Talk:Contemporary Jewish religious music

Rewording

The following lines: "Jewish boys choirs became popular in 1970s. Among the most notable of these groups are Pirchei London, the Toronto Boys Choir and the Yeshiva Boys Choir."

It seems to me that it implies that these groups have been around since the 1970's. If it is just my misunderstanding, then please let me know. Otherwise I will change it in a week. Leppi (talk) 08:59, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Article re-write

I'd like to extend a thank you to Jbreitzer for rewriting this article and giving it a structure that can teach people something. My only thought is that the Orthodox music figures need a few more sources and fleshing out of their style. Does anyone have sources clearly describing the "yeshivish" styles of music? Joe407 (talk) 04:37, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Important figures

Rather than begin a massive edit war, I would like us to try and set guidelines for the "Important Figures" section. If everyone adds who they think is important, we wil end up with a who's who of musicians. I've seen this problem in other articles with lists of notable alumni and such.

I would like to hear votes either for removing this section or for guidelines for inclusion. Thanks, Joe407 (talk) 17:31, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

I've replied to Joe on his talk page. I don't think a vote is relevant, there are clear guidelines for referencing and WP:notability. Jimfbleak - talk to me? 17:50, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Also, should this article be moved to Contemporary Jewish religious music in North America - it doesn't seem to mention anywhere else much? Jimfbleak - talk to me? 17:57, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Regarding North America, the artists mentioned here are not limited by geography but rather by audience. The largest group of Reform Jews is in the USA. Many of the references in the article are about the Reform Jewish music world. The Orthodox Jewish world has a large camp in the USA and a large camp in Israel. The article at the moment is biased toward the Reform and Conservative music world. Once we can balance the article from that perspective, the geopolitical bias should correct itself. Joe407 (talk) 20:22, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

We have other problems in this section--a lack of citations. Eventually, I imagine the section about the people could be merged into a section about the history of contemporary Jewish religious music, or condensed to a list. At this point, the section is short enough that WP policy about notability may be good enough for us. The undue weight given to Reform and Conservative Judaism can be corrected by adding more info about Orthodox Jewish music, but the subject of the article is important enough that IMO it shouldn't be split or name-changed right now. --AFriedman (talk) 05:37, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

Anne, You are quite correct. The challange with citations is that on this topic not much has been written. The subject covers the past 50 years and hasn't gotten academic treatment. I'm wary of chopping huge chunks from the current text because my own (extensive) knowledge of the topic says that a good amount of the OR is correct.  :( If you can hunt down (even a few) sources about the musical style it would be great. Source what ever you can and add whatever you can. As the sourced stuff grows we'll be able to chop the OR. Joe407 (talk) 06:33, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

I was asked to comment here, and although I have no real experience editing music-related articles, I would say that a "Notable figures" section should be avoided, as defining notability is either very difficult or impossible, and such a section would be largely WP:Original Research or mere opinion. пﮟოьεԻ 57 09:13, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

I don't have that much time to hunt down sources for this article, but I'm sure there's information about these people's influence in biographical pages about them. --AFriedman (talk) 21:20, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

contravercy section

Should there be a section here on the recent backlash of the Haredi community against "outside" influence on traditional Jewish music? Matzav article and BBC article. Joe407 (talk) 22:41, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Reform and conservative artists

Howdy,

Artists listed here should be a sample of representative artists for a genera, not a WP:LINKSPAM. As such,

Other performers in the reform music movement include David Appelman, Merri Lovinger Arian, Ilana Axel, Achi Ben Shalom, David Berger, Stacy Beyer, Theodore Bikel, Raffi Bilek, Cantor Rosalie Boxt, Amy Bug, Rick Calvert, Michelle Citrin, Susan Colin, Karen Daniel, Arnie Davidson, Andrew Denin, Batya Diamond, Cantor Lisa Doob, Cantor Ellen Dreskin, Steve Dropkin, Marge Eiseman, Leah Fine, Jules Frankel, Dan Freedlander, Amy Fried, Debbie Friedman, Tracy Friend, Cantor Gaston, Judy Caplan Ginsburgh, Sam Glaser, Kathy Gohr, Rabbi Shefa Gold, Beth Greenapple, Beth Hamon, Robyn Helzner, Sue Horowitz, Elana Jagoda, Dan Jurkowitz, Roy Kamin, Rabbi Larry Karol, Rabbi Neal Katz, Noam Katz, Steve Klaper, Jeff Klepper, Shira Kline, Janine Kobrinsky, Eric Komar, Scott Leader, Cantor Allen Leider, Carol Boyd Leon, Ira Levin, Ross M. Levy, Gordon Lustig, Rick Lupert, Marvelous Toy aka Marc Rossio, Steve Meltzer, Merkavah, Cindy Michelassi, Milot Ha'Nefesh, Doug Mishkin, Chuck Mitchell, Cantor Alberto Mizrahi, Jill Moskowitz, Greg Siegle and Julie Newman, Michael Hunter Ochs, Devora Olitzky, Janet Pape, Rahel, Jay Rapoport and Dangerous Kid, Fred Ross-Perry, Sababa, Sally and the Daffodils, Linda Salvay, Samaritan Singers Ensembles, Steve Schuster, Rebecca Schwartz, Ros Schwartz, Robin Selinger, Elaine Serling, Susan Shane-Linder, Shir Harmony, Shirona, Shir Synergy, Judith Silver, Eric Sirota, Donna Spencer, Ross Wolman and Natalie Young..

is out of line. For now I'm pulling it from the article and leaving it here. Can we come up with a few representative artists to put here? Thanks, Joe407 (talk) 04:18, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Hi,

I added all of those names because they were on the reference that I used. I was am new to this and thought it was imperative to cite a source for reference. However, as to my opinion, I think that several important reform artists that were not included are Julie SIlver, Beth Schafer, Vocolot, Sue Horowitz, Sam Glaser, and Noam Katz. Again, this is only my personal opinon and reasonable people could certainly disagree as to whom should and should not be included.

Best of Luck,

Rwh1230 (talk) 00:56, 7 July 2010 (UTC) (Moved from User talk:Joe407)

Rwh1230, If you feel that the artists you mention are representative and should be in the article than by all means put them in. If you have a source for their status as such - even better!! Thanks for the help. Joe407 (talk) 03:31, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Would the following be appropriate? Should links to the individual's web pages be included or excluded? Sam Glaser, Sue Horowitz, Noam Katz, Beth Schafer, Julie Silver, Peri Smilow and others have contributed significantly to modern reform Jewish music and have been included in the biennial music compilation produced by the Union for Reform Judaism (ref urj.org). Rwh1230 (talk) 01:39, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

That's excellent! You give a sampeling of notable artists and demonstrate why they are notable. AND you have a reference! Well done. I would not include external links (as per WP:EL)to web pages but if any of them have WP articles then their names should be wiki-linked to that. Joe407 (talk) 04:27, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

References

Suggestions for new articles

Many of the composers here are notable but don't have WP articles. e.g. anybody have definitive info on David Burger? -- Vonfraginoff (talk) 09:29, 8 February 2018 (UTC)

Also, we're going to want to fill in Israel Goldfarb (shalom Aleichem) and Moshe Nathanson (bentching), two key composers of the modern liturgy -- Vonfraginoff (talk) 09:29, 8 February 2018 (UTC)