, for the split, Cloud9 set a LCS record for the highest winning percentage ever in a single split by a North American team at 92.9%, breaking their previous record of 90.9% from the 2013 Summer Split." (From intro, so not direct citation for this quote. [2])
    • ALT2:... that Jack Etienne purchased the Cloud9 League of Legends division for less than $20,000? Source: "The team then changed hands again, as after only 12 days after their qualification, former Team SoloMid manager Jack Etienne bought out the contracts of the players for less than $20,000, officially creating the Cloud9 organization" [3])

Created by Pbrks (talk). Self-nominated at 23:00, 30 March 2021 (UTC).[reply]

  • The article is long enough and new enough with no copyright violations. A QPQ has been completed. Any of the hooks can be used. Good luck on the GA nomination. SL93 (talk) 19:44, 22 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

2020 season[edit]

Apology is this is the wrong way to bring this up, I talked with a friend who's a Wikipedia editor. Pbrks, you removed some of my changes. But the tone is still really weirdly blase about the 2020 season. I'm not saying this as some kind of super-hater of Cloud9, but it reads like it was written by a Cloud9 fanboy. The 2020 season was famous due to the epic collapse that happened, not the third LCS title, and you can find plenty of comments on the Internet to that effect. It should just say so! See 2018–19 Tampa Bay Lightning season for something similar. That article does not gloss over the Lightning dropping out in the first round of playoffs despite being heavy favorites. It's also worth mentioning the quirk of rules that made the good Spring split performance irrelevant to World qualification. YupNope (talk) 18:18, 10 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@YupNope: Hi, yes this is an appropriate place to bring this up. For what it's worth, I have never seen a Cloud9 match (nor have I watched any professional League of Legends nor have I ever played it), so I have no bias towards Cloud9 or any LoL team. I have written the article solely based off of what I have read from reliable sources. I agree that, upon reading it again, the way I had phrased it before made it sound a bit biased, and I believe that it now is written in a more neutral point of view (NPOV). I'm going to bullet point to keep thoughts organized:
  • Unfortunately, "comments on the internet" doesn't really hold up on Wikipedia, and I haven't seen much, if any, reliably-sourced coverage about their 2020 Summer season being an "epic collapse." Check out video game reliable sources and video game reliable sources custom Google search. A search of "2020 Cloud9 LCS" does not bring up anything about their "epic collapse" and does bring up a lot of their 2020 Spring achievements, which is more evidence to support that the LCS title was a more important event in the team's history.
  • I don't consider the 2018–19 Tampa Bay Lightning season to be a very well-written article. It's basically a timeline/list.
  • The article does state that they did not qualify for Worlds in a NPOV: The early playoff exit also eliminated Cloud9's ability to qualify for the 2020 World Championship, marking the first time in the organization's history that they would not attend the World Championship, but I see no reason to add why they did not qualify due to LCS changes, as long it is short and reliably sourced.
I'm not saying that this article can't be improved, but I disagree with your stance on this. Pbrks (talk) 19:03, 10 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
As a side-note, how is finishing second in the regular season and missing Worlds due to (strange) league changes considered an epic collapse? Pbrks (talk) 19:09, 10 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Huh, so you don't watch LoL? Interesting. Well, during the first 2/3 of the 2020 season, Cloud9 was hyped up as the undisputed best team in North America, one of the best in the world, capable of making a deep Worlds run, maybe even to the finals. That's where you're seeing all those sources about the LCS title from. Then they went to a worse-than-50/50 record in the back half of summer split and crashed out of playoffs like a mediocre North America team. It was weird! Basically a reverse Cinderella story where the overdog transforms from a princess back to a servant girl. They technically finished second, yes, but their performance in July-August was worse than a second place team, they did not look good. I'd think that should be made clear in the article. Also the coronavirus meant that there was massive cutbacks in staff at places like ESPN, so it wouldn't shock me if the less coverage you see about the collapse part is related to that. Anyway the "collapse" really is the relevant thing to mention, just like inspiring underdog stories. YupNope (talk) 20:05, 10 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@YupNope: I see. I've expanded the 2020 info, making it clear that there was a significant drop off from the first half to the second half of the regular season and clarified that there were changes to the 2020 Worlds qualification rules. I'll look into the possibility of adding more later, and you are welcome to as well, as long as we keep it neutral and don't delve into too much detail. Pbrks (talk) 00:06, 11 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Cloud9 League of Legends vs Cloud9 (League of Legends)[edit]

The name Cloud9 League of Legends follows other naming standards on Wikipedia with organizations that carry many divisions in other sports. For example, the set of pages:

For this reason, I think any divisions of esports organizations with their own pages should follow that same standard. Pbrks (talk) 21:01, 12 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Pbrks, unless the team itself is known as Cloud9 League of Legends (in the full-name proper noun sense), we should either title the article as Cloud9 (League of Legends) or Cloud9 League of Legends team. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 21:51, 12 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Dissident93: I disagree that this must be the criteria. There are many organization divisions that are titled this way, without it being a proper noun. For example: Tennessee Volunteers football, Georgia Bulldogs swimming and diving, Baylor Bears tennis. Of course, these are all college sports teams, but they functions very similarly to esports organizations. Pbrks (talk) 23:32, 12 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Pbrks, those work because those are activities and not a proper noun/product. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 19:37, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Dissident93 I believe it is the case that they are known as Cloud9 League of Legends. See the first sentence of their description here. The LoL division does operate as its own business entity, so it seems that it is their proper name. Pbrks (talk) 22:48, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Pbrks, so it seems. However, I'd still like for others to comment on this, so I'll alert WT:VG. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 00:30, 14 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
From a quick Google search, many sources I found ([4][5][6]) refer to the team as "Cloud9's League of Legends team" or just "Cloud9" in cases where the article is clearly talking about LoL. However, the organization refers to itself as Cloud9 League of Legends (e.g. website or YouTube channel). Unless there's some kind of precedent for rejecting a organization's own disambiguatory name, I'm leaning towards Cloud9 League of Legends, though it is not used in the media. Cloud9 League of Legends team would also be a good compromise if the former is deemed too confusing. Yeeno (talk) 🍁 03:23, 14 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review[edit]

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Reviewing
This review is transcluded from Talk:Cloud9 League of Legends/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Tayi Arajakate (talk · contribs) 05:14, 5 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • Hello Pbrks, I'll be taking up the review for this article and will be presenting it in some time. I hope my feedback will be helpful to you. Tayi Arajakate Talk 05:14, 5 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Pbrks, I have completed the review and the article almost meets the good article criteria. There are some minor issues with it which needs to be resolved before I can promote it. Good work in general, by the way. Tayi Arajakate Talk 13:40, 6 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Pbrks, I am going to promote this since the issues are resolved now. Regarding the chart, I meant incorporating the "Mid-Season Showdown" into it as it is being referred to as their fourth title in the article, the later Championship could just show the combined records of that year. But that's really up to you. Tayi Arajakate Talk 05:49, 7 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]


Comments[edit]

  • The line, "[T]he League of Legends division was the first division in Cloud9's history" present in the lead is absent in the body of the article. Corresponding text should be added at the end of the second paragraph of History and will need a citation.
    • This follows from the final sentence under "History": The team then changed hands again, as after only 12 days after their qualification, former Team SoloMid manager Jack Etienne bought out the contracts of the players for less than $20,000, officially creating the Cloud9 organization. I have rephrased it to more accurately reflect this.
  • The team Cloud9 Academy is also not mentioned in the body.
    • Although there are passing mentions of their academy team in the body, it never explicitly states this -- removed.
  • The subheading "[T]hird LCS title and first Worlds absence" needs a bit of rephrasing.
    • Changed to Third LCS title and first World Championship absence. I cannot think of a more succinct way of phrasing this. It was certainly two very important events in the division's history, so I believe they should both be included somehow.
  • The season-by-season records needs to be updated for 2021. The format change can be incorporated into the chart.
    • Updated. What do you mean by incorporating the format change? The splits were no longer mutually exclusive, which is depicted by the year not being split into two rows.
  • History doesn't include their performance in the 2021 Mid-Season Invitational.
    • Added.

Assessment[edit]

  1. Comprehension: The comprehension is good.
    2. Pass Pass
    Criteria Notes Result
    (a) (prose) The prose is clear and concise. Pass Pass
    (b) (MoS) The article follows the manual of style. Pass Pass
  2. Verifiability: Minor issue exists. (Resolved)
    3. Pass Pass
    Criteria Notes Result
    (a) (references) The article has a list of references and all lines in the body have in-line citations. Pass Pass
    (b) (citations to reliable sources) Sources used appear to be reliable. Pass Pass
    (c) (original research) Minor issues exist with respect to the lead. (Resolved) Pass Pass
    (d) (copyvio and plagiarism) No copyright violations found. Pass Pass
  3. Comprehensiveness: Minor issue exists. (Resolved)
    4. Pass Pass
    Criteria Notes Result
    (a) (major aspects) The article needs a recent update. (Resolved) Pass Pass
    (b) (focused) The article is focused and does not deviate from the subject. Pass Pass
  4. Neutrality: The article is neutal.
    5. Pass Pass
    Notes Result
    The article is complaint with the policy on neutral point of view. Pass Pass
  5. Stability: The article is stable.
    6. Pass Pass
    Notes Result
    No recent content disputes, edit warring or major changes. Pass Pass
  6. Illustration: The article is well illustrated.
    7. Pass Pass
    Criteria Notes Result
    (a) (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales) Images are tagged with their appropriate copyright statuses. Pass Pass
    (b) (appropriate use with suitable captions) Use and captions are appropiate. Pass Pass
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