Talk:David Coleman

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Poss Copyright Issues[edit]

Anyone care to guess at who's been copying who and then paraphrasing?

Wikipedia:- David Coleman, OBE (26 April 1926 – 21 December 2013) was a British sports commentator and TV presenter who worked for the BBC for over 40 years. He covered eleven Olympic Games from 1960 to 2000 and six football World Cups.

He presented some of the BBC's leading sporting programmes, including Grandstand and Sportsnight, and was the host of A Question of Sport for 18 years. He retired from the BBC in 2000. Later that year he became the first broadcaster to receive the Olympic Order award, in recognition of his contribution to the Olympic movement.[1]

BBC:- He first appeared on air for the BBC in 1954, covering 11 Olympic Games from Rome in 1960 to Sydney 2000 and six football World Cups.

Coleman presented some of the BBC's leading sporting programmes, including Grandstand and Sportsnight, and was the host of Question of Sport for 18 years.

He was awarded an OBE in 1992 and retired from the BBC in 2000.

Later that year he became the first broadcaster to receive the Olympic Order award, in recognition of his contribution to the Olympic movement.

My guess is that the BBC have been 'researching' him online as having worked for them for 40 years they know little about him, but I mention it in case I'm wrong. --wintonian talk 18:38, 21 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Also please be carefull out there and bear in mind this is the sort of thing that can happen if editors are not carefull about following WP:CIRCULAR. --wintonian talk 19:29, 21 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
When Bobby Robson died, The Telegraph and the BBC both flagrantly plagiarised Wikipedia. To the word. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:37, 21 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Ah yes be we do use an open licence allowing anyone to reuse however they like, thus leading to the risk that we go round and round in circles and eventually all fall down the 'rabbit hole'. --wintonian talk 19:54, 21 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
According to his Guardian obit he only covered five World Cups, not six (and 16 Olympics in total, both summer and winter). Jinjibïar (talk) 01:48, 22 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 31 May 2019[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. The page views from PC78 indicate that the current arrangement meets both the "much more than any other topic" and "more than all other topics combined", and Amakuru pointed out the historical significance supports (or no worse than doesn't oppose). The number of entries doesn't further affect the height of the bar. -- JHunterJ (talk) 13:43, 19 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

– There is not a clear primary topic for the name "David Coleman". Comparing page views of David Coleman vs. David Coleman (education) (the former name of David Coleman (educator)) alone, there is no primary topic. And comparing the page views of the two aforementioned pages and David Coleman (disambiguation), it is even less clear. Steel1943 (talk) 21:37, 31 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support per nom - no clear primary topic. When in doubt, it's safest to disambiguate. Paintspot Infez (talk) 22:41, 31 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • I wavered a bit on this, but weak support. The above pageview stats are flawed because they only cover the last six weeks or so, and yes, views for the educator increased significantly for a few days in the middle of May, but if we look at the long term page views going back to 2015 it's much more clear cut. However, when you consider all uses of the name, including the Australian politician, it does become less clear, and while I do think the sports commentator has the best claim for long term-significance with a career spanning almost 50 years, I'm not certain how well-known he would be outside the UK. PC78 (talk) 01:07, 1 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • I can sort of attest to the final sentence of the aforementioned comment: I'm located in the United States, and this is the first time I've ever heard of the subject currently sitting at the ambiguous title as the de facto primary topic. (But, then again, maybe I lived in a cave, so results may vary.) Steel1943 (talk) 01:34, 1 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per nomination, Paintspot Infez and PC78. With 12 entries at the David Coleman (disambiguation) page, the bar for WP:PRIMARYTOPIC is very high. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 05:24, 1 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per PC78. Crouch, Swale (talk) 16:36, 1 June 2019 (UTC).[reply]
  • Support per nom. Barca (talk) 15:45, 3 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. Interesting that several sportsmen with common names who are very prominent in America and not very well-known in the rest of the world were moved to primary topic recently, whereas there is considerable support for this sports commentator who is incredibly well-known in Britain, but probably not so much in the rest of the world, to be moved away from primary topic! I'm not necessarily saying he shouldn't be, but I am sensing a little bit of double standards. Of course Americans are going to feature more highly in page views; that's obvious, given how many more Americans there are. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:16, 5 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Although gone for five-and-a-half years, he spent 46 years with BBC and is undoubtedly well-remembered by those who had access to British radio and television during that era, similar to his contemporary, U.S. television's Jim McKay, whose sole competition for that exact name consisted of only two stubs, rather than 11 articles and stubs for other men named David Coleman. On the other hand, John Higgins who is little known, if at all, in the U.S., rose to the top of 25 other men at the John Higgins (disambiguation) page to become a nearly-unanimous primary topic (Talk:John Higgins#Requested move 8 April 2019). —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 00:46, 6 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support this move 2601:541:4500:1760:E424:32C6:B95D:802 (talk) 19:08, 6 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Taking the longer view of pageviews shows around 4000ish views per month for the commentator, 2000ish for the educator, and 100 ish for the dab page. That is to say, 4000 people land at David Coleman finding what they want, with only a 100 or so going to the dab page. That's a strong indication of primary topic, isn't it? Also, thousands of people looking him up over 5 years since his death indicates to me emerging long-term significance. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 14:21, 7 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • The 2/1 ratio of page views comparing the article for the Sports commentator versus the article for the educator to me does not show a primary topic; there is not a large enough difference with page views. In addition, when looking up the phrase "David Coleman" on the United Kingdom version of Google, when looking up the term "David Coleman", the results that primarily appear are for the American educator; results for the sports commentator do not show up until ... well, I've now passed the third page of results, and I'm still not seeing any results for the sports commentator. Steel1943 (talk) 14:42, 7 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      • Umm... I've just clicked on your Google UK link and there are several hits for the sports commentator on the first page. I don't see any for the American educator... PC78 (talk) 23:24, 8 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
        • @PC78: That's weird, considering what I said about the educator was true for me when using that link. Maybe Google's search results now go by where its user is located rather than which country's site a user uses? (Disclaimer: I'm located in the United States.) Steel1943 (talk) 00:28, 9 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Mild oppose. The arguments above convince me that the sport commentator is the subject most visitors to WP will be looking for, but it wouldn't be an outrage if the longer title were adopted. Tim riley talk 15:18, 12 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • ...Not sure about that claim. Per the discussion above, it seems the sport commentator is the primary topic in the UK, but the educator is the primary topic in the US. Steel1943 (talk) 16:59, 12 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      • Oh gosh, it's not a claim: merely an observation. Tim riley talk 18:06, 12 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
        • IMO, the words are interchangeable in discussions such as this, but I'm not worried about my word choice. Steel1943 (talk) 00:17, 13 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - when considering long-term significance, David Coleman the commentator edges out the educator. He has, after all, spawned a whole genre of humour known as the Colemanball. Page views are a wash too. I don't see a huge reason to change this.  — Amakuru (talk) 22:33, 17 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
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