Talk:Daniel Ricciardo

Nationality

@Lobo151: - Regarding his lead sentence nationality, MOS:ETHNICITY/CONTEXTBIO states that "Nationalities or the place of birth should not be mentioned in the lead unless relevant to the subject's notability," this includes mentioning ethnicity unless otherwise stated (as his nationality is linked to the "Italian Australians" ethnic group). WP:BIOLEAD states that the first sentence should establish "context (location, nationality, etc.) for the activities that made the person notable". Although he mentions having an Italian passport[1], Ricciardo is, AFAIK, most notable/prominent as an Australian racing driver and currently competing in Formula One as an Australian. His Formula One Biography simply states that he is "Australian",[2] as does his profile on the "Motor Sports Stats" website,[3] which is part of "Motorsport Network". There are also other sources here which simply describe him as being "Australian"[4] Clear Looking Glass (talk) 19:03, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

Because his father is Italian I don't see why this should not be mentioned the same like for example Lando Norris or Lance Stroll.Lobo151 (talk) 19:42, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

@Lobo151: - I'm aware of his parents origins, and I'm also aware of the nationality wording of people like Lando Norris or Lance Stroll. But I've also read Wikipedia's guidelines. Personally, I'm not sure why other notable people like David Dobrik or Timothée Chalamet have arguments against mentioning their nationalities or other nationalities/citizenship that they possess but Ricciardo and other racing drivers are different. Ricciardo, as well as Lando Norris and Lance Stroll are AFAIK, most notable driving under one of their nationalities, but seem to be exceptions. And Chalamet for example has a French father, French citizenship and spent part of his childhood in France, but other users have pointed out Wikipedia's guidelines to justify why he is only "American". But I guess it is what it is. Clear Looking Glass (talk) 19:55, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

He is Australian not Italian. He was born and educated in Perth, Western Australia. His family still live in the family home of Carine, Perth, WA. He went to the local primary and high school. 2001:8004:13F0:18F:2035:44BE:D808:71A0 (talk) 01:13, 14 May 2023 (UTC)

With regard to the above discussion, I propose to correct his nationality to "Australian". GTHO (talk) 03:27, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

That is against what sources say in the article and provided here. Like said before this is not any different then Lando Norris or Lance Stroll.Lobo151 (talk) 05:19, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

I agree with Lobo151 LesRoutine (talk) 09:41, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

What sources are we saying support him being shown as an "Italian racing driver" please? GTHO (talk) 05:55, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

The article and especially the lead is about him as a person, not solely about his racing career. It is clearly nuanced that he has both nationalities and is professionally active under the Australian flag. This is definitely less confusing and certainly more detailed than taking this information away from the reader. I don't see the problem. See also Nico Rosberg, Romain Grosjean, Lance Stroll, Max Verstappen, Lando Norris, Pascal Wehrlein,... LesRoutine (talk) 15:10, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

References

Description of Max Verstappen

This is an unnecessary, personal attack. ”Max Verstappen (who is a cocky, angry, and lisp talking dutch)” 45.48.82.75 (talk) 23:06, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

Y Vandalism removed. Thanks for bringing it to our attention. DH85868993 (talk) 05:08, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

“On loan to AlphaTauri”

Please do not alter the "on loan to AlphaTauri" phrase. Daniel Ricciardo is still a Red Bull test driver who has been loaned to AlphaTauri. PLEASE DO NOT VANDALIZE and believe that you are more correct than the Red Bull Team. If you're referring to the case of Carlos Sainz Jr., that article is likewise incorrect. You are not more correct than the official Red Bull Team because you are a Wikipedia editor, not a member of the Red Bull F1 team. SOURCE: “Daniel Ricciardo will be driving for Scuderia AlphaTauri with immediate effect. Joining the Scuderia on loan from Oracle Red Bull Racing, Daniel will line up in Budapest for his first race.” from https://www.redbullracing.com/int-en/daniel-ricciardo-on-loan-to-alpha-tauri-for-2023-season?utm_source=RBR_Twitter&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=DR_SAT_Announcement&utm_content=Press_Release The Man Without Fear ^🦇 20:14, 11 July 2023 (UTC)

I believe the title should simply be "AlphaTauri (2023-)". While Ricciardo is on loan from Red Bull Racing it's not mutually exclusive from the simple title "AlphaTauri (2023-)"; all the shorter heading is stating is that this is an era where he is driving for that team. The on loan aspect is mostly contracting details. Wanted to start a discussion, as several people have opted for different titles at this point and we should find a consensus before edit warring. Cerebral726 (talk) 20:16, 11 July 2023 (UTC)

@5225C:, please discuss the change you wished to make here. I agree with your edit, and would like to reach a consensus here, per The Man Without Fear's request. --Cerebral726 (talk) 21:23, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

"PLEASE DO NOT VANDALIZE and believe that you are more correct than the Red Bull Team" is an incredibly bizarre thing to say. Nobody is claiming he is not "on loan". What editors have been doing is changing the wording and arrangement of the headings. This is not vandalism and does not contradict Red Bull, nor does it mislead editors. You are being overdramatic and presumptuous in your statements. When it comes to Red Bull, it is very well known that drivers do not contract directly with AlphaTauri: they make their contracts with Red Bull, and are then assigned to a team ([5]). This is why Red Bull can unilaterally rearrange its drivers mid season. Whether a driver is "on loan" is a minor detail - in Sainz's case, it is actually more important than it is here, since he was being contracted between two different teams. In the case of Ricciardo, it's entirely irrelevant, because de Vries and Tsunoda were also technically "on loan" from Red Bull. It's an utterly meaningless distinction to make in this context. Yes, it can be mentioned in the prose, no worries, although it shouldn't be mentioned in the lead. No, it does not need to be and should not be mentioned in the headings. The headings as I had them ("Return to Red Bull" being the level 3 heading, with "Red Bull Third Driver (2023)" and "AlphaTauri (2023)" being level 4 headings) were perfectly fine: they made clear Ricciardo was back in the Red Bull teams, included his stint as "Third Driver", and his return to active racing. This is the way we've always displayed it, and it's endured because there's actually nothing wrong with it. It's clear and concise and does not confuse the reader with inclusion of useless, trivial detail. 5225_C (talk • contributions) 09:40, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

Good day my colleagues @5225C @Cerebral726. I have been very busy this days, and I lack energy for this, so I cannot discuss this anymore with you. You are welcome to remove the “On loan” and I will not revert it again. Consider this matter resolved 👍🏼 Thank you. The Man Without Fear ^🦇 21:07, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

Description of personal popularity and smile

Lobo151, regarding this edit, which removed Off the track, he is known for his personal popularity, positive disposition, and smile. My goal with that statement was to reflect the fact that an incredible number of sources focus on those three aspects of him. Failing to include those descriptors gives an incomplete picture of Ricciardo. You removed the sentence with the statement that "we are not a fan site", but the text seems quite neutral to me, just reflecting sources like the following: [6][7][8][9][10] Cerebral726 (talk) 14:28, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

That is someting that should be mentioned under public image with more content provided. The opening paragraph should provide context for the activities that made the person notable. He is notable because he is a Formula One driver that won races. That he is known for his smile? That sound to me Wikipedia:Wikipedia is not a fan website and not NPOV. Especially not for in the opening paragraph. What is next that we mentioned at Günther Steiner he is known for swearing?.Lobo151 (talk) 06:54, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

Per MOS:BLPLEAD, The lead section should summarise the life and works of the person with due weight. A significant part of Daniel's life and notability is that he is immensely famous and widely known not only for his on track achievements, but for his distinct personality and smile. It is mentioned far more than any other driver on the grid, as shown by the 5 strong sources I provided as well as countless others ("Even when struggling, he's still got a sense of humor and a killer smile.""Ricciardo is a world-famous Formula 1 race-car driver with millions of Instagram followers and a zillion-watt smile," and another). There is nothing biased or peacock-y about using independent, reliable sources to establish notable and oft-reported aspects of Ricciardo, and not including them in the lead is not fulfilling WP:DUE. Cerebral726 (talk) 13:08, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

I would like to hear other users opinions. I still don't see the need for it for in the opening paragraph. It should be mentioned under public image where it belongs.Lobo151 (talk) 07:51, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

He is immensely famous yes, and his smile is well known, but that is all because he is a racing driver, without his profession as a racing driver, nobody would have known about his smile. His smile also doesn't make an appearance anywhere without being linked to his racing activities. LesRoutine (talk) 11:48, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

3O Response: I would agree that such material does not belong in the lead, especially as without context, "is known for" is rather weaselly, and the material is pretty fluffy in tone. If reliable sources have commented on those things extensively, we can of course discuss that in the body of the article, as suggested, with additional context and without it just seeming like fluff and "talking up". Also, there is the question of whether those things are just mentioned in passing, or whether there's serious examination of them—for example, on what impact they may have had on his career or the like. If people just sometimes say, in essence, "I like his smile", that may or may not bear any mention at all. But definitely not in the lead. Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} 19:40, 19 July 2023 (UTC)