Talk:Dennō Senshi Porygon/Archive 1

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Electric/Computer Soldier Porygon

This conversation took place on the WP:PCP talk page. It has been placed on this talk page so that those who come along and read about it can see why we chose this name for the article. The Hybrid 22:14, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

I thought this would be the right place to say that in the articles Pokémon and especially Banned episodes of Pokémon, the English name of the seizure episode (でんのうせんしポリゴン, Dennō Senshi Porigon) keeps going back and forth between Electric Soldier Porygon and Computer Soldier Porygon. I'm pretty sure we don't need this edit war so can we have some definitive answer to end this once and for all? --WikiSlasher 04:10, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

I've only heard of it as "Electric Soldier Porygon", but of course, I'm no expert on the subject. --Brandon Dilbeck 04:26, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
Serebii calls it Electric Soldier Porygon. I am 99% sure that is its most commonly used name in America, and seeing as Serebii lives in the UK... The Hybrid 14:26, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
Besides the Rōmaji being a little off: it should be "Den'no Senshi Porigon", most words having to do with electricity begin with "den". The Japanese do not have their own word for computer, they borrow the English word and spell it as コンピューター (pronounced konpyūtā). -SaturnYoshi THE VOICES 14:39, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
I ripped the Rōmaji from the article Banned episodes of Pokémon. And we can't forget Serebii (talk • contribs) is one person. Sorry to Serebii if he didn't make that account. --WikiSlasher 15:13, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
I doubt it anyway. I can back up the Den thing, the Dengeki Pikachu manga, translates to the US version, "Electric Pikachu". Anyhoo, Highway Daytrippers 20:56, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
Serebii, as in the owner and webmaster of Serebii.net, not a user. Anyway, the article is already called Electric Soldier Porygon, so I think it would be best to just stick with that name. [1] The Hybrid 22:26, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
電脳（でんのう, den'nou）literally means 'electric brain', but it refers to a physical 'compute'. Then, 戦士（せんし, senshi) can mean soldier or warrior. Also "Dengeki Pikachu", means literally "Electric Shock Pikachu" Shaojian 00:27, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
Sweet, so does that mean Computer Soldier Porygon is the correct translation, or do both of them work? The Hybrid 01:17, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
In my experience in translating, there never is just one correct translation, but "Computer Soldier Porygon" does work. 'Electric Soldier' wouldn't be the clearest translation, as it's not describing Porygon, but instead the environment he's in, ie an electric brain > computer. Thusly, Computer Soldier, is closer to the description of him being a "soldier" of a computer. Shaojian 01:25, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Isn't Electric Soldier Porygon vastly more common than Computer? "Correctness" doesn't trump common usage. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 01:23, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Either way it would probably be better to just redirect Computer Soldier Porygon to the existing article, if it isn't already, and just not worry about which one is the correct translation. The Hybrid 01:28, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
But isn't wikipedia's goal to provide correct, accurate information, not so much, the popular ones or the "common" types of info? Shaojian 01:26, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
In the case of names, common usage determines what's correct. Wikipedia isn't the place to push uncommon usage over common usage, just as it's not the place to push minority points of view. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 01:32, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
Yes, it is. Is Computer the correct translation? The Hybrid
Den'nou does mean computer yes. It's the traditional Japanese word, formed from two Chinese characters. In chinese, they make out the word "Computer" too. Shaojian 01:33, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
Well, what does everyone think we should do, go with the correct translation, or the popular one? The Hybrid 01:36, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Let me rephrase that, what would be the best thing to do? The Hybrid

I think we should name the article correctly, then create a redirect from ESP, and then copy this discussion on to the talk page of the article. My nephew wants his computer back, I gtg. Sorry. The Hybrid 01:41, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
That makes sense, that way, people have both versions, but the "literal" or non-confusing one, will be the title of the article. I say this, because one slight mistranslation will have people talking about why it was named so-and-so etc. Shaojian 01:43, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

WP:MOS-JP is useless, as it handles using Japanese script and Romanization. (We're not naming the article Dennou Senshi Porygon, I think everyone agrees on that.) WP:TV-NC is likewise useless, as it only handles disambiguation. Given that, it just falls to WP:NC#Use common names of persons and things; common trumps "correct". - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 01:47, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

WP:NC#Use common names of persons and things doesn't necessarily apply when directly translating from another language though. Whichever. As long as disambiguity is explained in the talk page of the article at least. Shaojian
Well, it's going to begin ""Electric Soldier Porygon" (%#^#$, Dennou Senshi Porygon) (also translated as "Computer Soldier Porygon") is an episode blah blah passe rsbyw eream azedb ytheu nusua lamou ntsof blood...." so that's not an issue. Both names should be acknowledged, certainly. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 02:02, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
"Blood"???... Anyway, this seems like a reasonable decision that should satisfy everyone. -SaturnYoshi THE VOICES 04:22, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
Watchmen. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 04:51, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
On second glance I see what that "gibberish" really says. You're very dark, Man in Black. -SaturnYoshi THE VOICES 04:48, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
Hah ahaha, I cans eewh atitm eansno w...--WikiSlasher 08:57, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
From someone who edits Pro wrestling articles, that is a VERY loose guideline. I've ran into articles about wrestlers who have gone by the same ring name for 15 years, but we cannot get the article to share their popular name. Examples: Mark Calaway, this wrestler has gone by the ring name of The Undertaker for 15 years, but we cannot get the article moved. Glen Jacobs has wrestled under the name Kane for 8 years, and he goes by Kane in real life, but we cannot get the article moved. We cannot get them moved because in the interest of an accurate encyclopedia, the articles have the person's real name, even though that is not their most popular name. Accuracy trumps popularity, as annoying as it may be. The way we handle this is through simple redirects; Wikipedia retains its accuracy, and the popularity factor is dealt with. The Hybrid 04:34, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
Well, it's a matter of "popular with whom?" in that case. Those articles are as much, if not more, about the people than the characters they play in many cases (or in the ideal case). This is a dissimilar case; there's no appeal to encyclopedic style (using real names over stage names), just a matter of choosing between the popular name and a name deemed more correct by a passerby. (No offense intended to Shaojian, but his opinion isn't a citable source.) - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 04:51, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, but episode titles are different than names of real people. In this instance, it's a difference in translation. Both of which are somewhat accurate. -SaturnYoshi THE VOICES 04:48, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
I see your point AMIB, and yes, both translations are somewhat accurate. It would probably be best to go with the more accurate one, however. Shaojian may not be citable, but he speaks Japanese and we don't, so he is definatly in a better position to judge than we are. A simple redirect, a good intro, and pasting this conversation onto the talk page (all of which will need to be done either way) would fix any confusion. I guess that this all comes down to accuracy vs. popularity, maybe we should hold a pseudovote like we did before, or am I jumping the gun on that. The Hybrid 05:00, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
I'm not sure why Shaojian's original research outweighs common usage, here. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 05:07, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
I admit, I hadn't thought of it as original research. I do feel that accuracy is more important for the title of an article than the common usage, seeing as a redirect would fix the problems that would cause, but it appears that I am outgunned. Unless Shaojian can come up with something that I can't, I guess we will be doing it your way. Oh well. The Hybrid 05:20, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
It's bound to create confusion if it's changed to "Computer Soldier". -SaturnYoshi THE VOICES 05:15, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
Redirects and this conversation on the talk page..., but I've already given up. P.S. I loved how Yoshi became my cursor on your Myspace ;) The Hybrid
"Computer" is in fact re-directed to "Electric". Do we copy-paste this conversation then? On a side note: I was wondering if any users here had visited my MySpace. The Yoshi cursor is one of my favorite things I discovered. :D -SaturnYoshi THE VOICES 05:50, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
I think that we should paste this conversation on the talk page so that other people who know this acn see why it is called Electric rather than Computer. The Hybrid 22:07, 4 October 2006 (UTC) I went ahead and pasted it, seeing as it has probably been decided anyway. If anything else important comes up, I'll repaste the newer conversation.

OK so am I right in saying that Electric Soldier Porygon is the more common name and Computer Soldier Porygon is the more accurate name? Everyone agrees on this right? --WikiSlasher 08:50, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Yes, as far as I can tell. The Hybrid 22:07, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not a soap box

Talk pages are for discussing the article, not what the article is about. Matty-chan 02:34, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Added A Note

In order to avoid confustion, I hope it may be helpful to add information about getting seizures, if it is okay. If not, then you may feel free to delete it. Thank you. --magiciandude 03:59, 22 June 2006 (UTC)borincano75

moved from Talk:Computer Soldier Porygon on February 11, 2007

Ripley's Believe It or Not

Just ran across the claim that this episode was mentioned in the first Ripley's Believe It or Not book. Considering the fact that Ripley's books were available in the 1920s, I think the claim is a little doubtful... Student Driver 16:27, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Mass hysteria

There are other interpretations. COI issues prevent me from adding it in so I'm throwing it in here [2]. (Emperor 13:59, 6 June 2007 (UTC))

Reverts

There have been a series of reverts (the most recent being [3] and things could devolve to infringing WP:3RR so it might be best to stop and discuss things. The 2 main areas are:

  • Trivia - it has to go. I've tagged it. Use the informaiton elsewhere ot ot goes.
  • Before/after - seems unecessary but I am open to arguements,

So thoughts? (Emperor 00:57, 26 June 2007 (UTC))

British Olympics

The initial advertisement to launch the London olympics logo caused a number of seizures and the logo had to be binned. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.70.161.187 (talk) 23:13, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Is Porygon the right transscription?

As I have watched parts of the episode out of interest, I would say Porygon should be transscribed as Polygon, due to Engrish pronounciation, and therefore transcription. Though the title is mostly given as Electric Soldier Porygon, Polygon should appear there also. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.163.61.62 (talk) 15:50, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Why should it? This refers to the Pokémon ポリゴン, not the computer term.—Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？ (talk • contribs) 22:50, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
On the Japanese article on that pokemon (http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%83%9D%E3%83%AA%E3%82%B4%E3%83%B3_(%E3%83%9D%E3%82%B1%E3%83%A2%E3%83%B3)) it clearly states that it's called ポリゴン　because it has the form of a ポリゴン (this again is linking to the article on polygons). By the way, polygons are a general concept, not just a computer term. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.174.88.229 (talk) 20:17, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
The english version of the games calls the pokémon porygon so it's not a mistranslation Richardson j 11:37, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Incongruence

The article says the eppisode was aired on 1997, but the 5th link says it was broadcasted in 1998. Could someone clear this to me? C'mon! I have a school project in this!--LakituAl (talk) 23:10, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Soudou-news04.jpg

Image:Soudou-news04.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 07:44, 15 January 2008 (UTC)


Bad screenshot

Why do you put the pic of the seizure-inducing screenshot??? I mean, it's common sense, even my eyes shot out a little. Can someone change it? P.S. I'm not a pokemon fan. I got this page off a Simpsons episode because it had a parody of this in the episode. Meepboy (talk) 00:59, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

If you had any sort of "reaction" to that screenshot, see someone regarding hypochondria, because a still image will obviously not induce seizures. How will a bright red background "harm" you in any way?—Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？ (talk • contribs) 01:27, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Eh, true, but i'm just saying due to anyone that has epilepsy or some sort of seizure-inducing state. Meepboy (talk) 01:24, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, once again, bright red doesn't cause seizures. Flashing bright red might, but it's a still.—Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？ (talk • contribs) 03:45, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

It doesn't I have your point, I was just saying i'm not really gonna argue that bright red doesn't cause seizures becuase it doesn't. Meepboy (talk) 12:08, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Porigon or Porygon

I thought the offical translation was "Porigon". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.203.131.117 (talk) 03:09, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Abra-Catastrophe

In the fairly odd parents movie. Crocker causes a black and white flash from lightning that seemed to be even faster than the one in this episode of Pokemon. Can anyone tell me anything about this. It was really fast.--Anfish (talk) 20:59, 21 June 2008 (UT Well,I watched it and,NOTHING happened.XD. The movie you talk about.Alpha`s Arceus:Are You Siding with the Humans?! 23:06, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

The thing is, the color red is mainly the problem in this particular case. It seems flashing red colors can trigger the etectric signals in people's brains that causes epileptic seizures. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.216.240.159 (talk) 06:52, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

Alright, now I don't want to cause a war...

I recently read through Wikipedia:Content disclaimer and noted this line...

Wikipedia may contain images and videos which can trigger epileptic seizures and other medical conditions.

Now, I happen to have this episode (albeit pirated, as a real copy would be half-impossible to find...) and can take a GIF of the said moment in question. I honestly think having such an image would overall improve the quality of the article.

If we can agree on it, I'm sure a collapsing table, defaulted to be closed, would do. ~九尾の氷狐~ (Sumimasen! Dochira samaka?) 16:01, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Do you mean an animated gif? If so, they do not cause seizures so adding one to the article would not be a problem. :) TheLeftorium 16:03, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
I was not aware of that. I'm sure a link to a video file would suffice, at any rate, my entire point was that we need a true-to-form, and unedited clip that retains the original frame-rate and content, so that people could understand exactly why said episode was removed from the air immediately after publication. If we can not come to a consensus, then I suppose an animated gif with the highest frame-rate possible would suffice... ~九尾の氷狐~ (Sumimasen! Dochira samaka?) 16:21, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
Well, the image/video has to be uploaded to Wikipedia if we want to use it in the article. I think an animated gif would be cool, because the frame-rate doesn't have to be very high and people will therefore not have to worry about getting a seizure. —TheLeftorium 16:34, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
Ogg video files can be uploaded to Wikipedia. At any rate, while it is not my attempt to disrupt or cause harm, I think that we should, regardless of risk, present the actual video file, and the users themselves have the choice to not watch it if they are in fear of having a seizure... ~九尾の氷狐~ (Sumimasen! Dochira samaka?) 16:53, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
OK, sure. If you can get an Ogg file that would be good (but don't make it too long because then it might get removed due to copyright issues. —TheLeftorium 18:32, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

The video is up.

The video is on the page now.

It took me a while to get this, ffmpeg2theora wasn't being particularly cooperative...

At any rate, I can cut the video down just to scene 6, if people think it's too long as it stands.

I think that because of the length, it may not count as free use, what do you guys think? ~九尾の氷狐~ (「Sumimasen!」 「Dochira samaka?」) 09:04, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Yeah it is quite long. Cutting it down to just scene six would probably be the best idea. Artichoker[talk] 16:24, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
Done. Since I couldn't keep the scene number watermarks, I changed it to a transparent 'For evaluation purposes only' so that it can not be used for infringing on company's rights, &c, &c. ~九尾の氷狐~ (「Sumimasen!」 「Dochira samaka?」) 20:01, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
Post Script: I forgot to mention, I also lowered the video resolution, it was rather large before. Just as well, it's less of a stress on the server to have to load a small file and keep it small, then load a big file and shrink it down. ~九尾の氷狐~ (「Sumimasen!」 「Dochira samaka?」) 20:03, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Addition to the “Cultural impact” section

Should The Simpsons episode “Thirty Minutes Over Tokyo” (S10E23) from 1999 be included? It’s about the Simpsons visiting Japan and coming across a Japanese TV show called “Battling Seizure Robots” which, who would have guessed, causes them to have seizures. Seems to be a reference to this incident to me. --95.223.152.23 (talk) 06:05, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

I thought exactly the same thought myself and I think the reference should be mentioned. Here's the text from that article: "Battling Seizure Robots, the seizure-inducing television show that the Simpsons watch in their hotel room, is based on an episode of Pokémon, called "Dennō Senshi Porygon", which caused several hundred children to develop epileptic seizures. According to Scully, the staff received 'several angry letters' from people for the scene." --87.251.199.3 (talk) 16:53, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

seizure video up for deletion

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

  • Please see: [[4] for the ongoing deletion discussion of the image involved. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 15:56, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

I didn't realize it was still in the article. Anyway, sent it to deletion discussion. All discussions should be there. [5] Dream Focus 11:08, 4 August 2013 (UTC)

Until a decision has been reached there, I reinstated the video. There is no consensus to remove it. -- cyclopiaspeak! 11:59, 5 August 2013 (UTC)
That discussion is about deletion of the file. The discussion about whether a video should be embedded here is separate, with little-to-no support for its inclusion. Also, WP:DRNC. Alexbrn talk|contribs|COI 12:06, 5 August 2013 (UTC)
Little-to-no support? Are you kidding me? Have you read the talk page above? This has been discussed to death since 2009, and consensus has always been for the video to stay. Sure, consensus can change, but so far there is no indication this consensus has changed. Thanks for your essay link, but removing the video is highly disruptive: you just removed an essential media help for understanding of the article due to a completely theoretical risk (we have no info on people who got seizures because they saw the low-resolution video on WP). -- cyclopiaspeak! 12:11, 5 August 2013 (UTC)
If consensus hadn't changed I'd expect to see voices piling in here and at WT:MEDICINE - but the consensus there is going the other way (and has found that the risk is apparently well-sourced, and not theoretical). Alexbrn talk|contribs|COI 12:16, 5 August 2013 (UTC)
The risk is somewhat sourced for the video as it was sent on TV, not for our low resolution clip. Big difference. And the consensus in the deletion discussion and, most importantly, on this talk page, is the other way. Anyway I'll join the discussion there.-- cyclopiaspeak! 12:18, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

This is ridiculous. The sequence is what caused the controversy in the first place. It makes sense to include it on the article.—Ryulong (琉竜) 15:04, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

I can't upload a video so : can someone slowing down the video and adding a warning at the beginning of the video please ?

(Doing these two things is the best way for the safety of everyone + adding a warning at the start of the video saying WARNING this video can cause epileptic seizures, is the best way to make sure people don't miss it, because people can miss the others warnings which are under the video. Thank you !) Carokdzsf (talk) 21:51, 12 September 2020 (UTC)

Please it's really important, people can be badly injured and can die because of an epileptic seizure. Carokdzsf (talk) 12:19, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

See WP:NDA and WP:CODI - Community consensus is to not use disclaimers in articles as they already have one, linked at the very bottom of the page, and in this article, its text already implies that disclaimer. theinstantmatrix (talk) 22:51, 20 September 2020 (UTC)
Also the caption under the video says In one of the scenes believed to have caused epileptic seizures Pikachu uses "Thunderbolt" on a cyber missile, causing the screen to flash red and blue rapidly. If they skip reading that I don’t see how any other warning would do any better.--76.67.170.18 (talk) 02:09, 21 September 2020 (UTC)

Well, you can easily miss this warning that is made after the video. It's like a warning in the description of a youtube video, not many people read the description. That's why it's important to put at least a warning in the beginning of the video (I did it myself but unfortunatly this change was removed. And I don't see why it's such a big problem to add a warning in the beginning of the video.) Carokdzsf (talk) 22:02, 21 September 2020 (UTC)

Carokdzsf, unlike a YouTube description which is collapsed, the caption of the video is literally there. It's like a YouTube title. Indirectly, it warns those with seizures. If those with seizures still decides to click it, welp, it's not our fault. GeraldWL 07:08, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
99% of the people that come to this page come because they want to read more about the seizures. They already know that it caused seizures. Alexysun (talk) 04:39, 17 December 2020 (UTC)
Ikr. A smart epileptic, unless they have some guts, would never look at the video constantly asking "Cmon where's the seizure?" then gets hospitalized and blame it all on Wikipedia editors not telling them "darling you can die" when they knew they would. GeraldWL 21:53, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

Almost 5 percent is inaccurate

I take issue with the following sentence:

Reaction was swift on the Tokyo Stock Exchange, and Nintendo's shares fell by 400 yen (almost 5%) the following morning to 12,200 yen.

400 of 12600 is a little under 3.2%. It might be almost 5% compared to zero, but by neutral standards it is pretty misleading. The sources that must have come from is not freely available. (the other is focused more on the medical aspects) I'm tempted to just edit it here and now, but since that 5% figure is presented more than once, I would like the opinions of others before I do. -- sarysa (talk) 19:56, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

  • I just went forward with it. I'm assuming the difficult to verify source simply used creative rounding. -- sarysa (talk) 21:59, 3 August 2021 (UTC)
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