Talk:Cowboy Bebop/Archive 2

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Archive 1

Archive 2

Upcoming Announced Cowboy Bebop movie?

Its been a while, but I distinctly remember reading in some anime magazine that there was a new Cowboy Bebop movie in planning which mostly focused on Spike and Faye in some adventure together. I've Googled, but found nothing. Anyone else remember this? No, it was not Cowboy Bebop: The Movie, the article in the magazine came long after that movie was released. Surely I'm not the only one on the whole internet to remembe this? 65.81.8.122 00:37, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Pirated DVD cover lookalike on main page

It's apparent to me that the DVD cover used on the main page is identical to a pirated version from a company called FX. This may encourage readers to buy the pirated version instead of Bandai's official releases. I suggest a different image to avoid confusion, possibly one from one of the six DVDs in the legitimate edition. Also, you can't really tell from the image, but the legitimate edition is rather bulky; it contains six normal DVD cases stacked back-to-back. The pirated edition is a fold-out case, and is much slimmer.
Legitimate edition:
http://i1.ebayimg.com/06/i/000/a8/78/8735_1.JPG
Pirated edition:
http://i5.ebayimg.com/02/i/000/98/fa/19c7_1.JPG
Faucett 17:23, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Erm, could you fix that Bandai Entertainment link?SuperGerbil 03:05, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Bandai link dead. replaced with ebay link. Faucett 17:58, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

isn't there also an edition with 3 session DVDs (eps 1-26) and 1 movie DVD that's not pirated? -11 Nov 2007 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.22.77.134 (talk) 14:50, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

There is no legitimate 3 disc edition. There was a collection with only a few episodes called the Best Sessions or something like that, but it is not the image that is shown on the page. Bandai released a remix version that is still 6 discs and has a different. The version shown currently is an illegal bootleg and really should not be on the page as was stated above. It could very easily mislead people in to believing that the "perfect sessions" are legitimate when they are not. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.189.253.222 (talk) 03:29, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Reception: Japan

Ok, so I found a source that shows that only 12 episodes of the series were released in the initial Japanese release, and then the whole series was released on the WOWWOW network after it switched. I can't find sources to back the speculation that Eva was the reason that the show almost never made it to air, that the last episode was delivered the day it was meant to air, and that there were intentional problems with the time slot. Can anyone else prove this? Hewinsj 05:50, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Should it be noted that...

Cowboy Bebop has mainly melancholy themes? I mean, I can't think of a single episode with a happy ending. just bittersweet and tragic ones...shouldn't that be noted? C. Pineda (クリス) 05:27, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

I do not find the show to be melancholy beyond expectation. It's endings are not so strange as to warrant particular notice. Perhaps it's unique to someone that only watches media with happy endings. But I think there is plenty of work out there with endings of similar tone to this show. I'm afraid the tone of the endings is just not unusual enough. ask123 14:59, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Not this again

Animax LA didn't air this series in Latin America, it was Locomotion. For next time, for God's sake, to make Wikipedia a better site, RESEARCH MORE CAREFULLY BEFORE ADDING STUPIDITIES. Twicemost 05:55, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Please see Wikipedia's no personal attacks policy. Comment on content, not on contributors. Personal attacks damage the community and deter users. Note that continued personal attacks will lead to blocks for disruption. Please stay cool and keep this in mind while editing. Thank you. Coldmachine^Talk 07:58, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

I apologize for my anger, it's just that this mix of mistake and confussion is repeated in most anime articles. My complain is because I want this encyclopedia to be more trusty. It is very common to find "it was broadcast on Animax across South Asia, Southeast Asia, East Asia, Latin America and other regions" in the articles about anime series. The problem is that some series aren't shown by the same channel in ALL the regions in the planet, and that's the thing I wanted to communicate in the talks of Witch Hunter Robin, Tsubasa Chronicle, Monkey Typhoon and now in here. Look, about WHR and Tsubasa, these series are not even licensed in Latin America, Monkey Typhoon was broadcast on Cartoon Network in LA and Cowboy Bebop was shown only in Locomotion for that region, not in Animax, at least not yet. I will calm down, but only if you tell the one who writes that repetitive sentence that not all the series aired in Animax Asia will be broadcast too in Animax Latin America. Again, i'm sorry for my anger, it's that I know many people that dislike Wikipedia, precisely because of its non perfect information, and I wish with my heart to fiz that (but I can't alone!) Twicemost 00:49, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Actually, any information regarding non-Japanese and non-English broadcasts should not be included on the English Wikipedia per WP:MOS-AM, so it shouldn't have been included in the first place. ANN is a notable source, so it is used as a verifiable reference in several anime articles on the project, but if you see any mistake and if you have evidence or sources to support your point: please feel free to correct it yourself or put it up for discussion on the talk page in a polite and open manner. Thank you. ···巌流^{? · talk to ganryuu} 07:38, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

I didn't propose to include other-language information, as you might think, I ONLY said that the infobox is wrong because there are LA flags among the list of countries where Animax aired the series; it is that, nothing more, nothing less. I was proposing a correction, not an addition on information; that's the same purpose of my post in this talk when I found that suspicious piece of information. I know that other-language broadcast info is unwelcome, I already made everyone know it here and here. So, please, read more carefully the posts of someone else before judging the intentions of that user (I now see the kind of person you are, I'm terribly sorry). Twicemost (talk) 04:29, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

woolong

"After the advent of space travel, the bounty system of the Old West was reinstated by the government to help curb growing crime levels. Bounty hunters are encouraged to capture criminals and return them (alive and relatively unharmed) to the authorities for monetary rewards, in part through a regular television broadcast of "Big Shots", a bounty-hunter news program featuring a heavily-accented Mexican and a perky blonde with mostly-exposed breasts. These bounty hunters are now referred to as "Cowboys" in slang. In addition, ruthless crime syndicates have large influence in the Solar System, indulging in such fields as bribery, murder, extortion, drug dealing, money laundering and other criminal offenses. The Woolong is the universal currency, and paper money is less common since more people carry convenient money cards and rely on digital transfers."

The link on "woolong" redirects back to the same page you just clicked it from Cowboy Bebop..I have no idea wtf a "woolong" is. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.205.91.3 (talk) 17:01, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

I got rid of the link. Perhaps the woolong information and the Red Eye information from the List of Cowboy Bebop characters article could be combined into some sort of "Objects in Cowboy Bebop" article or something like that? Apollo Gilgamesh (talk) 00:18, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

that would be rite also could u tell wat citations are needed so i can search for themBinarymoron (talk) 16:04, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Uh, I could be wrong, but isn't the Woolong an actual, this-universe this-era currency? Without feeling up to hunting for it, it's Taiwanese/Vietnamese/Philipino... one of them, can't remember which. Pretty sure it's real however. Just another example of the future cultural diversity and re-balancing of cultural influence in the wider solar system (one can only assume from the cultures seen that the north atlantic nations took something of a battering by the initial lunar incident; or at least didn't take as well to commercialised space travel as the east ... or maybe it's just an effect of where the series was made!) 82.46.180.56 (talk) 21:37, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Update: did a bit of brief but intelligent searching - at a guess, it's based on the Korean "Won" (which also has the ₩ symbol) ... but that's as far as the trail goes. No modern-day real world currency called "woolong", however, though there's a slight match between the two words (if you take out the 'olo' and the 'g' ;) 82.46.180.56 (talk) 21:44, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

citation for main page

http://www.arts.auckland.ac.nz/FileGet.cfm?ID=6F757F03-C96B-4465-ADB7-5901177BA5CE.

http://www.futureblues.com/guide.html

http://www.animedream.com/music/bebop-askdna/

here is the link for a citation for western music influence and kung fu influence on cowboy bebopBinarymoron (talk) 16:23, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Catchphrase

What's the deal with the phrase "The work which will become a new genre itself will be called...Cowboy Bebop."? Is there any sort of background to this (did Watanabe have aspirations?)? Are there any sources which bring this up? Oc t ane ^{[improve me]} 05.03.08 0021 (UTC)

The phrase comes from Watanabe's sales pitch to Sunrise. In an interview with Wizard: Anime Invasion, he explains a graphic designer used it for a commercial bump (without Watanabe's permission) and it sort of stuck because Watanabe liked the art.--Nohansen (talk) 03:04, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Regarding a Section Deleted on November 14, 2008

I deleted the section on the "ban" of Cowboy Bebop in Iran. That film is not any more "banned" in Iran than any other unauthorized film. The legal process required for producing domestic films and releasing foreign ones in Iran leaves no place for bans.

All media is unauthorized and therefore "banned" unless it becomes authorized by going through the legal process. Put briefly the media approval process in Iran works not on the basis of "innocent until proven" but on that of "guilty until proven."

Most of the media content released worldwide never goes through the process and is therefore "banned" in Iran but that, of course, doesn't mean it cannot be accessed by the Iranian people.

Just in case: IMDb is wrong about a ban on Cowboy Bebop in Iran, and that mistake has leaked into Wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.133.203.247 (talk) 14:50, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

BANG!

'Bang!' is actually a relatively common thing in Anime. It was also said as the final line in Gantz, and was also used in Trigun a number of times. It can also been seen in the Live Action Death Note movie, as well as a ton of other places I can't even remember. Considering Cowboy Bebop originally aired on Adult Swim, I'm not entirely sure if it was a DIRECT 'influence' on Pop Culture even though Steve Blum voiced Tom and also voiced Spike. I think it's just a funny coincidence honestly.

As a side-note, can anyone here actually EXPLAIN 'Bang!' to me and what that's supposed to symbolize/represent/mean? --136.142.46.33 (talk) 20:46, 30 September 2008 (UTC) It's merely the noise a gun makes :/ that's the best I can explain it. -Robobvious 96.233.64.228 (talk) 20:39, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Aside from being a gun noise, it is used to reference Spike's conversation with the "kid" at the end of Sympathy for the Devil, who asks him if Spike understands what it means to want to die, or to be relieved by death (I don't recall his exact phrasing). Spike responded by saying "Yeah, I understand... As if," then tossed the kid's harmonica in the air and shot it with his finger. When Spike, at the end of the series, shoots at the syndicate goons with his finger, he is apparently recalling this conversation, implying that he now understands what it means to find relief in one's death. AsbestosBill (talk) 21:07, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

I think the last statement is a little bit of a stretch. "Bang" isn't unique to Cowboy Bebop. Trigun came out before Cowboy Bebop and had Vash pointing his finger at the suns and saying "Bang bang." That was an expression of triumph, he won the day. Same with Spike in Cowboy Bebop - in both instances he had defeated an enemy, Wen and Vicious. "Bang." --MrsSpooky 01:00, 5 September 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by MrsSpooky (talk • contribs)

You would have to supply a lot more research to convince me that shooting with one's finger has a /specific/ meaning or connotation that can be safely inferred in any context. Spike's encounter with Wen was not a battle that he won; it was an execution—part high-plains justice, part mercy killing. There wasn't even a bounty on his head. It doesn't fit with his character or with the tone of the episode for him to gloat about it. Vicious was an enemy he defeated, but that was an old debt and Vicious used to be his friend and comrade. Looking at the big picture, with a series so short, there's no way they could reuse the gesture so overtly without it being intentional. Not in two of the serious episodes. AsbestosBill (talk) 02:12, 7 September 2011 (UTC)

I agree, "[hard to be convinced that] shooting with one's finger has a /specific/ meaning or connotation that can be safely inferred in any context." Pretty much all we can do is guess. It may mean different things to different people, and that's kind of what this looks like here. It sounds like you are inferring something from Spike's "Bang" at the end of Sympathy for the Devil that I don't get (that is, I'm reading that differently). In both cases here, Spike won the day (whether it was executing Wen or killing Vicious). It looked like defiance and triumph to me. *shrug* It may look like something else to another. MrsSpooky 15:32, 7 September 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by MrsSpooky (talk • contribs)

"See also"

"See also"... "List of Cowboy Bebop voice actors"... And it's a red link. That's just stupid. Whoever did that should have actually made the list of voice actors first... "See also: Nothing!" ... worse than trivia sections...--Zantetsken (talk) 04:28, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

If you had bothered to click the red link you would see that the page used to exist, but has since been deleted. Postmodern Beatnik (talk) 16:03, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

information vs spoilerage

the paragraph outlining Ein's character makes some allusions to his enhanced intelligence and abilities, but misses the more telling parts e.g. his demonstrated hacking ability (when Ed put the cyberspace goggles on him and was in awe of how fast he navigated the 'net and broke codes), somewhat human and resigned reactions to situations, etc. Not a normal doggie :) ... but then has it been missed on purpose to avoid spoilers? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.46.180.56 (talk) 21:40, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

That information was originally present in two places, the main page and the list of characters page. Since these examples were redundant, and this article was already cited for having excessive plot detail, specific examples were removed from the main article and left in the list of characters page. The intention of the characters section in this article is to be a summary of the characters without getting mired in a redundant retelling of plot. It gives the reader the essential information so that they know who the character is without bloating the section with "this one time he did X, and in the next episode he did Y" which they can see if they click through to the "list of characters" page. Hewinsj (talk) 02:59, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

trivia

episode 22 did not air in the original two runs in the USA on Cartoon Network. Not sure how to reference this, the particular episode description was never listed by tv guide, as if it didn't exist. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.181.145.11 (talk) 06:44, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

You could try checking Anime News Network. I think I remember them talking about the episodes that were cut around the time that they were supposed to air. This wouldn't be trivia though, it could probably fit under reception or criticism. Hewinsj (talk) 00:57, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Here's a short ANN article about how the episodes were removed as a response to 9-11, and pulled from the programming list because the network felt they were inappropriate at the time. Hewinsj (talk) 16:33, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Why is a bootleg dvd box set used as the main image?

The image used is from the "Perfect Sessions" which is not a legal box set. http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51VANY80R6L._SS500_.jpg There was never such a box set released by Bandai. They released a standard box set which has long been out of print, Remix box set and a "Best Sessions" which had selected episodes. This current image is of a bootleg version that is available on Amazon and other internet stores and not any official box or the Best sessions. The following images are of official releases. http://www.rightstuf.com/images/large_images/av1297.jpg http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/513AzGXZX2L._SL500_AA240_.jpg 72.189.253.222 (talk) 01:34, 20 August 2008 (UTC)Lacks

Your right, that image was used as the cover of a bootleg collection but it was also the cover art for the official box set released by Bandai in 2001. It included each of the original six DVDs packed in the original cases and a copy of the first Soundtrack inside a box with a flip-top lid. This image specifically is probably a display image used by retailers (Amazon, Right Stuf, Bestbuy) that was swiped by the bootleggers that you mention. Hewinsj (talk) 02:31, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

That said, I found a pic that somebody posted of a side shot of the official box set Hewinsj (talk) 02:35, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Talking about that, wouldn't it be cool if there was a section describing the different releases there have been? That could help people understand what to expect from each compilation, and spot potentially bootleg versions.--71.112.18.241 (talk) 10:30, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

That's not a bad idea. I don't have too much time right now, but I'll try to put something together when I can. If someone else wants to work on it though feel free. Hewinsj (talk) 13:20, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

And it's been added. I used info from the Anime News Network to detail the 3 DVD releases in chronological order. I also made a small table to collect details about the first DVD release. I didn't go much further because it was getting longer then the text that accompanied it. If I have time I'll come back later to see if I can find a way to add more columns for the "Remix" release since there are 6 volumes of both that and the original release. Hewinsj (talk) 15:52, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

why is spike the only one with an individual pic

can't we add some of faye jet ed? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Radicaledwardfan (talk • contribs) 18:27, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

If your talking about the one on the character page it's probably because no one's deleted it yet. Single images for characters like that (while good in some people's opinion because it illustrates the character) are generally frowned upon because it gets close to copyright infringement. It's easier to get away with a single picture that can cover a whole group of characters like the one on the main article that shows the whole crew.

That said, you can post an image if you need a visual example of something that your writing about that's outside the plot or a need to show what a character looks like. Hewinsj (talk) 05:49, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Missing Poster

The missing Poster image can be found here: http://journal.sarahcada.com/uploaded_images/cowboy-bebop-754433.jpg I have no idea how to upload it to Wikimedia, sorry. (81.173.147.0 (talk) 23:39, 18 November 2008 (UTC))

Plot is not BG info

The plot section is detailing background informations and not the plot of the show. It is as it would be about the setting of the show and not about the show. The gate incident may be important for the setting, but it is only mentioned in some episodes. The plot section should detail a condensed version of the story of the episodes. 81.182.237.214 (talk) 07:59, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

You got that right. From the histories, it looks like this stuff was once in a "Setting" section or the like, but its uncited, and frankly, not a very notable part of this world-class series. I'm pasting the stuff I cut out below, but don't recommend its return.

In the year 2021 AD, the first "Astral Gate" is built in orbit around the Moon; a hyperspace gateway meant to expedite space colonization by making travel between planets a matter of days instead of months or years. This gate, due to an internal defect, is destroyed in an incident that comes to be known as the "Gate Accident"; the gate exploded, and a massive blast of energy erupted from the gate and cracked the surface of the Moon, destroying a large part of it. Lunar debris immediately began to fall upon the Earth, devastating the planet's surface and killing 4.7 billion people. Fifty years later the human race numbers only 1.6 billion, but has colonized the entire Solar System through the use of perfected Gates.
While the Earth is still inhabited, its few remaining denizens must shelter themselves from the continuing rock falls in underground cities. With reconstruction rendered impossible by the rock falls, the human race instead terraformed other bodies of the Solar System including a variety of space habitats and industrialized asteroids. This solar community maintains a high level of racial and cultural diversity, and continues to use a large number of different languages, artwork and governments. However, its economy is predominantly Asian, using a nondivisible currency called the Woolong.
The population crash has led to a relative stagnation in technological development, though the Gates make space travel relatively easy. Directed energy weapons exist, but are large and dependent on heavy power sources. Gunpowder-based projectile weapons are the mainstay of combat, and many gun models from the beginning of the 20th century continue to be widely used.
As the Gates make it possible to cross the System in a matter of weeks, it became unfeasible for law enforcement to pursue criminals away from a given world. Criminal activity increased at every level of society; small-time criminals could act with relative impunity, and ruthless crime syndicates became as powerful as multinational corporations. In response, the bounty system of the Old West was reinstated throughout the System. Bounty hunters are encouraged to capture criminals and return them (alive and relatively unharmed) to the authorities for monetary rewards, in part through a regular television broadcast of "Big Shot", a bounty-hunter news program featuring Punch and Judy. This TV show is broadcast with a western motif and in the slang of the era, the term "Cowboys" refers to bounty hunters.
---
The Bebop is made up of a bridge, general living quarters, storage for food and supplies, and a small hangar to allow docking of smaller one-man space vessels.

Now we need the plot of Cowboy Bebop properly put in... --Yamara ✉ 01:39, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

I don't like the phrasing of this

Now, I agree with the sentiment expressed in 'It is considered one of the best anime series ever made', but that phrasing just strikes me as the sort of thing written by an obsessed fan. Vranak (talk) 18:34, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Could be changed to 'It is considered one of the best anime series ever made, as of Newtype USA' or something like that. It obviously need to be reconsidered, even if I, me too, share the sentiment that Cowboy Bebop is one of the best anume series ever made. OrphLL (talk) 00:11, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

This irks me too. At first the phrase was acceptable to me, thinking that the series has received critical acclaim through the years that it has existed, and across many countries (most especially Japan). Then I clicked on the link and saw the least credible source I could've ever imagined: a survey, by a publisher I've never really heard of (which, upon research, I've learned ceased publication), in a single country not exactly known for its booming anime fandom, and for only a short period of time. Ridiculous.

I would suggest a more ambiguous phrasing. Something like "It is considered by many fans to be one of the best anime series ever made (or 'of all time')" StryyderG (talk) 20:03, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

But that would fall into weasel words wouldn't it? I am a big fan too, but I support the idea of getting a more reliable source to support it. It shouldn't be very hard to find one, or is it?. In the lecacy section there is a mention that CB landed 2nd place in a top 25 list by Newtype USA (I don't know who they are), that according to an article by animenewsnetwork.com. Are they as reputed as their motto says ("...most trusted anime news source")? if so the statement could use that source.--71.112.18.241 (talk) 10:22, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Couldn't the phrase "critically acclaimed" be used, presuming someone found reputable critics to cite? I would also have thought that surveys by reputable magazines and review sites could also be used to support the popularity amongst anime fans. I'm also pretty sure that Animenewsnetwork.com is reputable, but whether it is WP:RELIABLE? 124.169.112.178 (talk) 10:03, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Opening

Would it be correct to say that the opening was Saul Bass inspired? Jigen III (talk) 14:54, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Only if you can find commentary from a credible source to back that up. Hewinsj (talk) 19:52, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Tokyopop anime guides

Would you all please use the Cowboy Bebop anime guides by Tokyopop to reference additional material for this article? WhisperToMe (talk) 23:26, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

I think you should, really, or someone else who wants to sign up for the member-only-access site you name. Without membership, I could not get anything off of it other than an image, and we have those already. Anarchangel (talk) 00:51, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

I have the books. What needs them as a reference? When/if I have time I can review the article(s) and add references, but it would be quicker if they could be pointed out to me.--MrsSpooky 22:08, 4 December 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by MrsSpooky (talk • contribs)

music cd quality

As a late comer to the anime genre, but as an avid critic of music, I find the cds, of my daughter to contain very high quality music . This wikipedia page has provided useful material in my search on the topic. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 164.113.135.10 (talk) 17:06, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Cast image

I've removed File:Cowboy-bebop-754433.jpg from the article as it is a complete failure at actually identifying the characters. The characters are far to small and the faces are unrecognizable. Even on the full size image, these is insufficient detail with the characters' design. I also don't see that it being an "outdoor scene" gives it any additional significance as outdoor scenes are not unusual for this type of science fiction, nor mentioned in the critical commentary. —Farix (t | c) 17:24, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

I like your adding of the names to the infobox pic, well done.
You are wrong about it being useless for comparison, however, because the other photo, where you can see their faces could still be compared by to to put a name to each face, as their bodies are very distinctive. Obviously it is preferable to put that part of the caption directly underneath the best picture for it, so I will leave that caption where it is.
However, the outdoor image is valuable for another reason, that is clearly stated in the caption. The infobox image is almost entirely unlike anything in the series; it is dark to the point of being gloomy, and Goth subculture is just not what CB is about. Hence other half of the caption, which together with the picture makes it clear that outdoor scenes are a common part of the series. This also cannot be stated merely with words. Anarchangel (talk) 00:13, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Um, I don't see anything in the DVD cover image that will give someone the impression that it is part of the Goth subculture. The use of Dark or black doesn't mean that something is Gothic. But it does convey the series "gritty" portrayal of the characters. Moreover, there is not sourced critical commentary about the image or the series visual style in relation to the image. So it fails WP:NFCC Criteria #8. —Farix (t | c) 01:05, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

"Non-free content is used only if its presence would significantly increase readers' understanding of the topic, and its omission would be detrimental to that understanding."? That sounds more like the argument I was making than an argument against it. Anarchangel (talk) 04:29, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

I don't see the image as doing anything other than being decorative. It illustrates nothing mentioned in the text of the article and the reader is not going to miss anything if the image is absent. So its removal will not be detrimental to the article. The caption is also self-serving as outdoor scenes are rather common in science fiction, but the caption tries to implies that it is something unusual about Cowboy Bebop. —Farix (t | c) 11:38, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Update to 'Legacy Section'

Added quote from an IGN article, I have not learned how to properly reference yet, so if anyone wants to add the link it is this:

http://music.ign.com/articles/708/708910p2.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by EditorSchmetitor (talk • contribs) 20:56, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

Reference 26, Daily Texan Online

There is an interview with director Shinichiro Watanabe that is used as a reference in a number of Cowboy Bebop pages here. They are moving to a new web host and not all of the pages are currently accessable. I have been told it will soon be available again, just in case someone goes through to clean up broken links, please leave the Daily Texan Online link alone at least until the end of April. Thanks! --MrsSpooky 21:02, 4 April 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by MrsSpooky (talk • contribs)

I heard from the webmaster who said the Watanabe interview will be back, but he didn't have an ETA. If I have to, I can provide a link to the cache of the page http://74.125.45.132/search?q=cache:_Ze_hhDkwKoJ:www.dailytexanonline.com/life-arts/cowboy-bebop-director-watanabe-talks-anime-1.971462+watanabe+daily+texan+bebop&hl=en&client=safari&gl=us&strip=1

--MrsSpooky 16:27, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

Need opinions. Daily Texan Online still hasn't placed the interview back on the web page and the cache expired. I had the cache as a pdf, but don't know if that will be a valid link for a reference. I just found that the full text of the interview was posted to this message board: http://www.setbb.com/amalgam/viewtopic.php?t=1783&sid=b13dafbf5a7c8d3b2c6e444b970e38c4&mforum=amalgam . Would that be valid to use in place of the Daily Texan interview? That interview is a valuable resource and is referenced in a number of articles here and I hate to lose it because they haven't put the page back up in an archives section. Any thoughts? MrsSpooky 17:53, 30 July 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by MrsSpooky (talk • contribs)

"Manga Demographic: Shōjo, Shōnen"

??? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.99.32.190 (talk) 03:48, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

I changed it to Shojo. 91.115.89.172 (talk) 17:13, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

Out of interest, why is this anime / manga considered shōjo? I'm curious because it really doesn't seem to be aimed at girls, surely the intended demographic of the anime was a male and female audience? Churkirby (talk) 00:26, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

The Anime isn't considered Shojo, but the Manga is: it was released in a Shojo magazine. I'm not even sure, whether the Japanese use the word "Shojo" also for anime (same for Seinen, Shonen, Josei), or whether it's manga-exlusive. 91.115.91.106 (talk) 06:11, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

Faye Valentine's birth year

Was Faye Valentine born in 1994 or 1998? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.13.16.53 (talk) 00:16, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

The show took place in 2071 and she was 23 years old. She came out of cryosleep three years previously after 54 years, so she must have been 20 when the accident happened. I came up with 2071 - 3 - 54 - 20 = 1994. --MrsSpooky 13:55, 3 October 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by MrsSpooky (talk • contribs)

well i doubt it's necessary to state her exact age, especially if no other source gives any attention to it. it would be good to mention she's over certain ammount years old. Bread Ninja (talk) 20:06, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

It probably isn't necessary, 'cause it's not stated in the show (the show doesn't state Spike's age either), but it IS referenced in Anime Guide #1 on page 8. In fact, I think the only character whose age was given in the show was Jet, and that was in a promo.--MrsSpooky 22:49, 3 October 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by MrsSpooky (talk • contribs)

Live action - Joshua long

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/anncast/2010-10-15 Audio interview 23:00-37:45 on 15/10/2010

An interview with Joshua Long, independent film producer and co-founder of 1212 Entertainment. He is the executive producer of the live-action cowboy bebop movie. His company seems to have been renamed recently from 3 arts entertainment.

says half a billion dollars is misinterpreted
"script is very big, bebop hops around planets"
but its within the studios capability to make this movie
"It does center around Spike, Vicious and Julia"
"sits comfortably within the anime as we know it" - "Its not an origins story"
"when fox gets behind a project they seriously get behind a project"
"We need to find the right creative team, were not just going to take any creative team, so it does take time"
"We're all so confident that its gonna go forward"
"It's mars, these are decrepit civilizations... it's very moody, it's noir" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.161.33.199 (talk) 17:40, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2982080/ IMDB shows him as being involved in the development of cowboy bebop (2011)

203.161.68.25 (talk) 12:38, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

"Bounty" defined

Under STORY:

"They are a team of bounty hunters who travel the Solar System trying to apprehend bounties."

Should be:

"They are a team of bounty hunters who travel the Solar System trying to apprehend criminals and collect bounties." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.139.196.247 (talk) 17:07, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

Not really.Bread Ninja (talk) 17:33, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

I agree with 66.139.196.247. The definition of "bounty" is "a premium or reward, especially one offered by a government." Bounty hunters don't "apprehend" rewards. They receive rewards for apprehending criminals. WaxTadpole (talk) 16:08, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

Genre

Does manga really have Shōjo genre? It more like falls into Shōnen manga genre. 79.104.216.181 (talk) 06:49, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

Shōjo is a age demographic group and not a genre. Second, Asuka Fantasy DX is listed as a shōjo manga magazine, meaning that its readers are young girls—probably in the upper end of the age demographic (teenagers). —Farix (t | c) 15:59, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

4 Bounty Hunters or 5?

The article contradicts itself: in the opening, it states that there are four bounty hunters, but Ein's section describes him as the third bounty hunter to join the crew, which would make the total number five. Which is it? Are there any sources, scripts, etc, that support the idea that we should think of Ein as a bounty hunter? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.253.221.242 (talk) 03:56, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

DVD's

It should be noted that the DVD's do not contain the broadcasted episodes but rather uncut episodes that contain more violence and swearing and would be rated TV-MA 70.249.218.43 (talk) 02:10, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

Official website

Is the link for this wrong or has the change not been noted? http://www.cowboy-bebop.net/

As the international license holder, does Madman get to have their page listed as official?

http://www.madman.com.au/actions/series.do?method=view&videogramId=3110

The links currently listed are broken.

Shown listed on:

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=13

and on the official distributors page in Japan:

http://www.sunrise-anime.jp/news/cowboy-bebop/ --Jtkwlum (talk) 02:31, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

cowboy bebop and chinese philosophy metaphors

Hey guys I noticed something interesting. Laughing bull calls spike swimming bird. I don't know too much but here goes.

In Chinese mythology a Jain is a 1 eyed (spike) 1 winged (jet) water bird. That are said to have to live dependent upon each other in order to fly.

Jian is also a central theme of the dao de jing one of the 3 treasures.

P'u is translated as "uncarved block" or "simplicity". It is a metaphor for the state of wu wei and the principle of jian. It represents a passive state of receptiveness. P'u is a symbol for a state of pure potential and perception without prejudice. In this state, Taoists believe everything is seen as it is, without preconceptions or illusion. P'u is seen as keeping oneself in the primordial state of tao. It is believed to be the true nature of the mind, unburdened by knowledge or experiences. In the state of p'u, there is no right or wrong, beautiful or ugly. There is only pure experience, or awareness, free from learned labels and definitions. It is this state of being that is the goal of following wu wei.

There ya have it I don't want to start messing with the page but I thought this was cool and wanted to share. There's more stuff about it in the i ching but I have to do more reading. Monkeyinalamborghini (talk) 01:31, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

you need a reliable source to prove it. Also doesnt seem very relevant. Too trivial.Lucia Black (talk) 03:01, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

The bird "Monkeyinalamborghini" mentioned actually came from the ancient Chinese book Shan Hai Jing (simplified Chinese: 山海经; traditional Chinese: 山海經; pinyin: Shānhǎi Jīng; Wade–Giles: Shan Hai Ching; literally "Classic of the Mountains and Seas" or "Collection of the Mountains and Seas" or "Canon of Mountains and Seas""). That's rignt it is a bird with 1 eye and 1 wing, whose name is jiān jiān（鹣鹣）or mán mán（蛮蛮）. In oder to fly, the male and female need to combine together, so later the phrase "fly wing to wing(simplified Chinese: 比翼双飞; traditional Chinese:比翼雙飛)" are usually used to discribe couple. In conclusion, the analysis that the 1 eyed & 1 winged water bird metaphorize spike & jet is not correct, because the Original intention is two single wings live dependent upon each other, but not a wing and a eye.

ps: I don't think "cowboy bebop" has something to do with Taoism. — Preceding unsigned comment added by YOYAZI (talk • contribs) 11:27, 30 January 2013 (UTC)

Anachronisms?

I have removed the word "anachronisms" in the section "Settings" because it is used incorrectly. The paragraph in question writes: "The world of Cowboy Bebop is filled with anachronisms. The technology is a mixture of the futuristic (cybernetics, jump gates, energy weapons) and the modern (wheeled cars, handguns, zippo-styled lighters), both of which are blended together. Even "new" technology often looks a bit older and battered." However, if one clicks on the link embedded in the word "anachronisms" to jump to the Wiki page on that term, one finds that the term is defined as "a chronological inconsistency in some arrangement, especially a juxtaposition of person(s), events, objects, or customs from different periods of time." Saying Cowboy Bebop is full of anachronisms because it envisions a future where people still use devices and vehicles of the late-1990s along with more scifi, futuristic devices and vehicles is like saying our use of ink pens and paper is anachronistic because we have word processing software on our computers. I have changed the paragraph in question to: "The technology in the world of Cowboy Bebop is a mixture of the futuristic (cybernetics, jump gates, energy weapons) and the modern (wheeled cars, handguns, zippo-styled lighters), both of which are blended together. Yet, even "new" technology often looks a bit older and battered." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Panicsetsin (talk • contribs) 07:06, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

Plot addition

I would like to add more information to the plot of the story since it really doesn't tell much of it. By adding more information about the story will help make readers or watchers to try the story. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tio Oso (talk • contribs) 16:41, 30 January 2013 (UTC)

Vicious' mascot/totem

In the article, the bird that accompanies Vicious, perched on his shoulder, is referred to as a "crow-like bird". I don't think this is accurate. It reminds me of a cormorant or some other fish-eating bird. I have wondered whether it is, what significance it has in Japanese mythology or folklore, and whether any mythological significance is therefore implied for Vicious' character.

In any case, it's definitely not a crow or crow-like.

TheBaron0530 (talk) 15:44, 8 May 2013 (UTC)theBaron0530

TV Tokyo edits

I found a Japanese webpage containing comparisons of TV Tokyo's broadcast and WOWOW's broadcast. Would it be of any use?

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fhome-aki.la.coocan.jp%2Fbebop-tx.htm&anno=2 Magicperson6969 (talk) 05:20, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

If the comparisons are significant/noteworthy, sure. TheStickMan^[✆Talk] 05:50, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

Plagiarism

Most sentences from the section Genre and cultural references are taken directly from the first two pages of source number ten without alteration or quotation. I consider this to be clear plagiarism. Am I wrong? The scope is too large for me to consider fixing it myself at the moment.

krutulism (talk) 11:51, 30 May 2014 (EDT)

Probably you're right. Gabriel Yuji (talk) 19:20, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

Unless some one else is claiming those are their own words, i wouldn't go too far to call it plagiarism. Probably misinforming. Lucia Black (talk) 19:34, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

Excuse me? krutulism is correct, try actually reading the cited source. The words are those of the source's author, Robert Baigent, and entire paragraphs of that section are verbatim plagiarism, except where the sloppy editor misquoted it and altered the meaning. I just fixed one passage where the editor claimed that "In 'Wild Horses' the influence of Star Trek pervades throughout" which is an unconscionable misquotation of Baigent's "In 'Wild Horses' characters are named after the Star Trek crew and the influence of Star Wars pervades throughout." The section needs to be completely rewritten. In addition to blatant plagiarism, there's no telling how many other details the editor misquoted. 12.233.147.42 (talk) 23:31, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

Unless someone here is claiming that this is their own words, then it doesn't really mean "plagiarism". For the most part it could be "misquoted", which can be easily fixed by "Original Author stated [add quote here]". Its easy to fix. Plagiarism implies that someone is taking words from someone else and claiming it to be their own, which Wikipedia is all about taking several sources and using the info in them, and often times, that includes "quotes". Now if the person "misquoted" fine. If the person is claiming that these are his own words, then that is blatant plagiarism, but even then it can be fixed quite easily. So rather than making a bigger issue than it has to be (because its not direct plagiarism), make the fixes you need.

Afterall, nothing we add here is technically "ours", in most cases we're taking from other sources and referencing them here. Lucia Black (talk) 00:01, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

It seems like an obvious case of plagiarism to me. If someone is copying content from a source word-for-word into an article, they might as well be claiming those words as their own. Even if they don't, plagiarism is plagiarism, copying words is bad, and it should get fixed.

I understand that in some cases, it's just a very similar rewording, but that doesn't seem to be the situation here. TheStickMan^[✆Talk] 01:58, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

Demographic Group Shōjo?

Regarding the following quote from the development section of the article:

Watanabe wanted to design not just a space adventure series for adolescent boys but a program that would also appeal to sophisticated adults.

I don't get the shwon demographic group shōjo (which means "a teenage female readership"). Shouldn't it be something like seinen? --ThSpeck (talk) 21:56, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

The manga series was ran in Monthly Asuka Fantasy DX, which is listed as a shōjo manga magazine. The demographic is based on the magazine and not the content of the manga series. —Farix (t | c) 01:05, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

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Review(s)

--Gabriel Yuji (talk) 17:07, 6 July 2014 (UTC)

Uncannily, I just came here to suggest adding these EX articles under Reception- at the moment, that section is a bit heavy on ANN, and in particular to one reviewer, quoted across five long sentences rather than the two or three suggested by the Wikipedia TV style manual. If no-one objects I'll find a way to incorporate these that balances out. Besides anything else, the first of these EX reviews was published during the first broadcast in Japan, so it would make a great start for the section. Contrafour (talk) 16:49, 19 November 2016 (UTC)

Maughan, Tim (November 17, 2011). "Ten Anime Series You Should See Before You Die". Tor.com.

--Gabriel Yuji (talk) 23:26, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

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Demographics

The stats box on the right says the following: "Demographic Shōjo " That has to be wrong. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.15.139.37 (talk) 20:07, 13 August 2017 (UTC)

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IGN interview

The Many Inspirations of Cowboy Bebop Director Shinichiro Watanabe. --ProtoDrake (talk) 21:13, 24 November 2017 (UTC)

Ready Player One

So it's confirmed that the Swordfish II appears in Spielberg's adaptation of Ready Player One. Is that worth inclusion in the article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.1.192.233 (talk) 13:12, 26 March 2018 (UTC)

Praise

"there are reviews in existence which consider this anime overrated or mediocre" lol I'm sure you're talking about MAL reviews. Can you at least cite a reliable source that says bebop is overrated? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.39.85.97 (talk) 14:32, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

For anyone arriving hereafter, the matter IP 37 is referencing was discussed between the two of us in the following edit summaries: [1], [2], & [3]. To summarize, someone added the phrase "[Cowboy Bebop] has received universal acclaim." to the lead. This was obviously a mistaken application of the common English idiom "near universal acclaim"; the mistake is pretty transparent, seeing as the idiom is never used in English without the "near", for obvious reasons: no narrative or other work of art in the entire history of human expression has impressed everyone, so the claim of "universal acclaim" is always per se inaccurate. I therefore corrected to the standard use of this idiom in what I expected to be a non-controversial edit, but IP 37 has reverted twice (he does seem genuine in his belief that everyone in existence enjoys this work as much as he and I do), so I'm going to have to take the time to explain the controlling policies here, despite the triviality of the change. But, fair enough:

37, I am afraid that you are mistaken about the manner in which the burden of proof for WP:Verification works on this project; you've challenged me to aggregate sources to disprove your assertion, but you are the party is who is making the WP:EXCEPTIONAL claim here (that every critic ever has celebrated the series with acclaim), so you are the one bears the WP:BURDEN to support your view with a source. Furthermore, you can't do it by looking at a collection of reviews and coming to your own conclusions about what they collectively assert, as this is textbook WP:Original research by way of WP:SYNTHESIS. In fact, it would also be original research if I were to try to settle this matter in the manner you suggested (by providing the easy-to-find examples of critics who didn't consider CB to be the best thing since sliced bread). Instead you need to find a source which supports the contested wording explicitly (that is, using the exact same framing, in this instance). In fact, because the claim is WP:EXCEPTIONAL, not only do you need to find such sources to prevail on this content issue, you need to find a significant number of sources which say "Cowboy Bebop has been universally acclaimed," to support that this extreme claim represents an accurate reading of the WP:WEIGHT of the sources.

I doubt very much that you will find a source which says exactly "Cowboy Bebop has received universal acclaim." -- again, because that's just not how this idiom is used; anyone who uses that phrase will add the "near", pretty much without exception -- and I'm absolutely certain you will not find enough to meet the weight burden. Nevertheless, because this is not a pressing change, I'll give you a decent amount of time to conduct a search, as a matter of good-faith and open-mindedness. However, please do read the policies cited above and consider what I have described about the verification standards here. You need to meet a massive bar here to validate your perspective, and you need to do it without original research or synthesis. Best of luck to you. For what it's worth, I think anyone who doesn't see this series as a standout of the medium cannot possibly be aware what a quantum leap forward it was in its day. But I assure you, there are people that disagree with us about how good it is. And anyway, "near universal acclaim" is still near the extreme edge of high praise. Anyway, adieu for now. Snow ^{let's rap} 23:48, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

Could this be resolved by changing "received universal acclaim" "received wide acclaim"? This would avoid the MOS:PUFFery that "universal" implies. —Farix (t | c) 01:07, 4 July 2018 (UTC)

Personally I think "wide acclaim" is a bit less potent than "near universal acclaim", and I'd rather not water down the statement quite that much. I do agree that as a general rule that even the phrase "near universal acclaim" sounds a bit pufferish, but it might actually be accurate in this instance; the show is a candidate for the single most celebrated work in its entire medium. Still, I suppose "great acclaim" or "celebrated acclaim" might work? Actually, I kind of like that last one. It says the show has well-recognized stature, without taking it to extremes. Eh, I'm open to discussion. I just felt that "universal" was too much, and probably only ended up there as a misapplication of a common idiom. Snow ^{let's rap} 01:31, 4 July 2018 (UTC)

I think "great acclaim" fits.31.203.110.193 (talk) 19:00, 4 July 2018 (UTC)

That's fine by me. I also like the option of "widespread critical acclaim" which you mentioned previously. And I'm still amenable to "near universal acclaim". Should we do a quick strawpoll, maybe? Snow ^{let's rap} 01:44, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

Survey

Please select your choices, per the content and sourcing considerations discussed above:

A) "universal acclaim" (current)

B) "near-universal acclaim"

C) "great acclaim"

D) "widespread critical acclaim"

E) "celebrated acclaim"

If you select more than one, please indicate the priority of your preference. Snow ^{let's rap} 01:52, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

I like B or D as first choices, but C or E would work as well. I think A is not accurate enough to be an ideal option. Snow ^{let's rap} 01:52, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

Late reply, but how about ‘garnering heavy’ or ‘considerable’ acclaim’? That way, you can express a show being heavily acclaimed without needing polls or praise aggregators from other countries to express ‘widespread’. ‘Strong acclaim’ may also work, too. Barely made one (talk) 20:50, 31 October 2018 (UTC)

I like (D) a lot. Seems like it works well with the format of the article. RyanG2203 13:05, 03 December 2018

Cowboy Bebop's Demographic

Is it truly a shojo work? I would have considered it quintessentially seinen. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 14.203.7.158 (talk) 11:54, 6 November 2018 (UTC)

Woolong listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Woolong. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. Steel1943 (talk) 13:15, 15 May 2019 (UTC)

Sales rankings in May 2000

Y'all may find this reference useful: http://web.archive.org/web/20010706135824/http://j-pop.com/anime/news/top10.html

It gives top-10 sales rankings of anime in the US & Japan. This is included in the list. --Gwern (contribs) 01:30 26 January 2010 (GMT)

US anime sales

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/feature/bandai_downsizing_ken_iyadomi_interview

Bandai Entertainment says Cowboy Bebop was their #1 selling anime of all time in the US. Seems relevant to the article... --Gwern (contribs) 22:48 3 January 2012 (GMT)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

Yoko Kanno.jpg

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Live-action series page?

So, I was looking through Wikipedia and saw that the live action series for Netflix is only featured in the other media section of this page. So, I was wondering why hasn’t there been a page created for it? (Or, at the very least, a draft page for it) FilmLover72 (talk) 17:15, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

"Woolong (fictional currency)" listed at Redirects for discussion

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Woolong (fictional currency). The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 December 19#Woolong (fictional currency) until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Dominicmgm (talk) 18:27, 19 December 2020 (UTC)

Infobox image

@ProtoDrake: @Xexerss: With the upcoming liveaction series, shouldn't we change the infobox image from a logo to a keyvisual or home media release cover? It might make the article easier to illustrate in contrast to that small image? Cheers.Tintor2 (talk) 02:23, 29 September 2021 (UTC)

I dunno. Does the live-action series have the exact same logo? Anyway, IMO a key visual or home video cover would better represent the series. --Xexerss (talk) 02:34, 29 September 2021 (UTC)

A key art with logo would be ideal, but key art would do fine. Or a suitable box art from one of the home media releases. And yes, the logo for the live action version is borderline identical, so could cause confusion. --ProtoDrake (talk) 07:43, 29 September 2021 (UTC)